Well, not playing it all that well and having poor draws + poor matchup(s) didn't help. Since then it goldfished quite well and last night in a testing session I managed to beat Mardu Shadow through disruption, going 2-1. It felt pretty solid that they can only interact via discard and despite having tidehollow scullers in addition to the usual suspects, it didn't seem to be so bad. As usual, discard only works if you back it up with a clock. It's still a lot of fun to weasel yourself out of a sticky situation and comboing off against the odds like with JAC, but removing most of the angles of disruption available against JAC.
@arcane7828
Fair enough. It is indeed pretty strong to have a land serve 2 purposes and I might play 1 as my 21st land or even 2 if I also replace an island. Having it as 'the tutor' I think is an issue though, as mentioned before, because it requires so much land and is so slow. With spells like Shimmer, Ideas and Peer (or the cmc1 cantrips) you'd also love to be able to set up your combo turn on turn 2 so if you play a ton of taplands, that will be hard to do.
Having played a sideboarded game with Thing in the Ice and thinking about it some more, I feel like I'd rather play Aria of Flame instead. This deck is not particularly good at flipping thing as it doesn't play manamorphose and doesn't want to just spew twiddles. Yes, if they board out all removal it's great but how many decks can really do that? Also, would a smart opponent not consider Thing and leave something in? Just not playing any creatures at all and having an enchantment, something that generally needs a more specific, less frequently played card to remove could be safer and thus more likely to succeed. Added bonus is that Aria can slowly kill a Narset or other annoying planeswalkers.
I know this has been mentioned before but I haven't had a chance to play test but how about the Kiki-Jiki combo in the sideboard?
So last night I did some play testing with the Kiki-Jiki combo out of the sideboard but I wasn't really all that impressed. It went off a few times but to get enough untap abilities and mana to cast the combo was alot actually plus it fizzled alot.
I am going to play the twiddle deck tonight in a competitive format at my local store. Thursday nights all the best players comes out for a mini tournament. I thought crackling drake could be a interesting card since it should be pretty big and also draws me a card.
Well, not playing it all that well and having poor draws + poor matchup(s) didn't help. Since then it goldfished quite well and last night in a testing session I managed to beat Mardu Shadow through disruption, going 2-1. It felt pretty solid that they can only interact via discard and despite having tidehollow scullers in addition to the usual suspects, it didn't seem to be so bad. As usual, discard only works if you back it up with a clock. It's still a lot of fun to weasel yourself out of a sticky situation and comboing off against the odds like with JAC, but removing most of the angles of disruption available against JAC.
@arcane7828
Fair enough. It is indeed pretty strong to have a land serve 2 purposes and I might play 1 as my 21st land or even 2 if I also replace an island. Having it as 'the tutor' I think is an issue though, as mentioned before, because it requires so much land and is so slow. With spells like Shimmer, Ideas and Peer (or the cmc1 cantrips) you'd also love to be able to set up your combo turn on turn 2 so if you play a ton of taplands, that will be hard to do.
Having played a sideboarded game with Thing in the Ice and thinking about it some more, I feel like I'd rather play Aria of Flame instead. This deck is not particularly good at flipping thing as it doesn't play manamorphose and doesn't want to just spew twiddles. Yes, if they board out all removal it's great but how many decks can really do that? Also, would a smart opponent not consider Thing and leave something in? Just not playing any creatures at all and having an enchantment, something that generally needs a more specific, less frequently played card to remove could be safer and thus more likely to succeed. Added bonus is that Aria can slowly kill a Narset or other annoying planeswalkers.
I know this has been mentioned before but I haven't had a chance to play test but how about the Kiki-Jiki combo in the sideboard?
I just wanted to say that I played Monday night at my local store and went 3-0 with the SCG Dallas List of Harlan Firer. My sideboard was slightly different because I didn't want to break the decks down but it still worked out. I only dropped one day out of the 3 matches. I think his deck list is pretty fined tuned for everything. I did beat Naya Burn, R/W burn and Grixis control that night.
So I have been playing this deck on the side at my local store and I will say I have problems with U/W control. I have added Flusterstorm to my sideboard and defense grid.
I notice at the SCG Dallas open the deck made a top 100 and I had a bunch of buddies play in the event and they believed the deck would of done great there. A typical storm deck made a top 16 at the event.
If i may ask, what were the key cards that were countered? Would boseiju who shelters all have helped?
The players that I have counter key moments when I play a spell to untap my land. Also the U/W decks are playing Narset, Parter veils which stops the card draw and sideboards are starting to leyline of santicity.
So I have been playing this deck on the side at my local store and I will say I have problems with U/W control. I have added Flusterstorm to my sideboard and defense grid.
I notice at the SCG Dallas open the deck made a top 100 and I had a bunch of buddies play in the event and they believed the deck would of done great there. A typical storm deck made a top 16 at the event.
Second turn play the field and go off at instant speed. When you decide you have enough storm and mana you can let the lands sac and use the mana floating to finish off the opponent.
Basically land turn 1. Prefered a depths, but any will do. Turn 2 play the field and play either Twiddle or Grip to untap it. Next thing you want to do is cycle any nonland card. Wraiths are free and the others untap field. After you go through your cycle cards you use your instant arcane spells and splice untaps on them. This should draw you to Shadows. Cast shadow and pull back your cards to recycle all of them again. Go back to casting and splicing until you get another shadow. Repeat until your storm count is high enough. Then sac your lands and proceed to grapeshot them into oblivion.
Note that because the deck can kill on turn 2 it can for all intended purposes wait until turn 3 or later.
The deck has 2 grapshots because the cycling doesn't add storm count. You'll often have to cast both in the same tune to be able to win. I'd like to add in a past in flames to build storm count after you've made lots of mana to either dig for grapeshot or add storm count.
So I either missing something but you have nothing in the deck list that allows you to drop a extra land on turn 1 or turn 2 so you can get a lotus field on turn 2 to go off. Also most of the cards you need 3 mana to keep the arcane/splice loop going. Even if you twiddle a signle card that's not lotus field, you are not netting any extra mana.
I think I get it now--megatog201 suggests playing Lotus Field on Turn 2 and doing stuff with the Lotus Field sacrifice trigger on the stack. Mid-combo, you'll lose Lotus Field to its own ability.
Ah I get it, well I like to see some result or testing done. I think there are a lot of moving parts and I think turn 3 with all the bannings will be fine. I rather shoot for consistency and worry about cards that really hurt this deck .
I think U/W control and Jeskai control will be big and narset parter of veils will be bigger which really hurts this deck. Also I think Leyline of Sanctity will be more prevelent too in sideboards.
Second turn play the field and go off at instant speed. When you decide you have enough storm and mana you can let the lands sac and use the mana floating to finish off the opponent.
Basically land turn 1. Prefered a depths, but any will do. Turn 2 play the field and play either Twiddle or Grip to untap it. Next thing you want to do is cycle any nonland card. Wraiths are free and the others untap field. After you go through your cycle cards you use your instant arcane spells and splice untaps on them. This should draw you to Shadows. Cast shadow and pull back your cards to recycle all of them again. Go back to casting and splicing until you get another shadow. Repeat until your storm count is high enough. Then sac your lands and proceed to grapeshot them into oblivion.
Note that because the deck can kill on turn 2 it can for all intended purposes wait until turn 3 or later.
The deck has 2 grapshots because the cycling doesn't add storm count. You'll often have to cast both in the same tune to be able to win. I'd like to add in a past in flames to build storm count after you've made lots of mana to either dig for grapeshot or add storm count.
So I either missing something but you have nothing in the deck list that allows you to drop a extra land on turn 1 or turn 2 so you can get a lotus field on turn 2 to go off. Also most of the cards you need 3 mana to keep the arcane/splice loop going. Even if you twiddle a signle card that's not lotus field, you are not netting any extra mana.
I think U/B mill just got better with all the bannings. I think decks will slow down and U/b mill should be pretty solid. Also SFM adds a reason for them to search which helps archive trap and mission briefing.
These builds look okay, but I wonder if you could push it to a turn 2 win rather than depending on turn 3 at the earliest.
While this is just theory crafting I would suggest something closer to this.
The deck looks interesting and good, I don't agree with the 3 drop creature that cycles. I have never really needed that ability to untap a permanent.
I played this last saturday annd went 3-1 with the deck and just destroyed for th emost part. I beat mono red phoenix, counters company, u/r phoenix and lost to Tron.
The tron game was decided on a dice roll, I beat him game 1 and game 2 I got land screwed and game 3 he turned 3 a karn knocking off my second land so I can't lotus field.
I am going to try a variant tonight running 4 street wraiths and tune sideboard a little bit. I don't play online but I am 7-1 at my local card stores and they are very competitive decks. I would say people have noticed the deck where I am and do not want to play it.
I'd like to try out streets wraiths tonight then expedition maps on another variant when I get time.
The more I see videos on the deck, I think U/R is probably the way to go. White seems interesting to run cards fragmentize to deal with artifact and enchantment hate and Teferi for control decks but I don't know if that is a big deal.
Red you get burn to deal with Narset, abrade for artifacts and echoing truth can bounce anything so I donn't know if it is even needed. Your additional win cons are all red spells as of now.
Boseiju seems subpar to me because it will always get sacrificed to Lotus Field if we combo off on Turn 3, and some combo turns have to start off with a 2-mana untapper.
Why not play some number of Shimmer of Possibility for digging purposes, it is generally not as good as Peer but can help find Field which is important.
Merchant Scroll has been everything from the 5th Psychic Puppetry to a mid-combo dig spell to a bounce spell. It's expensive, but I don't want to ditch it.
I have actually seen Shimmer of Possibility in some builds. I've replaced my copy with Anticipate for now in case I ever need to Hail Mary a Merchant Scroll into a chance at a Lotus Field, but Shimmer of Possibility actually didn't really fail me in this deck.
Maindeck Aria of Flame would definitely save sideboard slots, but it's worse than Ral, Storm Conduit when it only appears late into the combo. Hmmmm...
Pyromancer Ascension does seem like it will get active quite quickly in this deck if it's drawn early, but unlike Aria of Flame, it cannot dodge graveyard hate.
I like merchant scroll because I have needed to find a twiddle or way to untap lotus field. So having a little tool box in the deck is good. I hadn't thought of shimmer or possibilities and anticipate but I have never had a lotus field issue so far for the most part.
There is a deck tech video of guy that went 12-3 with the twiddle deck, pretty much a mono blue deck but probably similiar to the build. I also think they missed the grapeshot. Also I know some people are playing defense grid in the sideboard but I think Teferi, time raveler would be nice.
You haven't missed the Twiddle Storm thread--thanks for creating it!
I've actually had more consistency troubles than you, even with solely goldfishing--I sometimes hit around 7-10 Storm and then fizzle. 4 Peer Through Depths (instead of your 3) often prevent me from fizzling just yet, but this is why I went back up to 3 Past in Flames and ditched Ral, Storm Conduit (what is he? An extra Grapeshot that can virtually cost 1 mana and draw at least one card? At any rate, by the time I reach him, too often, I'm out of 1-mana untap spells in hand).
Maybe I need to aggressively mulligan even more often, but I've also had enough problems getting Lotus Field fast enough that I'm currently on 3 Tolaria West and 1 Expedition Map. Way too often, I just don't have the 3 mana necessary to Transmute Tolaria West, and I have lived the dream of Turn 1 Map, Turn 2 crack, Turn 3 combo.
I'm intrigued by the possibility of splashing white in this deck, but maybe Monastery Mentor, Teferi, Time Raveler, Splicer's Skill, and actual enchantment removal aren't as good in this deck as I hope they will be.
I will be running 4 peer through depths in the future, I had to order the 4th card the other day. I think 3 past in flames is correct too, but with Ral, Storm Conduit was solid for me. His -2 ability allowed me draw more cards and if you fizzle with a grape shot 8-10 with a Ral which basically doubles.
I can see expedition map being good but late game it is kinda rough. I have been tinkering with Growth spiral and amulet of vigor, yes it speeds things up but I miss having a few other cards.
I think you could make this a u/w deck if you wanted for monastery mentor as a great sideboard card or a 1 of in the deck. Teferi, Time reveler could be a good sideboard option. I still think green gives you the best options for hate cards like:
I haven't seen a primer on this deck yet or maybe I have missed it but if not here we go.
I know this Twiddle Storm deck has been popping up and I saw a Youtube streamer Meryn play a variant plus a few other people afterwards like Demieyes and SaffronOlive. SO last night, I decided to put the deck together and give it a shot.
First time Storm player but holy cow the deck was consistent with a few top decks but it felt good. I ended up going 3-0 with the deck and once the engine got going it was unstoppable.
Match 1: U/R burn draw deck
2-0, very easy, the player across the table was new to modern
Match 2: Elemental deck
2-1, Won the first game easily, second game I was land screwed and game 3 I got a early abrade to destroy his tormod's crypt then go off.
Match 3: U/R Phoenix,
2-1, games ran really similar to match 2 but game 2 he got a early force of negation that stopped me going off. Game 3 I went off no problem on turn 3.
Overall this deck was a lot of fun and I recommend it. I would say alot of decks can't handle this combo and graveyard hate isn't a big deal with the deck. I would like to try a few things and see how it plays out.
I know there is a u/G shell to possibly play growth spiral or possibly sylvan scrying to the deck to make more land drops, draw more cards and find lotus field more consistent but I will say I never really had any issues finding lotus field. I also think Amulent of vigor would be a interesting card for the deck if the deck is running tap lands.
If I missed a thread this belongs to please let me know.
So last night I did some play testing with the Kiki-Jiki combo out of the sideboard but I wasn't really all that impressed. It went off a few times but to get enough untap abilities and mana to cast the combo was alot actually plus it fizzled alot.
I am going to play the twiddle deck tonight in a competitive format at my local store. Thursday nights all the best players comes out for a mini tournament. I thought crackling drake could be a interesting card since it should be pretty big and also draws me a card.
2 Vizier of Tumbling Sands
Instant (18)
4 Dream's Grip
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
2 Twiddle
Sorcery (20)
1 Eye of Nowhere
2 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
1 Shimmer of Possibility
4 Sleight of Hand
5 Island
2 Lonely Sandbar
4 Lotus Field
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
3 Tolaria West
2 Abrade
1 Aria of Flame
2 Crackling Drake
2 Defense Grid
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Rebuild
I know this has been mentioned before but I haven't had a chance to play test but how about the Kiki-Jiki combo in the sideboard?
The players that I have counter key moments when I play a spell to untap my land. Also the U/W decks are playing Narset, Parter veils which stops the card draw and sideboards are starting to leyline of santicity.
I notice at the SCG Dallas open the deck made a top 100 and I had a bunch of buddies play in the event and they believed the deck would of done great there. A typical storm deck made a top 16 at the event.
Ah I get it, well I like to see some result or testing done. I think there are a lot of moving parts and I think turn 3 with all the bannings will be fine. I rather shoot for consistency and worry about cards that really hurt this deck .
I think U/W control and Jeskai control will be big and narset parter of veils will be bigger which really hurts this deck. Also I think Leyline of Sanctity will be more prevelent too in sideboards.
So I either missing something but you have nothing in the deck list that allows you to drop a extra land on turn 1 or turn 2 so you can get a lotus field on turn 2 to go off. Also most of the cards you need 3 mana to keep the arcane/splice loop going. Even if you twiddle a signle card that's not lotus field, you are not netting any extra mana.
I don't see how your deck turn 2 a lotus field but I think this could be a shell for a turn 2 lotus field.
I will say we are just adding more pieces to the combo to go off but maybe a good start.
4 Arboreal Grazer
Instant (19)
4 Dream's Grip
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
3 Twiddle
Sorcery (18)
1 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Island
4 Lotus Field
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tolaria West
2 Aria of Flame
2 Defense Grid
2 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
2 Nature's Claim
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ral, Storm Conduit
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thing in the Ice
The deck looks interesting and good, I don't agree with the 3 drop creature that cycles. I have never really needed that ability to untap a permanent.
I played this last saturday annd went 3-1 with the deck and just destroyed for th emost part. I beat mono red phoenix, counters company, u/r phoenix and lost to Tron.
The tron game was decided on a dice roll, I beat him game 1 and game 2 I got land screwed and game 3 he turned 3 a karn knocking off my second land so I can't lotus field.
I am going to try a variant tonight running 4 street wraiths and tune sideboard a little bit. I don't play online but I am 7-1 at my local card stores and they are very competitive decks. I would say people have noticed the deck where I am and do not want to play it.
I'd like to try out streets wraiths tonight then expedition maps on another variant when I get time.
Deck list for tonight:
4 Street Wraith
Instant (19)
4 Dream's Grip
1 Echoing Truth
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
2 Twiddle
Sorcery (17)
2 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Island
3 Lonely Sandbar
4 Lotus Field
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
3 Tolaria West
2 Abrade
2 Aria of Flame
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Ral, Storm Conduit
1 Rebuild
1 Spell Pierce
3 Thing in the Ice
I can work on making this a primer to as the deck seems to doing pretty good
Red you get burn to deal with Narset, abrade for artifacts and echoing truth can bounce anything so I donn't know if it is even needed. Your additional win cons are all red spells as of now.
This person 5-0 with U/R with Ral.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2185163#paper
I like merchant scroll because I have needed to find a twiddle or way to untap lotus field. So having a little tool box in the deck is good. I hadn't thought of shimmer or possibilities and anticipate but I have never had a lotus field issue so far for the most part.
There is a deck tech video of guy that went 12-3 with the twiddle deck, pretty much a mono blue deck but probably similiar to the build. I also think they missed the grapeshot. Also I know some people are playing defense grid in the sideboard but I think Teferi, time raveler would be nice.
https://www.channelfireball.com/gp-minneapolis-day-1-deck-techs/
I will be running 4 peer through depths in the future, I had to order the 4th card the other day. I think 3 past in flames is correct too, but with Ral, Storm Conduit was solid for me. His -2 ability allowed me draw more cards and if you fizzle with a grape shot 8-10 with a Ral which basically doubles.
I can see expedition map being good but late game it is kinda rough. I have been tinkering with Growth spiral and amulet of vigor, yes it speeds things up but I miss having a few other cards.
I think you could make this a u/w deck if you wanted for monastery mentor as a great sideboard card or a 1 of in the deck. Teferi, Time reveler could be a good sideboard option. I still think green gives you the best options for hate cards like:
Damping sphere
alpine moon
tormod's crypt
Leyline of the void
rest in peace
Nihil spellbomb
relic of progenitus
Chalice of the void
Also Boseiju, Who Shelters All could be a good card too but may be a little slow.
I know this Twiddle Storm deck has been popping up and I saw a Youtube streamer Meryn play a variant plus a few other people afterwards like Demieyes and SaffronOlive. SO last night, I decided to put the deck together and give it a shot.
First time Storm player but holy cow the deck was consistent with a few top decks but it felt good. I ended up going 3-0 with the deck and once the engine got going it was unstoppable.
4 Dream's Grip
3 Peer Through Depths
4 Psychic Puppetry
4 Reach Through Mists
4 Twiddle
Planeswalker (2)
2 Ral, Storm Conduit
Sorcery (18)
2 Grapeshot
4 Ideas Unbound
1 Merchant Scroll
3 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Fiery Islet
5 Island
3 Lonely Sandbar
4 Lotus Field
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Tolaria West
2 Abrade
2 Aria of Flame
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fry
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rebuild
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
2 Spell Pierce
Match 1: U/R burn draw deck
2-0, very easy, the player across the table was new to modern
Match 2: Elemental deck
2-1, Won the first game easily, second game I was land screwed and game 3 I got a early abrade to destroy his tormod's crypt then go off.
Match 3: U/R Phoenix,
2-1, games ran really similar to match 2 but game 2 he got a early force of negation that stopped me going off. Game 3 I went off no problem on turn 3.
Overall this deck was a lot of fun and I recommend it. I would say alot of decks can't handle this combo and graveyard hate isn't a big deal with the deck. I would like to try a few things and see how it plays out.
I know there is a u/G shell to possibly play growth spiral or possibly sylvan scrying to the deck to make more land drops, draw more cards and find lotus field more consistent but I will say I never really had any issues finding lotus field. I also think Amulent of vigor would be a interesting card for the deck if the deck is running tap lands.
If I missed a thread this belongs to please let me know.