MTG Salvation

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Kaldheim Translation: Cold Home
Planechase depiction: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Playerbase Expectation: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under maybe a constant blizzard]
Chandra Comic depiction: [A Viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Duels of the Planeswalkers depiction: [A crazy viking shaman in a world filled with ice and snow.]
Secret Lair depiction: [VERDANT LANDSCAPES! BRIGHT AND SUNNY CLEAR SKIES! oh and some snow. BUT ALSO WE GOT FLOATING ROCKS AND WEIRD GEOGRAPHICAL GEOMETRY]

Upvoted

Probably should also have added in that original post:

Kaldheim Planechase Inspiration: Niflheim (Translation: Mist/Fog, or Home World of Mist/Fog. A primordial world filled with ice, snow, mist, and darkness as though it were always winter.)

Kaldheim Translation: Cold Home
Planechase depiction: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Playerbase Expectation: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under maybe a constant blizzard]
Chandra Comic depiction: [A Viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Duels of the Planeswalkers depiction: [A crazy viking shaman in a world filled with ice and snow.]
Secret Lair depiction: [VERDANT LANDSCAPES! BRIGHT AND SUNNY CLEAR SKIES! oh and some snow. BUT ALSO WE GOT FLOATING ROCKS AND WEIRD GEOGRAPHICAL GEOMETRY]

Quote from Creedmoor »

Quote from Rosy Dumplings »

Quote from Creedmoor »

God I'm sick of Kaya. For one, she is probably going to ruin the story again by killing another character. For two, she killed the obzedat! I'll never forgive her. I was very excited to get a new card for them, and it got pushed out by a subpar Kaya card. And now she is here to ruin something else...

The thing about this complaint is that it doesn't really seem relevant here.

Yes, Kaya killed established characters in her only appearances so far.
Yes, a "spirit killer" is probably going to kill spirits again this time around.

The thing about that, though, is that this is an entirely new plane for us.

There aren't going to be people who were hoping to see more cards of "Kromaun of the Hallowed Halls" or whatever because any creature she kills this time around will be entirely new and will have no pre-established fans. If anything, putting Kaya in brand new planes is the safest way to use her as it means that we don't have to worry about her bumping off an established character that people already like.

No, my comment is relevant. She is a poorly written character who simply gets put into worlds to kill people off. Sure, maybe we don't know anyone here, but she will likely kill off someone important to the story just because that's what she does. Actually, I would hope that she gets bumped off just because she is just a plot device. I'm sick of the stories revolving around planeswalkers meddling in the events of every single plane we go to and having such of the story revolve around their involvement.

It feels fake.

It's like every planeswalker shows up at just the right time in every world to see the biggest events, and then changes them. There is little to no evidence why this happens for most of the planes they visit, yet there they are: front and center and the heroes of the story.

Plus shes no Agent 47. Like yea shes basically been used as a hitman, but she doesn't really kill her primary target in a creative way either. So all we are left with is a 1-note assassin.

Like even the way she killed the council is basically no-selling it. Sure the council had it coming, but if fights are like a story, then man Obzedat's death was a snorefest. Easiest fix is just having Kaya go after the ghost council one member one at a time when they are alone like Kaya is the predator. Which creates a tension, possibly a better motive, as Kaya can't just waltz up and kill them all at once as together they are too strong, but alone they are easy pickings.

Since she just strolls in and kills them all like it were nothing, they blew their load with her in terms of potential story development. Like if she can kill the ghost council, ancient powerful ghosts who can literally create blackholes and had a warded room to keep assassins out, then where do you take her story from there? She can go kill I guess the Kaldheim equivalent of Hel or Odin or whatever who is also a ghost but it just makes her uninteresting as they have established that Kaya is more a plot device and less a character.

Quote from flaming infinity »

Every card is available for a limited time and in a limited quantity. This one is simply not sold in stores and is made in as large a quantitiy as desired unlike From the Vault or Commander Arsenal.

You --------------------------------------------------------------------------- the point of why this is controversial.

It's actually 2 cards total that really caused problems out of hundreds. True Name Nemesis did in legacy and Nexus of Fate did in standard. They obviously took a hint from Nexus and never released another exclusive BaB promo that caused problems.

If they took the hint, wouldn't we not have had a similar situation with this exact product?

People are blowing this way out of proportion and this is apparently 5 different unique cards and tokens for $50.

Didn't realize you were batting for WotC this hard. How much they paying you?

Its price per card isn't necessarily going to be any worse than lots of other exclusive product cards.

Bruh really? You for real? You going to clickity clack on your keyboard and tell me if some new exclusive card was like Uro or Oko or Lurrus (pre-nerf) levels in power but its from a Secret Lair, its just fine? Right?

They're also all legendary so far and probably not going to be played a ton other than as a commander.

So what your saying is they can print whatever dumb stuff for commander, because its commander, and nobody should really care about the format? And if causes harm to other formats, thats just collateral damage? Right?

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Ok good news guys

https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format

Honestly? Good.

"Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


Disgusting.

your clearing not seeing what they are talking about

the point is the RC of commander are looking into it for us

man did this secret lair left a taste so sour to you it like you didn't hear what they said at all

You mean besides the fact that they are "talking it over" and how they invited people over to their discord to weigh in. And yeah the discussion around the card was mostly negative towards wizards decision and wanted it considered banned to send a message to wizards that this practice is unacceptable. Literally the chat was flying with how fast it was going.

Its not about power. Its about limited availability for a FOMO effect as Wizards has actually stepped into the ring of selling singles of brand new cards that are not reprints.

And yea I see your edit, about how they broke their promise with selling functionally unique promos. To use the fallout meme to represent the playerbase: "Nobody liked that".

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Ok good news guys

https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format

Honestly? Good.

"Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


Disgusting.

"we banned Uro because Theros is not selling hard enough."

Heh, called it.

Https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/817783-m21-kaervek-the-spiteful-the-magic-arcanum?comment=35

Also your missing out Shrieking Drake and Dream Stalker.

Needs more dragon, boar, monkey, rat, rabbit, and horse.

Hey mods, would you care to move this thread to Talk & Entertainment? Clearly this has little bearing on MTG as a whole and more just as a way for people to in general talk about off topic things.

Quote from FlossedBeaver »

Quote from Simto »

Yeah they obviously experienced summer too, but people want snow and lots of it

Who?

Who doesn't? Other than a handful of "acchhtuuaally vikings didn't have horns on their helmets and they did actually experience summer!" types.
I still have hopes for this set being cool since the leaked art box art has lots of snow and the designs of those leaked figures look pretty cool.

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Kaldheim Translation: Cold Home
Planechase depiction: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Playerbase Expectation: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under maybe a constant blizzard]
Chandra Comic depiction: [A Viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard]
Duels of the Planeswalkers depiction: [A crazy viking shaman in a world filled with ice and snow.]
Secret Lair depiction: [VERDANT LANDSCAPES! BRIGHT AND SUNNY CLEAR SKIES! oh and some snow. BUT ALSO WE GOT FLOATING ROCKS AND WEIRD GEOGRAPHICAL GEOMETRY]

Upvoted

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Quote from Simto »

I still have hopes for this set [Kaldheim / Cold Home / World of Cold] being cool since the leaked art box art has lots of snow and the designs of those leaked figures look pretty cool.

Punned through the heart.

lol it was unintentional.

I have absolutely no problem with Kaldheim not being 100% snow everywhere. If it was, it'd probably be a little boring. There's a reason Empire Strikes Back doesn't take place entirely on Hoth. What I do dislike is that it looks too similar to Zendikar. I've the feeling that due to Zendikar's popularity, floating rocks and huge trees/Pandora/Roger Dean style landscapes are gonna become the new norm for Magic planes onwards...

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Ok good news guys

https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1310725509857370112?s=20

Sheldon and the RC committe Are listening to us, taking notes and weighing options Basicly they are discussing TWD cards

and they will have something to say and will definatly be before the secret lair drops

in other words This looks like a sign TWD cards will probably be considered silver bordered In commander format

Honestly? Good.

"Oh you want this new commander that has a playstyle you like? Well why didn't you buy it in this limited window for this price? Not in your country? OOooh don't worry, you can just buy it for this marked up price from someone on ebay. Thats fine right?"


Disgusting.

I'm 100% with you on this. My first take was that "Hey these look fun" but the more I thought about it the more this conclusion seemed to be obvious. Vanity cards are one thing but selling unique cards at a premium price for a limited time is just gross. The EDH/Commander community needs to voice their disapproval of this tactic to WotC now or it's just going to get worse, I'm already kind of sick of the secret lairs and if this is the direction they want to take it, we should all be standing against it on principle alone.

are people forgetting that the Red Minotaur extra combat dude is in this set.. this lets mono-R be able to drop a bunch of lands in 1 turn and just win the game with 4+ extra combats...

Quote from ilovesaprolings »

... what's the point of this card? You have to both pay X and sacrifice a lot of lands... not worth it

Dude.........this is somewhat scapeshift in red and imagine with a crucible of worlds and a Amulet of vigor In play

Plus lord windgrace Decks

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Yeah 6/10s of that is Sultai that is doing the heavy lifting. Since they dediced to do activated abilities for the red and white one, they are litterally nonbos with their own lord. And the reasoning given was "we didn't want to repeat the same thing like the old shrines". So why not just make the white one have instead a "at the beginng of your upkeep, tap target creature with a converted mana of cost X or less, where X is the number of shrines you conrol" and also for the red one "at the beginning of your upkeep, you may discard a land card or shrine card. If you do, deal X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is equal to the number of Shrines you control."

Yeah, this sounds like a design fail, and they are just backtracking to justify it. Sanctum of All should have been worded as working with activated or triggered abilities of shrines to make all of them work.

I have to admit, I'm taken aback at people rejecting the notion of the value of equity. Equality as a concept is impoverished if it doesn't include dimensions of equity; equity makes equality ethically robust. Now if someone could demonstrate to me what equality actually loses by including equity, that would be a fascinating discussion.

I have to pause you here, equity has to occur organically, in my opinion, in order for it to be of value. To deny the opportunity to compete is assuredly wrong, but the institutional mandate of equity is equally flawed. Solely as a matter of self-worth and the perception of those you interact with should not be tarnished by the assumption that the position you achieved is a result of pity. Extrapolating this idea, I find the practice endemic to Hollywood awards of differentiating best actor and actress sexist and unnecessary. Would you suggest that Audrey Hepburn would not be recognized if she were a man? It had even been suggested they should further fragmentizing according to race. All that is telling me is one of two things: Hollywood admits to not giving the same opportunities to succeed or they are insinuating that a particular demographic is more capable at acting. Either option is repugnant.
To further go down this rabbit hole, the question of biological inequality in capabilities comes up in a competition like the Olympics. Are we at a point where we can still have competitions that are separated male/female? The reason for the initial separation was to level the playing field because of an understanding of average physical capabilities between men and women. Where does a transgender individual fall in this spectrum? What if you are biologically female but identify as male? Is the correct course of action to differentiate or to combine? Either way equity is not possible to attain.

So, yes, I want my doctor to be an African American woman because she is the individual that has earned the position, and is not a quota. I want my president to be the man whose ideals and experience resonate with what I feel is the best for the country, and not to hit a milestone in opportunity (I am not saying Obama was not the best choice, but rather I had heard people vote for him solely because of his race and what that shows for equity and equality).

Equity will follow equality, but organically it takes some time. If indeed wotc was denying people based on race that is absolutely wrong. Equity done in an organic manner is painful, and slow. But equity to create equality creates resentment and maintains a racial lens.

as i said in the other topic, the banning will just increase the attention to these cards, which were forgotten by most people or which newer players never have known in the first place. now their price is increasing, surely not what wizards intended to accomplish with this (or ?)