Regarding Kaya's Guile: That's good news. I thought about replacing my 2 mb Blood Moon with Kaya's Guile. Kind of going away from free wins with Blood Moon but to a better G1 against GY decks and against Burn?!
That's currently 12 spells with cmc 3 in the main board - probably going to cut Kaya, Orzhov Usurper (even though I liked her so far, so maybe -1 Guile?).
I have yet to think about Unearth and test it - therefore it's not yet included. But I hear people like it together wit Dreadhorde Arcanist. Currently, I'll try my more "conservative" approach.
Regarding Kaya's Guile: That's good news. I thought about replacing my 2 mb Blood Moon with Kaya's Guile. Kind of going away from free wins with Blood Moon but to a better G1 against GY decks and against Burn?!
Great to hear. 2 Seasoned Pyromancer and 3 Bedlam Reveler will also be my starting point (I still feel that Bedlam is our best threat/value card but you don't wanna have 2 in hand).
Fairly sure it's unplayable. Look at it this way:
[+1]: do nothing.
[+0]: deal 2-X damage to target opponent, where X is the number of creatures they control with toughness 2 or higher.
[-2]: flashback a card with CMC equal to your remaining mana after casting Chandra.
The only way you're guaranteed any kind of reasonable value is if you minus the turn you cast it, as any opposing creatures or even a simple bolt will leave her dead or unable to minus. But that requires having 4+ (preferably 5 or 6) lands in play which is absolutely not something you can count on with this deck. If you want to flashback 1-CMC spells, run Dreadhorde Arcanist instead.
Yes, I agree. The ceiling seems very high for this card. It's a bad top deck though. Therefore, I think it's a SB card.
Yesterday, I played TWICE against Bogles (2 of 4 matches...). I whished I had Force of Despair against them after SB...
Nice... This card does a lot. It's not as susceptible to graveyard hate as Bedlam Reveler, filters 2 cards or draws one to two cards sometimes, can create some blockers and can be "flashbacked". I will start with a split between Bedlam Reveler and Seasoned Pyromancer (3-2 or 2-3)and test from there.
Another spoiler from today:
Force of Despair
1BB
Instant
If it's not your turn, you may exile a black card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy all creatures that entered the battlefield this turn.
Could be a sideboard card for us against CoCo and Hollow One decks?
What I like about Saheeli, Sublime Artificer are the 5 starting loyalty counters and as PW she dodges a lot of removal.
I wonder if there is a way for Mardu to abuse the fact the she triggers of non-creature spells (not only instants or sorceries). Stuff like Nihil Spellbomb, Ensnaring Bridge and Runed Halo trigger her. Would probably be quite a different Mardu list than the current Mardu pyro... Anyway, she's intriguing and I will try her maybe for an FNM. I will consider copying a Young Pyromancer with Saheeli as a win
Regarding Dreadhorde Arcanist: He looks awesome if we can attack with him. However, I don't like that it makes Mardu even more dependent on the graveyard. He could replace some number of Bedlam Reveler. Are there already any ideas how to build Dreadhorde Mardu in the Japanese community?
Seems like the double black is a difficult thing. Isn’t this primarily a black/red deck? I thought double back would be fairly easy, especially since some of you do lilis.
I will try with summits first as you say. I don’t mind spending money, but I feel fastland prices are inflated beyond their usefulness. Also, they have a reprint target right on their head.
Yes, most lists are heavy on R followed by B while W is just a splash. Double black is ok but you definitely don't want too many double black cards in your average Mardu Pyro deck. I guess, we have to see how good Ashiok is in our deck and how many we need to include.
It's super loose right now in it's build but it's because I'm testing several things at once..
Boseju hasn't ever been a card played in this deck but I figured it could be super useful in guaranteeing the Jace resolves or stays protected..
But will continue working on this
Cool list! I especially love your sideboard!! Do you play 3 Dispel because of control? Otherwise, I'd suggest to cut some and add cards against Burn/Aggro (like Timely Reinforcements or Dragon's claw etc)*. In my opinion, your PWs and Gigadrowse + Boseiju, Who Shelters All are enough to make control a good matchup.
*But I could be biased because there are many Burn players in my LGS.
I agree with Dubarrini's suggestion:
- 22 - 23 lands are probably ideal for turns decks and 25 seem to be too many.
- not sure if I like 0 Snapcaster Mage. You said it yourself that you need to protect your Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and sometimes a ambush viper is all you need to untap with your Jace.
Hello folks. I am new to this deck (not to Modern) as well. I am currently 80% of the way to acquiring the cards. Should finish soon.
A couple of questions and a comment.
Is the fastland necessary for this deck? Can Dragonskull Summit surmise?
Hi!
I was in the same spot 2 - 3 month ago. I started out with 3 Dragonskull Summit to replace Blackcleave Cliffs and it kind of worked but there were situations were I got screwed. Now I acquired the fastlands now and I don't look back. Being able to have painless access to black or red mana on turn 1 is great and since we rarely need more than 3 - 4 lands, the fastlands are almost always better or equal to the checklands (in this deck).
My conclusion: If you wanna test the deck, Dragonskull Summit can be ok, but I'd try to borrow some Blackcleave Cliffs for FNMs etc.
Would you see this deck as a sleeper that needs a couple of cards to explode? Which grindy deck is it good against?
Mardu might be a bit too fair and too slow if your LGS has a lot of Tron or Dredge and other silly decks. However, it's a very enjoyable deck that kind of fell out of favor. And, I found the Phoenix decks not to be a too bad match up.
I wouldn't say it's a sleeper deck. But it's definitively a modern deck with which you can have success if you master it's steep learning curve. However, we hope that Modern Horizons will bring some cards to Modern to improve fair decks. So, there is a chance that Mardu Pyro will be better positioned again.
I feel Ashiok is what this deck needed? It is good against all of the weak matchups mentioned above. It is hate against (not solely, in combination with this deck’s discard and removal, of course) Phoenix, Tron, Dredge and Scapeshift variants. Am I off?
The new Ashiok looks very interesting. My guess is, that we'll have to test whether a turn 3 (and double black) sorcery-speed spell (that can be attacked) is good enough to slow down tutor decks and graveyard decks. Maybe more experienced Mardu players have different opinions on Ashiok, Dream Render.
Narset's Reversal Seems like it could work here. In some cases it's a weird Remand, but it also has combo potential to double-dip on our turn spells/interaction. Also a neat upside is that it can stop turns spells from exiling when they resolve, (because the copy is the one that actually resolves not the original card). Thoughts?
I like Narset's Reversal as well. Not yet sure if it's good enough. I mean, its upside (over things like Remand or maybe Commandeer) is that it can be used proactively to copy Time Warp and friends. But then, in what Modern matchups will Narset's Reversal be useful as an answer? UW control, which we already beat with Gigadrowse? Maybe it's useful against Midrange like Jund or GDS? Or, is copying and bouncing Faithless Looting from Phoenix or Dredge better than remanding it? We have to see, if Narset's Reversal's proactive usefulness outweighs the fact that its only a narrow answer.
I know many players are excited about Kefnet, but I've been mostly impressed by Narset, Parter of Veils 1UU. She can practically brake the symmetry of ours Mines and Edicts, plus she gives us 2 ticks down of Azcanta.
Looks kind of nice. But I also think it's too much work to cast a do-nothing PW for 3 Mana to break the symmetry of Howling Mine any further. At 3 cmc she is probably also to slow to slow down Phoenix decks. However, I never used Search of Azcanta and therefore I could be undervaluing Narset, Parter of Veils loyalty ability. Name-wise, she'd fit in our deck very well.
Very excited to test the new cards from War of the Sparks!
I play a mono blue version of the deck (not frequently enough because of work :frown::frown: ) and took it to a side event at the MagicFest Strasbourg last weekend.
I played 2-1 in 3 rounds of Swiss and went against Merfolk (0-2), UW Midrange (2-1) and Burn (2-1). Thanks to 2 maindeck Radiant Fountain and 4 SB Dragon's claw I didn't fear the Burn matchup too much. As it turned out the event was overrun by Burn
Here's my decklist and along with a small report (here).
How is the Phoenix Matchup for you guys? I haven't played against them so far with Turns.
Thanks for posting your decklist and report. Looks sweet! How have the Spreading Seas been? I can see them being strong in the right meta, but I'm not sure if many places have that meta right now. The Phonex matchup has been pretty close to even for me, but a lot of my losses have been due to my own misplays. They don't have a lot of countermagic game 1 (usually 0 - 2 Izzet Charm as the only counters), so you can do things like hold up Cryptic Command with relatively little fear of it being countered. In my experience, if the opponent has a very fast start (like turn 3 flipped Thing in the Ice, or turn 2 two Phoenixes), then the game is incredibly difficult. When their starts are much slower (turn 3 single Phoenix, or you kill their Thing in the Ice), it can be hard for them to kill you before you go off.
Thanks for reply!
I agree with you, Spreading Seas didn't feel very good this time around. It excels if there's a lot of Big Mana decks and 3-color decks. I plan to replace it with Remand, bounce spells or maybe I splash a color for removal like (bolt, push or path). All cards I consider to replace Spreading Seas with are instants (or sorceries), which is also nice for the post board Thing in the Ices.
I play a mono blue version of the deck (not frequently enough because of work :frown::frown: ) and took it to a side event at the MagicFest Strasbourg last weekend.
I played 2-1 in 3 rounds of Swiss and went against Merfolk (0-2), UW Midrange (2-1) and Burn (2-1). Thanks to 2 maindeck Radiant Fountain and 4 SB Dragon's claw I didn't fear the Burn matchup too much. As it turned out the event was overrun by Burn
Here's my decklist and along with a small report (here).
How is the Phoenix Matchup for you guys? I haven't played against them so far with Turns.
Haha, don't get me wrong, I love Blood Moon and taking it out was a tough decision. And it makes as worse against Big Mana decks G1, no doubt.
I thought about something like this:
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Bedlam Reveler
3 Seasoned Pyromancer
Removal
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
Discard
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
Swiss Army Knifes
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Kaya's Guile
1 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
Lands
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Concealed Courtyard
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Molten Rain
2 Blood Moon
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Wear // Tear
That's currently 12 spells with cmc 3 in the main board - probably going to cut Kaya, Orzhov Usurper (even though I liked her so far, so maybe -1 Guile?).
I have yet to think about Unearth and test it - therefore it's not yet included. But I hear people like it together wit Dreadhorde Arcanist. Currently, I'll try my more "conservative" approach.
Btw: Leyline of the Void reprint in M20 - time to stock up our GY hate.
Great to hear. 2 Seasoned Pyromancer and 3 Bedlam Reveler will also be my starting point (I still feel that Bedlam is our best threat/value card but you don't wanna have 2 in hand).
Was Kaya's Guile good against fast GY decks like Dredge and Bridge Vine?
I agree 100% with this assessment. Especially now, where the 3-drop slot becomes more and more crowded with (possibly) impactful cards like Kaya's Guile, Seasoned Pyromancer competing with old tech Liliana of the Veil,Liliana, the Last Hope...
Has anyone tested MH cards already?
Yesterday, I played TWICE
Another spoiler from today:
Force of Despair
1BB
Instant
If it's not your turn, you may exile a black card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Destroy all creatures that entered the battlefield this turn.
Could be a sideboard card for us against CoCo and Hollow One decks?
I wonder if there is a way for Mardu to abuse the fact the she triggers of non-creature spells (not only instants or sorceries). Stuff like Nihil Spellbomb, Ensnaring Bridge and Runed Halo trigger her. Would probably be quite a different Mardu list than the current Mardu pyro... Anyway, she's intriguing and I will try her maybe for an FNM. I will consider copying a Young Pyromancer with Saheeli as a win
Regarding Dreadhorde Arcanist: He looks awesome if we can attack with him. However, I don't like that it makes Mardu even more dependent on the graveyard. He could replace some number of Bedlam Reveler. Are there already any ideas how to build Dreadhorde Mardu in the Japanese community?
Yes, most lists are heavy on R followed by B while W is just a splash. Double black is ok but you definitely don't want too many double black cards in your average Mardu Pyro deck. I guess, we have to see how good Ashiok is in our deck and how many we need to include.
Yes, fastlands need to be reprinted
Cool list! I especially love your sideboard!! Do you play 3 Dispel because of control? Otherwise, I'd suggest to cut some and add cards against Burn/Aggro (like Timely Reinforcements or Dragon's claw etc)*. In my opinion, your PWs and Gigadrowse + Boseiju, Who Shelters All are enough to make control a good matchup.
*But I could be biased because there are many Burn players in my LGS.
I agree with Dubarrini's suggestion:
- 22 - 23 lands are probably ideal for turns decks and 25 seem to be too many.
- not sure if I like 0 Snapcaster Mage. You said it yourself that you need to protect your Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and sometimes a ambush viper is all you need to untap with your Jace.
Hi!
I was in the same spot 2 - 3 month ago. I started out with 3 Dragonskull Summit to replace Blackcleave Cliffs and it kind of worked but there were situations were I got screwed. Now I acquired the fastlands now and I don't look back. Being able to have painless access to black or red mana on turn 1 is great and since we rarely need more than 3 - 4 lands, the fastlands are almost always better or equal to the checklands (in this deck).
My conclusion: If you wanna test the deck, Dragonskull Summit can be ok, but I'd try to borrow some Blackcleave Cliffs for FNMs etc.
Mardu might be a bit too fair and too slow if your LGS has a lot of Tron or Dredge and other silly decks. However, it's a very enjoyable deck that kind of fell out of favor. And, I found the Phoenix decks not to be a too bad match up.
I wouldn't say it's a sleeper deck. But it's definitively a modern deck with which you can have success if you master it's steep learning curve. However, we hope that Modern Horizons will bring some cards to Modern to improve fair decks. So, there is a chance that Mardu Pyro will be better positioned again.
The new Ashiok looks very interesting. My guess is, that we'll have to test whether a turn 3 (and double black) sorcery-speed spell (that can be attacked) is good enough to slow down tutor decks and graveyard decks. Maybe more experienced Mardu players have different opinions on Ashiok, Dream Render.
edit: grammer
I like Narset's Reversal as well. Not yet sure if it's good enough. I mean, its upside (over things like Remand or maybe Commandeer) is that it can be used proactively to copy Time Warp and friends. But then, in what Modern matchups will Narset's Reversal be useful as an answer? UW control, which we already beat with Gigadrowse? Maybe it's useful against Midrange like Jund or GDS? Or, is copying and bouncing Faithless Looting from Phoenix or Dredge better than remanding it? We have to see, if Narset's Reversal's proactive usefulness outweighs the fact that its only a narrow answer.
Looks kind of nice. But I also think it's too much work to cast a do-nothing PW for 3 Mana to break the symmetry of Howling Mine any further. At 3 cmc she is probably also to slow to slow down Phoenix decks. However, I never used Search of Azcanta and therefore I could be undervaluing Narset, Parter of Veils loyalty ability. Name-wise, she'd fit in our deck very well.
Very excited to test the new cards from War of the Sparks!
Thanks for reply!
I agree with you, Spreading Seas didn't feel very good this time around. It excels if there's a lot of Big Mana decks and 3-color decks. I plan to replace it with Remand, bounce spells or maybe I splash a color for removal like (bolt, push or path). All cards I consider to replace Spreading Seas with are instants (or sorceries), which is also nice for the post board Thing in the Ices.
I play a mono blue version of the deck (not frequently enough because of work :frown::frown: ) and took it to a side event at the MagicFest Strasbourg last weekend.
I played 2-1 in 3 rounds of Swiss and went against Merfolk (0-2), UW Midrange (2-1) and Burn (2-1). Thanks to 2 maindeck Radiant Fountain and 4 SB Dragon's claw I didn't fear the Burn matchup too much. As it turned out the event was overrun by Burn
Here's my decklist and along with a small report (here).
How is the Phoenix Matchup for you guys? I haven't played against them so far with Turns.