MTG Salvation

Final Vote Count

Rodemy - Vaimes, Ecophagy, ZenxaoDLP
Vaimes - Rodemy

Rodemy has been Lynched. He was Mafia Goon.

Congratulations to the Town and Huntzilla for their win.

Huntzilla gets this as win even though he replaced out because the circumstances for his replacement consisted of a situation where he chose the health of the game over any personal/team goals.
Town MVP - Silvercrys3467 - In the end it was him who cracked the code and won the game for the town. Before that this was almost certainly a scum win.
Mafia MVP - shadowlancerx - While the entire scum team played a marvelous game I feel that shadow falling on his sword for the team at just the right time had this game locked for them.

Vaimes/Newcomb Mentor chat - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/c3Gs2xWEnr4
Shockwave/Eco Mentor chat - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rNM5HZcyDwb
Shadow/Proph Mentor chat - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/yijvtZuN2nu
Scum chat - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/Ag5c95C4ncf
Dead Chat - https://quicktopic.com/52/H/nS2qzfuLu4Jd

@Vaimes and Eco - That is my bad. I personally use private browsing and never thought about any one using an OOG reference like last time on so my apologies for the shortness of the last night.

@tom - Had those questions been asked in the signup or in game thread I could have answered them. At times you were asking questions that could effect the mafia's choices and I was doing my best to remain neutral as a mod should by not changing the outcomes and decisions of the players in anyway if possible.

@Zenzao - No worries, nothing you did was any worse then stuff I've done in games.

Day 3 Final Vote Count

shadowlancerx - Rodemy, ZenzaoDLP, tomsloger, zomgarcwind, Vaimes
tomsloger - shadowlancerx, Silvercrys3467

shadowlancerx has been lynched.. He was Mafia Goon.

It is now Night 3.

Deadline is set for 2369 GMT-6 December 20th.

I may be in the minority here but I ******* hate this change.

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Quote from dLANCER »

Me neither, I have asked, countless times of my local stores to let me get one of those sample decks. But they claim that as an established player, I am not worthy of a freely given promotional demo deck. ....

Probably because stores get a limited number of them and they are designed for getting new players into the game.

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Good luck with everything bro.

Megiddo has requested to be put on the reviewers list. In light of the things that went on a few months ago I just wanted to make sure this was OK with the council before Bur or I add him.

Do whatever you want then. I still strongly suggest you start with probation. His behavior might have problems, but he is hardly alone in that regard. As a former moderator, I strongly advise skipping a probation period to go straight to blacklisting.

So we are looking at Kamigawa moved to Zendikar then?

I think the reason we do that is because one punishment is enough for the single offense, and there are already site rules in place that make it unnecessary to have redundant ones in the Mafia area.

I do not like you for this not being in ABC order.

I am an upper level administrator for one of New Hampshire's ten area agency organizations that provide support and services for individuals with developmental disabilities, such as autism; and acquired brain disorders, such as traumatic brain injury. I have a team of 6 managers I oversee, a staffing pool of over 150, and about 105 individuals with disabilities that I am directly responsible for. If a single employee ever said those words, they would be reported to the state Bureau of Elderly and Adult Services, Bureau of Developmental Services, and our own human resources, and would be terminated on the spot. Also, they'd likely be getting a call from a state investigator, and if founded, they'd be put on the state registry, never to work in the human services field again.
Granted, this is not Megiddo's or Chemtrails' profession. This is "only the internet." I have said some pretty stupid things in my life, similar to these immature comments. But I have seen lesser comments come back founded for abuse. To me, this comment was exactly that: Abuse. This was disrespectful, discourteous, and bluntly abusive to one of our own here on MTGS. You can be upset with his style, you can not like his attitude, hell, you can even be downright repulsed by how aggressive he can be. But you do not need to say something so cold and shallow, Internet or not. I do not take it lightly, and I'm an insensitive jerk most of the time.
With all of that said, I am not one to be big on Kangaroo courts. Megiddo served some "time" for his offense. I would have been fine with that being sufficient. However, he is showing absolutely no remorse for his actions, continuing to be disrespectful to the Council members, and seems to lack the insight necessary to admit his fault in the particular situation. Couple that with the way he treated Bur as the host/mod of that game, I agree with Tordeck's proposal of a probationary period. I don't think Megiddo is an awful person or deserves any more punishment than a simple watchful eye. I would also propose that Megiddo take it upon himself to avoid playing games with the other player the comment was aimed at. If another comment was to be posted though, I would be for a complete ban.
The one thing that attracted me to this community was the tight-knit bonds that everyone seemed to share. While this is mafia, and we all get heated, myself especially, we need to still remain respectful. While many of us can get borderline offensive and blur the lines a bit, for the most part it is to do with the game. Comments of this nature are not for the game at all. I do feel that if the Moderators for the overall site are fine with the punishment that was given, than we should accept that for now. But the egregious nature does warrant something to be done, for the good of the MTGS Mafia community as a whole. If we let this comment slide, than we are moving away from the tight-knit feel, and to something else entirely. How are we to invite new members to this community if this is allowed?

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Simple answer: We don't. [/topic]

Rule Forum

Woapalanne has resigned from the Rules Forum after years of service. Thank you for all your hard work!

Global Moderators

Arcadic will be stepping down to local mod to focus his efforts on the Rumour Mill.

I remember when I made a thread almost a year ago about how the staff appeared to be in massive disarray back in February. There were a significant number of staff changes over the course of just 1.5-2 months time. As someone who has been on this site for over seven years, I have seen more than my fair share of staff turnover. At the time, I had never seen such a significant change in staff members being demodded, so I made a thread voicing my concerns that something was wrong. The staff, at the time, told me not to worry about the massive turnover.

viperesque's response:

Quote from viperesque

I assure you, the attitude is quite the opposite of turmoil. I can't recall it being more positive any time in my 16 months on staff.

Azrael:

Quote from Azrael

So I can assure you, there's not any hidden turmoil or any animus going on behind the scenes that's causing mods to drop like flies. I think satisfaction amidst the ranks is the highest it's ever been, and with the new additions from last month, the staff has more than enough coverage and new talent to keep things running smoothly.

Yukora:

Quote from Yukora

There's nothing to worry about. The changes you are noticing are a sign of something good.

Sene:

Quote from Sene

Only a couple of months ago, we had staff that had not visited the site since April last year; but we have since then made a greater effort to make sure we have moderators that visit the site on a frequent basis, and don't let forums in shambles. So the number of staff changes recently is partly thanks to the transition we're experiencing, and partly coincidental.

LuckNorris:

Quote from LuckNorris

In fact, I wouldn't say the staff is in turmoil but I think they are healthier than ever. A lot of great new people and moderators have been put onto the staff that not only have what it takes to be great mods, but they have my total respect. Guys like Megiddo, ExpiredRascals, Viricide and pretty much every new moderator has done their jobs since being added to the staff and has done it well.

I have a lot of confidence in the staff these days, and I am being honest when I say there is nothing to worry about.

Like the sucker I was back then, I took the statements at face value and thought nothing else about them. Several months and a few epic drama bombs later, it's blatantly obvious that all of you were wrong. Everything was not fine. The staff has experienced a type of tumultuous chaos that I have never seen in the site's history. The turnover on the staff accelerated at an extremely rapid pace, with admins changing as frequently as I change clothes and moderators going in and out a seemingly never-ending revolving door. It sure made the staff changes back in February that I mentioned look like a sideshow at the carnival in comparison. Reading those comments made by now ex-staffers only makes me shake my head in disgust. How could this have happened? How could the staff try to save face like this when it was only a matter of time before everyone knew the truth? As an aside, I think it's funny that all these comments came from people that no longer are on the staff. It might be just a coincidence, but I thought I'd put that out there.

Throughout the site's history, I have been quietly supportive of the mods. I was almost always on good terms with them and I enjoyed what they have done for the site. Ever since the "culture change" said by the staff that has been happening the last year or so though, my approval of the staff has eroded. As more and more drama unfolded, things started to grow ever more weary on me that the staff really knew what they were doing. Ever since I took a recent look-back at the thread I made and seeing the staff blatantly lie to me like this, I'm now at the point where my patience and trust with the staff have reached wit's end. I cannot trust the staff anymore. Not after they insisted on telling me everything was fine when it ultimately blew up right in their face.

Consider this a message from one of the site's veterans:

You have failed to adequately perform your assigned duties.

You have placed this site in the most unstable condition that it has ever experienced in its entire history.

You have alienated members that were once perfectly fine people for a long time. (Solaran_X immediately comes to mind)

You have lost my trust.

And I don't think you are getting it back any time soon.

Pardon the title, but I'm earnestly interested in putting an end to all of this needless CI turmoil, and I think the site needs a conversation and a plan of action more decisive than the status quo presents.

At the end of the day, the healing is going to have to come from the staff. Neither the users or the gutter have the power to fix it - they don't have any policy-making power. That's going to have to come from the staff - particularly the portions of the staff that the users and gutterites are skeptical of - taking actions to change their minds and restore faith.

It means something unexpected. A change of approach. If you want forgiveness from the userbase - forgive them, first, and act accordingly. You kill drama with kindness.

Right now, it looks more like a Cold War out there. Espionage, spy-hunting, talking about clandestine activities, gossiping behind one another's backs - that's what I mean when I say there wasn't any scuttlebutt to leak, back then. This is not how you move forward from this and stop the CI drama.

What could the staff do to patch things up?

1. Unban the gutterities. Every last one of them. The entire affair was a travesty of errors with much blame upon both sides, and the gutter itself is history once Curse takes over anyways. Even if you think justice is being served, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, you're much better converting them back into friends and productive members than continuing this clandestine warfare. Use your time and resources wisely. Quit spending so much time fighting such a small number of members and bring them back onto your side, as they were last winter. It's no coincidence that the site was largely quiet when the gutterites were left in peace. A simple thing, but people miss it.

Treat them better than they deserve or expect. That's how a stranger turns back into a friend.

2. Quit being distracted chasing the leaks, and quit giving them so many questionable things TO leak. There are a lot of people writing things in the lounge as if the userbase is the enemy, and as if the leak doesn't actually exist. It does, and they aren't.

The staff needs to crack down on all that crap, because first of all, it's inappropriate for moderators to descend to complaining about the userbase. It's no different from the reason that the user X thread was destroyed. And two, purely pragmatically, why are you letting people write things that only throw fuel on the fire? Get rid of it! Crack down and wield some righteous admin authority.

3. Bring back good people onto the staff, that people in the userbase have confidence in. Not me. Belgareth would be amazing, as either a lounge consultant or a mod. He has experience, he's helped keep things calm, he has wonderful priorities. There's others like him out there (there's a long list), and they're under-represented on the staff right now. They don't feel welcome. That has to change.

I know that there's a number of people on the staff who are doing a double-take. And I know that admin is uncomfortable with making decisions that a large bloc of the lower staff disagree with. I could name names, but that serves no purpose. But I think we're all aware of the truth that the lounge itself is deeply divided. There's the old school, and the new school, and while the new school hold most of the keys to power, they're deferring to the vocal old school faction amongst the staff. Many good staff members have left - some have contemplated leaving. Some continue to relay through private channels how frustrated they are with the situation. They feel as though there isn't someone to represent or speak for them forcefully inside the lounge - and often there isn't.

The last time the staff was plagued with a crisis of leadership, change began when a handful of people like Nai and Harkius started pushing for changes from inside the lounge - and never gave up. These days - how many people are pushing hard for change? How many of them are left? Who's there to help the staff find its way? Too many of them are burnt out, or sidelined.

And so many of the staff continue to push for old ways of doing things and looking at things, the ways that MikeyG now believes were a mistake. I know that admin doesn't believe in that way of doing things - but they also haven't challenged the people on staff who DO still believe in it. And as a result, because they want to lead in a style that takes those opinions into account, that group has taken on an extraordinary and unprecedented power to shape the site's policy, because they are willing to be vocal and go to the mats for their ideas.

But we've seen the results of those ideas. And we've also seen the results of a different way of doing things back in January when we had people like Yukes, and the gutterites, and Kraj, and so many other strong voices speaking up to fight for the userbase. Keep on writing it off to ego talking if you want - say it was a fluke that things ran so smoothly. But it has nothing to do with any special or amazing talents of any of us who were involved - and it should hardly be considered an impossible task to run a frickkin' card game site without it exploding-but it was a hell of a lot better way to do things.

And it worked. Those of you who were there remember. We had years and years of CI drama before this year, then three months where everything changed completely around and people were actually happy. But we've lost too many of the people who were part of making that era happen. And now we're where we are today - much like CI was when I first laid eyes on it, except more intense: because now people's expectations are higher than they used to be. They know it can be better, because it has been better.

Things ran better in December and January and February, and they ran better because the staff had a different philosophy and style of management. It was nothing amazing or special, but it worked. We need to bring it back, and that starts with having people on board who will support a better way of doing things, and have a civil conversation with those who disagree with them. They want to come on board and help. Let them. Count me out until I've earned trust, but let others step in and take on that role.

4. Idealism. Yes, this is a card game forum. But we want it to be a pleasant card game forum, right? One in which people aren't harassed by staff, or harassed off the staff, or harassed for being staff. And that starts with good leadership, and good leadership means espousing ideals that people believe in and have confidence in. Ideals like serving the userbase being the one and only objective that you care about. Not leaks, not security, not even catering to Curse.

Nai already gets this - his candor and dedication to the userbase throughout all of this has been heroic, and not to denigrate anyone else's contributions, but Nai has been an unceasing and tremendous advocate for the userbase. It was a huge risk to come out with the truth regarding Curse - but he did it anyways, because it was the right thing to do for the sake of the userbase and that was the #1 objective.

You need more people like that. Belgareth is one of many. There are few better moves you could possibly make than to bring him on board as a lounge consultant, and I defy anyone who thinks otherwise to come out into the open, instead of whispering in the lounge where no one can counter the argument, and tell me why they disagree.

It's not impossible to end the CI warfare. It's been done before, and it can be done again, and you have the power to do it, if only you'll use it.