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  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from Fr0sty711 »
    Quote from Alexev »

    Well, I have played my list (it is in my signature) a couple of times and this is my feedback:

    Decklist didn't work for me?

    EDIT: By mistake I wrote the wrong link, also my link in the sig has a typo, it was an extra / that it is now fixed, sorry
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Need help cutting cards for Yennet, Criptic sovereign
    I have modified my list and play-tested it.

    1st a note about my playgroup, we are not cEDH players, we don't like fast combo decks but we allow combos or instant wincons.

    We play powerful decks, powerful cards and and synergies, we play Narset, Breya, Atraxa, Oloro, Alesha and a long etcetera

    The deck as I have it now is very fun to play


    1. Card selection is a powerful effect
    2. We can play draw go most of the time and have some answers
    3. We can cheat powerful stuff and have the mana open to protect them


    1. While top manipulation is awesome and allows us to set up our next turns, this makes the deck as versatile as difficult to play we need to think several turns in advance and take our time to think.

    2. Yennet is weak early game, we rely heavily on our mass removal, 6 of wich are 5cmc or less

    3. We need time to build our game than other people, cheating an Ulamog, the infinite gyre is absolute worthless unless we can protect him at least a turn cycle.

    All this said now lets talk about some cards

    1. Ghostly prison : early game is nuts, late is worthless, so maybe I will swap it for another counterspell or a better replacement such as No mercy or Aurification that can actually prevent attacks

    2. Future sight: is nuts, just NUTS in this deck, until you try it you wont realize its full value

    3. Time warp and Temporal mastery: while I don't play too many extra turn effects, I think these two are just enough, time warp cost only 5 so we can resolve it after cheating a huge bomb to have an extra turn, and we have many ways to set up the miracle of TM


    The deck as is now, is fun to play, it is difficult for me to make more evaluations about cards to cut, replace, etc because I yet need to play more games, but so far it is really fun and challenging
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

    Well, I have played my list (it is in my signature) a couple of times and this is my feedback:

    1. The deck is really fun to play and it is not weak at all.

    One of my games I was severely mana screw to the point of not casting my general up to turn 8-9, in that game one layer toke me to 1 life and I almost won the game (I was the last to die and if we didn't had misread a card I would won probably).

    2. The decks is fun also because people cannot interact with your plan at all, you can win, you can loose but is high unlikely that anyone can 'mess with your plan'

    3. Par of the OP advice is 'play with gentle heart' and this is very easy to do with the hippo because... you have noting they can destroy, steal or shut down, we will normally win the counter-war or we will just remove the threats

    4. The hippo is big enough to chump-block most things and because he can bounce and give some one a card, many opponents will not waste a precious attack on a 'do nothing' if if they do, we can block or spot removal.

    5. Because we can give some presents to opponents, they will forget soon if we board-wipe or just did something wrong to them.

    Overall, a great deck, the one I have most fun so far

    So, we just play draw go, we see what people is doing
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Need help cutting cards for Yennet, Criptic sovereign
    Thanks everyone for the tips, this is my current decklist (untested)

    This is my current decklist, I have a couple pillowfort cards because my playgroup normally plays creature based decks, and If I do not have blockers I will always be the target of every single attack, So I need to boardwipe by turn 4-5 every single time

    1x Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign *CMDR*

    9x Island
    4x Plains
    3x Swamp
    1x Sea of clouds
    1x High market
    1x Drowned catacomb
    1x Watery grave
    1x Mystifying Maze
    1x Caves of koilos
    1x Reliquary tower
    1x Hall of the bandit lord
    1x Temple of deceit
    1x Underground river
    1x Fetid pools
    1x Temple of enlightenment
    1x Halimar depths
    1x Homeward path
    1x Temple of the false god
    1x Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
    1x Cabal coffers
    1x Concealed courtyard
    1x Godless shrine
    1x City of brass

    #Mana rocks
    1x Orzhov signet
    1x Commander's sphere
    1x Azorius signet
    1x Dimir signet
    1x Sol ring
    1x Mind stone
    1x Whispersilk cloak
    1x Swiftfoot boots
    1x Lightning greaves
    1x Darksteel plate

    #Top manipulation
    1x Portent
    1x Index
    1x Sensei's divining top
    1x Soothsaying
    1x Scroll rack
    1x Preordain
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Ponder
    1x Aminatou, the fateshifter
    1x Serum visions
    1x Mystic speculation
    1x Prognostic sphinx

    #Spot removal
    1x Anguished unmaking
    1x path to exile
    1x Crush contraband
    1x Utter end
    1x Darksteel mutation
    1x Swords to plowshares

    #Mass Removal
    1x Plague wind
    1x Fumigate
    1x Damnation
    1x Wrath of god
    1x Supreme Verdict
    1x Cyclonic rift
    1x In garruk's wake

    1x Swan song
    1x Negate
    1x Counterbalance
    1x Stifle
    1x Dissolve
    1x Counterspell
    1x Turn aside
    1x Arcane denial

    #Card draw
    1x Rhystic study
    1x Phyrexian arena
    1x Future sight

    1x Ghostly prison
    1x Nevermore
    1x No mercy
    1x Aurification
    1x Gift of immortality

    1x Bane of bala ged
    1x Elesh Norn, grand cenobite
    1x Teysa, envoy of ghosts
    1x Artisan of kozilek
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Rune scarred demon
    1x Ulamog, the infinite gyre
    1x Emrakul, the promised end
    1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
    1x void winnower
    1x Debt to the deathless
    1x Torment of hailfire

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Need help cutting cards for Yennet, Criptic sovereign
    Quote from Outcryqq »
    I have a Yennet deck, but I typically do not have problems with creature-based decks since my creatures usually have bigger butts and vigilance. Are you having problem with token decks?

    No, but I am having problems tring to keep myself alive while develop my plan, so I am adding some pillowfort and diferent wincos such as Exganguinate

    Do you have a deck list I can check for ideas?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Need help cutting cards for Yennet, Criptic sovereign
    I have cutted out approach, I use nevermore as a second copy of darksteel mutation because I have certain commanders I just dont want to see on the table (Lavinia, azorius renegade or gadock teeg for example)
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Blattant thievery questions
    Thanks both for the answers
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Blattant thievery questions

    1. If I cast Blatant thievery I need to target before it resolves?
    2. Once the spell resolves, the opponents can sacriofice their permanentes before I get those
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Need help cutting cards for Yennet, Criptic sovereign

    I am building a Yennet deck, this is my first try so I am avoiding some usual suspects for this deck like extra turns or infinite combos or MLD

    Basically, What I want to do at first is building a better Kaalia of the vast deck.

    My idea here is cheating some bombs and win with those, because Yennet is blue I have access to counterspells so I may be able to protect the strategy way better than Kaalia

    My meta has a lot of creature based decks, so I am thinking adding Propaganda and a couple pillowfort cards to survive long enough

    I am having troubles deciding wich cards to cut to make room for 3-4 pillowfort cards, my possible inclusions are

    Ghostly prision
    Windborn muse
    No mercy
    War tax

    Wichs cards will you swap for one or more of the ones I want in?

    The deck

    Lands (37)

    1x Caves of Koilos
    1x Drowned Catacomb
    1x Exotic Orchard
    1x Fetid Pools
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Halimar Depths
    1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
    1x High Market
    1x Homeward Path
    10x Island
    1x Myriad Landscape
    1x Mystifying Maze
    4x Plains
    1x Reliquary Tower
    1x Sea of Clouds
    4x Swamp
    1x Temple of Deceit
    1x Temple of Enlightenment
    1x Temple of the False God
    1x Terramorphic Expanse
    1x Underground River
    1x Watery Grave

    Mass Removal (5)

    1x Damnation
    1x Fumigate
    1x Plague Wind
    1x Supreme Verdict
    1x Wrath of God

    Godies (4)

    1x Approach of the Second Sun
    1x Land Tax
    1x Mind's Dilation
    1x Nevermore

    Big dudes (12)

    1x Artisan of Kozilek
    1x Bane of Bala Ged
    1x Blazing Archon
    1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1x Emrakul, the Promised End
    1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
    1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
    1x Rune-Scarred Demon
    1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
    1x Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
    1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    1x Void Winnower

    Top manipulation (9)

    1x Aminatou, the Fateshifter
    1x Brainstorm
    1x Index
    1x Ponder
    1x Portent
    1x Preordain
    1x Scroll Rack
    1x Sensei's Divining Top
    1x Soothsaying

    Spot removal (7)

    1x Anguished Unmaking
    1x Condemn
    1x Crush Contraband
    1x Darksteel Mutation
    1x Stonecloaker
    1x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Utter End

    Equipment (3)

    1x Lightning Greaves
    1x Swiftfoot Boots
    1x Whispersilk Cloak

    Mana rocks (10)

    1x Commander's Sphere
    1x Dimir Signet
    1x Gilded Lotus
    1x Jeweled Amulet
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Mind Stone
    1x Orzhov Signet
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Solemn Simulacrum
    1x Talisman of Dominance

    Counters (8)

    1x Arcane Denial
    1x Counterbalance
    1x Counterspell
    1x Dissolve
    1x Negate
    1x Stifle
    1x Swan Song
    1x Turn Aside

    Card draw (4)

    1x Esper Charm
    1x Mulldrifter
    1x Phyrexian Arena
    1x Thoughtcast

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from DirkGently »
    Hi Vishnakuttar,

    I didn't mean any offense by the section, although I'll admit to going a little over the top with the joke about not voting (although it was just a suggestion not a totalitarian demand). That was brought to my attention so I went ahead and removed it prior to your comment, along with some of the other stuff that was potentially antagonistic. I hope that improves the situation for you. Regardless of what you believe about climate change, I think we can agree that many people see it as a problem, yet despite a broad public desire to do something about it, very little of significant effect is actually being done (whether or not there's anything about which to be done).

    I like this section because it's a good metaphor for how Phelddagrif operates - a long term, vague problem that is almost always outweighed by more immediate concerns and personal gain. I'm not really aware of anything else that compares to the effect quite as nicely, so I'd like to leave it in. It's just a single section in a very large primer though - I hope you can see past it.

    I am glad people are actually reading all the way through this stuff, though. Sometimes this primer feels like shouting into the wind.

    Please do not censor yourself because some people like this guy had his feelings hurt, please do not let this kind of people reap your right to say whatever you want.

    They can think and say that global warming is fake and I don't care about their ignorance, I won't ask them to not talk their thoughts, and I will not hold my thoughts because some people have their feelings hurt for those.

    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Quote from DirkGently »

    Ok, so Conqueror's Galleon.

    I think galleon is kind of a litmus test for playing the deck. Because it's absolutely a powerful card. And it can absolutely win you games. When I was running it (in multiple decks) it frequently became "ok, well, the right play here is to recur this board wipe...again...and then destroy all your stuff...again...and then I have to replay my commander so I can eventually end this game..."

    It slows the game down to a crawl, basically, a miserable crawl with all the focus on you, where you're going to win but it's going to take forever, and at the end people will not be thinking "huh, how weird, that game had so many powerful nasty things happening, but at the end it came down to just a derpy hippo beating face after doing nothing much all game, isn't commander funny?" No, they'll be thinking "Well, that Phelddagrif deck LOOKS innocent enough, but eventually it's going to pull off some lockdown combo so you'd better smash it when you've got half a chance."

    So Conqueror's galleon is a sweet card, but it's not a card that fits with what we're trying to do. It's a card that fits into a normal control deck, one that's fine with becoming the threat and intends to do so when trying to win the game. Our goal is to avoid ever being the threat, right up until the game is over. Ideally, even when it's 1v1, your opponent should look like the favorite to an outside observer. Otherwise our opponents won't want to get into a 1v1 against you, and might try to eliminate you before the 1v1 game.

    Yopu have conviced me about galleon, I will play it only in my Oloro deck, seems like a perfect fit for the endgame (Oloro is a 4/5)

    Edit (to avoid double post)

    I am imagining this game

    Turn 1 - Land and go (for every player)
    Turn 2 - Land and go (maybe 1 player casts a spell and 2 a 1/1 or 2/2)
    Turn 3 - Land and go (I get 3 damage because I cant block amd I play blue, then there are a bunch of dorks in the table)
    Turn 4 - Land and go (I get 7-10 more damage and people gets more dudes / spells)
    Turn 5 - Land and play my Comander (saving a blue to bounce, people stops atacking because now there is a 4/4 bloquer unless they have much bigger stuff)
    Turn 6 - ????
    Turn 7 - Profit

    By turn 6 I still have 7 cards in hand, and if I miss a single LD I will be forced to discard unless of course I have spent some spells before.. but.... all our spells are counters and removal so , how do you normally play those first 6 turns?
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Thanks a lot for your input, please take in consideration that I am actually building the deck, I haven-'t really tried yet so I may be wrong in several statements

    Quote from DirkGently »
    Sure, I can give your list a quick look.

    Dispel is debatable. Not definitely wrong, but I'd only include it if you're in a pretty heavy counterspell meta where you'll have to win a counter war to block someone's wincon. If that's you, though, go ahead and keep it in. If it's not, though, I usually prefer more flexibility in my counters.

    My meta is blue heavy, not counterspell heavy, I don't use dispel in any of my decks, but because this deck has 15+ countespells It is just another option, but I will considered it as a possible cut.

    Quote from DirkGently »

    Turn to frog is too combat-dependent imo. If you try to block the creature they could just use removal on phelddagrif and force a bounce, and then their creature lives. I'd put in something more reliable, like crib swap for example.

    Hushwing Gryff is double trouble. It's a creature so our board wipes will kill it, it can absorb removal that we'd rather was pointed at our opponents, and even if it survives it's creating a scenario where your opponents may be motivated to kill you to prevent it impeding their plans in an ongoing way. I'd cut it in an instant.

    Mystic Snake is a pretty weak counter imo since it's overcosted by 2 for a body we don't need and can't really use outside of chump blocking. It's not terrible or anything but I'd prefer something else, personally.

    Selfless Squire is a fun card but I don't think I'd use it. Again, it gives a target for removal when we'd normally present none. Not terrible but 3 fogs is too many imo.

    Turn to frog is bad, for me is a proxy for rapid hybridization and/or Reality Shift (both cards I don't have yet)

    Mystic Snake, maybe Ill just replace it with dissolve

    Hushwing Gryff has won me games out of nowhere, but maybe he does not have a spot here, I will keep it for a time to see how it goes

    Selfless Squire: you are right, a 4cmc fog does not worth the slot.

    Sakura-tribe Elder I spend a bit of space in the guide on ramp - we don't really need it. We aren't ramping TO anything. One land per turn is plenty. As such, steve doesn't have much of a role in the deck. Doubly so for cultivate, Rampant Growth, and Kodama's Reach. Cut them all and add more lands instead. 38 is too few imo, I like over 40 myself but 40 would be as low as I'd go in most metas.

    I like the idea of getting those for co,or fixing, but I will try them out and add lands up to 40, you are right that we need no ramp

    I also don't think you need 3 neutralization removals (narco, lignify, deep freeze). Usually you need none. They're totally unnecessary. You should try to steer the game in such a way that you'll be 1v1ing the opponent who you can most easily handle, which shouldn't necessitate the use of such a card. BUT in some games you don't have full control of the game, or maybe the weakest deck has a commander that's hard to handle despite the rest of the deck being weaker. For commanders that either generate enormous value if left in play for any length of time (i.e. mayael) or who generate enormous value even when countered or removed by normal means (i.e. maelstrom wanderer). In those cases, neutralizing the commander in a permanent way can be the only way to keep control of the game long enough to win. That said, the neutralizers you've got already are weak because they leave the target as a (non-indestructible) creature so your board wipes will put their commander back in the command zone. So maybe you need 3 to be able to keep it locked down, idk. But I'd try to at least cut 1.

    Theese are replacement cards for darksteel mutation, imprisonment in the moon and song of the dryads wich I still dont have yet.

    My meta is full of "nasty" commanders, narset, mairsil, alesha and a long etc. So I may need to neutralize those

    Steel of the Godhead is pretty random. Doesn't make much sense for the deck - Phelddagrif is great, in part, because he can bounce to hand so easily. Strapping him up with auras kind of negates this benefit - and anyway, it doesn't do anything useful for us. If you want lifegain, run pulse of the fields or sphinx's revelation.

    I definitevly would run pulses, Ill switch steal for sphinx revelation as you suggested

    Conqueror's Galleon I've experimented with and found it to be too threatening for what we're trying to do.

    I know, I read all your posts about it, but I need to try it, it is just too awesome, maybe he doesn't not have a spot here but maybe for my OLoro,

    Land-wise I'd cut treva's ruins and reliquary tower. Reliquary tower I talk about in the guide so read that. Trevas is just bad imo. We want to play a land almost every turn. Setting ourselves back just for fixing is bad news. I like the karoo lands from ravnica block, though. They work just fine since they don't slow us down long-term and they give us a free extra card/man

    I haven't thought about karoo lands, I never play those, but it may very be worth the try, I need the color fixing

    Thanks for your input, Ill let you know how it went after I play a couple of games with the list and your suggestions
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength

    This post is awesome, thank you for the excellent work you have share with us in these 6 pages of topic.

    I have red a couple of times this post last week, because I am actually building my own version of the deck following your recomendations because I think this deck could be 'what I am looking for'

    I tried (and succeed) build a non oppressive, non combo focuses control deck that would win most of the time (in my playgroup), because the deck will rarely win before turn 20, would never have a turn 4-8 combo, wont tax people, won't counter everything, won't play rule of law or enter the battlefield tapped and friends I thought no one would be upset if the deck wins... but I was wrong with that.

    Propaganda, Aurification and other non aggressive pillowfort cards will aggro everyone in the table very soon, people will krosan grip any of my enchants and complaint because they have no answer at turn 20 to be able to deal with solemnity+ Glacial chasm

    So, I decided it is time to build a new deck, and I want a deck that can be perceived as fair, with no combos and with a win ratio over 50%, and it may very be this one.

    I like the 'counter wall', the heavy spot removal and the boardwipes retaliation

    In my actual control deck I have 9 boardwipes, in my pheldy I am starting at 12 and will be increased to 15 when I am able to get another copy of cyclonic rift, tragic arrogance and evacuation.

    I like the 'I have no permanents' strategy so we are able to play boardwipes like hour of revelation that normally I would not play

    Now, I have a prototype here

    It is incomplete, the lands needs some fix (incluing arch), there are some cards that I have in the list because I don't have yet the 'real ones', for example I have deep freeze in the list because I don't have yet a darksteel mutation, narcolepsy will leave whenever I can get a imprisonment in the moon .

    Besides those cards, I need to make room for 2 more counterspells 3 boardwipes and 2 more spot removal spells so I will apreciate if you can take a peek at my list and point me out which cards are the 'best candidates to go'

    Thanks in advance
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Bouncing Etrata, the Silencer

    If I have Etrata, the Silencer she atacks, and deals damage, I exile the third creature, can I bounce her back and avoid shuffling her but still being able to make a player lose the game?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Humility vs Aurification
    Actually, I see that there is basically only pillow-fort and removal cards in your deck…

    My Oloro deck was "designed for this"

    1. Be able to win consistently in 3v1 situations
    2. Do not play fast combos
    3. Do no make the game unbearable for others (Stax or MLD)

    1. Be able to win consistently in 3v1 situations

    I am in the "my playgroup targets me first" situation most of the time so I wanted a deck to "hold the pressure" and win.

    All that pillow forth cards such as propaganda , no mercy, aurification, etc allows me to skip the damage untill I can build my wincons

    2. Do not play fast combos

    Because I do not play creatures I can only win with combos but the ones I included are not fast and not easy and I dont have many tutors for the pieces so there is no T4 combo

    3. Do no make the game unbearable for others (Stax or MLD)

    My deck plays what I call "fair control", as long as you do not atack me you won't see any removal from me to your creatures, I won't boarwipe if no one is atacking me and I won't counterspell anything you play unless it is something extremy OP or annoying to me like havoc festival or I need to counter war to protect my wincons

    Quote from Jusstice »
    If you were in my group, we would target you on sight just for delaying the game this badly.

    My playgroup does not like "fast decks" , we dont have an explicit "no fast combos rules" allowed but it is ubnderstood for us that some no-nos are infinite turns and fast combos.

    The faster deck in my playgroup would be my Edgar Markov that has won games at T6 with combat damage only and even there some people booed for the lack of turns.

    So, it is true that my deck takes the game very long, my wincons now are

    1. Approach of the second sun
    2. Luminarch ascension
    3. Sanguine bond + exquisite blood
    4. Sanguine bond + venser's journal + a lot of cards in hand
    5. Sidri, galvanic genius + aetherflux reservoir

    I had other but I tok them off because people was booing on them and because they are harder to do then they seems (felidar sovereign and test of endurance)

    Off this topic but in relation to your deck, Phyrexian Unlife is another good one. Pros, it works well with Oloro since you can get your life back up above positive easily. Cons, doesn’t have any effect until you actually get to zero or less.

    Thanks I will give it a thought

    Quote from Lithl »

    As for Humility vs. Aurafication or No Mercy, the big difference is creatures that don't need to attack to do their job. My Trinket Mage or Seedborn Muse doesn't care about your Aurafication, but Humility is a big problem for them.

    As I said, I don't want to interfere too much with the rest of the tables games (unless theyre game is killing me) so I want you to have your Trinket Mage and get your artifact I just want to survive long enough to build my wincons
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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