MTG Salvation

Quote from hoser2 »

At magic.tcgplayer.com, if you select the decks tab on the toolbar, a dialog comes up with: "Deck Search", "Submit a Deck", "View my Public Decks" and "View my Private Decks" along the bottom. It seems like this could do what you want it to.

Well, as I mentioned in post #3, you need to be a registered member at TCGPlayer in order to use their database tools. However, the registration that is linked to that is for their forum account and, as far as I know they have no forums. It has also been under maintenance for some time now. None of this sounds very positive for allowing new registrations anytime soon. It looks like what I want though. I've tried to contact other sites but two haven't responded and another doesn't accept individual decks.

I'm not sure why something as simple as a large public database that specifically stores mtg decklists and is viewable by the public is getting lost in translation. There's many ways to store information, from cloud to excel to personal storage devices but, that's not what I'm asking for. One example is http://mtgtop8.com/. Usually they either don't respond or they don't accept individual decks.

One example from the chess world is http://Chessgames.com/.

There's a cool thread floating around somewhere on a forum that has people's decklists scribbled on paper from years ago(argh, can't find the link). This is the same situation. The only difference, maybe, is that the decks that I want to submit are from Top8, MTGO standard events. Of course they have sentimental value to me but, are also competitively relevant decks that contributed to the archetypes of the era, etc. Probably most database managers either couldn't or just wouldn't be willing to take the time to add individual decks by hand. I doubt I'll ever play standard again, just want a final resting place for these decks.

In the chess world, it's not uncommon for amateurs(<2200) to have games listed in large public databases. It increases the size of the database and draws some attention to the openings they played, so beneficial to everyone. For magic, many of the older tournaments from MTGO, like dailies and premier events have no official record of their top8 decklists(lost in time, I reckon). At one time, there were databases that would accept individual submissions, wether they could be verified or not. I currently don't know of any. I don't think MTG Salvation maintains a database of games or I would ask them. TCGPlayer does but, they aren't even accepting new registrations and I couldn't find their contact info. Their database contains two of my decks from 2011 but, I also want to add a few decks from before 2008. It's just a matter of wanting a public record of decks that I've played and placed in relevant tournaments but currently are not listed anywhere.

Over the years I've played a few times in competitive standard online tournaments. Some of the decks where worth remembering. I'd like to have a permanent record of those decks kept in a database online. One of the problems is that there's no record of those events. Probably around 2008, anything that happened online was recorded somewhere on the web. So whoever adds decks that are submitted, would have to be willing to accept anything that's submitted, even without some official record of it. I'd prefer a large, well maintained database. Anybody know of a site that does this?

Likely I won't buy this deck but roughly how much is it? Or what are the big money cards besides wastelands? I still want to offer my 2c until I actually playtest it, so here goes:

-Adding a color seems like a big divergence, dropping useful lands for colored mana. Uburg is a common addition but I haven't seen many lists with black cards. Obviously thoughtseize would be very good. White seems to offer a lot. Containment Priest looks powerful. Don't think I've seen that card before. I'd probably play 4x between main/side.

-What about playing Thalia. Seems like 4x Thorns is a bit much, maybe 3x is better but, you could play a combination of both like 3x thorns/2x thalia.

-I like dismember. If you played white, you could just play swords

-I like Jitte better than other equipment. 1-2x main seems right.

-There's some card advantage but few card drawing cards. I'm not big on sea gate and white doesn't offer a lot of card draw but I did see coercive portal played online. Maybe the best option if your playing colorless or white.

-I'm not big on trinisphere for this deck because it's not doing much with a chalice already down and it doesn't stack.

-Acceleration doesn't seem necessary unless you play a color, then getting thalia or priest out turn one would be good.

-Crucible of worlds. Powerful card, probably deserves 2-3x somewhere, never actually used that card so hard to say w/o playtest.

I just got into legacy recently, was looking for alternate type decks, watched a bunch of games online. I wanted to build something with chalice or trinisphere. Anyways I saw a few Eldrazi games and was amazed at the synergy with those cards. If you had black, you could play Nether Void, combo with caverns. So the deck seems really strong, probably tier 1. Chalice and taxing cards look like way to go. interested to see how the deck evolves.

This could apply to any format but, I want to get into legacy so my first concern in building a deck is what type of manabase I should use. Most deck archetypes have the colors predetermined but, you could always add more colors, even if it was more rogue. I'll give two examples, that I may be grappling with. I built a burn deck online with 20 lands. It would be nice to splash a color but since it's supposed to thrive on fewer lands, mana screw could be a problem. Another example is a mono-blue controlish deck with 22-24 lands. Since it's control, more lands will be played and likely a more stable manabase.

Can someone give me a basic summary of what problems I may run into by adding a second color, using the examples or otherwise.

I don't know if R/w or W/r is better but here's a few reasons why I like W/r

1. White probably has better 1cc creatures. The owl really fits the theme of protecting the double-strike creatures and it's evasion is nice.
2. Brave the elements >> Gods willing, when it hits all your creatures at once.
3. The fiendslayer paladin is very good vs black and red and it's just harder to cast with a Rw manabase.

There some benefits to red also and existenz deck looks interesting. I want to test his decklist and try some bestow creatures before I make changes.

After posting this deck in a few different subforums, then being removed from those subforums and archived, this is probably it's last resting place. I felt it important to post it again because, it's a unique archetype. Unless I'm missing some vital component, it will never make it to tier 1 status but, it's quite strong, maybe tier 1.5. Double strike is a very dangerous mechanic. The evasion from madcap and the two 1cc creatures can push thru damage. The burn provides reach and sometimes removal. So without further ado, here's the list.



B/x with Thoughtseize, Lifebane Zombie and removal are very difficult. R/x, with lots of burn, are tough game one but white has some cards that can improve the matchup considerably and can easily be won in games 2 and 3. B/x and R/x creature based decks that are curved out well, are also difficult. However, all other creature based decks, usually G/x, are very winnable. The evasion from the 1cc creatures, madcap and brave the elements can push thru damage late game or the reach from burn can finish the job.

Any suggestions are welcome. It would be nice to see some playtesting done, since its a unique archetype. Specifically, I'd like to know what people think is a good manabase. Maybe I'm missing Mana Confluence, so I can hit all my creature drops. I've been playing without Mutavaults.

I've posted this in a couple other subforums and haven't gotten much feedback. I think it belongs here because after testing and tweaking it for a couple weeks online, it's done fairly well against a variety of decks. There have been other threads with double strike creatures but I don't think there's enough attention focused on a deck built around it. Usually white weenie means heroics. So here's the deck.


The biggest weakness is having creatures that die easily to removal, one reason I play brave the elements and the owl. The matchups vs red and black aren't so good before siding. White gives us a lot of options vs red and that matchup could easily be won in games 2 and 3. Creatures based decks are easier because if we're given time to setup combinations, we can usually get damage thru by evasion, owl, madcap skills and brave the elements and instant damage gives us some reach. You may need to playtest it to get a feel of how it wins. The sideboard isn't finalized and Blind Obedience or Banishing Light could be added. Any feedback or suggestions are welcome.

Has anyone tried using Diabolic Tutor? Not necessarily as a toolbox approach but, you could go that route. It would give us a fifth or sixth Gray Merchant of Asphodel against burn or find the best win condition faster. Any ideas on that?

I played in a PE yesterday(friday) and went 5-2. I'm still tinkering with it because it's my only deck. It wins quite a bit in practice, maybe 60-70% and then drops off a bit in PEs but, I think it's perfectly capable of winning events. I sorta wanted to make top8 and get the deck listed but I had bad tie-breaks so didn't happen. There was about 12, 5-2s and half made top8. I just never see anything like this deck anywhere. The mono-green infect deck is popular online and has made several top4. A mono-black won a PE recently. There's still a few weeks before rotation if I wanted to try again.

I lost 2-1 to a very good delver deck in rd 2. Extra whipflares are good to have. Was in top8 after rd 6 but we had over 64, 66 to be exact so it was 7 rds and I lost 2-0 to rg agro. That player won the tournament and would have been eliminated otherwise, so at least he made the most of the oppurtunity. My game winning% was 5th best at 68%, if that means anything

Here's the most recent build:
The tutor has been good for me, especially when you can fork it with chandra. But chandra is sorta fragile and tends to get killed asap so I went down to 2 and took out the caress. Maybe the caress is good enough to keep in anyway. So many creature based decks with cip that despise is much better now. Seemed like I used to whiff on it but maybe 2 main is a good idea. The pharaoh is sorta quirky, tech as they say, and very useful. Sometimes i'll tutor for it and go on offense. Still as 2 color deck, I do have mana problem which means a mono-black build might be better. Black has sign in blood and the amazing lashwrithe.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

Took this build to a win-a-box tournament and went 3-1-0.

Grats TabooTapeworm. Even with only 4 matches, you touched upon some of the difficulties with the deck.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I overextended into a mutilate.

Now that mono-black is a common deck, everyone seems to be hating on black creaturez with GFTT, dismember and mutilate. Always easier when the crusader has protection from removal.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

Karn started tearing apart my hand but I kept ahead of him playing gambits and discarding extra lands.

Definitely some tough cards that are difficult to beat once they hit the field. Gideon and lashwrithe too. You play a lot of burn for the planeswalkers but, discard(duress) is another option.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I needed double black to play my creatures and Lily and never saw my second black source.

25 land seems a bit high but, you got enough black sources.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

His build had a ton more removal and I never got in for a single point of infect.

Definitely a problem sometimes. I found that ichor rats are good vs heavy control when you need that one poison counter. Necropede might be good too, just more creatures. Doubt they'd use removal on a 1/1, sneak in that one point. Lately I've played inkmoth first turn to get that one point turn 2, even if I had other things I could do.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I kept a hand of heavy spot removal but my removal was useless against his hexproof beaters with Sword of War and Peace.

I once had an invisible stalker with 2 rancors beat me. You do have tributes in the side. I started using 3 lilys and 2 geths verdict works for me.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

I had plenty of early sweepers and dropped a Liliana. By turn 5, I dropped a Curse of Death's hold and his X/1 creatures couldn't stick.

I like the Curse, have 2 in side now.

Quote from TabooTapeworm

he top decked a Consecrated Sphinx and dropped it alongside a spellskite. I had a Sever the bloodline in hand but of course he redirected and drew his combo before I could deal with the sphinx.

sphinx is another bomb. I don't see it a lot but it's a common finisher in strong decks. Helps to pack instant removal so they don't get any cards on your turn. Also GFTT gets around the redirect since spellskite is an artifact.

Maybe your deck works best with your meta but some food for thought.

I thought I read that you've been playing with this deck since last year? Have you seen any other variations like yours? I started with MBI last fall and once I realized it was good, I didn't consider splashing colors. Most of this deck was intact post-rotation, so it must've been even better back then.

It's interesting that there's so many infect variations. This sunday a mono-green infect won the online std event. Lost first round 0-2 then won 9 games in a row. It was pretty simple, used cheap infect creatures and pumped them with rancor, exalted lands and the usual stuff. I've had problems with other infect decks too. And this week, m13 was legal so I missed out on the pre-m13 days. I tried a few game over the weekend and it didn't go so well, so many new cards.

There's always problem decks: counter, counter..gideon, karn and it's over.
1/1 infect creatures + wild defiance and lots of fast pump.
All the CIP from uw decks, snappy, restoration, titans.
So I need to relook at the cards again before I get my deck together. I'm happy you like the discard, I'm sure I'll put duress in somewhere.