I know we haven't been very active here lately, but I'm going to put up an M20 (and eventually an Eldraine) set review. I'll try to avoid reviewing cards that have no real chance of being included.
The Cavalier Cycle: Cavalier of GalesCavalier of DawnCavalier of Thorns These are pretty color intensive and the green one is a throw away, but the white and blue cavaliers could potentially be decent, specifically in a Birthing Pod chain as they all have EtB and dies triggers. They are competing for slots with cards like Mulldrifter and Duplicant that are just easier to cast and more flexible.
Agent of Treachery: I actually really like this card. I tend to think of him in similar terms as Duplicant: removal stapled to a creature. Agent has the advantage of not only removing ANY permanent, but actually stealing it for yourself. It also has the added benefit of occasionally drawing you a bunch of cards which is a real possibility in a deck with blink effects and cards like Gilded Drake and Bribery. I will be trying this over Duplicant.
Risen Reef: I really considered not discussing this card, but here I go. This seems like a worse (better?) Coiling Oracle which, I believe, is a card some here play. It has the advantage of not revealing the top card and it also plays nicely with clones and other elementals. Currently I'm playing 2 clones and 3 elementals (Mulldrifter, Reveillark, Bane of Progress) Technically the only disadvantage it has compared with the Oracle is that it costs 1 more mana. It has a lot of POTENTIAL upside but is that enough to make the deck?
Shared Summons: This card is great for setting up 2 card creature combos and has the added benefit of being an instant. There is a lot of competition in the creature tutor department but, if you have a combo that just wins the game, this might edge out some of those.
Tale's End: A cheaper Disallow that trades a little flexibility for mana efficiency while still being able to counter commanders. I think I will actually give this card a try over Disallow as the difference between holding up 2 mana and 3 mana can be huge.
Veil of Summer: Efficient meta-dependent sort-of hate effect. Probably playable depending on what decks you regularly face.
Flood of Tears: Less mean Cyclonic Rift. There are still probably better alternatives if, for whatever reason, you are averse to playing Cyclonic Rift.
Lotus Field: unless you are running a lot of ways to recur lands from the graveyard, you are probably better off running the bounce lands.
M20 gave us a few things to think about. What are your thoughts? Did I completely miss some sweet tech? Any of these cards spark your interest?
Welcome! I love hearing new perspectives on the deck and EDH in general!
In regard to your question, yes it can be bad for us to hate out all graveyards with cards like Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. As you've mentioned, some people opt to run Scrabbling Claws. I personally really like Tormod's Crypt. It won't draw you a card like Claws or Relic, but it wipes out an entire graveyard and is just as easy to tutor up.
Other great options for graveyard hate are effects attached to creatures since it is much easier for Bant to tutor, recur, and otherwise abuse effects on creatures. You'll see a lot of people run things like Scavenging Ooze and Stonecloaker, or even Angel of Finality. I'm getting on a rant here, but I want to mention one last card: Scavenger Grounds. It hits our own graveyard, but it won't take up a spell slot in the deck and is a good option if you play against a lot of decks that rely on the graveyard.
What are your thoughts on Thought Sponge? It seems like a decent card draw engine, but competes for a slot with Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain and/or Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I do like that the sponge supplies itself with its own +1/+1 counter, and that as long as you're sacing it on your opponent's turn, it will come back with a counter.
A couple other cards that stand out: Goblin Engineer acts as a pseudo tutor and Goblin Welder lite. I'm trying Metalwork Colossus to fill a similar role as Greater Gargadon, and combined with the Engineer it can provide us with an early sac outlet that is resistant to removal.
Mystic Forge is another Future Sight type effect that pairs well with our deck. Not as potentially game-breaking as Bolas's Citadel, but it comes down earlier and provides good card advantage.
Dockside Extortionist I'm not sure how to evaluate this card. It could be incredible in the right meta. Treasure tokens also provide self-sacing artifacts to trigger Marionette Master and the like.
Hey all, it's been awhile and we've had a lot of new sets hit since WAR. I'd love to discuss some of the cards in Modern Horizons and M20! One thing I'll try to avoid is passing judgment on cards; I'd much rather have a discussion as a group than to approve or dismiss cards.
But first I want to bring up a card from WAR that I might not have given enough credit on my first look through the set.
Narset's Reversal: This card was definitely not on my radar and, personally, I have no experience playing with or against it. However, I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest it can be quite powerful.
Okay. On to the new stuff!
Springbloom Druid: for anyone playing Farhaven Elf over Yavimaya Dryad (me), this is probably an upgrade (can fix 2 colors). For those that don't mind the slightly more restrictive cost of the Dryad, the Druid is probably nothing exciting. Two considerations in the Druids favor: in rare cases, such as having only green and colorless mana sources in the first 3 turns, the Druid is better fixing than the Dryad. Second, if you don't run the maximum number of fetches, the sacrificed land gives another target for Sun Titan.
Speaking of Fetches! Prismatic Vista: I'd like to say this is a budget fetch land, but as of this post it's pretty much on par with the on-color fetches we play. If you need more fetch lands and you're running basic land type dual lands in any quantity, the off-color fetches will probably be better.
Force of Negation and Force of Vigor: I personally feel these are the best of the cycle. Negation interests me slightly more in this deck as a way to protect key targets. Vigor is great removal, but we already have that in abundance.
Speaking of removal! Generous Gift: Beast Within for white. I still play Bant Charm in addition to Beast Within as a versatile answer, but we already know this effect is good!
Sword of Sinew and Steel: Protection from relevant colors and an additional source of removal. Notably you do not have to destroy a target controlled by the player you hit.
Archmage's Charm: If the mana cost doesn't scare you away, you probably still won't be playing this over Cryptic Command. But it is fairly versatile.
Echo of Eons: Seems like a very powerful effect, but does it fit the deck?
Alright this post is getting much longer than I anticipated so I'll hold off bringing up any M20, Commander 2019, or Throne of Eldrane cards.
Edit: Almost forgot a couple! Soulherder: A tutorable, recurable, Conjurer's Closet on legs! Collector Ouphe: Artifact hate! This also shuts down our own artifacts, so this is totally a meta call.
Palace Jailer has been in my list for a few months now and I'm not sure what to make of it. I typically find myself tutoring for other things like Gilded Drake or Venser, Shaper Savant when I need removal. I've yet to live the dream of blinking him and exiling multiple things .
Ah yeah, of course - so whatever is on the board beforehand would get the bonus but not the Avenger or tokens. That rules that one out.
Whatever you search for will still get the +/+ and haste, I believe, but EtB triggers will not happen until the entire spell resolves.
I also feel like my 5 drops are a bit boring. 3 graveyard recursion cards live at 5 cmc and then a few "silver bullet" type cards, but I find there isn't really a "goodstuff" card to grab if I don't need either of those. I've tried Thalia's Lancers in the past and, although the tutoring is quite nice, the body just isn't as impressive as I'd like. I'd usually rather just have Reveillark.
Is there any creature that would interact with Finale of Devastation in such a way that it's pretty much game when X=10+? Obviously Craterhoof Behemoth works best with an established board (End-Raze Forerunners might actually be preferable in that scenario), but are there any others that fit the criteria and don't feel out of place in a Jenara/Derevi list?
I was really hoping for one of the Finales to be playable for us! Finale of Devastation is indeed really cool (also tutorable with Spellseeker)! What comes out for it? I'm assuming one of our "X" tutors. Between Wargate, Chord of Calling, and Green Sun's Zenith, I'm honestly at a loss as to which to cut. I could see cutting any one of them; they're all unique, but about on par with each other in power/versatility.
I didn't cast her once. I never tutored for her. I had several opportunities, I just never wanted to. Every time I could, it felt like a bad play. In many cases, she was just going to die before I'd get a chance to untap with her, and in others I just had to spend my mana doing other things.
That was my fear regarding Prime Speaker Vannifar. Looks like I won't need to pick up a copy afterall.
Agreed. Honestly I don’t think there’s been a single card spoiled yet that would make the cut. A little disappointing in that regard. With that said, the set still looks really awesome in general!
Hey all! New to the forum, but not to Commander. I've primarily played Jenara, Asura of War since I got into the format, but when Atraxa, Praetors' Voice was first revealed it really caught my eye. I think I'm ready to make the switch so I thought I'd bring up a few of the awesome cards that have been spoiled in War of The Spark!
There seem to be a bunch more but, not being familiar with the deck, I left out planeswalkers and some of the other proliferate cards. What are your thoughts? What's the current state of the deck as a whole?
Another kinda cool spoiler! Spark Double
Prior to the legend rule change I was running a total of 3 clones, Phantasmal Image, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Clever Impersonator. After the change I cut the Impersonator. This might not have as much utility as Clever Impersonator (it can only copy your own cards), and it probably won't convince me to increase my clone count, but it is an interesting option with some unique upside! In a legend/planeswalker heavier version of the deck this card is probably a homerun. As it stands I'm usually copying other people's stuff with my clones.
The Cavalier Cycle: Cavalier of Gales Cavalier of Dawn Cavalier of Thorns These are pretty color intensive and the green one is a throw away, but the white and blue cavaliers could potentially be decent, specifically in a Birthing Pod chain as they all have EtB and dies triggers. They are competing for slots with cards like Mulldrifter and Duplicant that are just easier to cast and more flexible.
Agent of Treachery: I actually really like this card. I tend to think of him in similar terms as Duplicant: removal stapled to a creature. Agent has the advantage of not only removing ANY permanent, but actually stealing it for yourself. It also has the added benefit of occasionally drawing you a bunch of cards which is a real possibility in a deck with blink effects and cards like Gilded Drake and Bribery. I will be trying this over Duplicant.
Risen Reef: I really considered not discussing this card, but here I go. This seems like a worse (better?) Coiling Oracle which, I believe, is a card some here play. It has the advantage of not revealing the top card and it also plays nicely with clones and other elementals. Currently I'm playing 2 clones and 3 elementals (Mulldrifter, Reveillark, Bane of Progress) Technically the only disadvantage it has compared with the Oracle is that it costs 1 more mana. It has a lot of POTENTIAL upside but is that enough to make the deck?
Shared Summons: This card is great for setting up 2 card creature combos and has the added benefit of being an instant. There is a lot of competition in the creature tutor department but, if you have a combo that just wins the game, this might edge out some of those.
Tale's End: A cheaper Disallow that trades a little flexibility for mana efficiency while still being able to counter commanders. I think I will actually give this card a try over Disallow as the difference between holding up 2 mana and 3 mana can be huge.
Veil of Summer: Efficient meta-dependent sort-of hate effect. Probably playable depending on what decks you regularly face.
Flood of Tears: Less mean Cyclonic Rift. There are still probably better alternatives if, for whatever reason, you are averse to playing Cyclonic Rift.
Lotus Field: unless you are running a lot of ways to recur lands from the graveyard, you are probably better off running the bounce lands.
M20 gave us a few things to think about. What are your thoughts? Did I completely miss some sweet tech? Any of these cards spark your interest?
In regard to your question, yes it can be bad for us to hate out all graveyards with cards like Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. As you've mentioned, some people opt to run Scrabbling Claws. I personally really like Tormod's Crypt. It won't draw you a card like Claws or Relic, but it wipes out an entire graveyard and is just as easy to tutor up.
Other great options for graveyard hate are effects attached to creatures since it is much easier for Bant to tutor, recur, and otherwise abuse effects on creatures. You'll see a lot of people run things like Scavenging Ooze and Stonecloaker, or even Angel of Finality. I'm getting on a rant here, but I want to mention one last card: Scavenger Grounds. It hits our own graveyard, but it won't take up a spell slot in the deck and is a good option if you play against a lot of decks that rely on the graveyard.
A couple other cards that stand out:
Goblin Engineer acts as a pseudo tutor and Goblin Welder lite. I'm trying Metalwork Colossus to fill a similar role as Greater Gargadon, and combined with the Engineer it can provide us with an early sac outlet that is resistant to removal.
Mystic Forge is another Future Sight type effect that pairs well with our deck. Not as potentially game-breaking as Bolas's Citadel, but it comes down earlier and provides good card advantage.
Dockside Extortionist I'm not sure how to evaluate this card. It could be incredible in the right meta. Treasure tokens also provide self-sacing artifacts to trigger Marionette Master and the like.
But first I want to bring up a card from WAR that I might not have given enough credit on my first look through the set.
Narset's Reversal: This card was definitely not on my radar and, personally, I have no experience playing with or against it. However, I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest it can be quite powerful.
Okay. On to the new stuff!
Springbloom Druid: for anyone playing Farhaven Elf over Yavimaya Dryad (me), this is probably an upgrade (can fix 2 colors). For those that don't mind the slightly more restrictive cost of the Dryad, the Druid is probably nothing exciting. Two considerations in the Druids favor: in rare cases, such as having only green and colorless mana sources in the first 3 turns, the Druid is better fixing than the Dryad. Second, if you don't run the maximum number of fetches, the sacrificed land gives another target for Sun Titan.
Speaking of Fetches! Prismatic Vista: I'd like to say this is a budget fetch land, but as of this post it's pretty much on par with the on-color fetches we play. If you need more fetch lands and you're running basic land type dual lands in any quantity, the off-color fetches will probably be better.
Waterlogged Grove: Great land for us! Acts as an additional Horizon Canopy but in arguably more important colors.
Force of Negation and Force of Vigor: I personally feel these are the best of the cycle. Negation interests me slightly more in this deck as a way to protect key targets. Vigor is great removal, but we already have that in abundance.
Speaking of removal! Generous Gift: Beast Within for white. I still play Bant Charm in addition to Beast Within as a versatile answer, but we already know this effect is good!
Sword of Sinew and Steel: Protection from relevant colors and an additional source of removal. Notably you do not have to destroy a target controlled by the player you hit.
Archmage's Charm: If the mana cost doesn't scare you away, you probably still won't be playing this over Cryptic Command. But it is fairly versatile.
Echo of Eons: Seems like a very powerful effect, but does it fit the deck?
Alright this post is getting much longer than I anticipated so I'll hold off bringing up any M20, Commander 2019, or Throne of Eldrane cards.
Edit: Almost forgot a couple!
Soulherder: A tutorable, recurable, Conjurer's Closet on legs!
Collector Ouphe: Artifact hate! This also shuts down our own artifacts, so this is totally a meta call.
Palace Jailer has been in my list for a few months now and I'm not sure what to make of it. I typically find myself tutoring for other things like Gilded Drake or Venser, Shaper Savant when I need removal. I've yet to live the dream of blinking him and exiling multiple things .
Whatever you search for will still get the +/+ and haste, I believe, but EtB triggers will not happen until the entire spell resolves.
I also feel like my 5 drops are a bit boring. 3 graveyard recursion cards live at 5 cmc and then a few "silver bullet" type cards, but I find there isn't really a "goodstuff" card to grab if I don't need either of those. I've tried Thalia's Lancers in the past and, although the tutoring is quite nice, the body just isn't as impressive as I'd like. I'd usually rather just have Reveillark.
That was my fear regarding Prime Speaker Vannifar. Looks like I won't need to pick up a copy afterall.
Edit: so yeah, Kefnet isn't for us either God-Eternal Kefnet
Grateful Apparition Ignite the Beacon Flux Channeler Evolution Sage Karn's Bastion Spark Double
There seem to be a bunch more but, not being familiar with the deck, I left out planeswalkers and some of the other proliferate cards. What are your thoughts? What's the current state of the deck as a whole?
Prior to the legend rule change I was running a total of 3 clones, Phantasmal Image, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Clever Impersonator. After the change I cut the Impersonator. This might not have as much utility as Clever Impersonator (it can only copy your own cards), and it probably won't convince me to increase my clone count, but it is an interesting option with some unique upside! In a legend/planeswalker heavier version of the deck this card is probably a homerun. As it stands I'm usually copying other people's stuff with my clones.