Yeah its in the same pool as this version, using Risk Factor and Temper as additional threats and value off of the discard, while having less controlled dig. I dont think its a wrong approach by any means.
I put it aside after I got punked out hard by Iona, Shield of Emeria those kind of 'oh you play just X' feel bads are enough for me to never play a deck again.
Ouch ! That does really shut things down. Each deck has its weakness though. Ie: Burn vs Martyr proc.
I do run Blood Moon so... Red has some dirty tricks too !
If im not having fun I just conceed and move on. I imagine its what dredge players do when they see 4 leyline of the void in someones side deck.
I wasnt sure if the Runaway thread was covering the R version as well, but hey!
The R version certainly is viable, very explosive and does play an interesting game between burn and creature aggro and combo.
The Run Away thread does not contain quite that list.
Ive found it to be very balanced, and the fastest of the variations. Just not quite sure where its home is. The U/R version seems to be the most popular.
I have noticed that all variations contain the following cards.
there are enough sources to discard more then just the Phoenix.
4x fiery temper (want to discard)
2x risk factor (can cast from graveyard)
1x flame jab (can cast from graveyard)
1x Maximize Velocity (can cast from graveyard)
I know we sometimes play ensnaring bridge so three CMC isn’t off the table as far as what we can cast and a 3/3 trample haste that gives me hexproof on my turn and for the creature for 3 seems good in my books. Thoughts?
I dont think this card is very good. Not fast enough.. might see standard play.
It plays quite a bit different compared to the blue/red as you can imagine. Having 17-20 "Burn" spells, and sharing a similar sideboard I thought it might have someplace in burn as well or.. some place in the middle ?
Not quite sure where this deck fits but it is really fun to play.
Burn is a subset of Red Deck Wins, just like all squares are rectangles. Red Deck Wins is built on "low cost, efficient red stuff".
Is the primary game plan to incrementally use direct player damage spells and back it up by efficient creature spells? If yes, it's Burn. While some might call Burn a "spell combo deck", I think they're just trying to be cheeky and clever. Burn is a red aggro deck that attacks via the stack rather than combat, but is still consistent with the idea of "RDW".
The mono-R Phoenix deck plays burn spells but the primary game plan isn't a Burn game plan. 12 cards that draw/filter/discard for value aren't consistent with the Burn game plan, even if the result is sometimes "oh look at that, Fiery Temper for R". The game plan is more to reward you solely for playing spells/filling the yard and some of those spells incidentally deal damage to the face. The Phoenix deck is a lot closer to being a spell combo deck, but is at least built on card synergies. It's a red deck, but I'm kind of hesitant to really call it "Red Deck Wins" because it's straying very far from being a pile of efficient red stuff.
The Red Phoenix deck makes use of quite a few cards that Burn or Red Reck Wins also uses. I found that the Mono Red version of Phoenix plays, different then the Blue/Red.
Having 4 swift spear, 4 lightning bolt, and 4 lava pike , starts to sound like the beginning of a Red Deck Wins list..
You are correct it does feel a bit combo like, but prowess and burn spells are there too. So where does this deck fit ?
Jund and Jeskai use Lightning Bolt and sometimes win with "bolt you". They aren't Burn decks.
The Phoenix deck shares some cards with Burn, but the game plan is decidedly different. You'd never play Faithless Looting or Tormenting Voice in Burn, and Manamorphose doesn't have a place in Burn either despite the fact that a bunch of content writers and pros tried to push it as something almost every deck should play. I think it's a lot closer to being a red combo deck than a red aggro deck (which is what rdw is).
What I do know is that the Phoenix deck isn't Burn and thus isn't the topic of this thread.
Having 4 lightning bolt or lightning helix, and occasionally bolting someone for a win is different then having 17-20 sources of "burn damage"
4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lava Spike, 4x Fiery Temper, 2x gut shot, potential 2 from a single flame jab or up to 16 damage from 2 risk factors if they take it.
That is a burn package win condition.
Burn is a subset of Red Deck Wins, just like all squares are rectangles. Red Deck Wins is built on "low cost, efficient red stuff".
Is the primary game plan to incrementally use direct player damage spells and back it up by efficient creature spells? If yes, it's Burn. While some might call Burn a "spell combo deck", I think they're just trying to be cheeky and clever. Burn is a red aggro deck that attacks via the stack rather than combat, but is still consistent with the idea of "RDW".
The mono-R Phoenix deck plays burn spells but the primary game plan isn't a Burn game plan. 12 cards that draw/filter/discard for value aren't consistent with the Burn game plan, even if the result is sometimes "oh look at that, Fiery Temper for R". The game plan is more to reward you solely for playing spells/filling the yard and some of those spells incidentally deal damage to the face. The Phoenix deck is a lot closer to being a spell combo deck, but is at least built on card synergies. It's a red deck, but I'm kind of hesitant to really call it "Red Deck Wins" because it's straying very far from being a pile of efficient red stuff.
The Red Phoenix deck makes use of quite a few cards that Burn or Red Reck Wins also uses. I found that the Mono Red version of Phoenix plays, different then the Blue/Red.
Having 4 swift spear, 4 lightning bolt, and 4 lava pike , starts to sound like the beginning of a Red Deck Wins list..
You are correct it does feel a bit combo like, but prowess and burn spells are there too. So where does this deck fit ?
3x Ravenous Trap
2x Blood Moon
1x Alpine Moon
2x Eidolon of the Great Revel
2x Rampaging Ferocidon
1x Unstable footing
2x Pyroclasm
2x Shattering Spree
Ouch ! That does really shut things down. Each deck has its weakness though. Ie: Burn vs Martyr proc.
I do run Blood Moon so... Red has some dirty tricks too !
If im not having fun I just conceed and move on. I imagine its what dredge players do when they see 4 leyline of the void in someones side deck.
The Run Away thread does not contain quite that list.
Ive found it to be very balanced, and the fastest of the variations. Just not quite sure where its home is. The U/R version seems to be the most popular.
I have noticed that all variations contain the following cards.
4x Arclight Phoenix
4x Manamorphose
4x Faithless looting
4x Lightning bolt
In the mono red version I use the following to help discard the Phoenix
4x faithless looting
4x tormenting voice
4x Bedlam Reveler
2x risk factor (jump-start)
1x Maximize Velocity (jump-start)
there are enough sources to discard more then just the Phoenix.
4x fiery temper (want to discard)
2x risk factor (can cast from graveyard)
1x flame jab (can cast from graveyard)
1x Maximize Velocity (can cast from graveyard)
The sources the deck has for draw are
4x faithless looting(flash back)
4x tormenting voice
4x manamorphose
4x bedlam reveler
2x Risk Factor
Any thoughts, on where this deck might fit in ?
I dont think this card is very good. Not fast enough.. might see standard play.
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Arclight Phoenix
4x lightning bolt
4x lava spike
4x fiery temper
2x gut shot
1x flame jab
2x risk factor
1x Maximize velocity
4x faithless looting
4x manamorphose
4x Tormenting voice
17x mountain
1x Ramunap Ruins
Side
3x Ravenous Trap
3x Blood Moon
2x shattering spree
2x skullcrack
3x Eidolon of the great Revel
2x Dismember
It plays quite a bit different compared to the blue/red as you can imagine. Having 17-20 "Burn" spells, and sharing a similar sideboard I thought it might have someplace in burn as well or.. some place in the middle ?
Not quite sure where this deck fits but it is really fun to play.
Having 4 lightning bolt or lightning helix, and occasionally bolting someone for a win is different then having 17-20 sources of "burn damage"
4x Lightning Bolt, 4x Lava Spike, 4x Fiery Temper, 2x gut shot, potential 2 from a single flame jab or up to 16 damage from 2 risk factors if they take it.
That is a burn package win condition.
The Red Phoenix deck makes use of quite a few cards that Burn or Red Reck Wins also uses. I found that the Mono Red version of Phoenix plays, different then the Blue/Red.
Having 4 swift spear, 4 lightning bolt, and 4 lava pike , starts to sound like the beginning of a Red Deck Wins list..
You are correct it does feel a bit combo like, but prowess and burn spells are there too. So where does this deck fit ?
Well at which point does burn become Red Deck Wins ?
The Mono Red Arclight Phoenix list seems to be as much of a Burn deck as it is a Red Deck Wins.