1. Ranar's last ability won't trigger when Ephemerate is exiled as it resolves (the same is true for Time Spiral or Burning Wish), since the spell is neither a card in hand nor a permanent (C.R. 110.1, 112.1). But if you discard a card due to madness, you discard it into exile, so Ranar's last ability will trigger since the card was exiled from your hand (recall that madness means, in part, "that player discards it, but exiles it instead of putting it into their graveyard" [C.R. 702.35a]).
2. It's the player controlling Rest in Peace who exiles the creature, no matter who sacrifices that creature with Blasting Station (see also C.R. 109.5). (Recall that "exile" is a keyword action; see C.R. 701.11a.) Ranar's last ability will trigger in this case, however, only if "a spell or ability you control exiles" that creature; this generally means the creature is exiled while the spell or ability is resolving (even if it's exiled instead of going to another zone), but (in accordance with a statement by the rules manager) not while you're paying the cost of a spell or ability such as Blasting Station's first ability. See comment 13 below.
If you control Rest in Peace (as in scenarios (a) through (c)) and any card or token (controlled or owned by any player) would go to any graveyard by any means (whether by destruction, sacrifice, or otherwise), you exile that card or token instead. (Thus, for example, if multiple creatures, whether controlled by one player or several, are destroyed due to combat damage at the same time, then instead of them going to the graveyard, you exile all those creatures instead.) However Ranar's last ability doesn't care who exiles any permanents or cards.
Note also that it's not damage, by itself, that destroys a creature, but rather a state-based action could do so (C.R. 120.5, 704.5g-h).
EDIT: Edited to add note about damage, after comment 9 was posted.
EDIT (Mar. 15): Edited.
EDIT (Apr. 22): See comment 10.
EDIT (May 1): One rule was renumbered with Strixhaven.
EDIT (Aug. 14): Edited, including to conform to updated text in Modern Horizons 2.
EDIT (Aug. 15): Edited slightly.
EDIT (Aug. 4, 2023): Correctness edit.
EDIT (Aug. 5, 2023): Clarification.
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Feb 7, 2021peteroupc posted a message on Replacement effects as sources?? (Ranar the Ever-Watchful)Posted in: Magic Rulings
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peteroupc posted a message on Toralf, God of Fury + Board Wipes ClarificationPosted in: Magic RulingsQuote from fillasophy »I've been a little unsure over the interaction between Toralf, God of Fury and the big red board wipes, such as Blasphemous Act, (assuming an opponent controls at least one creature to which excess damage would be dealt and Toralf won't survive the board wipe). Specifically, since Toralf is the source of the damage from the triggered ability, but it's going to die from the wipe, would damage still be dealt?
In general, yes. If Toralf is on the battlefield while "a creature or planeswalker an opponent controls is dealt excess noncombat damage", its triggered ability will trigger once for each such creature or planeswalker (C.R. 603.2, 603.2c, 113.6). "Once ... triggered", those abilities will "exis[t] independently of" Toralf, so that those abilities will still get to resolve even if Toralf leaves the battlefield in the meantime (C.R. 113.7a). Note, however, the following:- If a creature has lethal damage marked on it, it will be destroyed as a state-based action before triggered abilities go on the stack (C.R. 117.5, 704.5g).
- If a planeswalker runs out of loyalty, it's sent to the graveyard as a state-based action before triggered abilities go on the stack (C.R. 117.5, 704.5i).
- As you put each Toralf ability on the stack, you must target a planeswalker, creature, or player (other than the permanent the ability refers to) right then and there (C.R. 117.5, 603.3d, 601.2c, 115.4). You can't choose in this way a creature that was just destroyed or a planeswalker that was just sent to the graveyard. If there are no targets you can choose from, those abilities will be removed from the stack (C.R. 603.3d).
EDIT (Dec. 22, 2021): Note that the game has no notion of "board wipes" as such. There are numerous spells that can negatively affect all permanents of a certain kind on the battlefield at the same time — Wrath of God, Blasphemous Act, Armageddon, Obliterate, Upheaval, Decree of Annihilation, etc. — and they don't all affect the permanents they apply to in the same way.
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willdice posted a message on Does Tibalt Cosmic Impostor exile itself (at 8 loyalty)Posted in: Magic RulingsQuote from fillasophy »If I control a Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor with 8 loyalty counters, then activate its -8 ability, its number of loyalty counters would go down to 0 and thus it would go to my graveyard as a state-based action prior to the resolution of the ability, correct?
Correct.
If so and nothing interferes, the resolution of its ability would then exile its own card (since it's in the graveyard as the ability resolves), and then the emblem it gave me would allow me to cast it once again... am I understanding that correctly?
Yes. The emblem works even after Tibalt has left the battlefield, and sees that Tibalt has exiled itself, allowing you to recast Tibalt. -
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peteroupc posted a message on Replacement effects as sources?? (Ranar the Ever-Watchful)Posted in: Magic RulingsQuote from fillasophy »
I did stumble across this thread re:Rain of Gore that asserts that the card whose ability generates a replacement effect is the "cause" of the events that come of that effect, but I'm still unclear on where the actual justification for that assertion is found from the CR...
Side note, I've not been able to find [CR 119.1f] ANYWHERE. What is this? Is it from an old numbering or version of the rules?
This is a different matter from the case at hand here. There, that's becauseRain of Gore cares about a "spell or ability" "caus[ing]" something to happen (see also Pure Intentions, Library of Leng [C.R. 108.1], Panharmonicon, and Firesong and Sunspeaker, which likewise use the word "cause", and see also this thread). In contrast, Ranar's last ability doesn't use the word "cause" when describing the event it cares about(see also Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind), and neither does Rest in Peace.
You probably mean C.R. 119.3f, rather than C.R. 119.1f. It was renumbered in the meantime to C.R. 120.3f.
In the case at hand here, Rest in Peace cares about whether a "card or token would be put into a graveyard from anywhere". Each time that would happen, the controller of Rest in Peace is told to "exile [that card or token] instead". Any effects of a spell or ability are still present, but due to a replacement effect, it may produce different events than normal.
For example, say you control Rest in Peace and an opponent sacrifices a creature. Normally, when a player sacrifices a permanent, they put it into its owner's graveyard (C.R. 701.17a). However, Rest in Peace changes how it works. Now, instead of the opponent putting the creature into its owner's graveyard, you exile that creature instead. (This is effectively as though C.R. 701.17a's first sentence were "To sacrifice a permanent, its controller has the controller of Rest in Peace exile it from the battlefield." instead of its usual text.) Even so, however, the opponent has still "sacrificed" that creature for the purposes of abilities that care (e.g., from Savra, Queen of the Golgari). See also Remand, C.R. 700.1, and C.R. 118.11.
EDIT (Apr. 22): See comment 10. -
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Argus Panoptes posted a message on Replacement effects as sources?? (Ranar the Ever-Watchful)Posted in: Magic RulingsQuote from fillasophy »I'm still trying to understand how replacement effects work in general. I think my confusion boils down to how I'm supposed to understand the word "replace" in [CR 614.1] "Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and completely or partially replace that event with a different event."? Specifically, does this mean the replacement effect is akin to a text change where the original effect is still active only with its concluding event having been swapped out (bad analogy time: like putting a new engine in an old car), or does it mean that a new effect/event is introduced that is itself a driving force (like trading in one car for another...oh god the puns...)? Similarly, in [CR 614.6] "If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead[...]", and calling it a modified event makes it sound like the original effect/event is still running, just with a different end result...
It's like the difference between an original plan and what actually happens. Think of a road detour while driving from point A to point B. That specific part of the original plan (driving along the now-closed road) isn't "still running" in any meaningful sense, but you are still traveling from the original point A to the original point B.
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peteroupc posted a message on Replacement effects as sources?? (Ranar the Ever-Watchful)Posted in: Magic Rulings
Not necessarily, in fact. If multiple players each control Rest in Peace, the effects of those Rest in Peace permanents would each change whether the same card or token goes to a graveyard. In that case, the controller of the object that would go to the graveyard (or its owner if it has no controller) chooses which Rest in Peace effect to apply (C.R. 616.1).Quote from fillasophy »Got it. So Rest in Peace prompts it's controller to exile the cards/permanents. It never explicitly uses the word "you", but it implies it in the phrasing. I wasn't sure if that was the case or if it basically just changed the behavior of whatever was sending the card/permanent to the graveyard, but sounds like everything else behaves as I expected. Thanks!
Also, if an opponent were to copy my Rest in Peace with say a Mirrormade or play their own Rest in Peace, they would function in timestamp order, so I would still be exiling everything because by the time the newer Rest in Peace tried to exile anything those things would already be heading to exile from my RIP. Correct?
For example, say you and your opponent each control Rest in Peace. When your opponent then sacrifices a creature, it would go to the graveyard, but since your opponent controls that creature, your opponent can choose to apply the Rest in Peace they control so that they would exile that creature instead, rather than you. -
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Argus Panoptes posted a message on Triggers that care about "this ability" - eg: Kodama of the East Tree (+ Sakashima), multiple copies of Carpet of Flowers, etcIt's convenient that you mentioned Ashling the Pilgrim.Posted in: Magic Rulings
_Lorwyn_(TM) Frequently Asked Questions
Compiled by Mark L. Gottlieb, with contributions from Laurie Cheers, Jeff Jordan, and Lee Sharpe
Document last modified September 25, 2007
***Theme: "Triple Shot" Elementals***
Three red Elementals have abilities that give you a bonus if it's the third time that ability has resolved in a turn.
* When such an ability resolves, it counts the number of times that same ability from that same creature has already resolved that turn. It doesn't matter who controlled the creature or the previous abilities when they resolved. A copy of this ability (created by Rings of Brighthearth, for example) will count toward the total. Abilities from other creatures with the same name don't count towards the total. Neither does an ability that's been countered.
Some other ability with a different source is not "this ability", even if the ability text is remarkably similar (and/or the source has the same name). -
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Argus Panoptes posted a message on Multiple "Growing" Evolve Triggers SequencingPosted in: Magic RulingsQuote from fillasophy »1) Zaxara, the Exemplary and Renegade Krasis are both on the field under my control. The Krasis currently has its base stats (it's a 3/2 with no counters). I cast Stonecoil Serpent with x=3. On cast, Zaxara creates a Hydra token, which resolves first and enters the field. As the Hydra enters, it triggers the Krasis's evolve ability.
No, the 0/0 Hydra entering the battlefield does not trigger that evolve ability.
603.4. A triggered ability may read “When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect].” When
the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers
only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it
resolves. If the condition isn’t true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does
nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the “intervening
‘if’ clause” rule. (The word “if” has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a
card; this rule only applies to an “if” that immediately follows a trigger condition.)
Example: Felidar Sovereign reads, “At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or
more life, you win the game.” Its controller’s life total is checked as that player’s upkeep
begins. If that player has 39 or less life, the ability doesn’t trigger at all. If that player has
40 or more life, the ability triggers and goes on the stack. As the ability resolves, that
player’s life total is checked again. If that player has 39 or less life at this time, the ability is
removed from the stack and has no effect. If that player has 40 or more life at this time, the
ability resolves and that player wins the game.
Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths Release Notes
Compiled by Eli Shiffrin, with contributions from Laurie Cheers, Tom Fowler, Carsten Haese, Nathan Long, and Thijs van Ommen
Document last modified April 6, 2020
The Hydra token enters the battlefield as a 0/0 creature. Any abilities that modify or trigger on this event apply. After the token is on the battlefield but before any player can take actions, +1/+1 counters are put onto the token.
Quote from fillasophy »The Krasis's ability sees the Hydra as a 3/3, and so evolves the Krasis since its toughness is lower. This is turn triggers the Krasis's 2nd ability and puts another +1/+1 counter on the Hydra. The Stonecoil (finally) resolves and enters the field, which triggers the Krasis's evolve ability, but because the now 4/3 Krasis's ability sees a 3/3 Stonecoil it doesn't evolve the Krasis because neither stat on the Krasis is lower.
The Renegade Krasis is still 3/2, so its evolve ability actually will trigger for the Stonecoil Serpent, meaning a +1/+1 counter for the Renegade Krasis, followed by a fourth one for the Hydra and Stonecoil Serpent
Quote from fillasophy »2) The same scenario as above, but there is also a Garruk's Uprising on the field under my control. Because the Krasis's second ability would make the Hydra a 4/4 after the token has already hit the field, it's far too late to trigger the Uprising's 3rd ability and I will not draw a card. However, did the Hydra ever have a chance?...Zaxara's ability says it creates a 0/0 hydra, then puts X +1/+1 counters on it, so if instead I cast the Stonecoil for x=4, would the Uprising see a 0/0 hydra enter, or a 4/4 hydra enter?
A 0/0 hydra entering the battlefield will fail to trigger Garruk's Uprising, just as it failed to trigger evolve. The Stonecoil Serpent entering with the counters will trigger Garruk's Uprising, though.
No, just like the first case.Quote from fillasophy »3) Zaxara, the Exemplary, Renegade Krasis, and Parallel Lives are all on the field under my control. The Krasis currently has its base stats (it's a 3/2 with no counters). I cast Stonecoil Serpent with x=3. On cast, Zaxara creates a Hydra token, which Parallel Lives's replacement effect instead makes 2 tokens which will enter at the same time, triggering the Krasis's evolve ability twice. -
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chaikov posted a message on The Ozolith + Vastwood HydraYes, an animated Ozolith would die if it receives enough -1/-1 counters to lower its toughness below one.Posted in: Magic Rulings
Yes, even a non-animated Ozolith would have +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters eliminate each other:
122.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704.
A very good question. Even the rule about moving counters does not actually state that old counters are to be eliminated while new, identical counters are to be created:Quote from fillasophy »I would think changing the phrasing from "put those counters" to "put the same counters" would fix a lot of the understanding issues. Is there a rules-based reason they didn't phrase it this way? But I digress...
122.5. If an effect says to “move” a counter, it means to remove that counter from the object it’s currently on and put it onto a second object. (...) -
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peteroupc posted a message on Mass reanimating 1/1 creatures vs Blanket -1/-1 effectsAssuming you control Shirei and Zulaport Cutthroat:Posted in: Magic Rulings
1. When one or more creatures you control with power 1 or less die at the same time, Shirei's and Zulaport Cutthroat's ability will trigger once for each such creature (C.R. 603.2). The abilities (and other triggered abilities that have also triggered) will go on the stack at the same time, namely the next time a player gets priority (C.R. 603.3), and you choose the order they go on the stack this way if you control more than one such ability (C.R. 603.3b). If multiple triggered abilities (delayed or not) trigger at the beginning of an end step (e.g., multiple Shirei delayed triggered abilities), they will all go on the stack at the same time (C.R. 512.1, 117.5). If you control more than one such ability, you choose the order they go on the stack (C.R. 603.3b). Two or more triggered abilities (delayed or not) can't resolve at the same time; rather, the topmost spell or ability on the stack can resolve (C.R. 117.4). In the case of Shirei, the cards referred to will reenter the battlefield in the reverse order in which the corresponding abilities were put on the stack (provided Shirei is still on the battlefield each time) (see also this thread). And if a creature brought to the battlefield this way has its toughness immediately reduced to 0 or less (e.g., due to Ethereal Absolution), that creature goes right back to the graveyard as a state-based action for having toughness 0 or less (makingZulaport Cutthroat's abilitythe ability of any Zulaport Cutthroat you control trigger if that creature was controlled by you) before the next Shirei ability or abilities get to resolve (C.R. 117.3b, 117.5, 704.5f) — and if an ability triggers this way, that ability will go on the stack above any ability already there (such as other Shirei abilities that haven't resolved yet) (C.R. 405.2).
2. Thrilling Encore puts all cards it refers to onto the battlefield at the same time, since it contains only one action verb, "put" (C.R. 608.2c) (compare with Shirei, which returns to the battlefield at most one card at a time per triggered ability that resolves).
EDIT: Clarification after comment 5 was posted.
EDIT (Jan. 27, 2020): Some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020. Corrected another rule citation. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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