Yeah we'd need a new way for life to trigger computation/Spellweaver volute so probably acorn harvest/flash of defiance (or maybe Flowstone flood?)
Though how are we getting another Granulate? as a sorcery its a bit trickier to recast.
Edit: oh right we have other options Engineered explosives could maybe be easier, though sunburst makes things complicated.
So probably Ratchet bomb + thousand-year elixir would be the easiest.
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Jun 16, 2021 Posted in: Magic General
Jun 12, 2021Forcing us to cast a falter effect could also make attacking safe, but I don't see a way to do that. (though actual falter doesn't work due to Drake familiar flying, Bedlam would though if we could force us to have it.)Posted in: Magic General
Hmm can't we use Rowan Kenrith instead of Alhammarret's Archive in the Urborg syphon-mage deck?
That opens up mirror gallery
Oops no, the other ability to damage a tapped creature (such as a zombie token) is too strong and can start a computation.
Did some more thinking on allowing us to have safe passage-d creatures during computation. and I can't find anything damning with that setup computation wise.
The tricky part is forcing us to get set up that way.
Any lifelinker seems to allow us to avoid casting safe passage at all, Unless we have animated artifacts that need to live like coat of arms.
So, what if we can't get rid of march of the machines? It dodges Granulate so we'd need safe passage to protect coat of arms so we can actually compute.
If march is animated though it can get killed by extra goblin boom kegs, and even putting an arcbond on Coat of Arms allows it to dodge the second wave of 3 damage, and kill the march before it would die.
So march can't be a creature.
So our enchantments can't be animated.
And march can't be easily killed/bounced. (even one bounce is enough to ruin things.)
And we still need to force march to be cast during setup...
this seems like a dead end.
Ok what if we remove lifelink instead? Then we need another way to keep our opponent alive, that does not work for us.
Some wort of warmth effect maybe?
Sunscorch regent+Imps' Taunt seems like it keeps them alive. (we get to keep mana echoes around now)
But Imp's taunt targets, and can make dack's emblem mess with computation, except we don't need Dack if we keep our board between computations.
This seems like it has the potential to work and save a good amount of deck space.
Edit: Hmm possibly Warmth+whim of volrath to leave white creatures open?
Though that does mean the worldfire transition would need to not use basic mountain. maybe restore+some red land as it cant make mana from crucible of the spirit dragon. (cragcrown pathway is probably the best as it gives us 1 green with our land drop for the turn, assuming the rest is the same)
Probably worth making that swap anyway as green is worth more than a serra's sanctum tap.
Jun 11, 2021Oh i see, I misread Manascape Refractor.Posted in: Magic General
Not sure how to fix the haste problem though. as the hellions can just attack and trigger a computation where we have flash.
I can't see how to force a fog variant in the setup, as we can still get started without even casting the only one that does anything powerful: Blessed respite,
Maybe some shenanigans with Glacial Chasm?
Jun 11, 2021We can respond to the Dual nature triggers and give the legend to them and then resolve the DN tokenPosted in: Magic General
Edit: also if we are trying to use Engineered explosives, we need to be careful about the sunburst/march of the machines interaction.
Also I'm not sure how those layers work at the end? Magda, Brazen outlaw doesn't seem to do anything as we can't tap our creatures without haste, and how is Hellion Crucible getting untapped to even make hellions?
Jun 11, 2021Yeah i was still thinking on rotlung reanimator.Posted in: Magic General
I'm not sure about the computation now.
One other problem i see is if there are lifelinkers on both sides, then we don't need safe passage and can definitely mess with computation.
Edit: hmm yeah not sure how to keep the opponent alive and force us to cast safe passage if we can have creatures during computation.
An effect like worship or a soul warden could just keep us alive
Cards like warmth we can't trigger enough. Maybe Shield Mare + buyback spell?
Also there aren't a lot of good sweeper options that kill boom keg + orrery, and not Coat of Arms or all of the necromancers.
But there are some:
Ratchet bomb/Engineered explosives on 4
Languish and other -4/-4 effects
Jun 11, 2021Yeah, if we control any necromancers during computation we can stack their triggers and arcbond as we choose instead of APNAP forcing the ordering on us.Posted in: Magic General
So we can have arcbond resolve last and proceed with computation as normal (mostly), then after looping an arbitrary amount of time, start having arcbond resolve before our necromancer and have that wind down the computation.
this computation is a bit abnormal as our necromancer tokens don't die due to safe passage, but that effectively only increases the baseline of the clock as it overflows. Then in the end it will still unwind eventually.
Edit: oh xathrid necromancer is you control...
Hmm, need to think on that a bit.
Jun 10, 2021Yeah and we need a good amount of mana early so while I think renowned weaponsmith is close it doesn't quite give us enough for the early soul separator activations.Posted in: Magic General
(and definitely doesn't pay for Lingering Souls)
I guess cutting three cards for regrowth to make room for Intangible virtue would be worth it now?
Oh, no that doesnt even work as we cant be able to give them white mana, so we can't use intangible virtue
Jun 10, 2021Void stalker can also put animated enchantments on top, so I'm counting 37 cards we can put on top (FDZ and Giant get killed in the setup)Posted in: Magic General
Oh another problem: March of the machines kills clues.
This means we can't update the number of Harmonic prodigys for Kurkesh between activating the clues, Something like Intangible virtue seems safe to add to fix it? Though that does squeeze out our space for a blue creature...
Jun 10, 2021And to use BSZ as our initial card draw we'd need lotus for UUU, mountain chrome mox for more mana, and then we can BSZ for 2, which is not nearly enough to get started.Posted in: Magic General
that puts us to 10 or 11 layers at the end?
I think this is not currently working as we need a new CMC 2 blue creature now as FDZ needs to die in the setup. (currently storm crow)
Edit: we don't *need* widespread panic anymore, it just lets us draw more cards at once.
Maybe Void stalker is the best option? lets us FDZ more.
Some other options are Daring sleuth now that we actually can flip it to bearer of overwhelming truths
Maybe even the 1 shot erdwal illuminator?
Edit: Daring sleuth doesn't work very well as the timing on flipping it is pretty bad. (and token copies wont flip)
Jun 9, 2021Getting started with just the Zubera seems difficult though, as it is hard to kill.Posted in: Magic General
I guess if we can prove that it ends up in the yard, then it can't be used as a blue creature for chrome mox mana?
If search the premises is our only other card draw then its clear to me that FDZ needs to get sent to the yard, as even getting one clue to sacrifice requires search, opalescence, wrong turn, smuggler, dack, doubling season, and artificial evolution, which is already all 7 of our opening hand, not to mention that we'd need the mana to do all of that.
This opens up the lines we discussed earlier as real possibilities:
lotus, show, omni
march of the machines
should be enough to get started
next zubera draws 6 (make + kill asap while comboing above)
pull from eternity (need to pull giant and zubera)
39 cards left
dead types count:
if we have 2 doubling season in play we can make 4 zubera, then we get 4*14 card draw with the next giant, enough to draw the whole deck and start using drafna's restoration on lotus. This seems safe
We can also go harder and make 8 zubera for 8*(11*2) and bounce the archive when we are close to decking.
We don't get every type fully from FDZ, but we only need ~12 for computation, and we can use zubera giant and drake in there so we still have a bunch of fresh types.
Edit: harmonic prodigy also works on FDZ dies trigger, so we can get an extra layer's worth of bonus card draw.
We can even donate FDZ to the opponent and get consecrated sphinx triggers.
so for ending layers its currently something like:
...white mana chrome mox stage...
Serra's sanctum/crucible of the spirit dragon taps for X white
Amulet of vigor gives us X taps for each etb
Animist's awakening gives us X etbs for each green
resolving a DN trigger for black lotus gives us X green
casting black lotus gives us X DN triggers
drawing lotus lets us cast it
sacrificing a clue draws x cards
Resolving a secure the Premises trigger makes X clues
attacking into Search the Premises gets X triggers
Each main phase give us X attacks via Moraug.
World at war gives us X main phases.
Jun 8, 2021And all of the more general reclaims and similar allow blue sun's zenith to draw itself which will be a problem i think, as we'd no longer need the clues. (we already have every color of mana before card draw so reclaim to get mana from chrome mox is moot.)Posted in: Magic General
I guess cutting BSZ, Hallowed Ground, widespread panic, and Drafna's Restoration for reclaim is an option to save card slots if we can find some smaller layers.
Jun 8, 2021oh doy. thats why we were putting the land directly on top in the first place, good catch.Posted in: Magic General
Glowspore shaman is even better than Hallowed ground, and doesn't need widespread panic.
edit: oops but its a green creature :/
Jun 8, 2021Nice, Search the premises seems to work, we have to be a bit careful the opponent doesn't have mana to suicide with, but because this is in combat they lose anything they got from earlier setup computations, and after the first round of computation we don't need to give them a mana echoes. (probably even for the first round too but this is easier to prove)Posted in: Magic General
Jun 8, 2021The last tamiyo's Journal deck used crucible of the spirit dragon, which can't activate Hallowed ground. Does Serra's sanctum go infinite?Posted in: Magic General
Edit: also looked at other ways of granting creature types, as maybe giving a keg all of the creature types via like volatile claws, keeps it safe and if we bounce the Coat of arms to kill it, we can't do computation.
but we can leave a coat of arms on their side and still half the keg's toughness and kill it.
Jun 8, 2021oh right dack ult is pretty tied to doubling season.Posted in: Magic General
Ordeal of Nylea is even worse than I thought, as their attack triggers will fizzle after a computation and they won't be around to sacrifice, so we don't get a layer from them.
Also there's still the Show and tell + uproot problem
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