I'm assuming that instants and sorceries on the whole are "costs" like Careful Study, Catalog so are not an effect?
Jace has you discard as part of the effect, since it's after the colon.
Instants and sorceries usually have you discard as part of the effect; if they don't, it'll be explicitly part of the cost (like Cathartic Reunion).
Anything before a colon of an activated ability is a cost, so Library of Leng can't replace it.
If a spell says "As an additional cost to cast this spell, discard a card," that's also a cost (obviously, 'cause it even says so!), so Library can't replace it.
Discarding to hand size at the cleanup step is a game action, not an effect, so Library can't replace it. If an ability says something like "You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card," that discard is a cost, so Library can't replace it.Huh. New to me!
Straight from the Rules Manager:
Quote from Eli Shiffrin »
Effects can make you pay a cost, then what you do is both a cost and caused by an effect. Yay!
Nearly everything else you'd discard a card for is an effect, including the cards you discard during the resolution of Careful Study, Catalog, etc.
The Daze will remain exiled. Nothing on Chrome Mox says that the exiled card changes zones later, so it doesn't.
Also, note that if you replay the Chrome Mox later, it's a new Mox that has no memory of the Daze the old Mox exiled. The new Mox's mana ability will be linked to a new card (assuming you choose to exile one with the first ability), and the Daze is just kinda... in exile. Lonely.
It can be redirected to target itsekf by other cards and abilities, but it can't be cast frommhand tsrgetting itself as it is not on the stack to target.
No, it can't. A spell is never a legal target for itself. You can't redirect a target to an illegal target.
This exact situation was actually discussed (granted, a ways back) by Riki Hiyashi, a GP Head Judge, and I don't think our position has significantly shifted here.
You can find his article here, but the short version is "it's probably going to be ruled based on what you actually did." That is, if you say "Esper Charm target me," but then you drew 2 cards... well, obviously that was your intent with it.
yea but doesnt the replacement trigger due to the death? (no death means no replacement) so shouldnt it trigger twice ? and if so, can it be twice with just one creature there to be exiled ?
Replacement effects don't trigger, ever. They replace an event.
Teysa wants to replace a trigger that is caused by something dying.
Kalitas replaces something dying by putting it in exile instead.
Dying only ever means "goes from the battlefield to the graveyard." Since nothing is dying, nothing triggers from something dying, so Teysa has nothing to replace.
So, what you should always remember is that players use shortcuts at their own risks. If they then create confusion or a situation of miscommunication, they are responsible for it.
Ex 1: Player A taps 3 swamps and says “pump”, pointing out at his Looming Shade. In response, player B plays Incinerate on the Shade. Even if A claims that he wanted to pass priority between each pump, he chose to use a shortcut (not making clear that he was passing priority), and then cannot come back on it. According to the second criteria of the intent test explained in Justus’ article, it is obvious that you can’t let A’s creature survive since, because of his shortcut (“sloppy play”), he now knows that B is holding an Incinerate in hand.
Keep in mind that this article is fully 15 years old, and the MTR is super clear about how this shortcut works, "intent" or not:
Quote from MTR 4.2 »
If a player adds a group of objects to the stack without explicitly retaining priority, they are assumed to be adding them to the stack individually and allowing each to resolve before adding the next. If another player wishes to take an action at a point in the middle of this sequence, the actions should be reversed to that point.
This dates back to at least Jan 2011, which is the oldest MTR I have archived, using near-identical language.
Correct on both counts. Samurai of the Pale Curtain refers to "permanents" with no other qualifier, so it's only referring to things that exist as permanents on the battlefield, and not "permanent cards" like things in library or hand.
Something would go to the graveyard from the battlefield? Exiled.
Something would go to the graveyard from somewhere else? It goes to the graveyard.
thanks. Your answer to question 1 is imnportant.. so it means even if opponent controls the rip, I can still choose prog not to be exiled by rip?
Yup! If it's your Progenitus, you decide what replacement effect happens, regardless of how many replacement effects there are or who controls the sources of them.
Quote from Comprehensive Rules »
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
1. What if opponent is the one in control of the rest in peace?
Unlike multiple triggered abilities, replacement effects don't care about turn order. The affected object's controller chooses the order of replacement effects regardless of who owns the sources of those replacement effects.
2. Replacement effects does not use the stack, right?
Right. They just replace all or parts of other effects which may or may not themselves use the stack.
A few years ago, the policy around Missed Triggers changed. It used to be that you had to remind your opponent of their triggers. Current policy is that you don't have to.
The guidelines for Missed Triggers (IPG 2.1) are clear on the two main points here:
1. An opponent isn't required to point out missed triggers.
2. If a trigger *is* pointed out, and it's been less than a turn, the opponent can choose to put it on the stack.
It isn't cheating to take advantage of a better understanding of tournament policy to get your opponent here. You are fully within your rights to do this, for example:
AP casts Summoner's Pact, then passes turn.
NAP does stuff, then passes back.
AP draws for turn.
AP taps out and puts a spell on the stack.
NAP says "Hey, by the way, you didn't pay for your trigger."
NAP can choose to put the trigger on the stack now, and the odds of AP being able to pay for the trigger are very very slim.
This is unequivocally not cheating. If you feel that this is unsporting (and note that this is lowercase unsporting, not the infraction Unsporting Conduct), you are welcome to remind your opponent at the appropriate time before they take any further actions.
Edit: I would like to be very clear that triggers are the only place you can do this. For example, you can't let your opponent forget a replacement effect (like not get a zombie from Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet) or put something in the wrong zone (like something gets Path to Exiled and someone puts it in the graveyard).
It will only work on new creatures that enter. When you turn something that's already on the battlefield into a copy of something, it isn't leaving or re-entering, it's just changing its attributes.
Jace has you discard as part of the effect, since it's after the colon.
Instants and sorceries usually have you discard as part of the effect; if they don't, it'll be explicitly part of the cost (like Cathartic Reunion).
Anything before a colon of an activated ability is a cost, so Library of Leng can't replace it.
If a spell says "As an additional cost to cast this spell, discard a card," that's also a cost (obviously, 'cause it even says so!), so Library can't replace it.
Discarding to hand size at the cleanup step is a game action, not an effect, so Library can't replace it.
If an ability says something like "You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card," that discard is a cost, so Library can't replace it.Huh. New to me!Straight from the Rules Manager:
Nearly everything else you'd discard a card for is an effect, including the cards you discard during the resolution of Careful Study, Catalog, etc.
The Daze will remain exiled. Nothing on Chrome Mox says that the exiled card changes zones later, so it doesn't.
Also, note that if you replay the Chrome Mox later, it's a new Mox that has no memory of the Daze the old Mox exiled. The new Mox's mana ability will be linked to a new card (assuming you choose to exile one with the first ability), and the Daze is just kinda... in exile. Lonely.
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1116577296343678978
The triggers go on the stack after they enter. They are legal choices.
You can find his article here, but the short version is "it's probably going to be ruled based on what you actually did." That is, if you say "Esper Charm target me," but then you drew 2 cards... well, obviously that was your intent with it.
Straight from Gatherer:
Nothing loops here.
Teysa wants to replace a trigger that is caused by something dying.
Kalitas replaces something dying by putting it in exile instead.
Dying only ever means "goes from the battlefield to the graveyard." Since nothing is dying, nothing triggers from something dying, so Teysa has nothing to replace.
This dates back to at least Jan 2011, which is the oldest MTR I have archived, using near-identical language.
Something would go to the graveyard from the battlefield? Exiled.
Something would go to the graveyard from somewhere else? It goes to the graveyard.
Right. They just replace all or parts of other effects which may or may not themselves use the stack.
The guidelines for Missed Triggers (IPG 2.1) are clear on the two main points here:
1. An opponent isn't required to point out missed triggers.
2. If a trigger *is* pointed out, and it's been less than a turn, the opponent can choose to put it on the stack.
It isn't cheating to take advantage of a better understanding of tournament policy to get your opponent here. You are fully within your rights to do this, for example:
AP casts Summoner's Pact, then passes turn.
NAP does stuff, then passes back.
AP draws for turn.
AP taps out and puts a spell on the stack.
NAP says "Hey, by the way, you didn't pay for your trigger."
NAP can choose to put the trigger on the stack now, and the odds of AP being able to pay for the trigger are very very slim.
This is unequivocally not cheating. If you feel that this is unsporting (and note that this is lowercase unsporting, not the infraction Unsporting Conduct), you are welcome to remind your opponent at the appropriate time before they take any further actions.
Edit: I would like to be very clear that triggers are the only place you can do this. For example, you can't let your opponent forget a replacement effect (like not get a zombie from Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet) or put something in the wrong zone (like something gets Path to Exiled and someone puts it in the graveyard).