Gonna be pretty honest, I am likely not going to include anything from this set. My testing list is pretty small. But after Mordern Horizons, I am okay with that.
At least in a P1P1. I think JTMS is going to give you a more stable draft overall, but Tinker and Urza have such crazy games sometimes, that I have a hard time just passing them. You can often beat JTMS at his best, you don't get to beat the other two are their best, at least not in my drafting with Urza since he was spoiled. I have seen so much crazy stuff so far.
Obviously as the draft moves forward you can get signals if your artifact deck is open or not. I wouldn't P2P1 it over JTMS unless I had a good P1 draft for it, but definitely P1P1.
I really want to give her a whirl. She is fantastic in Standard... but what gives me pause is the number of sweepers in Cube. I get that you can play around them, but I am pretty skeptical. I would love to hear how it works, or is working for people!
That's high praise. Have you played him in any non-aggro shells?
He has found his way into midrange decks as well. Never seen him in a control deck yet. We have 5 or 6 drafts under out belt with him. Arguably our most talked about WAR card as people are sharing their games.
This has been the biggest set my Cube has ever seen, including ABU cards.
W Winds of Abandon - I am curious to see how this card plays out. My immediate reaction is that this card is not as good as it looks. I have seen people comparing it to Cyclonic Rift and I think that is not a fair comparison by any means. There is a difference between something answering hard to answer permanents and creatures, a card type where there is more than enough playable removal. That being said, I can see this card's ability to be completely one-sides, as a powerful play. I have lower expectations for this card, but I also had low expectations for Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord, and that far exceeded my expectations. Going to replace Settle the Wreckage for now.
U Urza, Lord High Artificer - Urza has been proxied in my Cube for a bit now, I took out Opposition for him. He has done some crazy stuff in the few times he has been drafted. I think the only rough part is when you are not just hitting lands, but also hitting spells that are reactive in nature, like Mana Drain or something. Multiple activation whiffs have certainly gotten some groans out of players.
B Yawgmoth, Thran Physician - Definitely slotting into the 540 module. Going to start with testing it in 450 to see if he does what I want. I was pretty vocal about him not being right for 360 in my eyes. So if you want to know more and have not checked out the thread, you can go do that. I am going to cut Brutal Hordechief for him. I like the Hordechief, but I don't feel he is all that necessary to help push my aggro decks to where I want them.
R Seasoned Pyromancer - We have already been testing this card as well, and I love it. Great for aggressive builds just wanting to filter cards and apply pressure. Great as a discard outlet for decks trying to cheat creatures (or artifacts) into play. The group has been really happy with this addition so far. I cut Sin Prodder for him, but I do miss the red confidant...
G Force of Vigor - 'Free' outs to artifacts is appealing to me, especially in a color that is always looking to tap all of its mana on its own turn. This addition was scouted to help try and offset any Urza tricks, mainly, but it also gets a lot of value for the 'free' price. I am not sure what to cut, but it will likely be Farseek. The ramp I run tends to be artifacts or things like Fastbond and Extraplanar Lense effects. Farseek has just been kind of a random inclusion these days.
Deep Forest Hermit - I am not sure I would call this a strictly better version of Deranged Hermit, but it certainly looks more appealing in various ways. I want to get in more blink effects, because I definitely think it can be abused far better than DH can. So I will likely just do a direct swap.
Hexdrinker - I love how aggressive this card is. Dropping Magus of the Candelabra for it. No particular reason, but I figure if I want to push an aggressive green card, I can remove a ramp effect for it to try and hedge drafts in the other direction.
Wren and Six - I will be working in more for Wildfire decks moving forward. This card seem useful and I hope it gets more people excited to jump into more of a lands matter theme. I will be cutting the beloved Domri Rade.
Sword of Truth and Justice - Really excited for this sward. It can be so nasty and aggressive. Beers will be had the first time it is stuck to a True-Name Nemesis! No idea what I am cutting yet.
Sword of Sinew and Steel - This sword seems bonkers in my powered cube. I tend to lean into planeswalkers a good amount, and recurring removal with some of the best protections seems completely absurd. No idea what I am cutting yet.
Talismans - Directly replacing Signets.
Horizon Lands - I originally was not going to run these, but I have grown fairly excited about them lately. As much as I love the manlands, I think it will be a fresh take to Cube without them for a while and see how things go.
Prismatic Vista - I quickly expect this to be one of the most drafted and played lands. What a sweet fetch! Just dropping Evolving Wilds for it.
This set also has me rethinking a few design changes. I am encouraged to test other cards from other sets and revisit some Cube classics because of it. In addition to the large amounts of Testing and Include cards, this set has been a really historic set for Cube and it has been an absolute pleasure to be here on MTGS with all of you to discuss it!
I really underrated this card, and I think he is probably one of my all-time favorite WB cards. He is in my 360 Module and I don't regret it so far. A player had wanted me to try him over Lord of Innistrad and I am glad I did.
May I ask what template you used? The one I use for everything has a completely butchered frame around the textbox and twins that is covered by the black border.
I think this looks sweet. Good with Narset/Leovold interactions, good top-end for spells matters decks, powerful with Fastbond and sweet with Psychatog.
This card has actually been quite impressive so far. The -X has just gotten so much mileage since WAR was released.
-3 is kind of the bread and butter in our Powered Cube, but you can just value shop for -1 and -2 to keep chaining boards back together. I had initially given this - ability little credit, but with the periodic +2 activation you are 2/3's of the way back up to your next ideal - activation.
It has gotten back so many crazy value stuff, from Rec Sage and Eternal Witness to Recruiter of the Guard, Blade Splicer and Brimaz. You can go higher, but -3 has seemed to be our common sweet spot in the Cube.
I would definitely recommend this over other Sorin variations if you are wanting a bit of extra gas for aggro decks.
I am willing to launch and host a forum and keep hosting for those interested in trying to carry the Cube Community over. I would need some help from anyone interested in helping moderate. But I have had a domain name for a while that I was going to kickstart something on and I would be happy to try and get a Cube community together on a forum.
Respectfully, I think you may be overthinking things in this case. But I also acknowledge that you dont actually need any reason to keep a card from your cube, so, do you my man.
I don't recall ever stating I would keep it from my Cube... respectfully, I don't think you are listening to anything I have said. You are just seeing it as a dissenting view needing a debate.
Why does he have to be an engine for something? Drawing a card and full-to-partial removal on the same ability just seems like an engine to win games. Do you not cube with token generators?
I have 18 cards that produce 1/1's in the entirety of my 540 Cube. Even less in the main 360 card module.
My concern is that in the 360 card module, this card is going to do enough different things that different decks are going to try to draft it. In my experience with my 360 card module, out of all the decks that can push this guy the most, 1 will see play on any given night. Which means the others that would try to draft this, will likely end up leaving it out of their main deck.
At that point, I would want it in the 450 module or the 540 card module. Which I basically stated in my original post on this thread. The card simply does not impress me at 360, I see it getting better in mid-sized cubes because it is more likely to see play at a table where multiple decks are wanting something like this and can get more use out of it with fewer constructive restraints. It isn't about whether I think this card is powerful enough to break into 360...
I think at 360, you can just run better cards that do stronger things in the more narrow situations in which they are good. Either that, or you warp your Cube construction enough to get that kind of benefit at 360 and a multitude of strategies gunning for this kind of thing. I guess the best comparison I can make, is to Storm. A strategy that appeals to a lot of people in my group that I stopped running because pieces were often spread out among the draft group that the deck would never come together as often as I would like. Sure, this is a single card. But I don't like things that taint drafts in such a way.
EDIT
Anyways, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. My opinion on this card is not going to be swayed, because I understand my Cube and I understand my drafters and they are why I would not run this card at 360.
You either understand why I would opt to keep it at 450+ or you don't, and that is fine either way.
Chandra, Awakened Inferno
Voracious Hydra
Kykar, Wind's Fury
Out of the 3, I only really have hopes for the Hydra.
Tinker >>> Urza, Lord High Artificer >>> Jace, the Mind Sculptor
At least in a P1P1. I think JTMS is going to give you a more stable draft overall, but Tinker and Urza have such crazy games sometimes, that I have a hard time just passing them. You can often beat JTMS at his best, you don't get to beat the other two are their best, at least not in my drafting with Urza since he was spoiled. I have seen so much crazy stuff so far.
Obviously as the draft moves forward you can get signals if your artifact deck is open or not. I wouldn't P2P1 it over JTMS unless I had a good P1 draft for it, but definitely P1P1.
He has found his way into midrange decks as well. Never seen him in a control deck yet. We have 5 or 6 drafts under out belt with him. Arguably our most talked about WAR card as people are sharing their games.
W
Winds of Abandon - I am curious to see how this card plays out. My immediate reaction is that this card is not as good as it looks. I have seen people comparing it to Cyclonic Rift and I think that is not a fair comparison by any means. There is a difference between something answering hard to answer permanents and creatures, a card type where there is more than enough playable removal. That being said, I can see this card's ability to be completely one-sides, as a powerful play. I have lower expectations for this card, but I also had low expectations for Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord, and that far exceeded my expectations. Going to replace Settle the Wreckage for now.
U
Urza, Lord High Artificer - Urza has been proxied in my Cube for a bit now, I took out Opposition for him. He has done some crazy stuff in the few times he has been drafted. I think the only rough part is when you are not just hitting lands, but also hitting spells that are reactive in nature, like Mana Drain or something. Multiple activation whiffs have certainly gotten some groans out of players.
B
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician - Definitely slotting into the 540 module. Going to start with testing it in 450 to see if he does what I want. I was pretty vocal about him not being right for 360 in my eyes. So if you want to know more and have not checked out the thread, you can go do that. I am going to cut Brutal Hordechief for him. I like the Hordechief, but I don't feel he is all that necessary to help push my aggro decks to where I want them.
R
Seasoned Pyromancer - We have already been testing this card as well, and I love it. Great for aggressive builds just wanting to filter cards and apply pressure. Great as a discard outlet for decks trying to cheat creatures (or artifacts) into play. The group has been really happy with this addition so far. I cut Sin Prodder for him, but I do miss the red confidant...
G
Force of Vigor - 'Free' outs to artifacts is appealing to me, especially in a color that is always looking to tap all of its mana on its own turn. This addition was scouted to help try and offset any Urza tricks, mainly, but it also gets a lot of value for the 'free' price. I am not sure what to cut, but it will likely be Farseek. The ramp I run tends to be artifacts or things like Fastbond and Extraplanar Lense effects. Farseek has just been kind of a random inclusion these days.
Deep Forest Hermit - I am not sure I would call this a strictly better version of Deranged Hermit, but it certainly looks more appealing in various ways. I want to get in more blink effects, because I definitely think it can be abused far better than DH can. So I will likely just do a direct swap.
Hexdrinker - I love how aggressive this card is. Dropping Magus of the Candelabra for it. No particular reason, but I figure if I want to push an aggressive green card, I can remove a ramp effect for it to try and hedge drafts in the other direction.
Wren and Six - I will be working in more for Wildfire decks moving forward. This card seem useful and I hope it gets more people excited to jump into more of a lands matter theme. I will be cutting the beloved Domri Rade.
Sword of Truth and Justice - Really excited for this sward. It can be so nasty and aggressive. Beers will be had the first time it is stuck to a True-Name Nemesis! No idea what I am cutting yet.
Sword of Sinew and Steel - This sword seems bonkers in my powered cube. I tend to lean into planeswalkers a good amount, and recurring removal with some of the best protections seems completely absurd. No idea what I am cutting yet.
Talismans - Directly replacing Signets.
Horizon Lands - I originally was not going to run these, but I have grown fairly excited about them lately. As much as I love the manlands, I think it will be a fresh take to Cube without them for a while and see how things go.
Prismatic Vista - I quickly expect this to be one of the most drafted and played lands. What a sweet fetch! Just dropping Evolving Wilds for it.
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This set also has me rethinking a few design changes. I am encouraged to test other cards from other sets and revisit some Cube classics because of it. In addition to the large amounts of Testing and Include cards, this set has been a really historic set for Cube and it has been an absolute pleasure to be here on MTGS with all of you to discuss it!
May I ask what template you used? The one I use for everything has a completely butchered frame around the textbox and twins that is covered by the black border.
Sweet jesus I want to draft this deck lol.
-3 is kind of the bread and butter in our Powered Cube, but you can just value shop for -1 and -2 to keep chaining boards back together. I had initially given this - ability little credit, but with the periodic +2 activation you are 2/3's of the way back up to your next ideal - activation.
It has gotten back so many crazy value stuff, from Rec Sage and Eternal Witness to Recruiter of the Guard, Blade Splicer and Brimaz. You can go higher, but -3 has seemed to be our common sweet spot in the Cube.
I would definitely recommend this over other Sorin variations if you are wanting a bit of extra gas for aggro decks.
Anyone interested, feel free to PM me.
I don't recall ever stating I would keep it from my Cube... respectfully, I don't think you are listening to anything I have said. You are just seeing it as a dissenting view needing a debate.
I have 18 cards that produce 1/1's in the entirety of my 540 Cube. Even less in the main 360 card module.
My concern is that in the 360 card module, this card is going to do enough different things that different decks are going to try to draft it. In my experience with my 360 card module, out of all the decks that can push this guy the most, 1 will see play on any given night. Which means the others that would try to draft this, will likely end up leaving it out of their main deck.
At that point, I would want it in the 450 module or the 540 card module. Which I basically stated in my original post on this thread. The card simply does not impress me at 360, I see it getting better in mid-sized cubes because it is more likely to see play at a table where multiple decks are wanting something like this and can get more use out of it with fewer constructive restraints. It isn't about whether I think this card is powerful enough to break into 360...
I think at 360, you can just run better cards that do stronger things in the more narrow situations in which they are good. Either that, or you warp your Cube construction enough to get that kind of benefit at 360 and a multitude of strategies gunning for this kind of thing. I guess the best comparison I can make, is to Storm. A strategy that appeals to a lot of people in my group that I stopped running because pieces were often spread out among the draft group that the deck would never come together as often as I would like. Sure, this is a single card. But I don't like things that taint drafts in such a way.
EDIT
Anyways, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. My opinion on this card is not going to be swayed, because I understand my Cube and I understand my drafters and they are why I would not run this card at 360.
You either understand why I would opt to keep it at 450+ or you don't, and that is fine either way.