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  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Hey guys, did you know rushing is bad? Let It Go

    Just kidding, I actually disagree (to an extent). In the context of how this game was going, taking our time to hear Grape or me would not have made much of a difference, other than causing pointless and boring lulls.

    The entire point of the Day phase is to debate. Argue why you think it's better to flush Player A than Player B. Agree with Player C and disagree with Player D. This keeps town invested and forces scum to take stances.

    But what if the town hubristicly decides they will win by randoflushing in the POE and there is no need to debate? Then there's no need to take it slow either. You are only going to miss some memes.

    This game's result was the logical conclusion of that town hubris, and of a fantastic display of effective distancing by the scum team Day 1.

    So congratulations scum, especially Jack for a tight performance, and boo town, except Eco and Axel you guys did ok.


    Quote from Killjoy »
    It takes a while to get out of the mindset of "this is the way things are, we don't need to examine further." when you're sure. Eventually you see that the thing you were sure of was wrong more often than not.
    I personally have the opposite issue, in spite of what it may seem. I have no certainty about anything, I can see anyone as either town or scum, so I pick arbitrary criteria that I think make sense to try and sort players. Then I go all in gambling on them. Sometimes it works relatively well, and sometimes like here I am the worst analyst of all times.
    Quote from Rhand »
    I feel for ZDS. He’s becoming a popular final mislynch Frown
    This is why I don't want to be alive in FloF (unless I'm town-cleared or whatever), I don't have the WIM to struggle. Shrugs
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    If the game ends now this will have been a very anticlimatic final Day. But that is nice in its own way.

    If the game is not over, elim order should be [KJ/ZDS in any order], [Sloth/Ter in any order], then let the survivors figure it out for themselves while we throw tomatoes from spec chat.

    Quote from Killjoy »
    Now, on ZDS: I'm Beetlejuice, Town Ability Investigator.
    I have a one shot that tells me the classification of a player's role: cop-ish, doc-ish, or not-either-ish (paraphrased). Unfortunately he came up the third result, so he could be the janitor. Obviously this also means that he didn't use his ability if it's real N2. I was kinda hoping for one of the other two results after I saw the flip since that would proclude him from being scum and would be useful. It was not though.
    His rationale for not shooting is believable/fine though.

    ZDS: I'm not immediately seeing you're point on you being cleared. That's the kind of analysis I plan to do on Wed though.
    Also, 1194 is specifically the kind of post I criticized you for never making. lol.
    IDK how you can say three of your PoE has made an effort to scumhunt though. That's BS. IDK about Ter, honestly. Her playstyle is foreign to me and IDK what her scumhunting looks like, but SLOTH? I call BS. He's put no thought into his scumread of me. None. I call BS (a second time, for emphasis.)
    I had a hunch you were going to claim investigative, from how you wanted me to claim on the spot even though the situation is far from critical enough for a mass-claim. I'm glad I didn't use my ability.

    1194 is the kind of post I can do when I have time, which I only have on week-ends (and holidays/vacations). I told you that yesterDay, now you have proof. :-p

    I may not get everything about the inner workings of Ter or Sloth either, but at least I can tell they give a damn about finding and eliminating scum (or they act like it, whatever). They aren't perfectly smooth, polished and edgeless bubbles floating around with barely any remarkable opinion of their own, reflecting whatever they think the town wants to see.

    Quote from TerRaine »
    ...I'm over thinking this but its...weird to me ZDS is Ferris cause I don't think ANYONE got roles that were present in the sign up thread.
    Unless you believe Cantrip waited until after sign-ups to create role flavours, this is entirely irrelevant. :-p

    Quote from Slothful »
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    The vig has been dead for a while, clown.
    Sir, this is role madness.
    So far we have one confirmed aescetic, and another claimed. KJ claimed a weird-ass role, mafia has a BP and a strongman and a janitor. Shrugs
    Whacky set-up spec time: Based on known and claimed roles I think this game is essentially glorified mountainous, with lots of very weak or very situational roles and barely anything the town can claim to clear themselves. Eco's role is the sole exception so far.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    I wish that thread still existed :'(
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side

    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I am a cop!
    I knew it!
    Quote from Slothful »
    Well there's a surprise.



    VOTE: KILLJOY

    I'll check in every now and again to avoid a prod, but this is where we should be going today.
    @ me if you have any questions, I guess.

    So according to you the entire scumteam together started and pushed the small Jack wagon on Day 1?
    That would be extremely bold of Killjoy in particular (the wagon starter), and "bold" and "Killjoy" do not belong in the same sentence.
    Quote from Slothful »

    If we do claim, KJ claims first though.

    I'm sorry for not being sorry for not caring Shrugs .
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I think I scumread Grapefruit more than Killjoy, actually.

    But it’s chill.

    Well you're the cop after all, of course you'd have better reads than a butler.
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I think one of the reasons Rhand ended up being ejected was because one of the scum was absent. Had all three mafia been active, I think they would’ve managed to swing elsewhere.

    After Grapefruit voted Rhand he didn’t show up again until Day 2.

    As a bonus, if Grape is scum that explains why HR was initially so meek Day 2. Grape had "bussed" Rhand and voted him straight away. It's not discriminatory (Sloth could be scum by that standard We-oo-we-oo-weeee-oooooo, keh! ) but it makes sense in terms of team dynamics.
    Quote from Slothful »

    I think it was Dork in the spec of Realms (where I was scum) that was going "why aren't people scumreading sloth for wanting to end the Day early, wasn't he against it in the past?"
    Which just goes to show how little Dork knows how to read me: I haven't been interested in prioritizing the entirety of the Day be used in quite a while - I've seen town talk themselves out of the correct choice way too many times for me to like the idea, and I never have wanted it when the conclusion is obvious and certain (i.e. now).

    Main difference is in Realms (iirc) you said that as a semi-joke in RVS and obviously did not actually care (much), here you are actually trying to maintain a fast pace and prevent pointless lulls.

    ————

    KJ is far more likely to be the mafia's useful idiot than to be scum.
    In terms of actually having a scum agenda and fitting perfectly in a team with both dead scum, Grape >>>(a million >s)>>> Killjoy.

    Therefore I am NOT voting KJ before Grape. I don't care about your 3-players consensus when we could just end the game toDay in a perfect town win.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    I wanted to post this yesterDay but didn't have time before hammer: in a Rhand/HR/X world (which we now know to be true), if I were "X" it would mean on Day 1 I defended my dying buddy while taking jabs / attracting negative attention towards my relatively safe one. This is only possible if I was actively trying to lose the game. 420'd

    Despite now being town-cleared I am going to claim since KJ asks so nicely, I'm Ferris Bueller's Day Off:
    Role: Rolestopper, I turn my target and myself into ascetics for the Night.
    Targets: Nobody N1, No one N2.
    Why: Because firing blind could mean preventing an investigation or a protection.




    Anyway, my POE pool was Grape/KJ/Sloth/Ter. Three of these players have made clear efforts to scumhunt and figure out the game, while the other one only has one notable scum read and it's an unusually and extremely simplistic one.

    The same player had the strangest progression on Rhand, calling the whole bunch of nothing that is 271 "good", then voting & unvoting him over the Jack's-readslist-confusion-thingie, shows explicit resistance to burying Rhand while having him as null, and finally does get convinced to vote him 1~2 days before deadline, as his last post of Day 1. If he truly considered Rhand merely "null", barely had any scumread at all, and had no issue voting over a fairly small detail, then why was he so reluctant to vote?
    Relevant links: Apparently calling everything NAI is good-posting, quick vote and explanation and unvote, does not want to vote Rhand, null on Rhand (bonus: his only scumread is Sloth and is sheeped from KJ), defending Rhand (without calling him town), coming to terms with voting Rhand

    The same player had a town-read on HR for nothing else than meta, when he is perfectly capable of townreading HR for non-meta reasons, and while HR was not playing like his usual town-self (who is nitpicky and laser-focused to an annoying extent).
    Relevant links: Very superficial meta townlean on HR, defending HR (implicitly for meta) (bonus sheeping KJ's Sloth vote), more superficial meta read

    The same player barely had any scumread Day 1 where he wasn't sheeping someone.
    Relevant link: Only original """scumread""" I found

    The same player spent Day 2 tunneling me for not wanting Rhand dead while being paranoid he is wrong about everything (in response to the lack of traction his me-case was getting)... yet didn't change his reads.
    See: pretty much all his Day 2 posts.

    The same player has decided to scumread me regardless of whether this makes sense.
    — He entered Day 2 with "a PoE of ZDS+[Sloth/HR/Ter]": a Rhand/ZDS/HR team makes no sense (see above), and Rhand/ZDS/Ter would have meant Ter and I 1) gangbanged Eco, 2) defended our buddy to the bitter end even though it could only attract negative attention towards us, 3) killed Eco to make sure 1&2 make us look even worse 420'd . Only Rhand/ZDS/Sloth would have made some amount of sense, mostly from lack of significant interaction between Sloth and I.
    — According to him I "should have embraced the Jack pressure" because "saving a town read [is better] than foolhardily pushing a scum read". This makes no sense as I would then be sacrificing a town read to save another town read.
    — He goes as far as to tie me to HR with no explanation given.
    Relevant links: Nonsensical POE, "ZDS should have wagoned Jack" non-sense, tying me to HR (+bonus TMI?)

    The same player, if you have been paying attention, had a townlean on HR and was nonplussed about flinging him into the horizon (including playing "devil's advocate" to defend his reaction to the red check, a great way to push pro-scum ideas without taking responsibility for them), yet we are supposed to believe he had him in his POE at Day 2 start.
    Relevant links: "To play devil's advocate, Defending HR's reaction

    If you haven't figured it out or clicked any link yet, the player I am talking about is Grapefruit. He is the player most likely to be scum #3. Kill me if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.

    Vote: Grapefruit

    I will now catch-up past the beginning of the Day.
    (Preview edit: Sorry about the giant wall)
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    So, this seemed familiar:
    Quote from Highroller »
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I'm kind of interested in pursuing worlds where Highroller is town, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

    Highroller, can I get an updated state of the game from your POV?
    Sure.

    1. Axelrod
    2. gooLagoon
    3. Grapefruit21
    4. Highroller
    5. Jackrito
    6. Killjoy
    7. Slothful
    8. TerRaine
    9. ZeDorkSlipeur
    *COUGH* "updated state of the game" *COUGH*
    Quote from Highroller »
    Current Gold/Silver/Bronze for lynch choices:

    Gold: TerRaine
    Silver: Jackrito
    Bronze: Tie, Rhand and Axelrod
    So yeah, HR is still in anti-spew mode and fakes content by repeating old reads.

    So far this is Let It Go -ing.

    The important information out of this is that Axel and Jack were both "scumread" by the two known-or-caught scum, including before the anti-spew started, so I'm adding Axel to the spewed-clear list (where Jack already is).

    ———

    Quote from Killjoy »
    Thus is the crux of my problem with your slot, ZDS. Your reads COULD go anywhere, which is a place scum like to be in and town generally don't naturally arrive in. It's a thousand posts in and you don't have any hard stances.

    Are you willing to commit to a read anywhere at all? You've made arguments for where scum can't be, so where ARE they?
    You are being unfair.

    YesterDay, my scum reads were Eco, HR, and for a short while Axel-instead-of-Eco. Eco is dead, HR is about to be, and the Axel read came from a misunderstanding. Is it that surprising I don't have another scumspects queued up?

    Furthermore, there is no reason to single me out for not having strong non-HR scumreads. Off the top of my head I can only think of Sloth, Grape and HR himself having those. Ter and Goo are sheeping Sloth, and Axel, Jack and you yourself all "could go anywhere".

    And third, have you heard of our Lord and Saviour POE? Clearing players is useful, it's not like I'm pulling an Highroller and putting nothing new on the table.

    In conclusion if you want to scumspect me for opposing the Rhand wagon it's fine, but that argument is horse*****.

    (When I have reads I('ll) let it be known. I have not been shy about speaking my mind so far, I am not going to start now.)
    Quote from Killjoy »
    I'm leaning the third is ZDS atm. He hasn't really committed to any reads 1000 posts into the game, and now he's making an argument that it's dangerous to look at the Eco wagon for scumspects, which mostly just precludes him (and a little Ter).
    Please tell us, what do you plan on doing if/after I die and flip town? Will you press the eject button on Ter's seat, looking for the scum you apparently believe there had to be in the Eco wagon? And if she flips town, who will be next? Axel? Goo? How long do you plan on chasing that wild goose?

    While you are at it, why don't you also tell us why you seem so confident we should "look at the Eco wagon for scumspects"? I think my analysis using wagon dynamics and known-or-caught scum behaviour was pretty solid, do you have anything other than a vague assumption?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    • I'm Ferris Bueller's Day Off (and I'll be amazed if scum, or anyone, can guess my role from that).

    • Exclusive insight from an Eco-wagon insider:

    The Eco wagon sucked in terms of momentum. It was arguably the first wagon, depending on if you count Ter's early interrogating of Eco as her voting-in-spirit, and yet it barely ever got past the background-noise level. At the end of the Day, the choice wasn't between Rhand and Eco. Pragmatically speaking, it was between Rhand and no one.

    There is evidence of scum dismissing the wagon very early. By "evidence" I mean confirmed-scum Rhand and soon-to-be-confirmed-scum Highroller both townreading / defending Ecophagy. That's two out of three, and it is not a stretch to hypothetise scum #3 also did not want to have anything to do with it. Or if s/he did, s/he had no expectation of the wagon going anywhere.

    On the other hand, the same "evidence" (Rhand and HR) points to the sudden Jackrito wagon as an attempt to save Rhand. Not to say it was necessarily created with that intent, but this is what it became (before fizzling out).

    Therefore it is very dangerous to look for who could be scum in the Eco wagon, when chances are the scum were completely uninvolved. In this situation it is better to be open-minded (not like me sometimes).


    • IMO the ridiculousness of Sloth wanting credit for the Rhand flush is a point in Sloth's favour. I assume scum-Sloth would have solid arguments why Rhand's death makes him town, not a weird mix of ego-centrism and self-unawareness.


    • Highroller posted content! It's mostly posturing but it is content! HR, out of your three scumreads, which two do you think are scum?


    • Re "who did the mafia kill", are we forgetting Igno was a bodyguard?

    ———

    Quote from Axelrod »
    Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
    Three players stuck to the Eco wagon to the bitter end: good old me, and Ter and Axel.
    Well, in fairness to me, Highroller beat me to the hammer by literally two seconds. And I already said I would move the vote. I was not "sticking on Eco." until the bitter end.


    Fixing quotes.
    I didn't look past the final votecount.
    Quote from TerRaine »
    Pressure vote. I am willing to vote either of them. I prefer HR actually but I didn't want to push him into hammer territory before everyone showed and had their say.
    Did the pressure work? Did your naked vote result in anything interesting?
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Yeah ZDS I am trying to figure you out. I was hoping for more than just two players though, like a whole worldview post because at the moment your reads could go any way they felt like.
    My reads are in constant motion, although due to tunneling / confbias I tend to return where I came from. But sometimes I don't and I completely reverse my stances, which is always fun and exciting! But anyway, like I said before I haven't done any serious rereading yet.
    (I think I answered your other question above, otherwise ask me again in a clearer way)
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @ZDS yes you had voted Eco earlier, doesn't change the fact that your posts at the end of day read like an effort to keep Rhand alive moreso than an effort to kill Eco. I'm just probably wrong about everything though. But that's okay because I don't think everyone else is.
    My order of preference was 1) ejecting Eco, 2) ejecting no one, 3) ejecting Rhand. Ejecting Eco didn't look like it was going to happen, so I was getting ready for the no-ejection.
    So... your interpretation is correct, although I had no ill will and was only completely fooled by Rhand's brand new strategy (playing like a clueless newb).
    Quote from TerRaine »
    How do we summon ZDS? It a say his name 3 times situation or do we just make up a new one and scream it into a oncoming storm?
    It's easy, all you have to do is wait for evening time in GMT+1. Teach
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Vote: Highroller

    (separate post for emphasis)
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    • In reaction to my (lack of) wagon: I was expecting to get vigged, or if not then turbo-wagonned into oblivion. It seems like only Grape thinks like I do, which is somewhat worrying: assuming my townread of Grape is correct, then why aren't the scum interested in me? Or is it that they are not interested in me yet?

    To answer whether scum-I could have done what I did Day 1, yes I could have (if I was in a playful mood and not that interested in winning the game). This is moot since I'm town but in the abstract Grape is right, and in any case I should not be alive in FloF if we get to that point.

    That being said, Grape, I would like to remind you I started going after Eco long before Rhand was in any danger. So "[my] motivation was [more] to protect Rhand than to push Eco/Axel" does not make sense.


    • To answer Killjoy: Three players stuck to the Eco wagon to the bitter end: good old me, and Ter and Axel. Both Ter and Axel were "scumread" by Rhand, both of them for crappy reasons (Ter for having different reads than Rhand, Axel for agreeing with Goo's reads) that could easily be made-up.

    If there is a woof between the two of them (which is not certain), then based on Rhand's posts it would be Ter. Rhand was mainly going after Goo, and had it worked he had already sowed the seeds to chainflush Axel. That being said if we end up in a situation where the POE is between Axel and Ter I advise against relying on such wine.


    • Ter, why did you vote KJ in 959 when in 955 you double-down on HR being obvscum?


    • Highroller acting like he was intentionally letting himself die to "reveal that [Goo] was lying" is laughable.

    Highroller, what happened to your scumread on Ter? Also, are you still townreading Goo after this?


    • I like Axel's big posts, they are like watching the 8 hours 3 movies 48 frames-per-second high budget version of my own short-story reads.

    By the way Axel, have you considered going off the beaten path and doing analyses of players who aren't already getting wagonned?


    • Current reads (haven't gotten around to rereading yet, I will on Saturday regardless of the Day still being on):

    Spewed clear:
    2. gooLagoon, 5. Jackrito

    Subjective townreads:
    1. Axelrod, 3. Grapefruit21, 7. Slothful

    Townreads as well but not enough to escape the POE
    6. Killjoy, 8. TerRaine

    Scum
    4. Highroller

    Had Eco not died I would probably be going after him in addition to HR, but since he's dead I don't have a non-HR scumread yet.

    Sloth and Axel went up from yesterDay for their posts toDay, KJ went slightly down for insisting there had to be scum in the Eco wagon and apparently relying on me to tell him who (maybe he's trying to figure me out, but how is my stance on Axel/Ter going to help him do that?).

    ————

    Quote from Cantripmancer »
    Votecount 2.2

    "Any special message for all the kids watching at home?"

    "Take me to bed, or lose me forever."


    Highroller (3): Grapefruit21, Jackrito, Slothful
    ZDS (1): Killjoy
    Killjoy (1): TerRaine

    Not Voting (4): Axelrod, gooLagoon, Highroller, ZeDorkSlipeur

    With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eject!

    Day 2 deadline is Thursday, February 18th, at 4:15pm MST.

    Please inform me if there are any errors in votecounts.

    If you have a question for me, the most consistent way to quickly get my attention is to ping me on Discord.
    I was voting HR, Grape is voting me, and KJ wasn't voting anyone (or I missed it).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    I don't think there will ever be a safer bet than HR based on his reaction and his going into anti-spew mode, but I'm glad to learn I was (also) right yesterDay on that claim being a meme (or was it?... who cares).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    No need to worry ladies and vagoos, for I am here!

    Vote: Highroller (E-1) : Mainly because of the 420'd reaction to Goo's claim ("I trust the uncounterclaimed cop with a guilty result on me!"), also because I was scumreading him yesterDay and I want some vindication after the fiasco my other reads were.

    Fun fact: Despite posting several times already, Highroller's only content toDay has been his claim. No reads, no opinions, just "kill me now". I kind of expect him to self-hammer to shorten the Day (little does he know I agree with Sloth we shouldn't let things drag on).


    • I was expecting to get vigged last Night so I didn't do a full reread. I did reread the beginning of the game before Rhand started posting content, because I still believe scum-Rhand is capable of faking reads and content — which means he did not want to create content.

    My conclusion is there is most likely little to no notable scum involvement pre-#271 (not to say they didn't post, but what they did post did not make an impact) and Rhand did not want to get in the way of our infighting and time wasting.

    Also I agree with KJ(iirc) that Jack and Goo are spewed clear (independently of any cop claim).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Rhand (4): Slothful, Ecophagy, gooLagoon, Grapefruit21
    Ecophagy (3): Axelrod, ZeDorkSlipeur, TerRaine
    Jackrito (2): Highroller, Rhand

    Not Voting (2): ignoramus, Jackrito, Killjoy

    If we end up no-condemning which looks to be where we are heading, future flips will make this situation very telling. There's obviously town ego at play (refusing to vote someone you think will flip town), but it's also clear there's no(t enough) scum-driven inertia to push a misflush.

    I don't know yet what it means (maybe scum are offline, maybe they are happy with the situation, maybe somehow the scumteam is Rhand/Eco/Jack We-oo-we-oo-weeee-oooooo, keh! ).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Quote from Ecophagy »
    Quote from ZDS »
    1) Strawman-swiping at Eco and (not so) implicitly defending him are the same thing, right?

    The swipe was at me offering mitigation for TerRain's scummy behaviour, it wasn't a scum read on me at all. He's implicitly defending me by attacking my attacke and making similar scum reads as me. He hasn't outright said he thinks I'm town, but he certainly doesn't want me dead.
    This is the post in question, right?:
    Quote from Highroller »
    Currently listening to: "Take on Me" by a-ha

    Sorry guys, it's been a pretty eventful weekend. I'll have to post a more substantial post tomorrow, I just wanted to comment on this.

    Quote from Ecophagy »
    That TerRaine didn't go for the kill but instead kind of drifted off to other things looks more towny than not. Not enough to push her into the green for me, but enough that I'm thinking I might be conf biasing and I want to see more data.
    We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool.
    I should have checked this when you made your readslist, when it was more relevant.
    You said: "I think mafia-Highroller would be more interested in courting my cooperation (say, with leading questions about what I thought about TerRaine) rather than just dump on me."
    First, "We're arguing that hedging doesn't exist and/or is definitely town? K, cool" hardly counts as dumping on anyone who isn't Ter.
    Second, HR's goal regardless of alignment was ostensibly to counter a pro-Ter argument and reiterate his own anti-Ter argument. How does one court your cooperation while keeping these goals in mind, in a context where you were wavering on Ter? (Preferably in a way that's in-character for HR).

    All I'm getting from this is a better understanding of HR's townread on you (simplistic ennemy-of-my-ennemy stuff), which makes me doubt my Ecoroller woofwoof theory. The point still stand that whatever it is HR was doing he was not defending you, implicitely or otherwise, in that particular post. Unless I pulled the wrong quote, which I did not, it is an atrocious twist of logic to claim otherwise.

    Overall 655 doesn't move the needle for me.
    Quote from Ecophagy »
    I know you're having a lot of trouble with me here and you're going to be angry at me post-game. But for someone who is so aware of the evils of confirmation bias you could really do taking a step back - instead of deciding that it is inconceivable that I am town and just constructing a scum read based on that assumption.
    Keep that to yourself, it's condescending. After how much I've flip-flopped about you, including unvoting you at the peak of your wagon's momentum, do you seriously believe I am constructing a scum read on you based on the assumption you cannot conceivably be town? No, I keep doubting and you keep triggering my scumdar.
    And when have I ever been angry post-game at townies I mis-scumread? I know it's been a while but hello, do you remember anything about me?


    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from Jackrito »
    On Rhand I find his level of play this game frusateing they is little real scum hunting. They is a lot of complaints and being over defensive though. He starts off with a early defend of Eco,to Ter which is one of the more consistent parts of his play. After that he mainly complains about nothing happening and wants others to do his work for him.

    Wants others to do my work for me? Where did you get that idea from?
    Maybe from "ZDS save us" or "someone please vote me" (not exact quotes obv.)
    Quote from Rhand »
    I still feel like he’s very open in explaining his thought processes, which is very hard to do as mafia.
    Speak for yourself, I'm so open about my thought processes as mafia I'm practically gaping. (Ok maybe not, but point is it's not hard for everyone and is more of a playstyle tell)


    Quote from Killjoy »
    @Eco: TBH I was hoping for a pat on the back having caught Jack. The read on Rhand appeared from nowhere, and like I said, Rhand might be scum, but Jack def is for the gymnastics needed to justify that vote on Rhand. I'd rather got for the sure thing.

    I remember Jack in Prison Block, and his posting had very clear, if rambly thinking behind it.

    But talk to me about 625. You (should be) currently scumreading Jack, and you think Rhand is scum. Wouldn't flipping onto Rhand when Rhand wasn't very high in his PoE be exactly what scum!Jack would do?

    @ZDS: It could be both bussing and opportunistic though. Jack would have been tracking buddy!Rhand's transgressions and when the tide was impossibly out of favor he cobbles them together in a scumread and votes.

    Also AFAICT he was very lightly scumreading him up until 569. I outlined his whole progression in 592, do you disagree with that?

    Were you townreading Jack prior to this? Refresh my memory.

    @Vaimes: How significantly would my interrogation change him though? I would expect a similar naturalness to come from him even during that. A casualness perhaps?

    @Rhand: Now that youy're caught up: reads list?
    Matter is a much better example of Jack's town meta. In Prison Block, past Day 1, he was basically regurgitating the opinions I was feeding him in cell (neighbour) chat.

    I mostly don't mind his progression on Rhand, and AFAICT you seem to have an issue with the fact he's had a progression at all. A read does not necessarily progress from weak to strong, it can fluctuate and shift, and the fluctuations in Jack's Rhand read appear fairly organic especially considering town-Jack is easily influenced (see above re: Prison Block meta). The only issue I do have with his progression is how it vaguely parallels the overall town's progression, which may not be AI for him (see previously).

    And yes I have a light town read on him. He's doing his thing, analysing the game at his own pace, listening to the opinions of others. It's hard to commit to a strong town read without flips but what he's shown so far as been completely fine in my view.

    Actually I'm not sure that was his intent but Eco put down a very good argument why Jack is most likely town (in 674, for future rereading reference).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    ZDS is arguing that I’ve been priming myself to bus both of my buddies just to get one villager killed? So what, I can endgame? That is a terrible take. Not to mention that using Daylight to work on my weakest scumread is something I find more productive than sitting on Highroller or Ecophagy.

    As for Rhand’s claim, it doesn’t really do anything from me.
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    I only bus buddies when I struggle for content or when I think they look bad. I distanced from ZDS in PBII because he was very inactive Day 1, and then I flipped it to a townread once he dug his roots into the game.

    TerRaine I don’t remember, I think I either gave her a bland townread or kept her at null.

    ZDS’ hypothetical Lagoon/Ecophagy/Highroller team is bad because I don’t want to endgame, Ecophagy isn’t lurking or playing badly or under a ton of pressure, Highroller has been getting meta passes, and the only way I would believe ZDS believes it’s a viable team is if he just came out of a coma with total amnesia. A scumteam made of the three of us would sweep.

    Calm your vagoo, that link falls appart if at least one of Eco or HR is town, and even if they are both woofs it does not justify executing you. Don't get all frantic like you are already seeing the grim reaper.

    ... unless you really are seeing the grim reaper, I guess. Shrugs

    Also: "Eco isn't [...] under a ton of pressure" Laugh Is that so?
    (Well, I guess Rhand is still more likely to die as of right now, but hopefully that will change before deadline)

    ———

    Side note, if Eco flips scum I will be 4 out of 5 at making my first serious vote in a game on scum (since my return from hiatus and obviously not counting my one scum game).
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Feelgood 80's Movie Mafia - Game Over: The Power of the Dark Side
    Putting that out there for future reference.
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Other general, scattered thoughts [mostly from this page]--

    Maintaining my TerRaine townread. Based off memory alone, she's one of the few trying to squeeze content out of this gif-infested thread.

    Highroller/Ecophagy/Rhand team? A little less sure on Rhand, because no one has really been attacked for the naked vote there.

    I neither like nor believe Highroller's vote on TerRaine. Lots of charged and overly-dramatic language, which makes me doubt that Highroller doesn't know Ecophagy's alignment.

    I think Jackrito is town. His early rambly wall feels genuine, and he's already sticking his neck out more than he did in his last scumgame. That Ecophagy was calling people out for liking Jackrito makes me even more sure he's town. Small nitpick, but I could see a world where scum!Jackrito is buddying me due to my claim, but other slots' reactions to Jackrito makes me doubt that world.

    I don't think I have any stronger opinions elsewhere. I'd like to see more serious reads/votes/content from Slothful and Grapefruit. Axelrod gets a minor pass from me because I never know how to townread his Day 1 play.
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Quote from gooLagoon »

    I neither like nor believe Highroller's vote on TerRaine. Lots of charged and overly-dramatic language, which makes me doubt that Highroller doesn't know Ecophagy's alignment.
    This appears to be it.

    Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.

    You think he's chainsawing Eco?
    Quote from gooLagoon »
    Quote from Killjoy »
    This appears to be it.

    Is he scum because you're townreading Ter and he's voting him? And I wouldn't be surprised if the overly dramatic language is just how he talks. He's made one post that fits that description so far.

    You think he's chainsawing Eco?
    A little of A, a little of B.

    I think he's scum because his view of her play feels incredibly warped, and I don't like how uber-protective of Ecophagy he is. It does not look like it's coming from an early Day 1 villager.

    Even though I have stronger scumreads on him and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment. I don't really buy the "boo hoo I don't know what to do" song and dance from him. He can do literally anything to throw people in a tizzy and get content going. Right now he can comment on Jackrito's wall, Highroller's vote and defense + TerRaine's response, ZDS' general mannerisms, my claim and reads, and so on.
    "Even though I have stronger scumreads on [HR] and Ecophagy, I'd like to tease out Rhand's alignment" is kind of terrible on its own, and if I'm right on Eco&HR being woofwoof and Rhand being town then this is definitely a woofwoofwoof post: distancing from both buddies while working to get town kicked out.

    ———

    Jack, if you are town, you need to work on how insanely easily articulate (scum) players can pocket you. First Prison Block 2, now this.
    Posted in: Mafia
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