After testing a bit, I'm leaning towards Bant rather than Sultai. Fatal Push is extremely unreliable in a meta with spell queller/eldrazi displacer. Path is usually just such a better answer in this case.
so black gives the deck a few things imo. You get push/devour flesh (soon to be lili'a triumph), consume the meek, creepy tar pit beats, trophy/decay if you run them, and flashback on teachings.
Push could become path, the creature sac probably could become celestia purge for current meta, Consume could become settle the wreckage, trophy/decay have no catch all replacements because the WB answer causes life and uses black mana (anguished unmaking), tar pit being unblockable can be replaced with lumbering falls because you can use cryptic to tap down your opponents board before you take turns to kill with manlands, teachings has no replacement on the backend aside from blowing your flashback creatures on it.
Settle is a downgrade against creature combo decks, because decks like devoted druid are only going to swing with one rhonas, the indomintable or just shoot face with walking ballista, there is never a window to settle the vizier/druid usually.
Losing the backend of teaching is super rough, because the second cast puts you up a card. merchant scroll never puts you up a card, it's card parity.
Losing the catch all answers in trophy/decay isn't going to be rough for longer tournaments imo. FNM you can tailor to a local meta, but in opens and GPS you need trophy to hit stuff like tron lands.
Now I think you def can run 4 colors if you want. I think the question is aside from maybe replacing USZ with sphinx's revelation in white and expansion//explosion in red - what effect do you want that you don't have access to already?
The token generators are great but you can just run a one of hallowed fountain for bringing it in from the board potentially? I don't think you want many of them too often.
MTG goldfish did a bant version that I believe has the primal command lock in it. I think the deck starts to look much different.
I would go white for a build that also incorporated 1-2 Gifts Ungiven, just for the ability to cheat in Elesh Norn or Iona and force a scoop. There are also situations where Path to Exile is better than Fatal Push (especially if you're not running many fetchlands... however if you're running 4c you should be running more fetches), and the ability to assemble favorable Gifts piles allows you the opportunity to quickly pivot based on what you draw. I would not cut Black, however, for the reasons you mentioned.
Additionally, I don't think the ability of the deck to play a main phase powerful sorcery, while using Reclamation to be able to react during the opponent's turn, should be discounted in favor of only-instant speed play.
So I just stumbled upon Mnemonic Betrayal and I'm wondering how the return to graveyard trigger works with Wilderness Reclamation, because I kind of want to try using this in a control mirror if there's a way to get all the extra mana before the exiled cards return to the grave.
You control all relevant triggers, so you should be able to stack them in the order you want. So you'd stack this, then the Recs. Resolve recs, floating mana, then cast w/e and resolve this.
Not quite.
1. Main-phase cast Mnemonic Betrayal (it's a Sorcery).
2. Proceed to End Step
3. Mnemonic Betrayal and Reclamation trigger.
4. Stack Betrayal First, then Reclamation.
5. Tap all lands to float mana.
6. Reclamation resolves, untaps lands; tap all lands again for mana.
7. Cast any instants or cards with flash in your opponent's graveyard, because this is the end step and you can't cast sorceries or creatures
8. Betrayal resolves.
It doesn't quite work like you think it does; and is a bit more limited in how this deck generates big mana. There's a reason only instants are played in it.
How do we beat Whir(grixis) Prison G2? Game 1 it's nearly impossible to lose, but G2 they have Egos, Jester's Caps, and creatures... It feels unwinnable. And on MODO, we're likely to time out...
Side in more counterspells? As long as you can stop Whir and Ego, there should be no issue. I don't think we lose to a single Ego, Surgical, or Jester Activation; two can be backbreaking though.
This is the deck that I'm finally jumping into modern for. Ordering my set of snaps and cryptics.
Over the past few days I've been mulling over how to fit everything in that I'd like to do within a Wilderness Reclamation shell. I like the current iterations based on Mystical Teachings and instant-speed bullets, but perhaps there's a better way?
Gifts Ungiven springs to mind as an alternative to Mystical Teachings, and can fetch more targets than Teachings. You can do the ever popular Unburial Rites + Iona, Shield of Emeria/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite; and you don't lose tempo to play Gifts after Wilderness Reclamation. Alternatively, Gifts can help you find Reclamation itself, counterspells, and different types of bullets to combat other decks; and you wouldn't really even need to change that much.
What concerns me most is the criticality of certain aspects of the deck with regards to turn order.
Turn 1, your ideal play is Opt, Fatal Push/Path (if you're sultai or bant, respectively)
Turn 2, your ideal play is Growth Spiral, unless you need to buy a turn with Remand; or in worst cases Snap-opt or Snap-Push/Path
Turn 3, you ideally play Reclamation with the acceleration from Spiral and run away with the game. If not, you're probably trying to find Reclamation in some way.
This is where Gifts comes into play. Reclamation allows you to play Gifts the same turn you play Reclamation; which can win you the game on the spot against some decks with Unburial Rites. However, you could also tutor up some gifts piles that help in niche matchups, and allow you to run pieces that aren't just instants. I don't have a concrete decklist set up, but this is an outline of my assessment for the deck so that I can start some discussion about an ideal list:
The Acceleration Package
A turn 3 reclamation allows you to run away with the game. The only reason you should be delaying your Reclamation is if you're still looking for it, or were forced to spend the first two turns not accelerating your mana because you were responding to other things. Deck space is so tight in this shell, and most of the successful decks seem to be running only Growth Spiral. This seems to be fine, but there are other options as well.
Utopia Sprawl - If played without its best friend Arbor Elf, it still allows you to play a Turn 3 Reclamation; and will only prevent you from acting if you play it turn 1. You're still able to Remand/Growth Spiral if you play it on Turn 2. However, it doesn't establish any board presence and can only enchant forests.
Explore - Slower Growth Spiral, but still has the benefit of being a cantrip. I wouldn't run more than 2 because of how risky it is to tap out on turn 2.
Simic Growth Chamber et al - The ravnica bouncelands may be decent in this shell, as Reclamation gets around their tapped drawback, but the sequencing is nightmarish, especially without ways to play multiple lands in a turn. By running some of these lands, you risk slowing your plays and having dead lands, but it also allows you to run less lands in the deck. Ideally you'd want to play these lands off Growth Spiral/Explore/Azusa, Lost but Seeking; but I don't have the information as to whether the payoff of these lands is worth the risk and effort.
Redundancy
Maindeck surgical extraction and targeted discard is a thing we need to be prepared for. Seize+Surgical on Reclamation is crushing, but Surgical on Mystical Teachings is an instant scoop. Gifts Ungiven gives some added redundancy to this plan because we can still be on the gifts plan if the other stuff doesn't work out, and a lot of decks still scoop to Turn 4 Iona/Norn.
Hard Recursion, Softlock, or Win Condition
Some of you older players may remember wonderful jank like Eternal Witness + Crystal Shard; or the original Gifts targets like Eternal Witness + Hana Kami + Ethereal Haze + Soulless Revival (bring back Splice when?). In other words, this deck needs something like Eternal Witness; because Snapcaster only works twice. We need an engine, because this deck is nothing but pure gas. Finding a way to recur Witness lets us do nasty things like loop Plow Unders, or Mindslaver, or hell; expand our color profile to include Restoration Angel + Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker. The point being, I don't feel the win condition of the Teachings iteration of the deck immediately follows from playing Reclamation. It is interactive, which I like, but there is no haymaker. Reclamation needs to set up something stronger than Creeping Tar Pit beatdown or multiple turn durdling.
These are the cards that I'm thinking of trying out in a wilderness reclamation shell
Temporal Tresspass - If you can find a way to fill your graveyard, this can be a cheap source of extra turns.
Mindslaver - Reclamation is perfect for a card like Mindslaver. If you can cast it, you can activate it the same turn with Reclamation on the board, and a single activation is oftentimes all you need. A simple recursion loop with Eternal Witness allows you to lock your opponent out of the game. If you want to get super spicy, how about [card]Bringer of the White Dawn
[/card]?
Mystic Snake, Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel + Ghostly Flicker/Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker - This is a stretch, and probably pulls the deck in several strange directions, but Ghostly Flicker on Mystic Snake seems hilarious to me; plus you have the insta-win combos with Kiki/Resto, and the ability to flicker Snapcasters and Witnesses for general value shenanigans.
Bring to Light - While Reclamation won't actually assist us in casting Bring to Light, if we can expand to five colors, then Reclamation allows us to remain open for instant speed effects after spending a turn casting Bring to Light.
I don't know. I haven't made a list yet, but I'm in love with the concept, and I'm interested to hear what you guys think about possible variants to the Reclamation strategy.
I'm hoping for the Wish Cycle in Modern Horizons, personally. I have a playset of Burning and Cunning Wishes just collecting dust.
I would go white for a build that also incorporated 1-2 Gifts Ungiven, just for the ability to cheat in Elesh Norn or Iona and force a scoop. There are also situations where Path to Exile is better than Fatal Push (especially if you're not running many fetchlands... however if you're running 4c you should be running more fetches), and the ability to assemble favorable Gifts piles allows you the opportunity to quickly pivot based on what you draw. I would not cut Black, however, for the reasons you mentioned.
Additionally, I don't think the ability of the deck to play a main phase powerful sorcery, while using Reclamation to be able to react during the opponent's turn, should be discounted in favor of only-instant speed play.
Not quite.
1. Main-phase cast Mnemonic Betrayal (it's a Sorcery).
2. Proceed to End Step
3. Mnemonic Betrayal and Reclamation trigger.
4. Stack Betrayal First, then Reclamation.
5. Tap all lands to float mana.
6. Reclamation resolves, untaps lands; tap all lands again for mana.
7. Cast any instants or cards with flash in your opponent's graveyard, because this is the end step and you can't cast sorceries or creatures
8. Betrayal resolves.
It doesn't quite work like you think it does; and is a bit more limited in how this deck generates big mana. There's a reason only instants are played in it.
Side in more counterspells? As long as you can stop Whir and Ego, there should be no issue. I don't think we lose to a single Ego, Surgical, or Jester Activation; two can be backbreaking though.
Over the past few days I've been mulling over how to fit everything in that I'd like to do within a Wilderness Reclamation shell. I like the current iterations based on Mystical Teachings and instant-speed bullets, but perhaps there's a better way?
Gifts Ungiven springs to mind as an alternative to Mystical Teachings, and can fetch more targets than Teachings. You can do the ever popular Unburial Rites + Iona, Shield of Emeria/Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite; and you don't lose tempo to play Gifts after Wilderness Reclamation. Alternatively, Gifts can help you find Reclamation itself, counterspells, and different types of bullets to combat other decks; and you wouldn't really even need to change that much.
What concerns me most is the criticality of certain aspects of the deck with regards to turn order.
Turn 1, your ideal play is Opt, Fatal Push/Path (if you're sultai or bant, respectively)
Turn 2, your ideal play is Growth Spiral, unless you need to buy a turn with Remand; or in worst cases Snap-opt or Snap-Push/Path
Turn 3, you ideally play Reclamation with the acceleration from Spiral and run away with the game. If not, you're probably trying to find Reclamation in some way.
This is where Gifts comes into play. Reclamation allows you to play Gifts the same turn you play Reclamation; which can win you the game on the spot against some decks with Unburial Rites. However, you could also tutor up some gifts piles that help in niche matchups, and allow you to run pieces that aren't just instants. I don't have a concrete decklist set up, but this is an outline of my assessment for the deck so that I can start some discussion about an ideal list:
The Acceleration Package
A turn 3 reclamation allows you to run away with the game. The only reason you should be delaying your Reclamation is if you're still looking for it, or were forced to spend the first two turns not accelerating your mana because you were responding to other things. Deck space is so tight in this shell, and most of the successful decks seem to be running only Growth Spiral. This seems to be fine, but there are other options as well.
Utopia Sprawl - If played without its best friend Arbor Elf, it still allows you to play a Turn 3 Reclamation; and will only prevent you from acting if you play it turn 1. You're still able to Remand/Growth Spiral if you play it on Turn 2. However, it doesn't establish any board presence and can only enchant forests.
Explore - Slower Growth Spiral, but still has the benefit of being a cantrip. I wouldn't run more than 2 because of how risky it is to tap out on turn 2.
Simic Growth Chamber et al - The ravnica bouncelands may be decent in this shell, as Reclamation gets around their tapped drawback, but the sequencing is nightmarish, especially without ways to play multiple lands in a turn. By running some of these lands, you risk slowing your plays and having dead lands, but it also allows you to run less lands in the deck. Ideally you'd want to play these lands off Growth Spiral/Explore/Azusa, Lost but Seeking; but I don't have the information as to whether the payoff of these lands is worth the risk and effort.
Redundancy
Maindeck surgical extraction and targeted discard is a thing we need to be prepared for. Seize+Surgical on Reclamation is crushing, but Surgical on Mystical Teachings is an instant scoop. Gifts Ungiven gives some added redundancy to this plan because we can still be on the gifts plan if the other stuff doesn't work out, and a lot of decks still scoop to Turn 4 Iona/Norn.
Hard Recursion, Softlock, or Win Condition
Some of you older players may remember wonderful jank like Eternal Witness + Crystal Shard; or the original Gifts targets like Eternal Witness + Hana Kami + Ethereal Haze + Soulless Revival (bring back Splice when?). In other words, this deck needs something like Eternal Witness; because Snapcaster only works twice. We need an engine, because this deck is nothing but pure gas. Finding a way to recur Witness lets us do nasty things like loop Plow Unders, or Mindslaver, or hell; expand our color profile to include Restoration Angel + Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker. The point being, I don't feel the win condition of the Teachings iteration of the deck immediately follows from playing Reclamation. It is interactive, which I like, but there is no haymaker. Reclamation needs to set up something stronger than Creeping Tar Pit beatdown or multiple turn durdling.
These are the cards that I'm thinking of trying out in a wilderness reclamation shell
Temporal Tresspass - If you can find a way to fill your graveyard, this can be a cheap source of extra turns.
Mindslaver - Reclamation is perfect for a card like Mindslaver. If you can cast it, you can activate it the same turn with Reclamation on the board, and a single activation is oftentimes all you need. A simple recursion loop with Eternal Witness allows you to lock your opponent out of the game. If you want to get super spicy, how about [card]Bringer of the White Dawn
[/card]?
Vessel of Nascency or Grapple with the Past - Helps you dig and fills the graveyard. Pulse of Murasa is probably better than Grapple.
Mystic Snake, Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel + Ghostly Flicker/Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker - This is a stretch, and probably pulls the deck in several strange directions, but Ghostly Flicker on Mystic Snake seems hilarious to me; plus you have the insta-win combos with Kiki/Resto, and the ability to flicker Snapcasters and Witnesses for general value shenanigans.
Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry - Thopter Sword works better with Wilderness Reclamation than perhaps any other card.
Bring to Light - While Reclamation won't actually assist us in casting Bring to Light, if we can expand to five colors, then Reclamation allows us to remain open for instant speed effects after spending a turn casting Bring to Light.
I don't know. I haven't made a list yet, but I'm in love with the concept, and I'm interested to hear what you guys think about possible variants to the Reclamation strategy.