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  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Hmm, I'm not great with nonstandard Turing machines. I know some of the tricks for proving Bitwise Cyclic Tag as Turing complete, but not much more than that.

    How many different creature types do we need to simulate a Turing Machine with this method?
    If we can avoid making copies of the setup cards and just rely on pump spells to etc to set the initial conditions, that would dodge some of the problems with giving us too much choice.

    Arcbond seems promising as a constant set of triggers below any death trigger.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    so Terrarion would be perfect, if it were legal... It has been reprinted before.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Yeah, the adventures seem to get close but have some problem or another...

    Sweet oblivion allow us to have one card control both the library->graveyard and graveyard->exile transitions. Shame its a sorcery though...

    Underworld breach is too powerful and the other spells are too generic, either obviously going infinite or obviously not helping. And the escape creatures, though interesting with Bloodbond march,also seem lacking.

    Edit:
    As for the turing machine, giving our opponent options is not a good strategy because if they can let us to loop they will.

    I think being able to make different creature types is needed for Rotlung reanimator, as that is how the TM evaluates different rules. The obviously wont print one that replaces with the same creature type as that would make a 2 card combo with any sacrifice outlet. (Bishop of Wings+Divine Visitation+Woe Strider coming to a FNM near you)

    Either way, I really don't see a way around making a simple looping TM with a pair of rotlung Reanimators that trigger each other, like "when an Ape dies create a 2/2 white bear" and "when a bear dies create a 2/2 green ape" to keep looping. Then also having a third set to "when an Ape dies create a 2/2 red Wall", where the red wall is the HALT instruction.

    Running such a machine would mostly consist of stacking the death triggers so that the wall is never created. and then after an arbitrary amount of time, finally allow the wall to come down and halt the machine, and then resolve down and attack with an arbitrary number of 2/2 walls.



    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Hmm, then what set of operations do we need to make to have a second stage? (Not a higher order stage, just a second one)

    We have:
    1. Spend UU to cast Quasiduplicate from our hand, getting X copies, and trapping it on the stack.
    2. Spend UU to cast Devious cover up from our hand, getting X copies, and trapping it on the stack.
    3. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to increase X.
    4. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to counter anything we want with Frilled mystic and moving it from the stack to the graveyard.
    5. Resolve a Quasiduplicate to return spells to our hand thanks to scholar of the ages.
    6. If Blue mana is unlocked, resolve a Quasiduplicate to gain UU and lock blue mana.
    7. Resolve a Devious cover up to unlock blue mana.

    Which generates roughly X layers where X is the amount of UU we can start with.

    The second stage can either go "below" and generate U, or "above" and not be able to generate U.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Trying again at the framework for a second stage:

    Our current stage combo runs itself on life/blue mana, whichever is cheaper, involves shuffling the library and fetching and outputs a lot of creatures. and all the creature ETBs and associated abilities.

    Notably we don't have lots of haste and that is how it connects to the next layer.
    Haste is not a terrible way for a stage to fuel itself as we can grant haste for R and then tap a now hasty creature to either directly, or more likely, indirectly, make that red again, while also incidentally making blue.

    The two cards that seem to work for that restriction are Firemind vessel and Faeburrow elder.

    Faeburrow elder is easy to make copies of, so haste would need to be restricted to a card like Escape velocity which seems too restrictive to spread to our gyre engineers.

    However Firemind Vessel's copies not only ETB tapped, but are also not even creatures, so just as long as we can't animate them we will be safe there.

    If we can cut Leyline of Anticipation, Gauntlets of light slowly loses mana untapping Firemind Vessel, so that doesn't go infinite there. Combined with Kenrith, returned king for mass haste, looks like it goes infinite...

    If we couldn't keep untapping the vessel I think we would be close, however there aren't any Triclopean sight, instill Energy, Abduction equivalents in Standard.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most turn 1 damage in a deck with no infinite combos
    Also these decks haven't been updated with new cards for a while, nothing is immediately jumping out at me, but escape and adventure seem like helpful and powerful mechanics. Maybe too powerful?

    Also, triumphant surge is tantalizingly close to being the perfect smite the monstrous
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Wow, you've been productive this weekend. I do have a few issues with at least the most recent 17(!?!?) chain.

    How are we remaking the shockland? Fertile footsteps only gets basics.

    And the giant can die as a 0/0, but that looks more ok.

    The saga can only target/untap/steal our opponent's things, how are we giving them the white gate that can't give them nyx lotus or give us animated islands for too cheap?

    With spark double to make copies of the legends, we can also copy walkers, that would seem to be a problem.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Yeah, my plan definitely doesn't work, and I just created a complicated way to go infinite. I think Escape velocity being an unduplicateable aura is at least interesting as a way to limit haste.

    I need to relearn how multiple stages work, but with the current # of layers you are tacking on (seriously I only contributed to like 2-3 of the 10+ stages you have) I'd expect that there's probably some way to get a second stage, even if its not the way I was envisioning it earlier.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Oh right, I missed Aethergust. That does look like it works very neatly.

    Removing Bolas's Citadel seems like it may delay us at least a turn, which starts making the deck look a lot slower.

    turn 1 is leylines + tapped land
    turn 2 is land + mana dork

    Those seem pretty locked in while gilded goose is off the table.

    Turn 3 Emergency powers is by far the best option to refuel with, though by turn 3 we can have an extra card, it doesn't look like we can do much better than using it as our land drop for a bit of colored mana post redraw.

    So we have 1 land and a permanent with cmc 6 or less and 6 cards in hand. It seems like whatever permanent would need to effectively provide a lot of mana, as we do want to cast Dance of the Manse asap.

    I just don't see anything in standard (...so far) that gets us there by turn 3.

    In better news, I think there might still be hope for a second stage.
    Here's the thought: scrap blue mana and run the stage with life with the right number of the come into play tapped lands that gain 1
    Planar cleansing to gain life with overgrowth elementals but that kills our enchantments, notably Leyline of anticipation, so we need to resolve down to a TYS trigger for Dance of the Manse.
    Now we need UW and how can we get it? My initial thought was firemind vessel + Lazav, the multifarious, but that doesn't actually work.
    I spent probably too much time looking at other lines and
    Faeburrow Elder + Escape velocity
    is close but looks like it might go infinite?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Getting rid of bolas's citadel looks very difficult but maybe needed. As we can also use the citadel to sacrifice nonland permanents (like planeswalkers) so some of the earlier combos were moot too.

    Maybe we can use that though? but planeswalkers can really only be the very last thing of the chain so I don't think so.

    Also, how are you managing Nikya in those lines?

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Oh My bad I was mixing up the chains.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    But rhythm of the wild can also give haste to nyx lotus animated with dance of the manse.

    Bond of revival might work? With the pixie and collision, Then we untap godless shrine and proceed as before?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Yeah, hmm, this is ugly but is kinda close to working: Lazav, the multifarious can become an elemental to get haste, and then become a Gyre engineer?

    I think that just goes infinite though ...
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    oh, Claim the Firstborn can't target the lotus. I think that saves it.

    Edit: and we can just give them the used Gyre Engineers, no need for goblin smuggler.

    Oops claim the firstborn untaps the land too, so that doesn't work.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Most Damage Without Going Infinite, GRN-M21 Standard edition.
    Close, but Karn (and dance of the manse) can animate the Nyx lotus to be untapped via silverflame squire.

    I do really like the animated Sacred Foundry improvement. (Though we do need to be careful how many Yaroks we make to not force ourselves to sac it to lotus field.)
    Posted in: Magic General
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