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  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    Very true. Combine that with the current mulligan rule and you see Astrolabe coming out turn one in nearly every game you play against it. I hope it goes tomorrow but I wouldn't put money on it. Frown


    From a psychology standpoint, most Magic players are tasteless jackals that want to show you, "Their Cool Thing(tm)" at your expense.

    Meaning that they prefer to play a solitaire deck and Louis C.K. you with it instead of actually obeying the game's rules or interacting with their opponent. For example, decks like Hexproof and Tron.

    Wizards knows this and that's why they periodically make Hogaak and Rotting Regisaur and other obvious mistake cards. Because it gives people the ability to play with cheats enabled, which is what most Magic players like doing.

    All Magic players are the kid that gets shot with a toy gun going, "Nuh-uh, but I'm wearing a bullet proof vest so I'm not dead." They're not interested in playing a fair game, just a game that's fun for them at the expense of everyone else.

    "Nuh uh, my creatures are hexproof and can't be targeted!"

    It's why Arena is best of one, it's why drafts on Arena are against bots instead of real humans, it's why Hexproof replaced the elegant Shroud, it's why Commander is one of the most played formats despite being the worst balanced one, it's why everyone hates Kamigawa and Homelands, etc. Anything that reduces the amount of interaction your opponent has with you and the less the rules matter, the more people like it.

    So port this to Pauper and there you go. They could very easily make Pauper fun, fair, and interactive but most Magic players are of the paste eating variety so infinite flicker loops and 5 color good stuff it is.

    I only cube now. Only cards I enjoy, and none of what I hate. Constructed Magic sucks.

    My friend asked me what my favorite card is last night. I had to think about it, and I ended up looking through my cube to find out. Dash Hopes is my favorite card. It's a very well designed card and the fact that most Magic players think otherwise proves my point. People hate this card specifically because it has interaction and decision making built into it. And that's why it's a well designed card.
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on Ideal curves and number of cards
    I find it's best to stop caring and just put whatever cards you want in your cube. No need for complex formulas.

    Furthermore, having certain decks show up 90% of the time kind of defeats the whole point of cube.

    What I would do if I really wanted to push aggro would be to take one color and just make that the aggro color. Depending on the power level of your cube, just fill it with as many 1 mana 2/2's and 2 mana 3/3's or whatever and cards like Skittering Skirge as possible
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    One thing that often gets glossed over in discussions about Astrolabe is that it gives one the capability to run an entirely ETB untapped mana base.

    So it has really sped up these five color decks to not be much slower than mono color decks.

    Whereas if something like the Khans trilands were downshifted to common, one would still have to wait a turn to have mana ready.

    This 5 color ***** has always been pauper legal really, (there are like 3 unique common printings of Rupture Spire under different names, for example), but it's always been clunky and that's what has kept it back.

    Now you get the upside of Rupture Spire without any of its downsides. It's dumb. Price aside, it's just as bad if not worse than if they just allowed ABUR duals into Pauper.
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on New to cube building
    Quote from schweinefett »
    Oh mine is a urza legacy and earlier cube. So plow under et al aren’t really ‘legal’. I do have dark banishing, terror, swords though. Not sure if there should be more removal.

    I’ve found that the most powerful turn 1 play in this cube is black lotus, land, juzam djinn.

    But the most powerful deck is UR artifacts, with goblin welder, tinker and transmute artifact as enablers, grim monolith, time vault, phyrexian colossus and voltaic key as sorta payoff cards.

    I don’t play enough of other people’s cubes to know if mines too good stuff. Is there a way to theoretically see if it’s synergistic or more good stuff?


    Upload your cube to cubetutor and trade some drafts with people. That's a good way to find out.

    I'd love to trade some drafts with you, your cube seems like one I'd like. I'm a big fan of old creatures that do weird things.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    We disagree about why it's a problem but at least we agree that it needs to be banned. That's good enough for me.
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    I know you are okay with Astrolabe but I hate the card. It shows up everywhere, in every deck and I am so sick of the bounce shenanigans with Skyfisher and Glint Hawk that it makes the game NOT fun for me.

    Same old handful of decks, same old cards, same old abuse shenanigans. Its stale period.


    No, I'm not okay with Astrolabe. I want to make that clear, I think it should be banned.

    The issue I have with it isn't the bounce shenanigans (I like midrange so the old Boros Monarch deck, MBC, and other grindy interactions are healthy for the format IMO). It is just a 1 mana Prophetic Prism.

    The issue that I have with it is that you can just play whatever colors you want now. That's the real problem. Even if/when Ghostly Flicker/Ephemerate/Displace/Mystic Sanctuary are banned, a 5 color good stuff pile will still be the best deck. There is far more competition for deck slots now, far less viable cards as a result, and much of the charm and uniqueness of Pauper and some of its flagship decks have been lost because we have perfect mana now. That's the big issue, not using it to draw an extra card or two with Kor skyfisher.

    I don't actually hate things based on how popular they are. If preordain cost 1 generic mana and every deck ran 4 I wouldn't care. It's only when these cards are ruining the format do they become problems.

    Like, I think Hexproof should be universally banned and retroactively replaced with Shroud even though Bogles isn't the most popular deck. It's still bad game design regardless of how popular it is.
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    A whole format distilled down to 8-9 cards. That's not an increase in format diversity, that's a reduction. One of the defining characteristics of Pauper was that you were generally limited to 1-2 colors. Now you just play whatever you want which means that, for example, every removal spell that's not Skred or Lightning Bolt is now unplayable garbage. Every creature that's not Seeker of the Way or Kor Skyfisher is garbage. Every fog that's not Prismatic Strands is garbage. Etc.


    You hit the nail on the head. Astrolabe also shows up in everything as well. Its the #1 card played in the competitive meta. I'd be okay with its ban as long as we got a slightly better land base to play with at common. Fact is diversity of cards will shrink until as you say there are only a few cards being played competitively. Thats a recipe for dull if you ask me.


    My motto is that everything that Magic players hate is good for the game. Being restricted to 1-2 color decks and having to actually work for more colors is something that Pauper players hate because there is nothing that a Magic player hates more than actually playing the game and obeying its rules.

    IMO the fixing was just fine beforehand.

    So now we have perfect mana in Pauper and the whole format has been reduced to the best 8 good stuff cards and whatever 1 mana 2/2's that green and red can play.

    What a great format. >_>
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on The Peasant plus idea
    It's not really about rarity, it's about power level.

    So if you're playing ABUR duals + fetches but you're only using them to shove Benalish Hero and Gurmag Angler, it doesn't really matter. Context is important.

    You don't need approval from this forum to do anything. If you replaced your pauper/peasant fixing with rare fixing it wouldn't matter. It honestly wouldn't. If I found a Bog Wreckage in a Vintage cube pack I'd still take it if I needed fixing or there were no on-color picks or worthwhile hate drafts left.

    If you swapped the fixing between the MTGO Vintage cube and your average Pauper cube it wouldn't really matter that much. I don't really buy that aggro decks don't want ETB tapped lands. An entire deck of them, sure, but 1-2 is fine. Want to know what also slows an aggro deck down? Not having BB to cast skittering skirge with your Rakdos deck because you just drew a mountain instead of a guildgate.

    I run rare fixing because I like the art on some of the cards and they have synergy with other fixing lands and cards like Gush and Tithe. Otherwise I'd run cloudcrest lake and bog wreckage and Ancient Spring. It's not really relevant how good your fixing is or even if you play any or not.

    The way your average cube is constructed you don't actually need any fixing if you're okay with mono or dual colored decks 90% of the time and decks being a little less consistent.

    I've dropped Pauper rarity. I get to play more of mechanics that I enjoy and my environment hasn't been ruined by rares or whatever because I try not to put much if any broken cards in my cube.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on The State of Pauper
    IMO the state of Pauper is garbage now and the only people still playing it are those that are delusional enough to think it's fine.

    In my 4-5 years of playing X-Wing and my 1.5 years of playing Pauper, there is always a vocal group of players that enjoys abusing degeneracy and not having to obey any of the core rules of the game. They dig their heels in and after a while they make up the majority of people that are still playing.

    When I played X-Wing, certain things would have upwards of 60% meta shares and people still would still refuse to acknowledge that there was a problem.

    Wizards did the right thing by banning Gush/Probe/Daze, but they didn't go far enough and hit Ghostly Flicker/Displace. And then they threw gasoline on the fire (twice!) with Ephemerate & Astrolabe, and Mystic Sanctuary.

    The double flicker cards are too abusive.

    Mystic Sanctuary, even without flickers, is probably still too good with deprive.

    Astrolabe in and of itself isn't broken, and I agree that just because it's played in everything doesn't mean it's ruining the game, however because of it the best Pauper deck will always be a 5 color good stuff pile. No matter what they ban, the best deck in pauper will always be: 20~ lands, 4 astrolabes, maybe 4 prophetic prisms, and whatever the best 8 cards in Pauper are.

    A whole format distilled down to 8-9 cards. That's not an increase in format diversity, that's a reduction. One of the defining characteristics of Pauper was that you were generally limited to 1-2 colors. Now you just play whatever you want which means that, for example, every removal spell that's not Skred or Lightning Bolt is now unplayable garbage. Every creature that's not Seeker of the Way or Kor Skyfisher is garbage. Every fog that's not Prismatic Strands is garbage. Etc.

    Also, I don't put much weight on the few dozen people that play this format online. No one really takes this format seriously and you can get pretty far with a fair deck facing others who also have mistakenly played fair decks. So it doesn't really mean much to me that MBC or whatever occasionally places high. It's still playing second fiddle to these abusive flicker decks.
    Posted in: Pauper
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I have 71 arcane cards in my cube out of 650 total cards. Splicing isn't very difficult. It's hard to go crazy with it, but it's not that hard to splice Reweave or whatever a few times if you build towards it. Plus, something like Terashi's Grasp is just normal disenchant except it costs an extra mana, so most of the arcane spells are playable whether or not you get additional value from splicing.

    The last time I drafted the amount of spirits and arcane I had in my deck was enough to put 7 Ki counters on Skullmane Baku. Yes, my environment is that slow and grindy lol.
    At that point aren't you just better off running a smaller cube? Normally it's not a big deal, but at 71 arcane cards you don't have much choice of which ones to play (there's only 93 arcane cards in existence).

    And if your cube is THAT slow and there's not many ways to get CA, I would really hesitate to add a trampleless Warhammer, as it inflates your life to a ridiculous extent, especially as most of your creatures are small. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of games with an unanswered Warhammer goes to decking.


    1.) I like all of the cards in my cube and wouldn't want to cut most of them.

    I also like having more variance. One thing about 360 sized cubes is that you see the same deck every 3-4 drafts. I want each time to be a unique experience.

    2.) Maybe. I don't have that much life gain in my cube, and if I'm going to have things like the Owling Mine combo in my cube (did 13 damage to a friend with an Iron Maiden once lol), I feel that having a little lifegain to balance it out is fine.

    I also like long drawn out games that end with decking or close to it. It means the game has stayed interactive throughout, and it also means that the 3-4 mill cards I have in my cube are actually somewhat reasonable.

    Instead of playing 3 games, why not one or two bitter struggles?

    I'm probably alone with this opinion, but the concept of Shahrazad-> Snapcaster ->Shahrazad makes me excited.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »
    Oh, it's not that the disenchant has no targets and is maybe dead (although that can be a separate issue), it's that having the disenchant in the first place, when the hammer is about to run away with the game, is up in the air.

    Why would the subtype "arcane" be of value? Are your games slow enough and is the percentage of cards in the cube that say arcane high enough for it to come up frequently?
    Quote from Leelue »
    Oh, it's not that the disenchant has no targets and is maybe dead (although that can be a separate issue), it's that having the disenchant in the first place, when the hammer is about to run away with the game, is up in the air.

    Why would the subtype "arcane" be of value? Are your games slow enough and is the percentage of cards in the cube that say arcane high enough for it to come up frequently?


    Yeah, I get what you mean.

    I have 71 arcane cards in my cube out of 650 total cards. Splicing isn't very difficult. It's hard to go crazy with it, but it's not that hard to splice Reweave or whatever a few times if you build towards it. Plus, something like Terashi's Grasp is just normal disenchant except it costs an extra mana, so most of the arcane spells are playable whether or not you get additional value from splicing.

    The last time I drafted the amount of spirits and arcane I had in my deck was enough to put 7 Ki counters on Skullmane Baku. Yes, my environment is that slow and grindy lol.

    I like Splice onto Arcane and Arcane matters because it's sort of "spell tribal". It adds an extra layer of depth to drafting what would otherwise be vanilla cards like doom blades, disenchants, shocks, snaps, etc.

    One thing I don't like is cards that provide infinite/tons of value. So I try to stay away from buyback, retrace, token generators, etc. Splice Onto Arcane can net you multiple uses of a single spell but requires that you actually earn it, not just shove Pack Rat or Sprout Swarm or Cenn's Enlistment.

    I also have a similar, if not greater amount of COK Block spirits in my cube, so there are cards that benefit you when you play other spirits or arcane cards, so it's not *just* splicing that the arcane subtype is good for.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »
    3) While I would accept the charge that I'm both that clever and that cheesy to say such a thing, I didn't nail that one.

    2) My issue with relying on disenchants is that it often feels like a binary issue. Do you have it y/n? Busted creatures die or are at least silenced in many ways.

    1) If erratad to not have trample, I would playtest it. It may drop to underpowered but dangerous, but my cube is underpowered anyway.


    I used to feel this way, but after making colorless artifacts the "6th color" and upping the power level of them and enchantments moderately, main decking A/E hate has become less binary and normally you can bag something with your A/E hate card.

    I also have a fetish for arcane cards, so when someone plays a Wear Away or Rending Vines to kill my icy manipulator or whatever, I get excited. So I weirdly like that disenchants become a little more viable. The same attitude that makes me want to include One with Nothing and makes me excited to see how niche lines of play work also lends disenchants some novelty.

    Maybe it's just because I'm used to constructed Pauper where disenchants are kind of novelties even as sideboard cards.

    I try not to have any 'must answer' cards. I am pushing the envelope with my fetish for the Owling Mine combo and cards like Stasis however, so the temptation is there.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »
    There is no consensus on the hammer.

    Some people, such as myself, think that it is unreasonable when unanswered either by timely blowout removal or by fortunate naturalize effects. Some people think that both of those situations come up enough as to make its average case scenario fair-ish.

    I dont appreciate such swingy gameplay


    1.) Do you think it gets reasonable without trample? Or would it still be too good for you? I put in O-Naginata as a sort of more reasonable version of LWH and then bought a foil LWH anyways, so I sharpied off trample from LWH to give them more of a distinction. I haven't seen it in a draft yet, so I haven't been able to test it.

    2.) I do have enough disenchants and such that I feel safe playing artifacts or enchantments that are kind of pushing it, but I still don't want to go too far however with things like un-eratta'ed Umezawa's Jitte. Plus, since most of the A/E destruction cards are arcane or spirit spells, it further incentivizes splice and spirits/arcane matters.

    3.) You don't appreciate such swingy gameplay? Was that pun intended?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    What is the consensus on Loxodon Warhammer?

    Too good? Just reasonable? Costs too much to play/equip?
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on The Official Cube Discussion Thread
    What's the craziest thing to happen to you guys in a cube draft recently?

    Last time I drafted my opponent had Psychatog + Bottled Cloister going. For a few turns I had to chump it to prevent myself from dying, and then I drew Yuki-Onni and destroyed the cloister. He then RFG'ed his whole hand (which I didn't realize would happen, I assumed for whatever reason he would just get his cards back), chumped it with Goblin Cohort, and killed it with Crushing Pain. He could have saved it by exiling his entire graveyard and the few cards he drew in the turns after the cloister got destroyed, but he opted not to discard his whole hand. Next turn I would have been able to kill it with the 7 ki counters I had stored up on Skullmane Baku.

    He got down to 6 cards in library and finally got in with Arashi, the sky asunder and Cloudhoof kirin beats. I played Enter the Dungeon on him when he got to 6 cards but my friend/store owner told me you don't autolose the main game, just the subgame. I think that's wrong but whatever, still a crazy game.

    EDIT: Just looked it up. You do only lose the subgame, not the main game for having less than 7 when you enter a subgame.

    The -onni cyle is pretty nice actually, especially with damage on the stack. They're a more exciting version of hate bears.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
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