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  • 3

    posted a message on Talk - It is conceading fair play to you?
    Quote from Fenrir Rex »
    Quote from Alexev »
    Quote from Fenrir Rex »
    I believe whatever makes the game enjoyable for the greatest number of people is the correct play.

    The biggest example to this kind of issue has come up with Insurrection. My big, dumb battlecruiser deck has the best, spookiest board, and can kill the table if blockers are cleared with the mass mind control.

    I respond by conceding. One player is salty, I’ve definitely lost (though helped play kingmaker), while two more players are still in the game- net political positive for the next game, and the current game continues with 2/3rd content.

    Usually, the insurrection player is then allowed the classic take backsies and can use their turn and mana differently, essentially killing target player for nothing! Lots of ways around it without taking away the agency of concession at whatever speed you want.


    And this kind of behavior is why conceding at instant speed should not be allowed, you are scooping to deny their legitimate wincon, is insurrection any worst than Triumph of the horde or similars.

    Again, if you do that, if you concede to an insurrection you lack sportsmanship to say the least, and why those people will want to play with you again?


    I mean, you can read, the answer to your question is in what you quoted: politics. My playgroups love me because I focus entirely on what provides the most enjoyable experience for the greatest number of players- full stop. If that means conceding so my overextending into an Insurrection doesn't end the game for half the table, it's entirely welcomed.

    The problem with your arguments, concepts of sportsmanship itself aside, is that you're coming at it exclusively from the angle of the salty player. You aren't the only player in the game, and you definitely aren't the only voice or opinion that matters at any table. The delineation between "spite-scoop" and "tactical scoop" is telling- you're spitting one player, but being tactical to the benefit of the rest; it's all in the perspective. If the table at large disagrees with the scoop, I.E. the majority isn't happy, then I wouldn't do it. But, in every game where I've offered up my head on the block so the game can continue (which, mind you, isn't a huge sample size, but still relevant), the majority loved it and my reputation for kingly politicking persists.

    Triumph of the Hordes is a poor example, if only because you'll find that poison is a contested win condition for roughly half the people I play with. To the point, however, any win condition that relies on your opponents is one that has to be weighed- while the haymakers of Insurrection, Bribery, and friends are the most relevant, there are countless other ways that you can get screwed over by relying on theft effects- whether a player is knocked out or concedes. I'm in the camp that a win-condition that relies on your opponents is not, in fact, "legitimate," but more because of the feels-bad nature of it, rather than any kind of fear of spite plays (oh curse my bleeding "fun first" philosophy).


    What I mean is, if you want to counterspell insurrection then play some Counterspell or Homeward path, or even a fog can screw that move by actually playing magic but you are using a concesion just to screw a player by NOT PLAYING, because if you counter the spell then you are playing magic, ok, if you are at 1 life and tap a painland to deny the insureccion is also OK you are actually playing magic and denying the efcect, but "quit playing" to deny an effect is not playing, so I think is cheap, wrong and unaceptable

    But if your playgroup thinks you are a hero for that and they cheer you that kind of playstyle is OK, every playgroup has their own rules spoken or not
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 2

    posted a message on Talk - It is conceading fair play to you?
    Quote from Fenrir Rex »
    I believe whatever makes the game enjoyable for the greatest number of people is the correct play.

    The biggest example to this kind of issue has come up with Insurrection. My big, dumb battlecruiser deck has the best, spookiest board, and can kill the table if blockers are cleared with the mass mind control.

    I respond by conceding. One player is salty, I’ve definitely lost (though helped play kingmaker), while two more players are still in the game- net political positive for the next game, and the current game continues with 2/3rd content.

    Usually, the insurrection player is then allowed the classic take backsies and can use their turn and mana differently, essentially killing target player for nothing! Lots of ways around it without taking away the agency of concession at whatever speed you want.


    And this kind of behavior is why conceding at instant speed should not be allowed, you are scooping to deny their legitimate wincon, is insurrection any worst than Triumph of the horde or similars.

    Again, if you do that, if you concede to an insurrection you lack sportsmanship to say the least, and why those people will want to play with you again?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 2

    posted a message on Talk - It is conceading fair play to you?
    Quote from DirkGently »

    In both cases the strategic value of the threat is that they might decide not to do the thing you don't want them to do. If they need the lifelink or they'll die on the crack back, for example, they could very well attack elsewhere, or at least non-lethally, to ensure the life gain.

    There's no strategic value in actually scooping, except to ensure people take you seriously in the future. And if they don't change course, then ideally you've lost nothing since you were dead anyway (or basically so, although people frequently suck at knowing when that is).

    Scooping without threatening to is pointless since there's no opportunity for them to change course.

    Threatening to scoop to trivial stuff is dumb since you have so much to lose if they don't change course.

    .


    I have to disagree, there is not a strategic value of that threat, because if you are at 6 life and I am atacking with a 6/6 lifelinker and you threat to concede to deny me the life gain, then one or more of this things will happend.

    1. I will attack you no matter what, you will die and if you concede I will add up those 6 life anyway
    2. I will never ever play again with you because you are just saying 'if things are nor my way, I am out' so for me, be out forever.

    you say that 'crying' and threatening to concede is a strategy? really??? for me is the same strategic value my kids have when they cry and threat for a toy, I will denied them always and will be punished for that behavior.

    After reading your primer I thought better of you, how disappointing
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 1

    posted a message on Talk - It is conceading fair play to you?
    Quote from illakunsaa »


    You are advocating here that you actually cheat. I think "actually cheating" -sportmanship is little worse than "playing the game according to the rules" -sportmanship.

    People who cheat don't deserve to play this game.


    Sorry my natal tongue is not english and I didn't understood exactly what you are saying, can you rephrase this sentence?

    I said, that if you attack me with a 6/6 lifelinker and I concede before damage just to prevent you from gaining life, it is bordeline cheating and in my playgroup even this is not allowed, is poor sportmanship, I have never sufer that kind of bad behavior even in a PUG game on my LGS but I can assure you that if I am ever seated with a player that actually do this kind of things, that would be the last time I play in the same table
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 2

    posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

    Well, I have played my list (it is in my signature) a couple of times and this is my feedback:

    1. The deck is really fun to play and it is not weak at all.

    One of my games I was severely mana screw to the point of not casting my general up to turn 8-9, in that game one layer toke me to 1 life and I almost won the game (I was the last to die and if we didn't had misread a card I would won probably).

    2. The decks is fun also because people cannot interact with your plan at all, you can win, you can loose but is high unlikely that anyone can 'mess with your plan'

    3. Par of the OP advice is 'play with gentle heart' and this is very easy to do with the hippo because... you have noting they can destroy, steal or shut down, we will normally win the counter-war or we will just remove the threats

    4. The hippo is big enough to chump-block most things and because he can bounce and give some one a card, many opponents will not waste a precious attack on a 'do nothing' if if they do, we can block or spot removal.

    5. Because we can give some presents to opponents, they will forget soon if we board-wipe or just did something wrong to them.

    Overall, a great deck, the one I have most fun so far

    So, we just play draw go, we see what people is doing
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • 1

    posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Hi Vishnakuttar,

    I didn't mean any offense by the section, although I'll admit to going a little over the top with the joke about not voting (although it was just a suggestion not a totalitarian demand). That was brought to my attention so I went ahead and removed it prior to your comment, along with some of the other stuff that was potentially antagonistic. I hope that improves the situation for you. Regardless of what you believe about climate change, I think we can agree that many people see it as a problem, yet despite a broad public desire to do something about it, very little of significant effect is actually being done (whether or not there's anything about which to be done).

    I like this section because it's a good metaphor for how Phelddagrif operates - a long term, vague problem that is almost always outweighed by more immediate concerns and personal gain. I'm not really aware of anything else that compares to the effect quite as nicely, so I'd like to leave it in. It's just a single section in a very large primer though - I hope you can see past it.

    I am glad people are actually reading all the way through this stuff, though. Sometimes this primer feels like shouting into the wind.


    Please do not censor yourself because some people like this guy had his feelings hurt, please do not let this kind of people reap your right to say whatever you want.

    They can think and say that global warming is fake and I don't care about their ignorance, I won't ask them to not talk their thoughts, and I will not hold my thoughts because some people have their feelings hurt for those.

    So,
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • 1

    posted a message on Perspectives on playing combos in a casual meta
    Disclaimer: This post is to gather opinions, I have my owns that I will share at the start of the post but maybe your insights would make me think different or not.

    My playgroup is casual, but for being casual I don't mean very low power decks, we play Atraxa, praetor's voice, narset, enlightened master, Marsil, the pretender, Breya, etherium shaper,Alesha, who smiles at death, Zur, the enchanter, and a very long very well know busted commanders I won't list just for sake of brevity.

    There is a player that complaints about the possibility of someone winning with a combo, I don't mean a turn 3 or 5 combo, I mean a Turn 14-16 combo where for instance a player casting Sanguine bond and Exquisite blood plus gaining one life ends the game in a infinite damage or a turn 8-10 Felidar sovereign.

    He argues that he does not like that you can win 'effortless' or 'out of nowhere' and I don't know how to make him understand my point of view which is the following.

    1. He likes to play heavy creature bases decks, sometimes with counters, sometimes tribal, sometimes graveyard, etc. I just don't. I like other kinds of decks (mostly control decks)

    2. It is not true that if a win with a turn 12-15 combo I won 'out of nowhere' or effortless because it is very hard for a control deck to survive long enough in a 4 man table where normally you will be the first in being attacked because of many reasons including that is easy.

    From my perspective this is how most games in our group are played (Imagine I start because I won the roll)

    I start developing slowly my board turn a a turn, just with lands and mana rocks, after turn 3-4 I can start developing my actual game plan so I can begin casting some artifacts or enchants that will drive me through it.

    From turn 3 normally I eat every single attacks of the playgroup (creatures) except if he attack and develop my board or I am just in the weakest spot and I am just being ignored because they won't considered me a threat.

    From turn 4 I may starting board-wiping (if I am the focus of the other attacks) or playing some stax things like Propaganda, Ghostly prison or even Delaying shield.

    Maybe I can convince someone to focus on other player and I can starting spending some mana in my turn developing my game while holds answers in case of need

    The last game I won, that was a very hard one, I casted 6 boardwipes (game ended in turn 16-18 I think), while I didn't won with an actual combo (I won because I had 40 cards in my hand, sanguine bond and venser's journal) I think I may actually could won by dropping a felidar or exquisite blood and It would be the same, I worked for the win, I stand against 3 opponents that gave me no truce, it is so bad to win with an infinite combo in turn 16? why did he sees it as 'unfun' or 'unfair'.


    a. What do you think about it overall?
    b. Do you think winning with a combo in turn 10-18 is unfair or unfun?
    c. Do you think control/combo player doesn't 'work their way' to the victory (remember I am talking about casual stuff, no T3 combos, no deck with black tutors)
    d. Do you think winning with a combo in T10-18 is 'out of nowhere'?

    I would love to read your opinions in the matter

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 1

    posted a message on Do you think Felidar Sovereign is an unfair card?
    I submit a poll so I can share the results with my playgroup
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Primer]] [PRIMER] Kaalia of the Vast
    I understand, but..... when I play 1vs1 my standard non-stax list works perfectly fine and my winrate is absurd even when I do not use any combo or hand disruption effects that would be advisable for a more competitive 1v1 EDH decklist.

    The thing is that in multiplayer I am always the "enemy" or at least is my perception, it seems the other players seems to think that even 1 creature kaalia have is too much, so even if I hardcast something I am being targeted.

    In my playgroup when the table is 3-4 players, normally the agro is going to the people with more creature presense, I wont go full STAX because is not my game, but some cards as the abolitioner, the grifin, the orbs, the aven mindcensor or the enchants seems to be good enought to help me protect my plan, with or without kaalia.

    EDIT: I will try to explain myself better, in a 3-4 ppl table I am often in the situation where I have Kaalia and one fattie or just one fattie.

    I play things like apostle's blessing and faith's shield because I can protect my stuff from removal, not always kaalia but avavyn or iona are my main targets.

    My plan adding some stax cards is to help me develop my plan with more assurance, we dont have counterspells, so the way we protect our plan is by counting in our opponents bad draws or having some reacting spells like the ones I use.

    war's toll makes the opponents get tapped if they play anything, so, you want to play a removal on kaalia? ok, but all your lands will be tapped, if you drop a dude.. all your lands will be tapped, so I will be able to cast freely my stuff.

    Stranglehold is a removal bait, I choose all day they spend the removal for enchants on it rather than my dragon tempest or necropotence, not to mention that the effect is asymetrical so THEY dont get to search in libraries and not take extra turns.

    Rule of law is another dont mess with me kind of card, Kaalia doesnt need to cast more than one spell each turn, is shuts off combos, and many threats.

    The birds are just awesome in the 3cmc, they shuts tutors, fetchs and triggered abilities like acidic slime in a instant speed , and because they are creatures they will be acting as another removal bait and if they dont, wel they are still flying 2/1 bodies.

    Linvala, keeper of silence and angel of finality are both awesome flyers too, for a cheap 4cmc they give us a GREAT value, and they are 3/4 in the right creature types.

    The orbs also gives us 'tranquility' I want my opponents to spend their mana developing their game plan but not disturbing mine, so if they can untap only a single land each turn they will be forced to think carefully what they do with the mana, will they hold mana for removal or they will be casting their general?
    Posted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Primer]] [PRIMER] Kaalia of the Vast
    Well, I have been playing Kaalia as my main EDH for a couple of months, my meta is wide, there are combos but most of my friends just hate combo decks and refuse to play against them, so in my LGS if you play some deck that has as main moto a combo you will be set aside from certain tables.

    My Kaalia deck has some combos but they are not the kind of offensive combos my playmates dislike so I am tolerated Smile

    I by myself dont like combos very much either but I added them in order to stand a chance in a multiplayer table, normally in 1vs1 games I do very well even against some control decks, but in a multiplayer enviroment with heavy control or annoying things like marchesa, mereen, atraxa, etc. Kaalia's life is a pain.

    So I will share my decklist looking for some advice on how to improve it to get better results in a 3-4 man table against control, atraxa, mereen, nekusar, etc.


    1x Mountain
    4x plains
    4x Swamp
    1x Cavern of souls
    1x Tainted field
    1x Isolated chapel
    1x Dragonskull summit
    1x Sacred foundry
    1x Battlefield forge
    1x Caves of koilos
    1x tainted peak
    1x piranha marsh
    1x city of brass
    1x Command tower
    1x Arid mesa
    1x Bloodstained mire
    1x Marsh flats
    1x Tectonic edge
    1x Godless shrine
    1x Hall of the bandit lord
    1x Sulfurous springs
    1x Blood crypt
    1x Bojuka bog
    1x Boseiju, who shelters all
    1x Shivan Gorge
    1x Blackcleave cliffs
    1x Clifftop retreat
    1x Maze of ith
    1x Homeward path

    Mortify
    wear/tear
    Vyndicate
    Path to exile
    Anguished unmaking
    Terminate
    Dreadbore


    Read the bones
    Necropotence


    Earnest fellowship
    Apostle's blessing
    Faith's shield

    Armageddon
    Wrath of god
    Merciless eviction
    Cataclysm


    Enlightened tutor
    Tithe (I will replace it with Land tax)


    Dragon tempest
    Swiftfoot boots
    Lightning greaves

    Good stuff
    Defense grid (He will be replaced for great abolitioner)
    Sensei's divining top (AKA the reason I sstarted play EDH)
    Mimic vat (Candidate to leave the team, maybe for an MIraculous recovery)
    Umezawa's JItte

    Graveyard plays: 7
    Buried alive
    Entomb
    Reanimate
    Exhumate
    Necromancy
    Animate dead
    Unburial rites

    Mana rocks: 6
    Mana vault
    Orzhov signet
    Boros signet
    Sol ring
    Talisman of indulgence
    Rakdos signet

    Magical dudes: 26
    Restoration angel
    Kiki-jiki, the mirror breaker
    Bloodgift demon
    Avacyn, angel of hope
    Baneslayer angel
    Gisela, blade of goldnight
    Utvara hellkite
    Sire of insanity
    Steel hellkite
    ANgel of despair
    IOna, shield of emeria
    Worldgorger DRagon (yes, the combo)
    Dragon mage
    Thundermaw hellkite
    Rakdos the defiler (my 1vs1 hero of the day)
    Admonition angel
    Rune-scarred demon
    ANgel of serenity
    Harvester of souls
    Master of cruelties (OP as hell even without Kaalia)
    Balefire dragon




    Sometimes I just think 100 cards are to few, I want to add other stuffs, matbe 1-2 extra board wipes (Damnation and Planar cleansing), sometimes I think my card draw is just too low, sometimes I feel I need a Reverberate but sometimes I just miss the 2nd red source

    In a 1vs1 this decklist works really fine, but in a 4ppl table.... is a pain

    I would love to read some advices on how to improve it and also on how to play some things, maybe you have some 'tricks' you want to share against blue mages Smile

    Thanks a lot in advance for your help
    Posted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
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