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  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Hi Vishnakuttar,

    I didn't mean any offense by the section, although I'll admit to going a little over the top with the joke about not voting (although it was just a suggestion not a totalitarian demand). That was brought to my attention so I went ahead and removed it prior to your comment, along with some of the other stuff that was potentially antagonistic. I hope that improves the situation for you. Regardless of what you believe about climate change, I think we can agree that many people see it as a problem, yet despite a broad public desire to do something about it, very little of significant effect is actually being done (whether or not there's anything about which to be done).

    I like this section because it's a good metaphor for how Phelddagrif operates - a long term, vague problem that is almost always outweighed by more immediate concerns and personal gain. I'm not really aware of anything else that compares to the effect quite as nicely, so I'd like to leave it in. It's just a single section in a very large primer though - I hope you can see past it.

    I am glad people are actually reading all the way through this stuff, though. Sometimes this primer feels like shouting into the wind.

    Please do not censor yourself because some people like this guy had his feelings hurt, please do not let this kind of people reap your right to say whatever you want.

    They can think and say that global warming is fake and I don't care about their ignorance, I won't ask them to not talk their thoughts, and I will not hold my thoughts because some people have their feelings hurt for those.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from DirkGently »

    Ok, so Conqueror's Galleon.

    I think galleon is kind of a litmus test for playing the deck. Because it's absolutely a powerful card. And it can absolutely win you games. When I was running it (in multiple decks) it frequently became "ok, well, the right play here is to recur this board wipe...again...and then destroy all your stuff...again...and then I have to replay my commander so I can eventually end this game..."

    It slows the game down to a crawl, basically, a miserable crawl with all the focus on you, where you're going to win but it's going to take forever, and at the end people will not be thinking "huh, how weird, that game had so many powerful nasty things happening, but at the end it came down to just a derpy hippo beating face after doing nothing much all game, isn't commander funny?" No, they'll be thinking "Well, that Phelddagrif deck LOOKS innocent enough, but eventually it's going to pull off some lockdown combo so you'd better smash it when you've got half a chance."

    So Conqueror's galleon is a sweet card, but it's not a card that fits with what we're trying to do. It's a card that fits into a normal control deck, one that's fine with becoming the threat and intends to do so when trying to win the game. Our goal is to avoid ever being the threat, right up until the game is over. Ideally, even when it's 1v1, your opponent should look like the favorite to an outside observer. Otherwise our opponents won't want to get into a 1v1 against you, and might try to eliminate you before the 1v1 game.

    Yopu have conviced me about galleon, I will play it only in my Oloro deck, seems like a perfect fit for the endgame (Oloro is a 4/5)

    Edit (to avoid double post)

    I am imagining this game

    Turn 1 - Land and go (for every player)
    Turn 2 - Land and go (maybe 1 player casts a spell and 2 a 1/1 or 2/2)
    Turn 3 - Land and go (I get 3 damage because I cant block amd I play blue, then there are a bunch of dorks in the table)
    Turn 4 - Land and go (I get 7-10 more damage and people gets more dudes / spells)
    Turn 5 - Land and play my Comander (saving a blue to bounce, people stops atacking because now there is a 4/4 bloquer unless they have much bigger stuff)
    Turn 6 - ????
    Turn 7 - Profit

    By turn 6 I still have 7 cards in hand, and if I miss a single LD I will be forced to discard unless of course I have spent some spells before.. but.... all our spells are counters and removal so , how do you normally play those first 6 turns?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Thanks a lot for your input, please take in consideration that I am actually building the deck, I haven-'t really tried yet so I may be wrong in several statements

    Quote from DirkGently »
    Sure, I can give your list a quick look.

    Dispel is debatable. Not definitely wrong, but I'd only include it if you're in a pretty heavy counterspell meta where you'll have to win a counter war to block someone's wincon. If that's you, though, go ahead and keep it in. If it's not, though, I usually prefer more flexibility in my counters.

    My meta is blue heavy, not counterspell heavy, I don't use dispel in any of my decks, but because this deck has 15+ countespells It is just another option, but I will considered it as a possible cut.

    Quote from DirkGently »

    Turn to frog is too combat-dependent imo. If you try to block the creature they could just use removal on phelddagrif and force a bounce, and then their creature lives. I'd put in something more reliable, like crib swap for example.

    Hushwing Gryff is double trouble. It's a creature so our board wipes will kill it, it can absorb removal that we'd rather was pointed at our opponents, and even if it survives it's creating a scenario where your opponents may be motivated to kill you to prevent it impeding their plans in an ongoing way. I'd cut it in an instant.

    Mystic Snake is a pretty weak counter imo since it's overcosted by 2 for a body we don't need and can't really use outside of chump blocking. It's not terrible or anything but I'd prefer something else, personally.

    Selfless Squire is a fun card but I don't think I'd use it. Again, it gives a target for removal when we'd normally present none. Not terrible but 3 fogs is too many imo.

    Turn to frog is bad, for me is a proxy for rapid hybridization and/or Reality Shift (both cards I don't have yet)

    Mystic Snake, maybe Ill just replace it with dissolve

    Hushwing Gryff has won me games out of nowhere, but maybe he does not have a spot here, I will keep it for a time to see how it goes

    Selfless Squire: you are right, a 4cmc fog does not worth the slot.

    Sakura-tribe Elder I spend a bit of space in the guide on ramp - we don't really need it. We aren't ramping TO anything. One land per turn is plenty. As such, steve doesn't have much of a role in the deck. Doubly so for cultivate, Rampant Growth, and Kodama's Reach. Cut them all and add more lands instead. 38 is too few imo, I like over 40 myself but 40 would be as low as I'd go in most metas.

    I like the idea of getting those for co,or fixing, but I will try them out and add lands up to 40, you are right that we need no ramp

    I also don't think you need 3 neutralization removals (narco, lignify, deep freeze). Usually you need none. They're totally unnecessary. You should try to steer the game in such a way that you'll be 1v1ing the opponent who you can most easily handle, which shouldn't necessitate the use of such a card. BUT in some games you don't have full control of the game, or maybe the weakest deck has a commander that's hard to handle despite the rest of the deck being weaker. For commanders that either generate enormous value if left in play for any length of time (i.e. mayael) or who generate enormous value even when countered or removed by normal means (i.e. maelstrom wanderer). In those cases, neutralizing the commander in a permanent way can be the only way to keep control of the game long enough to win. That said, the neutralizers you've got already are weak because they leave the target as a (non-indestructible) creature so your board wipes will put their commander back in the command zone. So maybe you need 3 to be able to keep it locked down, idk. But I'd try to at least cut 1.

    Theese are replacement cards for darksteel mutation, imprisonment in the moon and song of the dryads wich I still dont have yet.

    My meta is full of "nasty" commanders, narset, mairsil, alesha and a long etc. So I may need to neutralize those

    Steel of the Godhead is pretty random. Doesn't make much sense for the deck - Phelddagrif is great, in part, because he can bounce to hand so easily. Strapping him up with auras kind of negates this benefit - and anyway, it doesn't do anything useful for us. If you want lifegain, run pulse of the fields or sphinx's revelation.

    I definitevly would run pulses, Ill switch steal for sphinx revelation as you suggested

    Conqueror's Galleon I've experimented with and found it to be too threatening for what we're trying to do.

    I know, I read all your posts about it, but I need to try it, it is just too awesome, maybe he doesn't not have a spot here but maybe for my OLoro,

    Land-wise I'd cut treva's ruins and reliquary tower. Reliquary tower I talk about in the guide so read that. Trevas is just bad imo. We want to play a land almost every turn. Setting ourselves back just for fixing is bad news. I like the karoo lands from ravnica block, though. They work just fine since they don't slow us down long-term and they give us a free extra card/man

    I haven't thought about karoo lands, I never play those, but it may very be worth the try, I need the color fixing

    Thanks for your input, Ill let you know how it went after I play a couple of games with the list and your suggestions
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

    This post is awesome, thank you for the excellent work you have share with us in these 6 pages of topic.

    I have red a couple of times this post last week, because I am actually building my own version of the deck following your recomendations because I think this deck could be 'what I am looking for'

    I tried (and succeed) build a non oppressive, non combo focuses control deck that would win most of the time (in my playgroup), because the deck will rarely win before turn 20, would never have a turn 4-8 combo, wont tax people, won't counter everything, won't play rule of law or enter the battlefield tapped and friends I thought no one would be upset if the deck wins... but I was wrong with that.

    Propaganda, Aurification and other non aggressive pillowfort cards will aggro everyone in the table very soon, people will krosan grip any of my enchants and complaint because they have no answer at turn 20 to be able to deal with solemnity+ Glacial chasm

    So, I decided it is time to build a new deck, and I want a deck that can be perceived as fair, with no combos and with a win ratio over 50%, and it may very be this one.

    I like the 'counter wall', the heavy spot removal and the boardwipes retaliation

    In my actual control deck I have 9 boardwipes, in my pheldy I am starting at 12 and will be increased to 15 when I am able to get another copy of cyclonic rift, tragic arrogance and evacuation.

    I like the 'I have no permanents' strategy so we are able to play boardwipes like hour of revelation that normally I would not play

    Now, I have a prototype here

    It is incomplete, the lands needs some fix (incluing arch), there are some cards that I have in the list because I don't have yet the 'real ones', for example I have deep freeze in the list because I don't have yet a darksteel mutation, narcolepsy will leave whenever I can get a imprisonment in the moon .

    Besides those cards, I need to make room for 2 more counterspells 3 boardwipes and 2 more spot removal spells so I will apreciate if you can take a peek at my list and point me out which cards are the 'best candidates to go'

    Thanks in advance
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Bouncing Etrata, the Silencer

    If I have Etrata, the Silencer she atacks, and deals damage, I exile the third creature, can I bounce her back and avoid shuffling her but still being able to make a player lose the game?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Actually, I see that there is basically only pillow-fort and removal cards in your deck…

    My Oloro deck was "designed for this"

    1. Be able to win consistently in 3v1 situations
    2. Do not play fast combos
    3. Do no make the game unbearable for others (Stax or MLD)

    1. Be able to win consistently in 3v1 situations

    I am in the "my playgroup targets me first" situation most of the time so I wanted a deck to "hold the pressure" and win.

    All that pillow forth cards such as propaganda , no mercy, aurification, etc allows me to skip the damage untill I can build my wincons

    2. Do not play fast combos

    Because I do not play creatures I can only win with combos but the ones I included are not fast and not easy and I dont have many tutors for the pieces so there is no T4 combo

    3. Do no make the game unbearable for others (Stax or MLD)

    My deck plays what I call "fair control", as long as you do not atack me you won't see any removal from me to your creatures, I won't boarwipe if no one is atacking me and I won't counterspell anything you play unless it is something extremy OP or annoying to me like havoc festival or I need to counter war to protect my wincons

    Quote from Jusstice »
    If you were in my group, we would target you on sight just for delaying the game this badly.

    My playgroup does not like "fast decks" , we dont have an explicit "no fast combos rules" allowed but it is ubnderstood for us that some no-nos are infinite turns and fast combos.

    The faster deck in my playgroup would be my Edgar Markov that has won games at T6 with combat damage only and even there some people booed for the lack of turns.

    So, it is true that my deck takes the game very long, my wincons now are

    1. Approach of the second sun
    2. Luminarch ascension
    3. Sanguine bond + exquisite blood
    4. Sanguine bond + venser's journal + a lot of cards in hand
    5. Sidri, galvanic genius + aetherflux reservoir

    I had other but I tok them off because people was booing on them and because they are harder to do then they seems (felidar sovereign and test of endurance)

    Off this topic but in relation to your deck, Phyrexian Unlife is another good one. Pros, it works well with Oloro since you can get your life back up above positive easily. Cons, doesn’t have any effect until you actually get to zero or less.

    Thanks I will give it a thought

    Quote from Lithl »

    As for Humility vs. Aurafication or No Mercy, the big difference is creatures that don't need to attack to do their job. My Trinket Mage or Seedborn Muse doesn't care about your Aurafication, but Humility is a big problem for them.

    As I said, I don't want to interfere too much with the rest of the tables games (unless theyre game is killing me) so I want you to have your Trinket Mage and get your artifact I just want to survive long enough to build my wincons
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Achievement unlocked - Oloro Ageless ascetic 3vs1
    I have made some improvements in the deck with awesome results winning 2 of 2 games in a 5 man table (link in my sig)

    Aurification proved to be better than I thought so was Dawn of hope
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Quote from Hermes_ »
    Quote from Alexev »

    In my deck solemnity is there just for glacial chasm and delaying shield I know it can be a hate piece for some decks but it is not what the carrd is there for and I will rarely cast it unless I have one of the others in the field or in my hand

    omg..I didn't know about the interaction with delaying shield *goes off to add it to wish list*

    In my deck delaying shield is good even without solemnity because commander damage is a real thing, so I can have 300+ life and 21 commander damage will kill me so, even if we dont have solemnity this enchant prevents us all the commander damage but with solemnity is another glacial chams like effect
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Quote from vandertroll »
    Quote from MRdown2urth »
    No Decree of Silence?!

    I'm guessing that he doesn't want to get lynched Grin

    Decree of Silence is too opressive for what I am trying to do with Oloro, my deck is durdle control, I try not to tax people or prevent their game unless their game is killing me or my stuff.

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Sometimes the lower-powered card is surprinsignly better, simply because it's less threathening. No one want to waste a removal on a "bad" card, usually if you have to do it you waint until the card is really dangerous, not right away. And sometimes, when you decide to act it's too late.

    Solemnity and Glacial Chasm are also Stax cards, and Solemnity has that "Why are you playing that?" effect, which makes experienced players nervous.

    In my deck solemnity is there just for glacial chasm and delaying shield I know it can be a hate piece for some decks but it is not what the carrd is there for and I will rarely cast it unless I have one of the others in the field or in my hand
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Quote from MRdown2urth »
    I like that it accomplished your goal. I also think people will “like” seeing it more than a similar card of yours, No Mercy, so that’s a plus. (Maybe I just get a lot of hate for that card.)

    No mercy its seemed as 'worst' threat for opponents but accomplished the same result, what is the difference of you don't attacking me to avoid be turned into a wall and avoid getting destroyed?

    From my deck perspective I found the 'turn in to a wall' effect like the same of destroy because all I want is to dodge attacks and point them otherwise

    But you are right, people will hate no mercy a lot more than aurification but a lot less than Humility for sure
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    I have an Oloro deck (link in my sig) and I am always trying something new in order to make it more fun, more reliable and more fair (without giving away my target winratio)

    Every time I played Humility the table booed at me, and from that point every single 1/1 they have will try to kill me and they will be focusing hard to remove the enchant.

    My Oloro deck is a durdle non stax deck so I don't want to be taxing or annoying people, I just want them to let me be (just ignore me)

    But.. that never happend so the list must have a lot of pillowforth options and humility was one of them.

    Last night I tried switching Humility for Aurification , both have the same cmc, I am surprised by the result and I won one of the games just for that card.

    Disclaimer: I know Humility has more raw power

    I played Aurification in a 5 man table with 2 aggro players and 2 aggro/control players plus me, I played the card and this happen

    1. People didn't booed (they just consider it annoying but not a threat)
    2. People stop attacking me and start pointing each other
    3. Because of point 2, people started some wars among them
    4. I was able to gain some time and save my counterspells and answers for better times
    5. They killed each other utill 1 aggro player was in a low life total, the agro control player was at 220 life (yes 220 because he had a huge lifelinker)
    6. The huge lifelinker tried to kill me but I chumbplock with Hushwing Gryff
    7. The aggro player at low life died first because I had next aGlacial chasm so noone can hurt me

    8. In my next turn I got Solemnity and Glacial chasm was at 3 counters
    9. I play Venser's journal and I had 5 cards in my hand so from now On I had a soft lock because I will gain more life each turn that I had to pay for the chasm
    10. after a couple of turn the last player understood the lock and concede

    I loved how the card worked, It was just as I wanted, people didn't see it as a huge threat and it avoid me a lot of damage while pointing people to attack each other

    What are your thoughts about this?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Suggestions to make "semi group hug" deck

    I am looking for Commander suggestions for a new deck

    I am considering Zedruu the Greathearted but it does not really have to be it.

    The goal is "team up", picking one ally to help with goodstuff but with some things to keep it in check to avoid betrayals, I wish to be able to give goodies but also be able to teke them back (with homeward path effects)

    I want to give good stuff that makes that opponent love me, that gives them an advantage against the other players but not against me.

    Any ideas on how to make such a deck?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on How good are these utility lands?
    As most people here had told you, it is always a meta call, I can talk about these ones:

    Reliquary tower: I have it in my Oloro deck because there is no single game I dont end with 20+ more cards in hand, and this land is just onef my many "do not have hand size" effects.

    If your deck is built for good draw draw, then it is a must, if not, well, not

    Homeward path: I play it in my Edgar Markov deck and in Kaalia of the vast: both decks needs this card because Insurrection is a thing and every single kaalia creature is a target for stealing so, it is a must.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on The right way to play
    Quote from schweinefett »

    But yea, one weird thing i've noticed in the OP's description is about players being finalists. in a 4 player pod, the average is that 1 wins, 3 loses. So if anyone's win % is higher than 25%, that's good. I'm not saying that EDH is a balanced game (it's not), but the fact that some players are always a finalist seems a bit off to me.

    In a 4 man pod, 1 win, 3 losses, but in my pod, normally the game ends in a 1v1 fight, so I call a finalist to the last one to die
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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