Yeah, I'm done waiting for you to decide it's time to answer my questions. You're purposefully avoiding this discussion for some reason, and I don't think you're town for it.
But Killjoy's similar behavior looks even worse, especially the way he tried to hide his vote in the middle of a post.
"Tried to hide it in the middle of my post"? Seriously? You're saying that I thought people might notice it less if it was the second of three points I made in that post? Especially considering I had 3 one-sentence responses that post?
He votes for TK based on not agreeing with how TK interpreted a post. But that is just it. TK's post was obviously a 'this is how it looks from my perspective' post. Voting someone for something like that doesn't make sense.
So, the fact that he literally had to ignore the entire rest of the post he voted him for equates to his perspective? His perspective is that Niv is trying not to push buttons. That entire post was Niv doing that. How is it a matter of perspective when to reach said perspective you have to gauge out your eyes with a rusty nail before you can logically reach it?
Either A)TK is correctly interpreting the post, which doesn't make TK scum, or B)he is incorrectly interpreting it, which..still doesn't make him scum. You can't really argue here that he is trying to misrepresent Niv based on one single post that literally everyone will read. It just looks like Killjoy liked this wagon enough to go along with it, and tried to justify that afterward.
You are massively oversimplifying things. You're also discounting the idea that any actual thought process should be used in TK's interpretation of Niv's post... but when I interpret TK's post, my thought process should have came to your conclusions?
Why are you giving TK a pass for what you consider a bad interpretation on a post, but are so quick to jump on me for a similar transgression?
A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
He's made several posts since I made these, and I even told him he missed them. He's ignoring them.
I think that they're both scum, if they're on the same scum team that is just a happy coincidence(meaning that they probably are, but, I'm not trying to say that there is a relationship between them. I just happen to have scum reads on them both. Killjoy was first, but then antny came along..but Killjoy hasn't gotten less scummy in the meantime. If anything, he is more so. But I'd rather wait until Antny's alignment is 100% resolved to focus on that now).
I haven't done anything to appear less scummy... if anything, I'm more scummy? Based on no evidence? Seriously?
Also, I'm curious... can you restate your view of Antny please? Why is he scum?
Killjoy, I will say again what I always say when someone asks the same thing I see from at least one person every 2-3 games.
I will respond to anything someone wishes to push my way, and when it's crap I will say its crap and give my reason why. Otherwise ta empty words. People want to attack me win bull***** I won't let hem get away with it. I am happy in the spotlight, but you like Rhand seem to want to get out of the argument as soon as you start it.
The reason for the discredit? And yes I'm aware it's a discredit. Because someone I know has played with me before, someone I know can build a case and be a force for good in a town team, resorting to cop outs and crap? I would have preferred you just to say you have yet to analyse me but a guy call is saying scum, at least then I would have been anticipating something more. And then if you chose to include language tells in a more rounded attack you could simply counter my dismissal of them with the point that it's a small part of the bigger picture.
And as I pointed out earlier to Rhand. It frustrates me when people don't see the obvious in my play. Yes I know my own alignment but I'm pretty sure I could tell whether generic was town or scum if I wasn't me... Wow, I just read that back and laughed. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.
It angers me that people who don't know me that well have a better grasp of me than those I have had several journeys with in mafia games.
Now what I do appreciate is at least you clarified your position, and I may have over read into the initial comment. But your Rhand point is a cop out, it's just the way I feel.
That's the thing though, I wasn't necessarily trying to start an argument. I posted a thought. I didn't do it so that we can do a huge back and forth on it... just putting my thoughts out there.
And I'm sorry if you feel miffed because we don't know you as well as we should, but keep in mind... most people's online personas aren't the same as their real personalities. I'm a LOT less talkative in real life, for example.
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
That's actually the third time that question's been asked. First was Hunger in 63, then me in that post, now Wheat.
Given that Wheat has asked that question now, what does that tell you about him?
A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
Translation: "please do the work for me cyan because I cannot make a specific read on generic by myself and need someone to give me something to work with."
That's not even close to what I meant. No, Cyan is making an assertion about you. I want him to explain it. I can't read his mind.
Cyan: What would he have to do to have his obnoxiousness be scummy?
Generalised scum tells. Essentially you are claiming a scum read on me based on language tells, some of the worst reasonings you could possibly use. And that's because you have seen the cases that have been brought up fall apart easily because they were built on bull*****. So you had a little go at making something up that is non specific in the hope it might work better, but you are basically hiding behind that rather than analysing my posts.
TK is getting scum read for focusing on a specific post and missing of all the rest that has happened. You are basing a scum read on me on the use of the word neutral and that is pointed out I'm town. Which are I believ in one post. So if TK is scum for that you by extension must be too... Except reasoning like that is crap. You are suspicious (wouldn't call it a scum read at this stage) because you are trying to sell a generic (no pun intended) case.
And your cop out on Rhand was even more pathetic.
You are doing scummy things. So, they get a lean scum flag wave from me. It's part of my process. It's also a gut read. I'll analyze your posts when I have better/more information confirmed that I can use to determine your alignment more soundly.
And you're oversimplifying everything I said in that post. My scum read on TK is because he's voting Niv for a bad reason. My lean scum read on you is based not on language tells, but on your consistent need to assert that you're town somehow (IIRC you've done it at least twice now). That plus the neutral mention point to a possible mindset: a mindset that is less likely to be town than others.
Why do you feel the need to discredit my case if, in your view, it's a crap case? Why do you care that I'm leaning scum on you at this stage?
And it's not a cop out on Rhand. I have a null read on him. Does everyone have to have an alignment picked out for every player?
A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
]I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
It's not the accuracy of his arguments that caused you to vote him though. It was his motive, which you assigned as "trying not to push buttons", which is obviously not true if you read the rest of his post, which you say you did.
I think I'll officially join the Shockwave Is Probably Town club. They have those little gift baskets AND free food!
I feel like I also wanna join the Generic is Leaning Scum to Me club as well. I mean.. no gift baskets, but theres hookers there.
Reasons: He's laying on the "I'm Town guys!" really hard. In 104 he explicitly says it, then he asks if the scum have Daychat to let us know he totally doesn't know. Also. first neutral mention of the game, which is a minor scumtell.
My feelings on Rhand due to Rhand v. Generic is still null.
Hmm...I would probably have interpreted "trying to put off my lynch" as defeatist...but I can see what you're saying, and your response makes me feel good about you.
Probably would have interpretted? You don't interpret his play as such?
IIRC, there was a bit of this in Apocalypse, and I'm pretty sure I've read other games where open coaching occurred, but without searching it out, I couldn't point you to it.
I just can't help but think that those types of interactions are unlikely because, should the coach get lynched, it makes their other scumbuddy look bad. Making that happen intentionally doesn't make sense.
More than I'd really prefer, recently, but the recent ones are all in-progress games. Two GIP, plus...two or three other games, I believe.
Then why were you so quick to dismiss your fry questions based on someone elses assertion that Gen is cautious? Do you, personally, have that experience with him?
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
Why are you wary of that? What does it say about a person's alignment and why?
But Killjoy's similar behavior looks even worse, especially the way he tried to hide his vote in the middle of a post.
"Tried to hide it in the middle of my post"? Seriously? You're saying that I thought people might notice it less if it was the second of three points I made in that post? Especially considering I had 3 one-sentence responses that post?
He votes for TK based on not agreeing with how TK interpreted a post. But that is just it. TK's post was obviously a 'this is how it looks from my perspective' post. Voting someone for something like that doesn't make sense.
So, the fact that he literally had to ignore the entire rest of the post he voted him for equates to his perspective? His perspective is that Niv is trying not to push buttons. That entire post was Niv doing that. How is it a matter of perspective when to reach said perspective you have to gauge out your eyes with a rusty nail before you can logically reach it?
Either A)TK is correctly interpreting the post, which doesn't make TK scum, or B)he is incorrectly interpreting it, which..still doesn't make him scum. You can't really argue here that he is trying to misrepresent Niv based on one single post that literally everyone will read. It just looks like Killjoy liked this wagon enough to go along with it, and tried to justify that afterward.
You are massively oversimplifying things. You're also discounting the idea that any actual thought process should be used in TK's interpretation of Niv's post... but when I interpret TK's post, my thought process should have came to your conclusions?
Why are you giving TK a pass for what you consider a bad interpretation on a post, but are so quick to jump on me for a similar transgression?
I'll answer back to Cantrip point for point in the morning, but for now... Cantrip and Generic both seem to be asking the pointless question of whether the scum have daychat. Please stop this and get back to scumhunting. It just makes more to read.
Plainspotter 3WW
Creature- Dragon
Flying, First Strike, Lifelink
3/3
iww: gravestorm
I need to reread Niv, but a cursory glance makes me wanna reconsider my stance on TK. Niv-TK doesn't seem scum-scum right now.
And maybe if I wish hard enough upon a shooting star... Cyan will answer my questions today.
Hawk: What happens if you vote without hammering?
Unvote, Vote Cyan
For Reference:
And now let's disect his latest musing:I haven't done anything to appear less scummy... if anything, I'm more scummy? Based on no evidence? Seriously?
Also, I'm curious... can you restate your view of Antny please? Why is he scum?
I really don't like the antny wagon. It seems to have sprung for very little.
I also wanna lynch Cyan. He's purposefully ignoring my questions and seems to just be passively letting others do the work.
That's the thing though, I wasn't necessarily trying to start an argument. I posted a thought. I didn't do it so that we can do a huge back and forth on it... just putting my thoughts out there.
And I'm sorry if you feel miffed because we don't know you as well as we should, but keep in mind... most people's online personas aren't the same as their real personalities. I'm a LOT less talkative in real life, for example.
But yeah, probably expect more later.
That's actually the third time that question's been asked. First was Hunger in 63, then me in that post, now Wheat.
Given that Wheat has asked that question now, what does that tell you about him?
That's not even close to what I meant. No, Cyan is making an assertion about you. I want him to explain it. I can't read his mind.
And you're oversimplifying everything I said in that post. My scum read on TK is because he's voting Niv for a bad reason. My lean scum read on you is based not on language tells, but on your consistent need to assert that you're town somehow (IIRC you've done it at least twice now). That plus the neutral mention point to a possible mindset: a mindset that is less likely to be town than others.
Why do you feel the need to discredit my case if, in your view, it's a crap case? Why do you care that I'm leaning scum on you at this stage?
And it's not a cop out on Rhand. I have a null read on him. Does everyone have to have an alignment picked out for every player?
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
It's not the accuracy of his arguments that caused you to vote him though. It was his motive, which you assigned as "trying not to push buttons", which is obviously not true if you read the rest of his post, which you say you did.
What do you think of Cyan?
Cyan: What would he have to do to have his obnoxiousness be scummy?
I feel like I also wanna join the Generic is Leaning Scum to Me club as well. I mean.. no gift baskets, but theres hookers there.
Reasons: He's laying on the "I'm Town guys!" really hard. In 104 he explicitly says it, then he asks if the scum have Daychat to let us know he totally doesn't know. Also. first neutral mention of the game, which is a minor scumtell.
My feelings on Rhand due to Rhand v. Generic is still null.
Probably would have interpretted? You don't interpret his play as such?
I just can't help but think that those types of interactions are unlikely because, should the coach get lynched, it makes their other scumbuddy look bad. Making that happen intentionally doesn't make sense.
Then why were you so quick to dismiss your fry questions based on someone elses assertion that Gen is cautious? Do you, personally, have that experience with him?
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
Delinquency???
Why are you wary of that? What does it say about a person's alignment and why?
"Tried to hide it in the middle of my post"? Seriously? You're saying that I thought people might notice it less if it was the second of three points I made in that post? Especially considering I had 3 one-sentence responses that post?
So, the fact that he literally had to ignore the entire rest of the post he voted him for equates to his perspective? His perspective is that Niv is trying not to push buttons. That entire post was Niv doing that. How is it a matter of perspective when to reach said perspective you have to gauge out your eyes with a rusty nail before you can logically reach it?
You are massively oversimplifying things. You're also discounting the idea that any actual thought process should be used in TK's interpretation of Niv's post... but when I interpret TK's post, my thought process should have came to your conclusions?
Why are you giving TK a pass for what you consider a bad interpretation on a post, but are so quick to jump on me for a similar transgression?
This is also a lesson in why we only do l-2 lynches.
I told you the doll was scum too. Lol.