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  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Hmm, We need an unfortunate amount of white to get started from there.

    We are at 16 after Bolas's Citadel and need to get to 6WU to cast Dance of the manse on at least TYS and Leyline, (7WU if we want to get the saga early too.)

    There are a few problems right at the start: Our TYS count is 0 right now, we have no floating mana, we only have 2 cards in hand, and the key enchantments arent in the graveyard to be animated.

    I had been using Merfolk Secretkeeper as the cheapest way to get the enchantments in the yard, conveniently we can aethergust TYS and Leyline to the top in response, However with Smothering Tithe as our only source of white I don't see how to get it in the yard without some sort of natrualize effect.

    Stating at 16 we can play Smothering tithe+happily ever after to gain that key intitial W at the cost of 2 life
    From 14 we spend 7 to play Rhythm of the Wild and Spark Double as a Pixie to get to 2WU
    From 7 spend 3 more to On alert the pixie and get to 4WUU
    spend 2 mana and 2 life to play Aethergust from hand on the pixie to send it to the top and replay it, getting to 6WU exactly.
    Spend the last floating life point to Merfolk Secretkeeper mill TYS?

    Looking through, I just noticed a problem Vivien's Invocation lets us kill donated Martyrs which our opponent can use to proliferate onto our saga.

    Fortunately Hatchery Spider might be a suitable replacement?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Hmm, and there's not another (usable) swapping variant in standard right now with switcheroo gone.


    Casting Bolas's citadel directly requires 3 black lands, but fewer Leylines so we might be able to use that.

    As for limited white sources I don't see much, we can get white for planeswalkers with interplanar beacon, or for knights with Tournament grounds.

    Urban Utopia is difficult to recycle but it is not an "enchant land you control" so it will just stay on the land as we untap it.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Yeah I intended to go off turn 3 on the play, emergency powers with no cards left and put Bolas's Citadel into play.

    Scampering scorcher gives the Leafkin druids haste so we can make enough green. Though I realize now that enough Leylines should work just as well.

    Having maraleaf pixie being the dork restricts what lands we can play on turn 1 and 2 to being a land that makes green and a land that makes blue. Also we need a land to make white for Emergency powers and another source for Dance of the Mance. This is probably not a problem with guild-gates and shocks, but is something to consider.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Beyond those there's Fracturing Gust which gains way too much life.
    And Consulate Crackdown which only hits opponent's things, so we'd need for it to come into play on their side somehow?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Maybe instead of Replicate, we use the thaumabroom combo in that spot? With Cerulean drake as both the sacrifice trigger and a way to counter the Clear the Mind and some aura like Kenrith's Transmutation as the repeatable constellation trigger?

    I think the aura needs to remove abilities or it can just be put on the drake and get reshuffled too easily?

    Wait, would this even be an improvement? Rather than X^2 copies of Quasiduplicate making up the layer, we can make something like 3^^X copies? That seems like it would just get outclassed and notation-ally swallowed by the stage combo.

    Yeah, this is looking like another dead end...

    Anyway, new page so let's recap with a decklist and the current state of the main combo,



    Turn 1-3 play the first 10 cards in order. The specific lands only matter for the various layer extensions.

    Then after some secondary setup which is TBD based on whatever layers we use, we have a lot of U and as much G as we could ever need.

    Start by casting Vivien's Invocation to find Maraleaf Pixie and Spark double as the second pixie.
    They have haste thanks to Rhythm of the wild. Tap them for UU. (+2)
    Cast collision to kill the two tapped mana making fliers.
    Cast Devious cover-up on the excess copies of the green spells. (+0)
    Let the first one resolve and shuffle the creatures in.
    Respond with Quasiduplicate on Frilled mystic to counter the two spells. (-2)
    Let another copy resolve to get a Scholar of the ages to return the spells back to hand.

    We are now in the same position we started in but with 2 less U and a bunch of copies of Devious cover-up under a bunch of copies of Quasiduplicate on the stack.

    Repeating this process until we run out of U gives X alternating layers of Quasiduplicate and Devious Cover-Up.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    For specifically tokens? Aether snap? ...and that's about it?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    I was not expecting to use the act of putting +1/+1 counters on Kalemne's Captain as the beneficial effect.

    I was more thinking that destroying some specific artifact/enchantment would be beneficial. Though I can't quite see how that would work with metallurgeon probably being able to kill it anyway... it's not like we get anything from killing something like Needlebug.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Hmm, I'm not great with nonstandard Turing machines. I know some of the tricks for proving Bitwise Cyclic Tag as Turing complete, but not much more than that.

    How many different creature types do we need to simulate a Turing Machine with this method?
    If we can avoid making copies of the setup cards and just rely on pump spells to etc to set the initial conditions, that would dodge some of the problems with giving us too much choice.

    Arcbond seems promising as a constant set of triggers below any death trigger.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    so Terrarion would be perfect, if it were legal... It has been reprinted before.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Yeah, the adventures seem to get close but have some problem or another...

    Sweet oblivion allow us to have one card control both the library->graveyard and graveyard->exile transitions. Shame its a sorcery though...

    Underworld breach is too powerful and the other spells are too generic, either obviously going infinite or obviously not helping. And the escape creatures, though interesting with Bloodbond march,also seem lacking.

    Edit:
    As for the turing machine, giving our opponent options is not a good strategy because if they can let us to loop they will.

    I think being able to make different creature types is needed for Rotlung reanimator, as that is how the TM evaluates different rules. The obviously wont print one that replaces with the same creature type as that would make a 2 card combo with any sacrifice outlet. (Bishop of Wings+Divine Visitation+Woe Strider coming to a FNM near you)

    Either way, I really don't see a way around making a simple looping TM with a pair of rotlung Reanimators that trigger each other, like "when an Ape dies create a 2/2 white bear" and "when a bear dies create a 2/2 green ape" to keep looping. Then also having a third set to "when an Ape dies create a 2/2 red Wall", where the red wall is the HALT instruction.

    Running such a machine would mostly consist of stacking the death triggers so that the wall is never created. and then after an arbitrary amount of time, finally allow the wall to come down and halt the machine, and then resolve down and attack with an arbitrary number of 2/2 walls.



    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Hmm, then what set of operations do we need to make to have a second stage? (Not a higher order stage, just a second one)

    We have:
    1. Spend UU to cast Quasiduplicate from our hand, getting X copies, and trapping it on the stack.
    2. Spend UU to cast Devious cover up from our hand, getting X copies, and trapping it on the stack.
    3. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to increase X.
    4. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to counter anything we want with Frilled mystic and moving it from the stack to the graveyard.
    5. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to return spells to our hand thanks to scholar of the ages.
    6. If Blue mana is unlocked, resolve a Quasiduplicate to gain UU and lock blue mana.
    7. Resolve a Devious cover up to unlock blue mana.

    Which generates roughly X layers where X is the amount of UU we can start with.

    The second stage can either go "below" and generate U, or "above" and not be able to generate U.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Trying again at the framework for a second stage:

    Our current stage combo runs itself on life/blue mana, whichever is cheaper, involves shuffling the library and fetching and outputs a lot of creatures. and all the creature ETBs and associated abilities.

    Notably we don't have lots of haste and that is how it connects to the next layer.
    Haste is not a terrible way for a stage to fuel itself as we can grant haste for R and then tap a now hasty creature to either directly, or more likely, indirectly, make that red again, while also incidentally making blue.

    The two cards that seem to work for that restriction are Firemind vessel and Faeburrow elder.

    Faeburrow elder is easy to make copies of, so haste would need to be restricted to a card like Escape velocity which seems too restrictive to spread to our gyre engineers.

    However Firemind Vessel's copies not only ETB tapped, but are also not even creatures, so just as long as we can't animate them we will be safe there.

    If we can cut Leyline of Anticipation, Gauntlets of light slowly loses mana untapping Firemind Vessel, so that doesn't go infinite there. Combined with Kenrith, returned king for mass haste, looks like it goes infinite...

    If we couldn't keep untapping the vessel I think we would be close, however there aren't any Triclopean sight, instill Energy, Abduction equivalents in Standard.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Also these decks haven't been updated with new cards for a while, nothing is immediately jumping out at me, but escape and adventure seem like helpful and powerful mechanics. Maybe too powerful?

    Also, triumphant surge is tantalizingly close to being the perfect smite the monstrous
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Wow, you've been productive this weekend. I do have a few issues with at least the most recent 17(!?!?) chain.

    How are we remaking the shockland? Fertile footsteps only gets basics.

    And the giant can die as a 0/0, but that looks more ok.

    The saga can only target/untap/steal our opponent's things, how are we giving them the white gate that can't give them nyx lotus or give us animated islands for too cheap?

    With spark double to make copies of the legends, we can also copy walkers, that would seem to be a problem.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Yeah, my plan definitely doesn't work, and I just created a complicated way to go infinite. I think Escape velocity being an unduplicateable aura is at least interesting as a way to limit haste.

    I need to relearn how multiple stages work, but with the current # of layers you are tacking on (seriously I only contributed to like 2-3 of the 10+ stages you have) I'd expect that there's probably some way to get a second stage, even if its not the way I was envisioning it earlier.
    Posted in: Magic General
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