Thanks for the report. You bring up good points. The one thing I’ll say is wishing for Trinisphere against UR Phoenix is probably a good move. I don’t know how relevant it is in other matchups, as I’ve never played with it yet, but you want to bring it in against decks that have a lot of 1cmc spells. However, I agree in that it doesn’t seem like it’s a card that will ever win you a game singlehandedly, just slow it down, but that also requires pressuring your opponent or else it’s useless. Might be better off with another tutor target or Magus, Jaya, etc.
GB Rock has usually been a tough matchup for me because discard will destroy certain hands. Sometimes you keep a dream hand of double ritual, SSG, Chalice, Chandra, and Mountain, only to get Chandra Thoughseized and your Chalice getting blown up by Trophy. Now they have an active Liliana or a big Goyf and now your only out is Bridge and a finisher. Discard and mainboard removal that kills anything is good. Some games, Moon does nothing and is close to a dead card.
Cutting Moons down to 2 was a local meta thing because I was facing more than half red decks every week. Going back up to 3 felt right for a bigger event, but red is just so prominent right now that I felt comfortable leaving the 4th one out.
I also went to GPLA this past weekend. Posted a 3-2-1 on Friday MCQ and went 9-6 in the main event. Went with a Boros list. -1 Moon, -1 Ritual, -1 Warboss, +4 Eidolon, +1 Jaya main, along with 2 Lava Coil and 1 Abrade for interaction. 2 RiP, 2 Stony, 1 Ravenous Trap, 3 Molten Rains, 1 Declaration in Stone, 1 Abrade, 2 Anger, 1 Spellskite, 1 Torpor, 1 Spyglass was my SB.
Rd. 1 - Bye
Rd. 2 - Mono-Red Phoenix, won - guy got a game loss and had to replace his sleeves; Chalice on 1 got there
Rd. 3 - BG Rock, won - game 1 and 3 Moon got there. Sided in Molten Rains, Dec in Stone, Skite, and a RiP. Close game. RiP helped turn off Goyf and minimized Kalitas’ impact. Took out bridges, not sure if correct, but with the Eidolons, I just wanted to keep the pressure up and keep him off a color.
Rd. 4 - Hardened Scales, lost - mulled to oblivion game 1, stomped game two. Needed Bridge to have a chance.
Rd. 5 - Storm, won - double Eidolons games 1 and 3 made it impossible for opponent. Sided in RiPs and Trap, removal and Skite, sided out Bridges and Moons.
Rd. 6 - Mono Green Stompy, lost - this one stung. Game one got aggroed out on a mull to 5 without a Bridge, he had no idea what I was playing since all I did was play a single Mountain. Sided in removal, sided out Moons and some Goblins. Won with a Bridge and Chandra emblem. Game 3, got a Chalice on one, got a Bridge out, but couldn’t dump my hand fast enough while he was smacking me with small guys. Then the worst punt of the weekend happened when he went to combat to swing all out and I forgot my Chalice trigger when he casted Aspect of the Hydra on an unblocked attacker. Felt reeeaaalllly bad. Very favored matchup.
Rd. 7 - Living End, won - game 1 hid behind Bridge and Chandra got there. Sided in RiPs, trap, Torpor, Skite, sided out Abrade, Eidolons, and a number of Chalices. Early Moon and Rabble got there.
Rd. 8 - Whir Prison, won - early Moon and pressure got there. Opponent showed a grip of 3 whirs in his hand that were uncastable. He bemoaned the match up, which is great because this was my win and in. Sided in Stonys, Skite (nonbo alert), 1 RiP, Abrade, spyglass, and Molten Rains, sided out Bridges, coils, and a couple Chalices. Sat behind a Moon and a Jaya and flung cardboard.
Rd. 9 - Izzet Phoenix, won - Chalice on one plus bridge got me there game 1 with Chandra, game three Jaya killed a flipped Thing in the Ice and a Ral and flung cardboard behind a Chalice on 1. Had removal for follow up creatures. Sided in Trap, Angers, Skite, Dec. in Stone, sided out Abrade, a Goblin and Moons.
Ended day one 7-2.
Rd. 10 - Eldrazi Tron, won - game one early moon shut down him casting things but I couldn’t find pressure. He drew into an Oblivion Sower, but I hid behind a Bridge and ticked up a Chandra, praying he didn’t have Karn or Ulamog, and thankfully getting there. Sided in Molten Rains, Skite, spyglass, Torpor, Dec in Stone, and Abrade, sided out Chalices, Eidolons. Hindsight, should’ve brought in a Stony or two, forgot about Ballista and Ratchet. Whoops. Game two he ran me over with double Mimic into TKS into Smasher. Game 3 got an early Bridge down and Chandra got there after we traded resources to keep the board clear.
Rd. 11 - Izzet Phoenix, won - double Eidolons in games 1 and 2 got there.
And here’s where the wheels fell off the wagon.
Rd. 12 - Mono Red Phoenix, lost - opponent did what they do, early pressure that I couldn’t recover from. Chalice on one wasn’t good enough, as Skewers still hurt. Sided in Dec in Stone, Abrade, Skite, Angers, sided out Moons and a couple Goblins. Game 2 I got a turn two Chalice on 1, but his first turn Swiftspear did like 10 damage by itself. Bridges and Chalices were swept away by a Shatterstorm, followed by an Experimental Frenzy. I couldn’t present enough damage and got burned out.
Rd. 13 - Dredge, loss - game one I mulled to 5 and didn’t play more than a single Mountain. Sided in Dec in Stone, RiPs, Trap, Skite, Angers, and Torpor, sided out Eidolons and Goblins and Abrade. Game 2 he scooped to a turn three RiP. Game 3 was slow on both sides, with neither of us finding pressure, but eventually he got the ball rolling, I had mana problems and couldn’t pitch my hand fast enough to get under Bridge and lost.
Rd. 14 - Dredge, loss - opponent wins on a god hand mull to 4, faithless into dredgers in the yard turn 1, triggers and chills turn two dredge, and just snowballs. Game two, same problem as previous game where I couldn’t get under Bridge due to lack of mana and no graveyard hate.
Rd. 15 - Grixis Death Shadow, loss - not as bad as my punt day 1, but this was the second feels bad of the weekend. Game one Chalice on 1 plus Rabble gets there. Side in Skite, Dec in Stone, RiPs, side out Goblins and Abrade. Game two I turn two Molten Rain his Blood Crypt off a SSG and Gemstone, and turn three Hazoret with an empty grip, feeling good that it can’t get Stubborn Denialed...but he has his 2-of Dismember and crushes my dreams. Game 3 mull to 5 and don’t remember much except dying to 2 large shadows. At one point I think he KCommanded my Chalice, brought back a milled Snapcaster and I knew I was toasted.
Overall, fun weekend, deck is powerful and still love it, but ending on 4 losses in a row was a bummer. Felt bad to lose to two favored matchups but good to beat Rock and Eldrazi Tron. Managed to dodge some horrendous matchups.
Thanks, Cali! Yeah I may be underestimating how many free wins Blood Moon will get...maybe just bump it up to 3 moons instead
I’ve been meaning to try out Jaya but can’t get myself to cut one of the two MB Hazorets. They’ve just won too many games, especially against red and black decks that have no way of removing her, that I can’t imagine a fragile 2/2 being better.
Michael Margelisch posted a top 8 finish at the MCQ in Strasbourg over the weekend. Very promising. I’m like 80% to play something very similar to his build at GP LA. I see that he trimmed a ritual and I may follow the same lead, but contiuning to trim 2 moons in anticipation of seeing loads of Mountains. I’m gonna stick to my guns and leave the Molten Rains in the side because they’ve gotten me out of so many jams. 3 of top 8 at MCQ Strasbourg being Rock is kind of disconcerting and I still hate our chances against blue control decks, but I love that it’s consistently putting up numbers.
Thanks for the response. I’ll consider hopping back into Warbosses and increasing threat density by reducing spot removal main.
What has your matchup with UR Phoenix been like? I feel like a way to deal with TitI and the Drake has been super important, as we can lock them out with a Bridge, but once they find their Abrade or artifact removal, they can one-shot us with the amount of power they represent. I’ve found Lava Coil to be great at this. I’ve also reduced the number of Blood Moons to two because of the sheer amount of red decks I’ve been playing lately. Haven’t really regretted it but it could just be my local scene.
Hey ShowTime, congrats on your recent success! Been meaning to talk about your decklist on here for a while now. Really liking your build and your reasoning for removing the 1-for-1 removal spells makes sense. I’m concerned about matchups like Devoted Company or Storm though, where killing their creatures on the spot is imperative. I’m currently on 3 Abrades, 1 Lava Coil in the main, and while yeah, some matchups they’re dead cards, I hate the idea of just auto-losing to a creature or artifact combo piece because there aren’t any outs in my deck. Thoughts on that?
Love the inclusion of Jaya and will try to throw her in to test. I love that she can potentially speed up the clock along side Hazoret or Chandra, and that she can clean up problematic creatures (barring your opponent has no interaction). What are some of your favorite things you can do with Jaya?
Finally, I’m running the 4 Eidolon main like you, but instead of the Warbosses, I’m running 2 Scab-Clan Berserkers and an additional Hazoret. What are your thoughts on Scab-Clan? I felt like I chose it over the Warbosses because I wanted to improve my control and combo matchups, get some more guaranteed damage in, as the Goblins don’t seem to last very long, for good reason.
It’s great having you here and congrats again!
Edit: congrats to you too, xbankx! I’ll have to try out Dismembers but I’m kind of with ShowTime in that I love Eidolons main and can’t imagine running both cards, as that would be extremely painful
Any mathematicians out there know the difference between 8 rituals vs 9? I’m wanting to cut down to 8 to add another threat, because I feel like a lot of the games I lose are because I don’t present a fast enough clock.
Thanks for the write up, Midn8
EDIT:
Yes, Hazoret is a beast and getting her out ahead of curve against decks not playing Path sometimes feels unbeatable. Considering going down a Chandra to play 2 Hazoret main, but honestly both 4-drops are amazing.
Agreed. If there was a time to play the deck, now is a good time. We’ll see what Ravnica Allegiance brings.
Managed to 3-1 tonight against Mill, UR Phoenix and Eldrazi Tron, losing to UW Control. Bridge against Eldrazi is super good but Endbringer can easily ruin your day, so it’s not a lock. A lot of lists run Karn or Ulamog too. Felt like I sided in Spellskite every match up. Eidolons against Phoenix were kill on sight for them.
I think it helps to look at those original lists for this deck and count the number of threats they run - it’s usually between 12-14. This deck plays like a midrange deck. You have the control elements to escape the early game (barring t1 rabbles) but your lock pieces will usually only get you so far without pressure before your opponents break out and roll you with card advantage and/or superior card quality. You really can’t afford to go lower than 12 threats or you just up your chances of bricking draw after draw and giving your opponent time.
I also went to GP Oakland, going 2-3 and 3-3 in the PTQ/MCQs (got convinced to play Tron in main event; mistake). Had a blast playing pyro prison and will continue to test it through GP LA. I’m running 4 Abrade and 4 Eidolon main to deal with problem artifacts and better game against combo, cutting a Moon and 2 Warbosses.
While I love the deck, matchups against UW, Jeskai, Devoted Company, Jund, and Rock seem unwinnable, which will prevent the deck from getting over the hump. I have a couple Molten Rains in the side but I don’t think it’s nearly enough. On the plus side, I haven’t lost to Spirits yet, and managed to beat Dredge, GDS, Tron, UW Mill, and Hollow Phoenix.
Big thanks to Wolfie, Ray, and Russ for the work and getting me and others into this deck!
EDIT: I’m guessing you upped the Chalice count to 4 main because you’re almost never Karnwishing for it?
I also went to GPLA this past weekend. Posted a 3-2-1 on Friday MCQ and went 9-6 in the main event. Went with a Boros list. -1 Moon, -1 Ritual, -1 Warboss, +4 Eidolon, +1 Jaya main, along with 2 Lava Coil and 1 Abrade for interaction. 2 RiP, 2 Stony, 1 Ravenous Trap, 3 Molten Rains, 1 Declaration in Stone, 1 Abrade, 2 Anger, 1 Spellskite, 1 Torpor, 1 Spyglass was my SB.
Rd. 1 - Bye
Rd. 2 - Mono-Red Phoenix, won - guy got a game loss and had to replace his sleeves; Chalice on 1 got there
Rd. 3 - BG Rock, won - game 1 and 3 Moon got there. Sided in Molten Rains, Dec in Stone, Skite, and a RiP. Close game. RiP helped turn off Goyf and minimized Kalitas’ impact. Took out bridges, not sure if correct, but with the Eidolons, I just wanted to keep the pressure up and keep him off a color.
Rd. 4 - Hardened Scales, lost - mulled to oblivion game 1, stomped game two. Needed Bridge to have a chance.
Rd. 5 - Storm, won - double Eidolons games 1 and 3 made it impossible for opponent. Sided in RiPs and Trap, removal and Skite, sided out Bridges and Moons.
Rd. 6 - Mono Green Stompy, lost - this one stung. Game one got aggroed out on a mull to 5 without a Bridge, he had no idea what I was playing since all I did was play a single Mountain. Sided in removal, sided out Moons and some Goblins. Won with a Bridge and Chandra emblem. Game 3, got a Chalice on one, got a Bridge out, but couldn’t dump my hand fast enough while he was smacking me with small guys. Then the worst punt of the weekend happened when he went to combat to swing all out and I forgot my Chalice trigger when he casted Aspect of the Hydra on an unblocked attacker. Felt reeeaaalllly bad. Very favored matchup.
Rd. 7 - Living End, won - game 1 hid behind Bridge and Chandra got there. Sided in RiPs, trap, Torpor, Skite, sided out Abrade, Eidolons, and a number of Chalices. Early Moon and Rabble got there.
Rd. 8 - Whir Prison, won - early Moon and pressure got there. Opponent showed a grip of 3 whirs in his hand that were uncastable. He bemoaned the match up, which is great because this was my win and in. Sided in Stonys, Skite (nonbo alert), 1 RiP, Abrade, spyglass, and Molten Rains, sided out Bridges, coils, and a couple Chalices. Sat behind a Moon and a Jaya and flung cardboard.
Rd. 9 - Izzet Phoenix, won - Chalice on one plus bridge got me there game 1 with Chandra, game three Jaya killed a flipped Thing in the Ice and a Ral and flung cardboard behind a Chalice on 1. Had removal for follow up creatures. Sided in Trap, Angers, Skite, Dec. in Stone, sided out Abrade, a Goblin and Moons.
Ended day one 7-2.
Rd. 10 - Eldrazi Tron, won - game one early moon shut down him casting things but I couldn’t find pressure. He drew into an Oblivion Sower, but I hid behind a Bridge and ticked up a Chandra, praying he didn’t have Karn or Ulamog, and thankfully getting there. Sided in Molten Rains, Skite, spyglass, Torpor, Dec in Stone, and Abrade, sided out Chalices, Eidolons. Hindsight, should’ve brought in a Stony or two, forgot about Ballista and Ratchet. Whoops. Game two he ran me over with double Mimic into TKS into Smasher. Game 3 got an early Bridge down and Chandra got there after we traded resources to keep the board clear.
Rd. 11 - Izzet Phoenix, won - double Eidolons in games 1 and 2 got there.
And here’s where the wheels fell off the wagon.
Rd. 12 - Mono Red Phoenix, lost - opponent did what they do, early pressure that I couldn’t recover from. Chalice on one wasn’t good enough, as Skewers still hurt. Sided in Dec in Stone, Abrade, Skite, Angers, sided out Moons and a couple Goblins. Game 2 I got a turn two Chalice on 1, but his first turn Swiftspear did like 10 damage by itself. Bridges and Chalices were swept away by a Shatterstorm, followed by an Experimental Frenzy. I couldn’t present enough damage and got burned out.
Rd. 13 - Dredge, loss - game one I mulled to 5 and didn’t play more than a single Mountain. Sided in Dec in Stone, RiPs, Trap, Skite, Angers, and Torpor, sided out Eidolons and Goblins and Abrade. Game 2 he scooped to a turn three RiP. Game 3 was slow on both sides, with neither of us finding pressure, but eventually he got the ball rolling, I had mana problems and couldn’t pitch my hand fast enough to get under Bridge and lost.
Rd. 14 - Dredge, loss - opponent wins on a god hand mull to 4, faithless into dredgers in the yard turn 1, triggers and chills turn two dredge, and just snowballs. Game two, same problem as previous game where I couldn’t get under Bridge due to lack of mana and no graveyard hate.
Rd. 15 - Grixis Death Shadow, loss - not as bad as my punt day 1, but this was the second feels bad of the weekend. Game one Chalice on 1 plus Rabble gets there. Side in Skite, Dec in Stone, RiPs, side out Goblins and Abrade. Game two I turn two Molten Rain his Blood Crypt off a SSG and Gemstone, and turn three Hazoret with an empty grip, feeling good that it can’t get Stubborn Denialed...but he has his 2-of Dismember and crushes my dreams. Game 3 mull to 5 and don’t remember much except dying to 2 large shadows. At one point I think he KCommanded my Chalice, brought back a milled Snapcaster and I knew I was toasted.
Overall, fun weekend, deck is powerful and still love it, but ending on 4 losses in a row was a bummer. Felt bad to lose to two favored matchups but good to beat Rock and Eldrazi Tron. Managed to dodge some horrendous matchups.
I’ve been meaning to try out Jaya but can’t get myself to cut one of the two MB Hazorets. They’ve just won too many games, especially against red and black decks that have no way of removing her, that I can’t imagine a fragile 2/2 being better.
What has your matchup with UR Phoenix been like? I feel like a way to deal with TitI and the Drake has been super important, as we can lock them out with a Bridge, but once they find their Abrade or artifact removal, they can one-shot us with the amount of power they represent. I’ve found Lava Coil to be great at this. I’ve also reduced the number of Blood Moons to two because of the sheer amount of red decks I’ve been playing lately. Haven’t really regretted it but it could just be my local scene.
Love the inclusion of Jaya and will try to throw her in to test. I love that she can potentially speed up the clock along side Hazoret or Chandra, and that she can clean up problematic creatures (barring your opponent has no interaction). What are some of your favorite things you can do with Jaya?
Finally, I’m running the 4 Eidolon main like you, but instead of the Warbosses, I’m running 2 Scab-Clan Berserkers and an additional Hazoret. What are your thoughts on Scab-Clan? I felt like I chose it over the Warbosses because I wanted to improve my control and combo matchups, get some more guaranteed damage in, as the Goblins don’t seem to last very long, for good reason.
It’s great having you here and congrats again!
Edit: congrats to you too, xbankx! I’ll have to try out Dismembers but I’m kind of with ShowTime in that I love Eidolons main and can’t imagine running both cards, as that would be extremely painful
Thanks for the write up, Midn8
EDIT:
Yes, Hazoret is a beast and getting her out ahead of curve against decks not playing Path sometimes feels unbeatable. Considering going down a Chandra to play 2 Hazoret main, but honestly both 4-drops are amazing.
Managed to 3-1 tonight against Mill, UR Phoenix and Eldrazi Tron, losing to UW Control. Bridge against Eldrazi is super good but Endbringer can easily ruin your day, so it’s not a lock. A lot of lists run Karn or Ulamog too. Felt like I sided in Spellskite every match up. Eidolons against Phoenix were kill on sight for them.
I think it helps to look at those original lists for this deck and count the number of threats they run - it’s usually between 12-14. This deck plays like a midrange deck. You have the control elements to escape the early game (barring t1 rabbles) but your lock pieces will usually only get you so far without pressure before your opponents break out and roll you with card advantage and/or superior card quality. You really can’t afford to go lower than 12 threats or you just up your chances of bricking draw after draw and giving your opponent time.
I also went to GP Oakland, going 2-3 and 3-3 in the PTQ/MCQs (got convinced to play Tron in main event; mistake). Had a blast playing pyro prison and will continue to test it through GP LA. I’m running 4 Abrade and 4 Eidolon main to deal with problem artifacts and better game against combo, cutting a Moon and 2 Warbosses.
While I love the deck, matchups against UW, Jeskai, Devoted Company, Jund, and Rock seem unwinnable, which will prevent the deck from getting over the hump. I have a couple Molten Rains in the side but I don’t think it’s nearly enough. On the plus side, I haven’t lost to Spirits yet, and managed to beat Dredge, GDS, Tron, UW Mill, and Hollow Phoenix.
Big thanks to Wolfie, Ray, and Russ for the work and getting me and others into this deck!