As most people here had told you, it is always a meta call, I can talk about these ones:
Reliquary tower: I have it in my Oloro deck because there is no single game I dont end with 20+ more cards in hand, and this land is just onef my many "do not have hand size" effects.
If your deck is built for good draw draw, then it is a must, if not, well, not
Homeward path: I play it in my Edgar Markov deck and in Kaalia of the vast: both decks needs this card because Insurrection is a thing and every single kaalia creature is a target for stealing so, it is a must.
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Nov 30, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from schweinefett »
But yea, one weird thing i've noticed in the OP's description is about players being finalists. in a 4 player pod, the average is that 1 wins, 3 loses. So if anyone's win % is higher than 25%, that's good. I'm not saying that EDH is a balanced game (it's not), but the fact that some players are always a finalist seems a bit off to me.
In a 4 man pod, 1 win, 3 losses, but in my pod, normally the game ends in a 1v1 fight, so I call a finalist to the last one to die
Nov 29, 2018Posted in: Multiplayer Commander DecklistsIntroduction
This is a full aggro vampire tribal decklist
The goal of the deck is beating faces up with an army of buffed vampires as early as possible giving no quarter to anyone.
This deck needs a lot of card draw
We will be casting low cmc spells every turn, ideally we will want this thing to happen
Turn 1 - Land + 1 vamp and a token Turn 2 - Land + 2 vamps + 2 tokens and 2dmg to one opponent Turn 3 - Land + Shared Animosity+ 30 damage to the opponent (wich can be lethal)
In this scenario a T4 boardwipe will likely happen and we will need to rebuild as fast as we can, so we need cheap card draw, this is my top selection and why
Night's Whisper, Sign in Blood: cheap early card draw, after a T4 boardwipe we can (if lucky) resolve sign in blood and get 2-4 bodies i the table again to continue the pressure
Skullclamp: is just nuts
Dusk Legion Zealot: for 2 mana puts 2 bodies o the table and replaces itself, not our best spell but cool enought to deserve the spot
Middle cost draw
Read the Bones: The scry 2 is very powerfull, card selection + card draw worths that extra 1cmc
Necropotence: Just nuts, being able to refill your hand every turn at cost of life is great
Phyrexian Arena: Most people dislike it because it takes 2 turns to match the effect of a sign in blood and cost an extra mana, but if it sticks, the value is exponential
Erebos, God of the Dead: this is a Greed on a stick, is true that the ability costs 1 extra mana but he is a 5/7 indestructible beater while active and the ability of stopping opponents to gain life is not to be dimissed
Champion of Dusk: he is a 4/4 for 5 that in the worst case scenario gives us 2 cards, so for 5, we get a fattie, a token and 2 cards.
This is a very proactive deck, so we dont have a lot of tools to interact with our opponents stuff, have selected this toolkit
Single target creature removal
Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares: Exile is way better than destroy, the downsides of the spells are insignificant for EDH
Single target versatile removal
Anguished Unmaking: Exiles target everything but lands for just 3 mana and 3 life
Utter End: Pretty much like anguished but 1cmc more and no life loss
Both removals are silver bullets, they can get rid of almost anything that annoy us for good at instant speed
Multi target/mass removal
Merciless Eviction: is our all star multi target removal, is wrath that exiles creatures or, enchantments, or artifacts or even Planeswalkers so is a keypiece and the king of versatility in this removal toolkit
Return to Dust: sometimes we need to remove some artifacts and/or enchants, this card allos us to do it at instant speed choosing one artifact or enchant, or we can use it at sorcery speed and get rid of up to two enchants or artifacts, again, the keyword is versatility, we prefer cards that gives us choices overall even if the cmc is higer than others
Vandalblast: this is quite a punch in the neck for our opponents if resolved at the right time
Creature removal on creatures
We play a couple removals on a stick, they are not great but they can do the job when needed
Captivating Vampire: for 3 he is a lord and if we tap 5 untapped vampires we can steal forever another creature of our opponent control even if captivating dies, so it is pretty good
Patron of the Vein: he costs 6 mana, but he is a 4/4 flier that when ETB destroys another creature our opponents control, and reads that every creature destroyed dor our opponents is exiled instead (remember exile>destroy), and for each creature destoyed he give every vampire +1+1.
Having ramp is always good, our deck has low cmc so we do not really need hard ramp, but there are some rocks worths the slot
Sol Ring: Nothing to say, just a great rock, in this deck though unless I also have a signet or something I probably would prefet T1 vampire rather than T1 sol ring
Rakdos Signet , Orzhov Signet and Boros signet : Ramp+fixing
Ramp on lands
Cabal Coffers: Because this build is really black and I also run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, the coffers allows us for a rerally good ramp most of the time
Lands are powerfull resources, we dont run too many utility lands but someones are required
Bojuka Bog: Exiling a graveyard is always good against certain matchups
Homeward Path: Nothing others more to a creature based deck that people stealing our stuff, play your own dudes man!! well, with this lands we can retrieve our crew back when needed
Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, we are nbot specially greedy on mana, but we do have some fun interactions that needs that extra mile this two cards can give us (we will talk about those in the wincons section)
Vault of the Archangel: The ability is kind of expensive to use (5 mana) but in the irght situation is nuts an army of deathtouch lifelinkers are a serious deal
Cavern of Souls: We have a lot of dudes, so we should mind too much about people countering them, but they do, so we can use this to be able to rsolve our stuff
Path of Ancestry: more than 1/2 of our non land cards are creatures, so we will be using the scry 1 a lot, ths land gives us the color we need and card selection in the same card, really good for tribal decks
Shennanigans and sinergies
Land Tax + Scroll Rack
The "combo" (is actually more a strong synergy rather than a combo) is this: 1. You have Land Tax in play along Scroll Rack
2. You fetch 3 basic lands in your upkeep 3. Activate Scroll Rack separating those 3 lands, so you draw 3 cards and put those lands on top of your library 4. As long as one of your opponents still have more lands than you you will repeat the process of drawing 4 cards a turn
The coolest thing about this "combo" is that the cards are strong enough on their own, so if you don't get both cards in play but one, then you can actually make a good use of it anyway
I have to confess I just love Land tax on its own, If you have one white source in your hand, land tax and 5 other spells you are good to go (kind of).
We are playing an aggro deck, so we win by beating faces and for that we need dudes and combat phases, because one combat phase is not enough sometimes to kill our prey even if its wounded we have this tools
Aggravated Assault: It cos us 3 to cast and 5 to use it at sorcery speed, but mid/late game we can get really nasty with it
We could also use Relentless Assault or World at war which are great cards on their own, I just have not found a place in this deck for it, but it may work for you
We love our crew, but we must be realistic, other people (our opponents) may not love our dudes like we do, so they may attempt to wipe the board from time to time.
Edgar precon came with the super awesome Teferi's Protection so I will assume you are playing and don't need an explanation for it, but is not the only tool we can use.
Boros Charm: We have this here mainly for the choice of "indestructible" but sometimes the other options are great, giving double strike to a very buffed Bloodcrazed Paladin is endgame or 4 damage to a player or PW are great situational options too.
Reconnaissance: Imagine this scenario, you attack with 5 creatures, 2 of them are blocked, you can remove those 2 and untap them to avoid damage.
But, if every creature you send connects, is even better, because creatures are considered "attackers" until EOT, so after the damage is dealt you can use this card ability and get all your creatures untapped, ready to protect his lord
If we get to mid/late game and nobody have died we are failing our task.
Also we may get controlled, or something, but normally, at MID/LATE our opponents should be at very low life and this is where we got his presents
Exsanguinate: this card is better if you can generate infinite mana, which we can't , but we can make a pretty good use for it, imagine turn 10 with Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and 7 random lands and zero mana rocks. you activate the coffers and get 10 mana, then you have 7 extra to use, so 17 mana means 15 damage each and 45 life gain for you, that should be enough to kill at least one opponent and put us to the top of the food chain once more.
Torment of Hailfire This is my favorite, imagine the same scenario that last card, so we have those 17 manas at T10, if we can resolve this, then is game over for most people.
Torment for 15 (15+2) means every player needs to pay 45 life or sacrifice 15 non land permanents or discard 15 cards or any combination of those they can.
In all these situations we are talking about T10 with no mana rocks, but the things can get really nasty of we do better and later.
Because of these 2 cards I am thinking adding Pyroblast or Red Elemental Blast, wich is perfect for the counter war, but because blue has Cyclonic Rift, Evacuation and stuff like that, we may use this in those situations too
With 20 of our 29 creatures costing 1-3 manas (11 of which costs 1-2), it is not unrealistic or far fetched to have 4-6 bodies by turn 3
Shared Animosity : Make our combat great again
Turn 1 - Blood Crypt + Falkenrath Gorger + Vampire token
Turn 2 - Plains + Legion Lieutenant + free Vampire token
Our first attack deals 5 damage to a player leaving him at 35 if he doesn't loss any life before
Turn 3 - Swamp + Shared Animosity
Our second attack deals 6+5+5+5 which means 21 damage getting that player at lethal range with 14 life total
And if instead of the Lord, we played 2 1cmc vampires, then the damage would be 7+5+5+5+5+5+5 = 32 damage so our first victim ended up at 3 life total, just one hit of any creature and we can pick our other victim.
We are talking about an attack we can make at T3 so a board wipe is nor expected until T4-T5
Buffy the vampire buffer
Buffing our dudes is a good thing, and buffing them for cheap is way better, we play some lords such as
Captivating Vampire, Legion Lieutenant, Drana, Liberator of Malakir (yes , she needs to connect for the buff but is worth it), Indulgent Aristocrat which transforms a 1/1 token in a permanent buff for our other vamps for just 2 manas, Metallic Mimic and a lot more, because our vampire lords are vampires they are never alone , they come with at least a 1/1 extra body to buff
I have added all the "valuable" cheap lords the only high cmc lords are just the broken ones such as Bloodline Keeper
Buffing our people with trinkets and magic
I am not going to talk about why I added Umezawa's Jitte in the deck, we are past that, I am going to talk about artifacts and enchants which are here to give our people the edge in the combat.
Stensia Masquerade, our dudes have 1st strike on attack and if they connect they get +1+1
Vanquisher's Banner an anthem effect with card draw attached to it, it worth the 5 cmc it has
Sword of Light and Shadow: Protection from the hard removal and +2+2, the life gain on connect is not bad but the ability to return a creature card from my gy to my hand just takes the blood cake
The actual decklist (the updatet version is i my signature)
Nov 29, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from CasualCalamity1 »I have thought about this a lot recently, and I am wondering if there is a dominant strategy among the three strategies mentioned by OP irrespective of the decks present at the table. Do you have a default attack pattern in EDH? What are your experiences?
I think it meta dependant, My playgroup does not like infinite combos very much, so while I do play some combos in my control decks, I do not play the "good ones" or the more competitive or solid ones, but I guess in other playgroups with no problem with those tings early combos can be the most played.
In my meta/pg we normally have a lot of tempo/midrange things abusing sinergies, Atraxa PW, Atraxa counters, Breya full artifacts and control (no combo), Sidisi tokens, Oloro full pillowfort, Markov full vampires/aggro, clerics tribal aggro, mono green animate lands, Marchesa in her both falovours including the stealing dudes one, Alesha, Narset (without extra turns) and a long etcetera.
Most of the decks are midrange/tempo with some doses of control (blue)
A few aggro decks normally tribal
A very few control decks
And a variety of weird things sometimes, chaos, Mairsil, the pretender, etc
My default atack pattern depends on wich deck I am playing
Oloro: I dont attack, I jst sit and see what happends, if some one annoys me I will help someone to kill that player or commit resources to annoy the player back. My goal/strat is to survive to be the last or comboing out.
Markov: I pick one player ang go for it, then a second, then the third, I have lost just 1 game with this strat so far (but to be fair I have play just a few games with edgar)
Nov 22, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Felidar Sovereign and Test of endurance are not exactly easy win conditions, you have to do a few things to get this to work. So too be honest your playgroup sounds like a bunch of babies.
Given that, it's going to be exactly the same reaction with Approach of the Second Sun. I can smell their baby salty tears already.
Well, they dislike those cards and one of them was very vocal about it, now when I play that deck it takes 20 turns to win or even to loose because of the lack of a "fast" wincon.
On a helpful note however cards that will help this strategy, Dig Through Time, Fact or Fiction, Fortune's Favor, Impulse.
You can even use Memory Lapse or Remand to counter the first one, to then cast it again for the win. Supreme Will is also an alternative counterspell you can run to help with Second Sun approach of digging deeper.
Thanks for those suggestions, I dont want to commit the deck to this wincon, I just asked if you see it as a "viable" endgame on its own, like the silver bullet that is wincat or test
I had a look at your deck in signature, and there are plenty of cards to cut for all of the above, because they are just strong cards on their own.
I would love to read those suggestions, I am always looking for cards to cut in order to add some others
Nov 21, 2018Hi, I have been playing a control deck for a while with good results.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
I tried several wincons such as Felidar Sovereign and Test of endurance , both are great finishers but my playgroup dislike those so I toke them out of my deck.
My playgroup also dislikes infinite turns, etc.
Now my deck has some narrows wincons
1. Sanguine Bond + exquisite blood: because I have not tutors other than enlightened tutor I cant rely on this combo (by the way I never won with this)
2.Aetherflux Reservoir to the face (I have won a couple of games with this one without the help of Sydri, Galvanic Genius wich I have but have not drew in any of my games)
3. Luminarch ascension: I have never ever won with this either, was fun to play but wont last
4. Elspeth, sun's champion: never ever had more than 6 soldiers in the table before she died
5. My last and favourite wincon is having 50 cards in hand with venser's journal and sanguine bond and deleting one at a time (happen once)
All those wincons needs a lot of time, after I tok away test of endurance and Felidar sovereign I won more than 50% of the time but always at turn 15+ (20 or even more) because my wincons needs so much mana or so much life total or just so much time.
I always miss those two cards (felidar and the test) when is turn 15+ people are tired and I am against the last opponent knowing I am going to win because I have a soft lock but it will take some turns.
So I wonder (and this is the topic of the thread) is Approach of the second sun worth playing to end the game fast enought without being perceived as "unfair" like those two other insta-win cards?
Nov 19, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Weebo »If everyone's deck is constructed according to format rules and is at an appropriate power level for the group, they're all good. There's no "right" strategy for an EDH game.
Actually that is precisely my point of view, MTG is a strategy game, everyone is his own straegyst and the "right way" for me is the way you feel is worth you more fun/wins/etc
Nov 19, 2018Help me out with a discussion that has arise in my playgroup.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Some players are "pointing each other" that the other one is "playing commander the wrong way" because of their respective playstyles.
These are their oppinions
Player 1: He thinks that in a table of 4, the damage has to be dealt evenly among each player, so there is a balance in the life totals and no one gets deleted early.
He likes playing midrange/tempo decks that normally wins with combat damage, He likes this strategy because is his way to win, when everyone is at lethal range he can "combo out" with a surprise attack and finish the game in 1-2 turns.
He is a god player, normally he has a big impact on the game
Player 2: He likes control decks, he likes politics and always tries to be the last man standing to be able to 1v1 the last player, he does that because he says that for a control deck is easier to win the 1v1 late game against almost any other non control deck, so he tries to survive to be the last.
Unless he has very bad draws he is always a finalist
Player 3: He likes aggro decks, his playstile is picking a victim and go for the thoath, he wins by combat damage only, sometimes he uses politics to get one player ignore him while he atacks one or two. He likes deleting playars one at a time or if his army is huge everyone at a time.
Normally if he dont win he does a pretty good job being a finalist
What do you think? wich one of this ways is "the right way"? is there a right way to play?
Nov 19, 2018I just played a couple more times with great results (50% winrate and being an all star every game)Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
This is the updated decklist https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-durdle-control/
Th only thing I may add is restoration specialist in exchange for blind obedience
BO is nice, but nnoys more my oppensdt that whats actually help me (at least in my meta), menwhile the resto can help me retrieve some enchanhts or artifacts I like to have but that are often focused by my opponents (propaganda, ghostly prision, Venser's journal)
Jul 26, 2018Alexev posted a message on Kaalia, Destroyer of Hope: Stax & Reanimator DecklistsThanks for your input.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I was trying mass discard effects because Kaalia (my build) is less worried about topdecking than my opponents, I can use some fatties in the GY and topdeck some reanimation spell, I can use some lands in the gy and topdeck the crucible of worlds I can use Unburial rites from the GY etc.
I have an old cpy of Cataclysm I used to run it in Kaalia but I droped it, maybe Ill give it another try
But if my opponents have cards in their hands they will use it against me. It is not a proven strategy, I am trying it out.
My table always focus on me when I play Kaalia, one of the players had told me that everytime I shufle the Kaalia he will attck me first, so it not a perception of mine.
My winrate with Kaalia is near 0% while my winrate with Oloro is 75%+ but somehow they fear more Kaalia
Jul 25, 2018Alexev posted a message on Kaalia, Destroyer of Hope: Stax & Reanimator DecklistsPosted in: Multiplayer Commander DecklistsQuote from benjameenbear »I'm needing some recommendations on tutors for this deck. Sarkhan's Triumph, while cool in its applications, is still a little narrow for what I want in a tutor. I'm tossing around the idea of Diabolic Intent, Tainted Pact, and Grim Tutor. The Intent doesn't seem to have enough early creature density to be really effective, so that's the weakest tutor effect I'm considering.
I wanted to know if there were any other opinions out there regarding tutors in WBR for a competitive decklist. Any ideas?
I think Diabolic intent is bad because we dont run that many creatures, tainted pact is great as long as you set up the deck correctly eich means you cannot have 2 cards with the same name, so no 2 copies of basics either.
Now that people in this post likes Kaalia multilayer I want to ask you something.
I love Kaalia and it was my very first "real" commander edh deck, I had fun in 1v1 but I still have problems in multi
Let me tell you why,
Winning or loosing is not a big issue (for me) but having fun is, and for me, having fun means having the chance to develop your plan
How my Edgard Markov deck works: I play somes dudes, combat, answers, etc. win or loose
How Kaalia works (in my meta): I shiffle my deck, everyone focus on me, by turn 4-6 I am at 5 life points, only if I can get a broken hand I can have my lady on the battlefield and do some stuff because people will always save their answers for her.
So, how is your meta experience?
Check this list for ideas: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-reanimator-combo/
May 24, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from MRdown2urth »lol Alexev gets his wish with Battlebond. So many top-tier reprints so far. Hopefully he buys a few boxes.
I k now at least I will be buygint every land tax I can get my hands on
May 8, 2018Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Burntgerbil »
Maybe you should take note and act on historical lows for cards like blood moon, flusterstorm and imperial recruiter and make the system work to your advantage.
I own the cards I want, and the ones I don't I can purchase them, the "system" won´t ever work on my advantage while people can't afford the cards to play what they want because of lacking reprints.
May 1, 2018Thank you very much to all that have answer me.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I have now a lot of cool suggestions from you and I have modified my deck according some of your advices, I love the idea of more card draw such as wheel of fate and even magus of the wheel
I cutted a lot of the cards you have suggested to cut and it helped me a lot for making room to others.
In this second version of my deck I am still not going for a 40 creature deck, but I think I have managed to make it a little more consistent with the help of all of you
I will try it in my playgroup and if the deck is not going the way I want I will give it a try to the 40 creature decklist.
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