To get back on topic: I don't think Heliod has broken Pioneer. Honestly I do not expect to see it at MF Brussels next weekend. Do any of you still think it needs a ban anytime soon?
Yeah I'm excited to shake up modern with Heliod in a Devoted Druid shell with Kitchen Finks and Spike Feeder. The Heliod Ballista combo is just one piece in a deck like that. If they answer it, you follow up with another combo. Pioneer just doesn't have that combo redundancy.
One of those needs to be banned NOW before they become a legal infinite combo in Pioneer. I would suggest Ballista (I am changing my mind here) although it will have some collateral damage in a small handful of decks. But it looks like the Wizards dunderheads are going to let this combo poison the format until the next B&R in February. Playing online is going to be ZERO fun for the next few weeks if they let this slip. They know it exists, they KNOW the playerbase will abuse it. Fix it NOW WotC!!!
Have you played against Heliod Ballista? Do you have some information we don't see here? The way I see it, Ballista is very fragile. Any removal/counterspell/hatepiece shuts this down! Even burn can play Skullcrack to stop this in some situations. Also, combo's like these is why we need Thoughtseize to be around. Not every deck can play Thoughtseize, but the existence of it will make peopl think twice about playing this deck. I'm excited to play MTGO pioneer leagues if I'm going to face 3 Heliod Ballista decks in each one.
I believe this combo is mostly just hype, and even if it isn't I would like stats to prove it's doing well before things get banned. It makes no sense to me to ban based on pure speculation.
Ok, first thing: there won't be any bans until the 6th of January.
Secondly: if they would ban these 4 cards I don't think the format will be healthy. There will be no reason to play control, since you would be having difficulty with decks that go under (aggro) and decks that go over the top (ramp). Without thoughtseize it will be easier for decks like ramp to just completely go over the top of any deck that doesn't run counterspells, so the meta will be divided into counterspell tempodecks and ramp.
Nightpack Ambusher is exactly what this deck needs against Control and Midrange. I would also consider Brineborn Cutthroat, because turn 2 is often the turn before you are going to need countermagic, and it provides a good clock if you cast a spell on your opponents turn every turn.
The one problem here is that people wouldn't just mainboard Duress or Despise when Thoughseize is banned. These cards simply aren't that good in the mainboard. Thoughtseize being banned would just make black decks worse because they would have less efficient tools to attack the hand.
Giving Green the free digging power of OUaT when they already have so many playable 1 mana dorks gives it a consistency that circumvents variance, a huge part of Magic.
play something like Duress and completely whiff against creature-based decks
Interesting, so variance is good when it comes to green but bad when it comes to black? I get what you are saying, I just think the message needs to be consistent. I would be fine with a Duress/Despise split and I play a lot of mono black.
I hope you see that these are two different things entirely. Duress and Despise aren't really cards I'd want to mainboard, because they often miss in certain matchups. That puts you behind on card advantage. Not having a manadork or a 3-drop to capitalize on it puts you behind on a different axis.
Green decks were very consistent in putting a 3-drop on the battlefield on turn two, because of OUaT. This was reflected in the meta (tons of green based aggro decks). Thoughtseize is played in mono-black aggro and Golgari lands, both of which have been hit by last monday's bans in another way. Let's just await what the new tier one decks will be.
Smuggler's Copter getting the ban for being "too big a threat for a lot of non tier decks" makes no sense. Non-tier decks can play all the answers to the copter that the tier decks can play. I think what you want to say is that it homogenizes decks, and that every midrangey creature deck will want to play the copter. I don't think that is actually true though. Collected Company decks often don't want the copter because it's not a CoCo hit. Any deck that ramps will want to play bigger threats. It's barely fast enough to be played in aggro decks (Simic Aggro doesn't want it, mono-red sometimes does).
Banning more things now is bad for Pioneer as a competative format. There is just no data to support any bans, and no deck is obviously too strong. People like to hate on Field of the Dead, but I don't believe it's as good as people say it is. Most of the other decks that seem to be tier 1 right now are well equiped to go beat it. It is a real problem for control to beat, but every deck has it's bad matchups. I personally thing Once Upon a Time makes green decks way too consistent, but again: there's not enough tournament data to prove it.
Fry is good to deal with Lyra, as well as Teferi some other planeswalkers. Gruul Spellbreaker protects you from Settle the Wreckage and is just an awesome creature
Phyrexian Revoker is a weird mainboard inclusing. What's going on in your meta that you want to stop with those?
So instead of winning by actually playing the game and making decisions, they'd rather just put Ethereal Armor and 3 Rancors on Bogles and Louis C.K. you. A lot of Magic games mirror modern board game design where no one truly interacts with each other, they're just playing "Multiplayer Solitaire".
I think your view of modern is off. Path to Exile, Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Dismember and Snapcaster Mage are still among the 10 most played cards in modern. The format has a lot of proactive decks, but that doesn't mean the games are uninteractive. Even decks like Bogles, Ad Naus and Neoform can be interacted with, but you have to find your angle, as it were. If anything, these decks FORCE people to interact. No competative player is content with just playing Neoform Mirrors all day and going 4-4. People pick up these fast 'uninteractive' decks when they think the meta doesn't currently have the angle to interact with them. Once the meta catches on, it usually finds that angle. If modern was like you describe it, it wouldn't be thriving right now.
EDIT: I noticed I misread the original post
3 Eidolon of obstruction
4 herald of the pantheon
4 starfield mystic
4 courser of kruphix
4 setessan champion
4 eidolon of blossoms
3 calix, Destiny's hand
4 wolfwillow haven
3 sigil of the empty throne
4 fortified village
6 plains
4 sunpetal grove
4 temple garden
Maybe give arguments instead of whatever this is supposed to be
Yeah I'm excited to shake up modern with Heliod in a Devoted Druid shell with Kitchen Finks and Spike Feeder. The Heliod Ballista combo is just one piece in a deck like that. If they answer it, you follow up with another combo. Pioneer just doesn't have that combo redundancy.
Have you played against Heliod Ballista? Do you have some information we don't see here? The way I see it, Ballista is very fragile. Any removal/counterspell/hatepiece shuts this down! Even burn can play Skullcrack to stop this in some situations. Also, combo's like these is why we need Thoughtseize to be around. Not every deck can play Thoughtseize, but the existence of it will make peopl think twice about playing this deck. I'm excited to play MTGO pioneer leagues if I'm going to face 3 Heliod Ballista decks in each one.
I believe this combo is mostly just hype, and even if it isn't I would like stats to prove it's doing well before things get banned. It makes no sense to me to ban based on pure speculation.
Secondly: if they would ban these 4 cards I don't think the format will be healthy. There will be no reason to play control, since you would be having difficulty with decks that go under (aggro) and decks that go over the top (ramp). Without thoughtseize it will be easier for decks like ramp to just completely go over the top of any deck that doesn't run counterspells, so the meta will be divided into counterspell tempodecks and ramp.
I hope you see that these are two different things entirely. Duress and Despise aren't really cards I'd want to mainboard, because they often miss in certain matchups. That puts you behind on card advantage. Not having a manadork or a 3-drop to capitalize on it puts you behind on a different axis.
Green decks were very consistent in putting a 3-drop on the battlefield on turn two, because of OUaT. This was reflected in the meta (tons of green based aggro decks). Thoughtseize is played in mono-black aggro and Golgari lands, both of which have been hit by last monday's bans in another way. Let's just await what the new tier one decks will be.
This doesn't work. The wurm's effect is a triggered ability. This would be put onto the stack after completely resolving your Creativity.
Gruul Spellbreaker protects you from Settle the Wreckage and is just an awesome creature
Phyrexian Revoker is a weird mainboard inclusing. What's going on in your meta that you want to stop with those?
I think your view of modern is off. Path to Exile, Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Dismember and Snapcaster Mage are still among the 10 most played cards in modern. The format has a lot of proactive decks, but that doesn't mean the games are uninteractive. Even decks like Bogles, Ad Naus and Neoform can be interacted with, but you have to find your angle, as it were. If anything, these decks FORCE people to interact. No competative player is content with just playing Neoform Mirrors all day and going 4-4. People pick up these fast 'uninteractive' decks when they think the meta doesn't currently have the angle to interact with them. Once the meta catches on, it usually finds that angle. If modern was like you describe it, it wouldn't be thriving right now.
EDIT: I noticed I misread the original post