I started my cube full powered and went on by trimming down on cards that hit or miss cards. Like Moxen or Lotus for example. Having it turn 1 is game in most cases, having them late game is bad.
I like it, when people are forced to play answers, like enchantment removal for example, so the games get more interactive, but if you get punished by a card just because you can't find your answer within two or three turns, that gives me a bad feeling.
I wonder why so many people are just talking about power when it comes to the construction of their cubes. Isn't the best thing about cube that you can observe what is fun for you and players around you and adjust you cube in that direction?
That's why I pass on this card. There is no play involved. It is going to be a game winning card, or it will be too slow. No middle ground.
I made a cycle of 30 cards for my cube. I have some play experience wit them now and I want to share some of them. They all have in common, that their manacost consists one complete color and a hybrid color. So they all are tri-colored, but easier to cast than two-colored cards. I play a lot of 1v1 cube, and that makes them way more flexible. This way, I can include more interesting multicolor effects while keeping the cards easier to draft:
Tendrils of Decay1(G/W)B Sorcery
Destroy target nonland permanent.
Veil of Mold1(W/B)G Sorcery
Destroy target noncreature permanent.
Those where the first two cards that came into my mind.
The Elder RelicG(U/B) Legendary Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, Surveil 1.
Delirium - You may play land cards from your graveyard as long as there are four or more card types amoung cards in your graveyard.
Ghost Armor(G/U)B Artifact - Equipment
Whenever Ghostarmor enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature card from your graveyard face down. If you do, create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token an attach Ghost Armor to it. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card into your hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Ghost Armor is not attached to a creature, sacrifice it.
Dredge 3
I love this card, but sadly, I think it is bad. I think I need to push it somehow.
Underword RevelationsXUU(B/G) Instant
This turn, creature cards in your graveyard have Dredge 3.
Draw X cards.
Sorin's Command2(B/R)W Sorcery
Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn. Then each creature deals damage to itself equal to its power.
Way of Astral Mind1U(R/W) Instant
Reveal a noncreature, nonland card you own from outside the game and exile it face down. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card into your hand.
Splice onto instant or sorcery 2U(R/W)
The following cards are not part of the cycle, I want to share them anyways:
Splicer Apprentice1W Creature - Human Artificer
When Splicer Apprentice enters the battlefield, create a 3/3 colorless Golem artifact creature token.
Golems you control get -2/-2.
1/1
Tasim, Spectral Presence2G Legendary Creature - Wolf Spirit
When you cast Tasim, you may search your library for a Forest card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
As long as Tasim is in your library, it counts as a Forest land card in addition to its other types.
2/2
Just saw this thread and I have to say: I can't wait to try it. I play a lot of 1v1 cube and have a custom made method by myself, but from time to time it is nice to try something new.
But: How do you read the draft? You wrote about this point on different occations. As far as I can see, you are not able to read anything, because it should be completely random witch cards you get. You are not effecting the other players draft and you are not effected by anything. So how should there be an open line to an aggro deck or anything like that? You could draft completely alone and there would be no difference. Your statements, in combination with you points that you cut the stacks during the draft give me the impression that you do not have a completely randomized cube when you start.
Why do you want to do a legendary vanilla creature. Is it out of curiosity? Or just to show that you can?
I respect both approaches as a thought experiment, but I think you have to ask yourself the question what purpose a card will fulfill, and even IF you balance the card right, the excitement will wear off and then the question will be if the card makes sense in your set.
It's one of the lessons Marc Rosewater once stated in his brilliant presentation about game design: Never do something just because you want to show that you can.
So, if your set has a mechanic like Ferocious, it might be nice and feels great to have a creature that fulfills this special requirement for a cheap price, but if it's just a beater, I doubt it will be enough.
I saw a box at a LGS so display Basic Lands for Limited events. Has anyone knowledge of a box that is portable and displays basic lands in a nice way?
How do you guys handle your token cards? With all those different tokens that appear in every new set (Angle Warrior?) I find it hard to find the right ones fast. Do you sleeve them in colored sleeves? Or just sort them?
I think you will never be able to make all cards equally powerful, and I think you do not have to.
Counterspell is more powerful than Mana Leak, both are playable though. And some cards are situationally good. Sure, some cards will fall of, but I think you will recognize that by your experience and by just playing with the cube and adjusting it from time to time. If you are open to modify the cards later on, you will be able to balance your cube over time. That is how WotC is balancing their cards. Just by playing with them.
Yeah, that is probably true. I will do that. I wanted the Meloku ability in my cube, but I did not like Meloku.
At two mana, the ability will still serve the purpose of bouncing back Triomes or MDFC in the lategame for value.
I was pondering about how I could give the ability to a creature that is cheaper than Meloku and came up with three colors, but not with making the ability more expansive.
Thanks a lot.
Mnami needs a nerve, I think there you are right. I play with ABU Duals, Shockduals and Triomes (plus custom made Shard-Triomes).
How about the Giant, is it strong enough as a 4/4?
With the new DFMC cards and the Triomes, I wanted to play with some custom cards in my Cube. I am not sure about the balancing:
Firo, Waker of WavesRUG Legendary Creature — Elemental
Haste
You may play lands from your graveyard. : Discard a card, then draw a card.
3/3
Maybe it needs to cost 1RUG or the loot needs to cost , or the discard needs to be a cost?
Rikyu, High Priest of Jun1UGW Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
You may play an additional land each turn.
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, gain 1 life. , Return a land you control to its owners hand: Create a 1/1 blue Illusion creature token with flying
1/5
Icehide Giant2WUB Artifact Creature — Giant Golem
When Icehide Giant enters the battlefield, choose one -
-Gain 5 life.
-Draw two cards.
-Target player discards two cards.
Entwine
Evoke WUB
4/4
Maybe the giant needs to be 5/5?
Mnami, Nacatl WarchiefGG Legendary Creature — Cat Warrior
Trample
If you control a mountain, Mnami gets +1/+1 and has haste.
If you conbtrol a plains, Mnami gets +1/+1 and has lifelink.
2/2
I really would like the Enemy Mirage Lands and the rest of the Triome lands to better support 3-4 colors + landfall in a more fair way.
Hmm, I really get why the Triome lands make people wishing for Mirage Fetchlands, but I think that the interaction is quite poorly, unfortunately. I mean, one of the arguments for the new Modal lands often is the fact that the come untapped. Having a land, that comes to play tapped and then brings a land tapped is so annoying. Espacially in powered cubes, I cannot imagine that that it's a good idea to play that interaction.
What we need is a new, simple Fetchland Cycle that comes into play untapped but brings a land into play tapped.
I actually play with some Proxies and I created that cycle, completed the Triomes and it is amazing!
@wtwlf: Did you consider cards that bounce back lands to your hand that you did not play before? With the Triomes and the Modal cards, some of those cards could be worth it now, right? It made me bring back Meloku.
Thaks for the explanations. Still, I do not understand it. A card like Prismatic Vista just adds to the fun imho. And cards like Skullclamp are way too good. So why draw a line here. If you are on a budget, there are lots and lots of interesting and fun rares you can get for under a dollar.
But sure, if you own several cubes, it could be an interesting restriction.
I have a powered Cube for some month now and just built a lower powered cube. It is aimed to play 1vs1, because that is what I usually do. I got frustrated by the randomness of the P9 and other autopicks. But I wonder why one would limit themselves to Commons and Uncommons.
I mean, it is no constructed format, and a lot of commons and uncommons are as strong as rares. If you want to avoid bombs, you can allways do that.
Can someone give me an explanation of the fascination?
I started my cube by building rantipole's 450 powered cube. Its been a great expiriance but now I started to customize it.
rantipole plays 6/10 signets and I like that a lot. Personally I would like to play more colored two mana rocks, and I am going to do that with the new talismans, but I like the thought process behind it:
RW and RG surely want the fixing, but since they are more agressive, they do not want to take the second turn off to play a Signet.
GB and GW are eather similar agressive or they have a lot of fixing though Elves and stuff.
So rantipole plays an additional land in those slots.
I thought about pushing this even further:
Since RW Aggro needs untapped fixing lands the most of all color combinations, why shouldn't I give them more than the other color pairs?
I could see myself cutting an Ajani or a Lightning Helix for a Sunbaked Canyon, since it is a card that makes RW Aggro more accessible.
I compare it to the differance in the creature count. Some colors need more creatures than others, since Aggro needs more than control. But I think the same is true for fixing. If I play GU ramp, it could be totally fine to play just two fixing lands or if I play UW control I could get away with one dual, a signet and a Coalition Relic, but I would be in trouble if I had to play RW Beatdown with just a Plateau.
I think gold cards are meant to drive you into colors or directions, but I think fixing can do the same, so just counting all fixing lands as gold cards and then give some colors more or less lands is an aproach I am looking forward to try.
With the new talismans, I am going to try out playing the following split:
UW Signet
UB Signet
UR Signet
BR Signet
UW Talisman
UB Talisman
UR Talisman
BR Talisman
BW Talisman
UG Talisman
Has anyone of you experimented with an uneven distribution of fixing lands?
1) Hybrid is good enough to replace a gold card.
2) Hybrids to mono section. If the card would make sense and would be good enough in the mono section without hybrid mana.
3) Have 2 hybrids and add them to the guild section and then have 1 less card in both mono colored sections.
Mixing these I haven't had too much trouble adding hybrid cards and being happy with the balance.
I will be adding Nature's Chant, probably replacing Forsake the Worldly with it and adding it to the white section. Let's see how things shake up with the rest of the set.
I like your third point. The point of limiting the amount of gold cards is, that they fit in lesser decks. Hybrid cards are easier to cast and fit in more decks (especially those with just one colored symbol). I would just add a Hybrid section to my cube, but some combinations just dont have powerfull ones. Maybe counting two Hybrid cards as one Gold card could be right, I don't know.
I saw that a lot of people value estatics quite high and want a color balance in that regard, but playing a Noble Hierarch as a Bant card or Sphinx of the Steel Wind as an Esper card makes no real sense to me. (Hierarch is good in all Gx decks and Spinx is a Tinker/Welder target).
I startet my cube by copying rantipoles cube, but I guess I am reevaluating those facts soon and will adjust my cube. Nature's Chant will find a home in my cube.
I like it, when people are forced to play answers, like enchantment removal for example, so the games get more interactive, but if you get punished by a card just because you can't find your answer within two or three turns, that gives me a bad feeling.
I wonder why so many people are just talking about power when it comes to the construction of their cubes. Isn't the best thing about cube that you can observe what is fun for you and players around you and adjust you cube in that direction?
That's why I pass on this card. There is no play involved. It is going to be a game winning card, or it will be too slow. No middle ground.
Tendrils of Decay 1(G/W)B
Sorcery
Destroy target nonland permanent.
Veil of Mold 1(W/B)G
Sorcery
Destroy target noncreature permanent.
Those where the first two cards that came into my mind.
The Elder Relic G(U/B)
Legendary Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, Surveil 1.
Delirium - You may play land cards from your graveyard as long as there are four or more card types amoung cards in your graveyard.
Ghost Armor (G/U)B
Artifact - Equipment
Whenever Ghostarmor enters the battlefield, you may exile a creature card from your graveyard face down. If you do, create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token an attach Ghost Armor to it. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card into your hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Ghost Armor is not attached to a creature, sacrifice it.
Dredge 3
I love this card, but sadly, I think it is bad. I think I need to push it somehow.
Underword Revelations XUU(B/G)
Instant
This turn, creature cards in your graveyard have Dredge 3.
Draw X cards.
Sorin's Command 2(B/R)W
Sorcery
Target creature gains lifelink until end of turn. Then each creature deals damage to itself equal to its power.
Way of Astral Mind 1U(R/W)
Instant
Reveal a noncreature, nonland card you own from outside the game and exile it face down. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card into your hand.
Splice onto instant or sorcery 2U(R/W)
The following cards are not part of the cycle, I want to share them anyways:
Splicer Apprentice 1W
Creature - Human Artificer
When Splicer Apprentice enters the battlefield, create a 3/3 colorless Golem artifact creature token.
Golems you control get -2/-2.
1/1
Tasim, Spectral Presence 2G
Legendary Creature - Wolf Spirit
When you cast Tasim, you may search your library for a Forest card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
As long as Tasim is in your library, it counts as a Forest land card in addition to its other types.
2/2
But: How do you read the draft? You wrote about this point on different occations. As far as I can see, you are not able to read anything, because it should be completely random witch cards you get. You are not effecting the other players draft and you are not effected by anything. So how should there be an open line to an aggro deck or anything like that? You could draft completely alone and there would be no difference. Your statements, in combination with you points that you cut the stacks during the draft give me the impression that you do not have a completely randomized cube when you start.
Why do you want to do a legendary vanilla creature. Is it out of curiosity? Or just to show that you can?
I respect both approaches as a thought experiment, but I think you have to ask yourself the question what purpose a card will fulfill, and even IF you balance the card right, the excitement will wear off and then the question will be if the card makes sense in your set.
It's one of the lessons Marc Rosewater once stated in his brilliant presentation about game design: Never do something just because you want to show that you can.
So, if your set has a mechanic like Ferocious, it might be nice and feels great to have a creature that fulfills this special requirement for a cheap price, but if it's just a beater, I doubt it will be enough.
How do you guys handle your token cards? With all those different tokens that appear in every new set (Angle Warrior?) I find it hard to find the right ones fast. Do you sleeve them in colored sleeves? Or just sort them?
Counterspell is more powerful than Mana Leak, both are playable though. And some cards are situationally good. Sure, some cards will fall of, but I think you will recognize that by your experience and by just playing with the cube and adjusting it from time to time. If you are open to modify the cards later on, you will be able to balance your cube over time. That is how WotC is balancing their cards. Just by playing with them.
At two mana, the ability will still serve the purpose of bouncing back Triomes or MDFC in the lategame for value.
I was pondering about how I could give the ability to a creature that is cheaper than Meloku and came up with three colors, but not with making the ability more expansive.
Thanks a lot.
Mnami needs a nerve, I think there you are right. I play with ABU Duals, Shockduals and Triomes (plus custom made Shard-Triomes).
How about the Giant, is it strong enough as a 4/4?
Firo, Waker of Waves RUG
Legendary Creature — Elemental
Haste
You may play lands from your graveyard.
3/3
Maybe it needs to cost 1RUG or the loot needs to cost
Rikyu, High Priest of Jun 1UGW
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
You may play an additional land each turn.
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, gain 1 life.
1/5
Icehide Giant 2WUB
Artifact Creature — Giant Golem
When Icehide Giant enters the battlefield, choose one -
-Gain 5 life.
-Draw two cards.
-Target player discards two cards.
Entwine
Evoke WUB
4/4
Maybe the giant needs to be 5/5?
Mnami, Nacatl Warchief GG
Legendary Creature — Cat Warrior
Trample
If you control a mountain, Mnami gets +1/+1 and has haste.
If you conbtrol a plains, Mnami gets +1/+1 and has lifelink.
2/2
Hmm, I really get why the Triome lands make people wishing for Mirage Fetchlands, but I think that the interaction is quite poorly, unfortunately. I mean, one of the arguments for the new Modal lands often is the fact that the come untapped. Having a land, that comes to play tapped and then brings a land tapped is so annoying. Espacially in powered cubes, I cannot imagine that that it's a good idea to play that interaction.
What we need is a new, simple Fetchland Cycle that comes into play untapped but brings a land into play tapped.
I actually play with some Proxies and I created that cycle, completed the Triomes and it is amazing!
@wtwlf: Did you consider cards that bounce back lands to your hand that you did not play before? With the Triomes and the Modal cards, some of those cards could be worth it now, right? It made me bring back Meloku.
But sure, if you own several cubes, it could be an interesting restriction.
I have a powered Cube for some month now and just built a lower powered cube. It is aimed to play 1vs1, because that is what I usually do. I got frustrated by the randomness of the P9 and other autopicks. But I wonder why one would limit themselves to Commons and Uncommons.
I mean, it is no constructed format, and a lot of commons and uncommons are as strong as rares. If you want to avoid bombs, you can allways do that.
Can someone give me an explanation of the fascination?
rantipole plays 6/10 signets and I like that a lot. Personally I would like to play more colored two mana rocks, and I am going to do that with the new talismans, but I like the thought process behind it:
RW and RG surely want the fixing, but since they are more agressive, they do not want to take the second turn off to play a Signet.
GB and GW are eather similar agressive or they have a lot of fixing though Elves and stuff.
So rantipole plays an additional land in those slots.
I thought about pushing this even further:
Since RW Aggro needs untapped fixing lands the most of all color combinations, why shouldn't I give them more than the other color pairs?
I could see myself cutting an Ajani or a Lightning Helix for a Sunbaked Canyon, since it is a card that makes RW Aggro more accessible.
I compare it to the differance in the creature count. Some colors need more creatures than others, since Aggro needs more than control. But I think the same is true for fixing. If I play GU ramp, it could be totally fine to play just two fixing lands or if I play UW control I could get away with one dual, a signet and a Coalition Relic, but I would be in trouble if I had to play RW Beatdown with just a Plateau.
I think gold cards are meant to drive you into colors or directions, but I think fixing can do the same, so just counting all fixing lands as gold cards and then give some colors more or less lands is an aproach I am looking forward to try.
With the new talismans, I am going to try out playing the following split:
UW Signet
UB Signet
UR Signet
BR Signet
UW Talisman
UB Talisman
UR Talisman
BR Talisman
BW Talisman
UG Talisman
Has anyone of you experimented with an uneven distribution of fixing lands?
I like your third point. The point of limiting the amount of gold cards is, that they fit in lesser decks. Hybrid cards are easier to cast and fit in more decks (especially those with just one colored symbol). I would just add a Hybrid section to my cube, but some combinations just dont have powerfull ones. Maybe counting two Hybrid cards as one Gold card could be right, I don't know.
I saw that a lot of people value estatics quite high and want a color balance in that regard, but playing a Noble Hierarch as a Bant card or Sphinx of the Steel Wind as an Esper card makes no real sense to me. (Hierarch is good in all Gx decks and Spinx is a Tinker/Welder target).
I startet my cube by copying rantipoles cube, but I guess I am reevaluating those facts soon and will adjust my cube. Nature's Chant will find a home in my cube.