Another one I'm on the fence about. I like having the redundancy at the Natural Order slot, but I'm not sold on the card itself being great. We'll see I guess.
Pretty much this.
I love that this is a lower power option for Cube owners that are looking to keep their Cube loose and not jam it full of high power cards. Seems like a good card for Cube as a format, but not particularly exciting for most veterans of the format that have higher-end Cubes.
Juice:
They are unlikely to "ruin" your commander experience in any meaningful way, both for lack of visibility or just people like me that has never seen the show.
Just going to throw this out there, for clarity's sake.
I have been reading the comics for a long time, and have also been a pretty big fan of the show. I still think this product is pretty disgusting and unappealing.
Not realyl a significant talking point or really one of any contention. But thought I should clarify for those reading my responses.
Juice, you're just banging your head against a wall there. I blocked and reported that dude a while ago, either he's completely unhinged or a dedicated troll, and your efforts to apply logic to the situation are just going to wear you out while he simply finds another way to weasel around what you say to support his own points.
Trust me, I know from experience, you're better off not interacting with people like that. For your own sanity.
Yeah, his doubling down tends to lead to longer and longer posts trying to defend his lack of substance and relevancy as he starts scraping the bottom of the barrel trying not to sound daft.
You aren’t making any counter arguments - I make a point, and then you say it’s ridiculous without explaining why.
Okay, here we go. Let's keep in mind that you said "Commander is the only context.
1) It's a blatantly predatory business model. "If you miss a drop, it's gone forever" or whatever their stupid slogan is. They're obviously preying on peoples' FOMO to sell these things, because people are worried they might want it later and the price will skyrocket. It's the same psychologically manipulative tactics that mobile games have been "pioneering" in an effort to force people to part with their money as effectively as possible. This was semi-acceptable with reprints since at least those cards were already available at whatever the price was, but with these, there's really no telling where the price will go.
Irrelevant to Commander. The format is littered with cards that are largely unaccessible and yet the format continues to grow and do well. Further to this point, Commander is an incredibly proxy friendly format for this very reason. Whether or not this is a "Predatory business model" is irrelevant to Commander, specifically when it comes to the discussion of "Should these cards be banned?" - which I will remind you, is kind of the centerpiece of this entire thread. This, is the first example of you straw-manning.
2) The price is extortionary. Ignoring the tokens because who gives a damn, you're paying $10 per card, assuming you're in a place where you don't have to pay import taxes or whatever else. That's a price we're used to because of the singles market, but the reason some singles are worth $10+ is because of all the many, many, many cards that AREN'T worth that much. For every $10 piece of cardboard WotC produces for a penny, they make hundreds of worthless cards for the same cost, and leave it to the secondary market to sort out what is worth what. By straight-up selling cards for $10, they're putting in almost zero effort and blatantly ripping players off.
Also, irrelevant to Commander, as well as this thread. See the above counterpoint as to why.
3) There is already a precedent for crossovers in magic, in fact there have been two: silver border cards, which almost everyone I've met is happy to allow in a game of casual commander so long as they aren't being abused, and the godzilla "alt-art" versions from Ikoria. Either of these would have been acceptable to most people, but they didn't do either - because if they did alt-arts, then they wouldn't be able to prey on FOMO because most people would just pick them up in a normal version, and if they did silver-border, then players wouldn't consider them "real cards" and so they wouldn't feel it as necessary to pick them up and they won't sell as many copies (likely only fans of TWD would pick them up, which imo ought to be the goal anyway). It's a blatantly greedy move to push the cards without regard for how players are going to feel about them.
I don't know what a silver border has to do with it, other than making it illegal for use in Commander. Which kind of runs contradictory to your statements and issues further on, which suggest that the problem is that these cards are legal everywhere... Once again, the context here has nothing to do with Commander. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder as to how collectables in this game should be handled, and it is rather arbitrary when it comes to Commander and the playability of the format with these cards existing within it.
4) Having non-magic IP, especially modern day real-world-adjacent IP, forced into the game is annoying and immersion breaking. Personally I'm a little luke-warm on this point since I'd be happy to see, for example, a set based around lord of the rings or some similarly venerable IP, but as someone who watched the first 3-4 seasons of TWD, it's a garbage show that gets way more marketing push than it deserves. Having TWD cards forced into the the game feels like an advertisement for a commercial product, not a fun flavor change.
As I had said before, you are talking about how rare these cards are and how that rarity is a cash grab move, but then you seem to suggest that they are common enough to impact the immerson of games across the globe. Your complaints about this product, really appear to be hyperbole. Is this product too rare for most players to get, or is it too common that the IP bleed is going to cause mass exodus in the format? Which is it?
5) Selling these cards online only cuts out the LGS, which are already struggling significantly thanks to the pandemic, and certainly haven't been helped by the advent of arena either. It's a move that feels like it's focused on the short-term gains of "cutting out the middle-man", but at the sacrifice of the long-term health of paper play.
Your 4th instance of being completely irrelevant to Commander.
6) These aren't available in all regions, which isn't fair to players in those regions (I'm also lukewarm on this point since I don't think anyone should buy them).
See Spoiler for "Your Point #4.
7) If they ever become tournament viable - probably not this batch, but who knows with future batches - not only might that cause a catastrophic price surge, but it also might mean that high-level magic play is being dominated by Mickey Mouse or whatever other cringy IP WotC is shilling for.
Pretty bold doomsday claim here. Just because they are showcasing collectable cross-IP promotions, doesn't mean they won't be protecting their brand. We are seeing more on-brand products for Commander this year, than ever before. WOTC knows how popular this format is, and they know that it didn't surge because of My Little Pony cards or Godzilla cards. Hasbro has a pretty invested interest in carrying the MTG IP, which is evident by the surge in on-brand product over the last few years.
8) Probably the most minor note, but I guess Negan has done some bad stuff on the show (beyond the expected murder and whatnot) to where it might be kinda weird to play him as a commander - like imagine if Jeffrey Epstein was a commander. No clue, I finally gave up right about the time he was introduced and at this point I refuse to care about TWD on principle.
Conflating the representation of a character killing people in a post-apocalyptic fictional story, to the representation of an actual person who has sexually exploited women, is a pretty poor argument as to why these cards should not exist. Your last few points really appear to be drummed up because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel
most importantly, these set a TERRIBLE precedent for what could happen in the future. Tons of crossovers with awful IPs (someone's mentioned fortnite is possible...just shoot me), the potential for legacy-viable cards, or maybe even standard-legal cards, or even just powerful commanders that become must-haves, at extortionary prices that cut out LGSs while they bleed commander players dry. Some of those are more slippery-slopey than others, but the additional IPs is basically confirmed by WotC. If this was a one-and-done product I'd be annoyed but I'd get over it, but I think this is likely to be the beginning of the end for what we once called magic - and I don't say that lightly. I've never felt this way before in almost twenty years of playing, in fact I've usually defended WotC. But this is completely different, and if we don't do something about it, this game is going to go downhill very quickly.
[/quote]
See spoiler for "Your Pont #7.
I think things like this are gauged on how players ultimately receive them. So I will end this string of talking points with this - I think it is perfectly okay for people to be turned off by this IP bleed. I think it is cringy as hell, I really disliked the Godzilla cards as well. However, that is a poor excuse for exaggerating the situation and blowing it out of proportion. It is okay to be vocal about it, I have been on numerous reddit threads sharing my distaste for cards like this. But you have taken an issue not really relevant to Commander, and raided this thread and touted that "Commander is the only context." When really, none of your points are specific to Commander and whether or not the RC should ban these cards or if players should try and find an alternative to the RC.
If you’re not interested in engaging with the substance of the discussion then I’m not interested in trying to communicate with you.
THIS, right here, is why you look so silly. I gave all of these counterpoints in previous posts and you became so defensive that you don't even acknowledge them as counterpoints. You have thrown not only context out the window - but also logic and reason. The breakdown in this conversation (and thread) isn't from me, my man, it is from you. I suggest you learn to keep yourself a bit more grounded.
You came to a thread complaining about them in Commander - to talk about how legitimate people's complaints are, outside the context of commander...
Is the long and short of it. You also have the gall to act like I am where the breakdown in communication is, when you are starting to straw man this entire thread lol.
The difference between these and grimlock/mlp is that these are fully-legal cards.
El oh el...
I think you just want to complain and when you are being told your complaints are incoherent, you double down. You are making yourself look kind of silly.
You came to a thread complaining about them in Commander - to talk about how legitimate people's complaints are, outside the context of commander...
Is the long and short of it. You also have the gall to act like I am where the breakdown in communication is, when you are starting to straw man this entire thread lol.
Part of managing a cube and balancing it, is letting go of your personal feeling about cards and try and be objective rather than subjective. When you want to fit in some cards you enjoy playing, look for cards on the opposite end of the spectrum and cut them. I think getting into messing with what is actually written on the card, is a pretty slippery slope and more work than it needs to be.
Some design advice in general, regardless of what you are designing (be it a Cube, or software interface) look for common problems that occur in multitudes, and work on solving those. Don't focus on smaller and more niche problems.
For example, if you want to make Akroma, Angel of Wrath more powerful and Elder Gargaroth weaker - slow down the overall pace of the Cube. If you want to make Elder more powerful and Akroma weaker, speed up the cube.
It's got less to do with the cards being broken when it's more about the precedent it sets for future IP Crossovers where Wizards of the Coast has realized that MTG's lore isn't enough to help sell the game to reach a broader audience which is ironic considering that the game never really had to rely on it's own source material or lack there of in order to get to where it became today. It was just something that most players and collectors took for granted when they were more drawn by it's unique gameplay mechanics, tangibility as a collectible item, card combination synergy / possibilities, and it's ability to provide the kind of social interaction that often nowadays gets neglected due to recent advancements in technology.
I don't know what that actually has to do with trying to encourage the abandonment of something like the RC and Commander in favor of something like Captain and a publicly established committee to manage it. This problem isn't specific to Commander, in any way really.
MTG isn't losing players and collectors because of the game's own lore, they're losing players and collectors because of Wizards of the Coast's own incompetence by only looking out for their shareholders at Hasbro instead of the best interests of the MTG community overall which they've been neglecting ever since they hired Chris Cocks as their CEO to help MTG compete in the digital market more. So until there's a major shakeup within the company and Wizards of the Coast stops lying to Hasbro by pretending their product has sold more than what it actually did by sitting at a warehouse not getting shipped by local distributors to Local Game Stores then nothing is going to change.
I am going to reiterate my misunderstanding here. I don't understand what the problem with these cards are (as it pertains to Commander and the RC). They do not seem particularly broken. Why are people upset that these are legal in Commander?
I get why people do not like them as it pertains to IP bleed and realistic/relatable art. But that has nothing to do with Commander. You don't see people abandoning Legacy or Modern because of them, or even really threatening to...
The conclusion I am going to come to here is that people crying out for bans really have no legitimate reasoning for doing so and their arguments for why they are advocating abandoning the format and RC, are pretty ridiculous. These are the kind of players who I personally feel should just leave the format. It appears they don't seem to enjoy it enough to come up with stronger reasoning for why these cards are a problem (as it pertains to commander), and ultimately appear to be in denial about how they truly feel about the format.
That might seem harsh, but perhaps the 2 biggest problems I have with commander are:
1. Players feeling entitled to play open games with randoms and cry about playing decks they don't like.
2. Players virtue-signaling this 'love' for the format but do nothing other than complain.
People have seem to have forgotten the days where not everyone played Commander outside of you and your close friends. You didn't like something, you talked to them and everyone often kept each other on the same page. It is almost like players these days don't understand how to properly curate a group who shares similar values.
I think you've completely missed the point. This is not a question about me personally, and it's not really about these products specifically either. It's about the direction this game is headed as a whole, and how WotC is treating its customers.
I don't think I missed the point at all. People are clamoring about making a new RC and canceling Commander and the RC in favor of Captain...
I asked WHY, and your response seems to either have nothing to do with the situation as it pertains to Commander, or they are naive points. I think it is as cringe as the next guy, but this discussion of canceling the RC and Commander is pretty rediculous.
WotC's predatory model here isn't bad because I personally might miss out, or worry about missing out. It's bad because it's simply morally wrong. There are many people out there - and while do I have these tendencies, personally I can keep them in check in this instance - who are going to see a product that's only available for a short time and decide they have to buy it, not because they actually want it, but because they're worried they might want it later. And in particular the structure of MtG makes they predatory practice really powerful, because unlike a limited edition figurine or whatever, not just the value but also the function of these cards could change with the release of future cards. Maybe Rick doesn't look legacy viable now, but maybe WotC makes some really pushed human tribal cards in the future and suddenly he's an in-demand 3-of for a top-tier legacy deck. There's also such a short window between the announcement and the "gotta buy it right now" window that there's not much time to test these cards with proxies, for players who might want to do some research for buying, or who just might want more time to think it over. Most cards are easily available for years before supplies start to dry up, which gives plenty of time for those cards to be tested and proven in various formats - whether that's a competitive format or casual commander. With these, you've gotta buy 'em RIGHT NOW BUY THEM RIGHT NOW OR YOU'LL NEVER HAVE THEM. And who knows what the next set will look like, or the next, or the next? It took WotC TWO unique BaB promos to screw up and make one standard-competitive. We're just going to hope that doesn't happen again, except potentially much worse, this time? They're playing with fire here, fire they've proven they cannot control, and they're doing it out of greed, pure and simple. It's wrong and they know it's wrong.
Yet this isn't new. People have been dealing with card availability in MTG since... forever. People will meet this situation as they always have in the format... just proxy them. Exclusivity is nothing new to the game, the only difference is that now it isn't driven by the secondary market. Plenty of companies market on this axis without being called predatory, so why is MTG unable to do the same without receiving backlash?
I don't necessarily mind IP bleed as much as most - I love seeing pop culture alters for the most part (I've got an genie transforming abu alter of [[pongify]] for example), I'm happy to play against silver-bordered cards, and I love P3k - in fact I wish they did more similar things, because I really don't give a crap about the MtG story or characters and everything I read from it makes me cringe. But The Walking Dead is, imo, a very very poor choice of crossover IP for a couple reasons:
1) It takes place in a near-real-world, and the cards depict real human actors. This is way more jarring to me than any Kaiju.
2) More importantly, TWD is a currently running commercial product, and WotC partnering with them is essentially selling us advertisements for that show. That is a huge difference between, say, P3K which afaik isn't shilling for any Chinese history books. Luckily I'm not super interested in the design of any of these cards, but if I were, I'd be very bothered by being forced to run one themed around another commercial property like TWD. Sure, Godzilla technically is too, but I sure haven't seen any movies advertised for Spacegodzilla or Mechagodzilla or whatever. They're old enough to feel like general cultural consciousness, and not something trying to sell itself right now. And more importantly they're available in normal "magic" versions so I'm not forced to play with them, and I don't (except death corona because that's too gold to pass up).
3) Less importantly, The Walking Dead is just the worst show. It blows my mind that people still watch that dreck and think it's actually good. Season 1 was mediocre and then season 2 was already unforgivably bad in so many ways - boring, contrived, nonsensical, boring, poorly-written, under-budgeted, boring, and with few, if any, redeeming characters. If this was a crossover with a property I had even a modicum of respect for, I'd be a lot more conflicted, but there are few shows I have less respect for than TWD. Thirteen Reasons Why, there we go, I found one. If they partner with 13RW I will throw my magic collection off a bridge.
The product is limited to the point where I think these complaints are just kind of ridiculous to draw the conclusion that they are ruining the game. You are talking about the exclusiveness of the product while simultaneously advocating that it is going to heavily permeate MTG to the point where it is shoved in everyone's face. Talk about speaking in hyperbole.
By making these cards TWD, they're saying that if I want to play these cards, I have to support the walking dead and play with cards that have their names and images on them. That is a massive barf from me. As mentioned, none of these hugely appeal (I guess I might want to try Negan out? But it's certainly not a pressing need) but who knows what the future might hold with future lairs that might have more interesting mechanics with flavor I dislike? I also don't relish the idea of getting my ass kicked by Ronald McDonald because they pushed their mcdonalds crossover to hell and back. Silver border lets me say "no", black border does not.
You know what else lets you say "no"? Curating a playgroup like people did when EDH first got off the ground. I am unsure why so many people seem to think that you have to play the format in an open table setting as opposed to a kitchen table style setting in which the format was birthed. It is rather comical whilst being very confusing.
All that said, I'm certainly not calling for deposing the RC. I wish they had banned them, and I think they should have, but I do understand their reasoning - a banlist really isn't the "proper" way to prevent these things from happening. I happen to think it's still an effective way, and that when faced with the potential ruination of the format, efficacy is more important that decorum, but I don't think they should get removed for their opinion, definitely not.
I still have not seen a single justifiable reason for banning them. Being cringe isn't really a valid reason. Ruining the format is a pretty bold claim.
If you have a fear of missing out on these products, then try to buy them. If you miss out on them, so what? You suddenly cannot play commander and have fun anymore?
Limited print runs also drastically reduces the odds that these cards even make it into your commander experience. So I am not sure the IP bleeding is really a valid argument.
I think the crossover stuff is incredibly cringe. Godzilla cards were pretty gross. D&D crossover sounds even more disgusting. These TWD cards are pretty deplorable.
But to call for the cancelation of the RC over this stuff, seems kind of petty. We have commander players here that loved the Godzilla cards but have never played them. They just stuck them in their show off binder and called it a day. New mechanics also rarely have enough support to spawn a consistent enough deck where crossover cards are going to thematically make a game feel off.
I don’t even really understand why TWD cards are a problem. Why do people care about them being legal? Is it because they cannot get their own? They don’t really look broken. Is it because you don’t want TWD character IPs in your game of Magic? What?
I think that the old EDH philosophy and original banned list kind of stand as evidence that this would not work. For a number of years, when people would ask about a banned list, they were directed to the old EDH website. Over time, the disparity between that website and the official WOTC Commander website has diminished as they start to align more and more. No longer is the idea of promoting your own banned list something of note, it is kind of just something older players to the format remember was a thing at one point.
Some stores still do this, our store had a custom banned list for years. Last year one of the owners sold their share of it and the new owner that came in, had simply scrapped it and went with the official list.
Unfortunately, this dumpster fire is blazin' and there isn't really any way to put it out at this point. The RC is what it is and will almost certainly continue.
The announcement seems rather ridiculous. I get the feeling, reading it, that Uro was only ever tested with sets prior to it and not necessarily ahead of it. What utter nonsense.
Kinda waiting for the announcement for the end of the game announcement, where they end the game itself and admit that they have just spent 2019 and 2020 to cash out... lol. What the hell is even happening to this game?
I dont know who to quote here but there are absolutely times where you vant curate your pods. Where you have no choice in who you play and refusing to means no game.
For instance one shop here gets about 8 players. Thats two pods. If you refuse to play against someone, well youre ***** out of luck that round.
Another place gets about 40 people. They only do 2 or 3 rounds. Again, if you refuse to play against someone... well maybe you can swap but chances are your ass is skipping that round
Point is that for some places edh night is organized and structured. Social contract and communication on power level just does not work in that environment because you cant predict what youre going to be up against, and everyone is playing for different reasons. Discussing it doesnt always do anything because some people only bring one deck, some people have different perceptions of power levels, sometimes youre the 8th man at an 8 person event where the 7 others are friends and go full bore where you cant.
Edh experiences vary.
And yet the only person responsible for your fun, is still you...
I am not sure why this is such a hard concept for some of you all to grasp, but you can skip structured commander nights at your LGS and instead call or text friends to schedule time to sit down and play, any other night of the week...
This arguments here for how that is impossible, are absolutely comical.
Pretty much this.
I love that this is a lower power option for Cube owners that are looking to keep their Cube loose and not jam it full of high power cards. Seems like a good card for Cube as a format, but not particularly exciting for most veterans of the format that have higher-end Cubes.
Just going to throw this out there, for clarity's sake.
I have been reading the comics for a long time, and have also been a pretty big fan of the show. I still think this product is pretty disgusting and unappealing.
Not realyl a significant talking point or really one of any contention. But thought I should clarify for those reading my responses.
Yeah, his doubling down tends to lead to longer and longer posts trying to defend his lack of substance and relevancy as he starts scraping the bottom of the barrel trying not to sound daft.
Okay, here we go. Let's keep in mind that you said "Commander is the only context.
Irrelevant to Commander. The format is littered with cards that are largely unaccessible and yet the format continues to grow and do well. Further to this point, Commander is an incredibly proxy friendly format for this very reason. Whether or not this is a "Predatory business model" is irrelevant to Commander, specifically when it comes to the discussion of "Should these cards be banned?" - which I will remind you, is kind of the centerpiece of this entire thread. This, is the first example of you straw-manning.
Also, irrelevant to Commander, as well as this thread. See the above counterpoint as to why.
I don't know what a silver border has to do with it, other than making it illegal for use in Commander. Which kind of runs contradictory to your statements and issues further on, which suggest that the problem is that these cards are legal everywhere... Once again, the context here has nothing to do with Commander. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder as to how collectables in this game should be handled, and it is rather arbitrary when it comes to Commander and the playability of the format with these cards existing within it.
As I had said before, you are talking about how rare these cards are and how that rarity is a cash grab move, but then you seem to suggest that they are common enough to impact the immerson of games across the globe. Your complaints about this product, really appear to be hyperbole. Is this product too rare for most players to get, or is it too common that the IP bleed is going to cause mass exodus in the format? Which is it?
Your 4th instance of being completely irrelevant to Commander.
See Spoiler for "Your Point #4.
Pretty bold doomsday claim here. Just because they are showcasing collectable cross-IP promotions, doesn't mean they won't be protecting their brand. We are seeing more on-brand products for Commander this year, than ever before. WOTC knows how popular this format is, and they know that it didn't surge because of My Little Pony cards or Godzilla cards. Hasbro has a pretty invested interest in carrying the MTG IP, which is evident by the surge in on-brand product over the last few years.
Conflating the representation of a character killing people in a post-apocalyptic fictional story, to the representation of an actual person who has sexually exploited women, is a pretty poor argument as to why these cards should not exist. Your last few points really appear to be drummed up because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel
[/quote]
See spoiler for "Your Pont #7.
I think things like this are gauged on how players ultimately receive them. So I will end this string of talking points with this - I think it is perfectly okay for people to be turned off by this IP bleed. I think it is cringy as hell, I really disliked the Godzilla cards as well. However, that is a poor excuse for exaggerating the situation and blowing it out of proportion. It is okay to be vocal about it, I have been on numerous reddit threads sharing my distaste for cards like this. But you have taken an issue not really relevant to Commander, and raided this thread and touted that "Commander is the only context." When really, none of your points are specific to Commander and whether or not the RC should ban these cards or if players should try and find an alternative to the RC.
THIS, right here, is why you look so silly. I gave all of these counterpoints in previous posts and you became so defensive that you don't even acknowledge them as counterpoints. You have thrown not only context out the window - but also logic and reason. The breakdown in this conversation (and thread) isn't from me, my man, it is from you. I suggest you learn to keep yourself a bit more grounded.
Oh?
El oh el...
I think you just want to complain and when you are being told your complaints are incoherent, you double down. You are making yourself look kind of silly.
Is the long and short of it. You also have the gall to act like I am where the breakdown in communication is, when you are starting to straw man this entire thread lol.
What a joke.
Some design advice in general, regardless of what you are designing (be it a Cube, or software interface) look for common problems that occur in multitudes, and work on solving those. Don't focus on smaller and more niche problems.
For example, if you want to make Akroma, Angel of Wrath more powerful and Elder Gargaroth weaker - slow down the overall pace of the Cube. If you want to make Elder more powerful and Akroma weaker, speed up the cube.
I don't know what that actually has to do with trying to encourage the abandonment of something like the RC and Commander in favor of something like Captain and a publicly established committee to manage it. This problem isn't specific to Commander, in any way really.
I am going to reiterate my misunderstanding here. I don't understand what the problem with these cards are (as it pertains to Commander and the RC). They do not seem particularly broken. Why are people upset that these are legal in Commander?
I get why people do not like them as it pertains to IP bleed and realistic/relatable art. But that has nothing to do with Commander. You don't see people abandoning Legacy or Modern because of them, or even really threatening to...
The conclusion I am going to come to here is that people crying out for bans really have no legitimate reasoning for doing so and their arguments for why they are advocating abandoning the format and RC, are pretty ridiculous. These are the kind of players who I personally feel should just leave the format. It appears they don't seem to enjoy it enough to come up with stronger reasoning for why these cards are a problem (as it pertains to commander), and ultimately appear to be in denial about how they truly feel about the format.
That might seem harsh, but perhaps the 2 biggest problems I have with commander are:
1. Players feeling entitled to play open games with randoms and cry about playing decks they don't like.
2. Players virtue-signaling this 'love' for the format but do nothing other than complain.
People have seem to have forgotten the days where not everyone played Commander outside of you and your close friends. You didn't like something, you talked to them and everyone often kept each other on the same page. It is almost like players these days don't understand how to properly curate a group who shares similar values.
I don't think I missed the point at all. People are clamoring about making a new RC and canceling Commander and the RC in favor of Captain...
I asked WHY, and your response seems to either have nothing to do with the situation as it pertains to Commander, or they are naive points. I think it is as cringe as the next guy, but this discussion of canceling the RC and Commander is pretty rediculous.
Yet this isn't new. People have been dealing with card availability in MTG since... forever. People will meet this situation as they always have in the format... just proxy them. Exclusivity is nothing new to the game, the only difference is that now it isn't driven by the secondary market. Plenty of companies market on this axis without being called predatory, so why is MTG unable to do the same without receiving backlash?
The product is limited to the point where I think these complaints are just kind of ridiculous to draw the conclusion that they are ruining the game. You are talking about the exclusiveness of the product while simultaneously advocating that it is going to heavily permeate MTG to the point where it is shoved in everyone's face. Talk about speaking in hyperbole.
You know what else lets you say "no"? Curating a playgroup like people did when EDH first got off the ground. I am unsure why so many people seem to think that you have to play the format in an open table setting as opposed to a kitchen table style setting in which the format was birthed. It is rather comical whilst being very confusing.
I still have not seen a single justifiable reason for banning them. Being cringe isn't really a valid reason. Ruining the format is a pretty bold claim.
If you have a fear of missing out on these products, then try to buy them. If you miss out on them, so what? You suddenly cannot play commander and have fun anymore?
Limited print runs also drastically reduces the odds that these cards even make it into your commander experience. So I am not sure the IP bleeding is really a valid argument.
I think the crossover stuff is incredibly cringe. Godzilla cards were pretty gross. D&D crossover sounds even more disgusting. These TWD cards are pretty deplorable.
But to call for the cancelation of the RC over this stuff, seems kind of petty. We have commander players here that loved the Godzilla cards but have never played them. They just stuck them in their show off binder and called it a day. New mechanics also rarely have enough support to spawn a consistent enough deck where crossover cards are going to thematically make a game feel off.
I think people are completely overreacting here.
Some stores still do this, our store had a custom banned list for years. Last year one of the owners sold their share of it and the new owner that came in, had simply scrapped it and went with the official list.
Unfortunately, this dumpster fire is blazin' and there isn't really any way to put it out at this point. The RC is what it is and will almost certainly continue.
And yet the only person responsible for your fun, is still you...
I am not sure why this is such a hard concept for some of you all to grasp, but you can skip structured commander nights at your LGS and instead call or text friends to schedule time to sit down and play, any other night of the week...
This arguments here for how that is impossible, are absolutely comical.