Quote from NZB2323 »ISBpathfinder, what are your thoughts on Ruinous Ultimatum? I know 7 mana is a lot but it destroys all nonland permanents your opponents’s control and I know you’re running Austere Command. It’s probably an easy replace, right?
Edit: Also what are your thoughts on Savai Triome?
Even with the mana cost being similar to Austere Command, I think that the color intensity is off the chart. I also think that even just one more mana when it comes to anything that costs 4 or more is all increasingly difficult for this deck. We run on a low curve so whenever possible I think its better to curve in lower rather than moving curves up.
Savai Triome is a sweet card. I think there are a lot of decks where it makes sense to run a copy of these tri lands with fetches but unfortunately ETB tapped lands are a problem that get compiled a lot more when you are trying to move fast which this deck is. I think in a budget markov list it could be fine but if you are trying to move as fast as possible I don't think we can justify an always tapped fix land.
Quote from Drakon »I think that instead of focusing on bigger spells I'd like to ask if Bastion of Remembrance might find a slot in this build? It's essentially a 3-CMC Zulaport Cutthroat effect that survives boardwipes and convinently provides a 1/1 body to use for other effects like Phyrexian Altar.
I've tried my build recently and must say that I'm very impressed with Cordial Vampire and Blood Artist and co. because their incidental value is huge and these small effects were the reason I've won some of my games. That's why I'm wondering about adding another card like this.
Bastion of Remembrance - I don't hate it. Its still a non vampire card but coming with a free body, being cheap, and accomplishing something we want helps to some degree. Hitting each opponent is also a big deal with aristocrat effects. Some of my issues with aristocrats is that I haven't found quite enough density of sac outlets I like. I would LOVE to find another few Bloodthrone Vampire level sac outlets but its so rare that we get anything new that I would put on that level. I tried doing aristocrats recently and I ended up backing off because I didn't feel like I had the sac outlet density I wanted especially for the mana price I was willing to pay for them.
Quote from DrunkT »I think if you lean your build towards sac outlets and sac payoffs with Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Pawn of Ulamog, Falkenrath Aristocrat and similar stuff, it could be very good.
I think if it was a 2 CMC i would include it in a heartbeat, but i struggle with a non-vampire 3 CMC spell.
^
I did try going down that path a while back and I just found that I couldn't get the consistency out of it that I wanted. I wanted a few more sac outlets and I wanted them to cost a little less as well as a few more payoffs. I think we tend to see some new payoffs but the sac outlets we still struggle with.
Quote from jakethewhale »Thoughts on Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner? She looks like a solid draw option that also happens to give some evasion as a mana sink.
Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner its cute but its a non vampire and I think that I would more consider her a five drop because I really wouldn't want to just cast her at three and not activate that ability in the same turn. I think that the cost is a little steep and you might be paying a lot of mana to blow up your hand before drawing cards so it could easily end up with overdrawing after tapping out. I think its interesting but I think I would pass.
Quote from jakethewhale »I don't think it's fair to write it off just based on that criteria alone. Using that logic, we also couldn't use Tymna, Purphoros, Iroas, or Yawgmoth
Quote from NZB2323 »
The only one of those that I run is Purphoros, who is never a creature in this deck.
Quote from DrunkT »As a budget replacement for Tymna i think it's ok. They are kind of similar, but Tymna it's far superior.
I think that all non vampires are things to look at and question in this list. I think there is a time and place for several though. Obviously I have had some good results with several that are in my own list but I think its well worth questioning each. There is a question of how efficient an effect is when its on a nonvampire for this deck though. Anything where it has continued mana costs to maintain and do something is going to be a lot harder to justify in my book than something that is a fire and forget one time mana cost.
Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »The problem with Subira is once your vampires become too big she's a dead card. Also if you want draw immediately, you need to have 5 mana sitting around which Edgar will likely not.
Not an awful card, but probably one of the last options to consider.
If you have a swarm of vampires and they are bigger than 2 power then I think you probably don't need more draw
Quote from Drain Life »I haven't checked in for some time, so here I am. Over the Covid 19 global crisis and beyond, I have been updating my build and playing through Skype when I can. I always come back to this list to see what is going on and if there is any cool tech to plunder. I am glad that this thread has not been abandoned. As always, this is an inspiration for my budget build.
My best friend has a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck and it is imperative that I have ways of removing and/or blocking his dragons, or I just lose. Scion can ramp into play by the 4th turn and knock me out through the air on turn 5. Based on the turn order, that gives me 4-5 turns to have an answer or scoop. Similarly, my wife plays Inalla which can ramp on turn two, cast Trophy Mage on turn three and combo on turn 4... in addition to other paths to victory. The best I can do is attack Inalla and try to have removal in the form of Path or StP or something for the Scion.
You know how much I respect your build, but against the decks I face, I find it better to have some interaction (instant speed removal) and some more anthems such as Glory of Warfare and combat modifiers like Dolmen Gate or Cover of Darkness which were both older tech you had shared before. In my games, it has been less about the fast initial rush as it has been about being mana efficient and having individually strong attacks that go in as unblocked as possible.
I really feel like the wonderful thing about Edgar Markov is that, depending on your budget and meta, it can be a "Your millage may vary" kind of a deck, and this is a wonderful starting place to see how it fits with your meta. Never stop updating and improving it. I deeply appreciate it.
I think that every meta has different demands that will get you playing a little different with different tech. Dolmen Gate for instance is fantastic if you play against a lot of other go wide decks but it might not be the card you need if your opponents are playing a bunch of sweepers and control.
There is nothing wrong with adjusting your list to fit the meta you play in. Spot removal has its place as well, I just think that it is primarily for must answer things which in my book for this deck are threats that are ending the game if not answered or preventing you from playing. The more of that stuff you see the more answers you need. I have been hating on Swords to Plowshares for a few years now from the standpoint that so many of the must answer threats don't feel like they are creatures anymore. They still exist though and if you see something like an Elesh Norn, Consecrated Sphinx, or Seedborn Muse I am more than happy to have and cast that Swords to Plowshares. I just also feel like I see a lot of combo based things where I would rather have a Disenchant or can't be responded to at all with spot removal (looking at you Thassa's Oracle).
Thanks, I ended up downsizing my collection a little selling off a number of expensive things like going from 4 Mana Crypts to 2 and selling off a lot of duplicate ABU Duels to pay off some debt before my kid was born. I have found it a little harder to have as many active multicolored and or fast decks together after that. Currently my Markov list is not complete but also not put away. I might order a few more Mana Crypts as I do like having another one or two on hand but at that time it was more important to get things payed down. Since then I paid off the house that I sold that I had to take out a loan to cover the sale of, I paid off my car, my student loans, and am within the next few months going to pay off the hospital for my daughter's birth. I am almost debt free so I might be able to pick up some of the things I purged at the time to not be up to my eyeballs in debt lol.
Quote from NZB2323 »Is Malakir Blood-Priest worth it? Vampires can have their own party. He already counts as a cleric.
Warriors:
Rouges:
- Changeling Outcast
- Universal Automaton
- Guul Draz Vampire
- Pulse Tracker
- Quag Vampires
- Shadow Alley Denizen
- Vampire Cutthroat
- Zulaport Cutthroat
Wizards:
I think I might have responded to this question on Nexus already but I think it is not because I would want 3-4+ as the hit before I feel I would be happy with it. I feel like it would be sort of rare to hit for more than one as it stands and one to two is not a good result in my book.
Quote from Chaos Milk Tea »The determining factor is probably comparing the trigger vs just playing another 1 drop or card draw instead. Comparing it to a 1 drop, you could say that in the case of blood-priest you are paying 1 mana for the bodies, and 1 for the drain effect. That means the drain has to on average deal as much damage as simply having two more bodies in play would. There will be times where you have no other party creatures, or you have 2. A fully party is very unlikely. Let us assume then that on average you have a party of 2, which is 6 damage total.
With pump effects, your vampires will on average be 3/3s. This means that two additional bodies are offering at least a potential 6 damage, possibly more if they attack more than once. The damage potential of just playing two 1 drops instead of this card is better, but I could see the argument that blood-priest dealing direct damage is more reliable.
In the end, leaning into synergy with the number of bodies in play is probably the better direction as it is what Edgar is best at. It is much easier to optimize for a wide board than it is having a 3+ party. Blood-Priest is by no means a BAD card, but if you have a refined deck list there probably isn't anything worth cutting for it.
I agree.
Quote from DrunkT »This is interesting just as a 2 drop. I've been favoring a couple of lifelinkers in the deck and this is an upgrade.
Life is a resource, being an aggro deck generally speaking I usually feel like we haven't been fast enough before my own life total is an issue and by then its hard for a little bit of lifegain to be what keeps us in. Use up the life and move faster. If you run out, its usually because it took too long to kill everyone.
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