Say if i dredge a Golgari Grave-troll, putting 3 lands, 2 Bridge from Below, and a Putrid Imp in that order. Would I get 2 zombies, or none? What if the Imp was dredge before the Bridges? Would I still get two zombies, or none?
So basically what I'm asking is when you dredge, are the cards put into your graveyard at the same time, or one at a time, and if it's the same time, would you still get Zombies.
Also if there is a Legacy Ichorid player around here, could you tell me how the average goldfish of the LED and LED-less version compare, just while your at it?
Although i haven't tested a solidarity list with the search, i don't think it would be that great still, and some people at the source seem to agree. In a meta of chalice, countertop, hymn, thoughtsieze, and force of will (and others), solidarity is a horrible choice, and i think that the search doesn't do enough for all that.
I'll get back to the subject after some goldfishing with a solidarity list with the search though.
[Edit:] Never mind, solidarity is a LOT better with search. thnx everyone who posted.
I highly doubt its due to card quality reasons. Compare it to Brainstorm. Brainstorm costs only a single mana more, and can be played turn 1 and 2 to help you find the 3rd land that you would need for the search. You do need fetchs for the same card quality, but it also doesn't counters stuff when you have a Counterbalance. Also, it sucks a lot less to have it countered.
I think someone in another forum said it was because it would let dredge dredge 12 cards for free, but seeing as the dredge player would have to get 3 lands first, wait til turn three, and then probably not be able to use all of the 3 untapped lands, it seem like a bad Careful Study. And i don't think it would make solidarity too powerful with so many Countertops and Chalices in the meta.
I would keep the wonders. This deck looks like a deck for Intuition. Fetches wonder and deep anal into the grave, a FoW and anything else you might want tutor, and at the worst gives tog +1.5/+1.5 for nothing or +3/+3 for three.
But the reason remora isn't very good in legacy is because there are no moxen to maintain the remora and the are too many creatures. Chrome mox and sower of temptation might be good additions.
Foil may be playable as well, but I'm not sure if you would want it.
Wouldn't Vexing Shusher be amazing in this deck? A 2/2 for 2 that lets you play deeds after the void and makes all your guys wood kins seems nice. Also, is chalice of the void any good?
How about ponder and serum visions? If you add those, it'll be easier to find the cards you need and replacement pyromancers if you lose one. With 4 of each, you can also cut 4 lands, and the cantrips are less useless than lands during combo time. I would also up the gelectrodes to 4, since after game one people will know how your combo works and aim all their removal at the gelectrodes and pryomancers, so it would be good to have extras.
Deathcloud for larger numbers is generally fine. It gives you time to put your card advantage engines into play, finding all the lands you need. Tezz can also search for lands. Combo will have a harder time recovering than you will, and it gives time to find chalice and trini. Preboard, deathcloud may be unusable against aggro if it doesn come out fast, but post-board it gives you time to regain all the life you lost with sun droplets, while they are locked out of the game by chalice and trini.
Not running clique may indeed be a mistake. I had not tested it because i wanted the deck to not be affected by deathcloud, but i will test that sometime soon.
As for blood moon, I have plenty of cards in the board to play without moon against aggro. I do miss it against control, but liliana and deathcloud do make up for some of that loss. Against combo, the moon does not do anything significant, while cloud and liliana can lock out combo for a while if you have drawn only a single piece of hate. You can use that piece of hate to slow them down, then use liliana and deathcloud to make sure they arent able to play around the hate until you can draw or tutor another piece.
This deck is pretty much standard Tezzerator with a heavy black splash for deathcloud (which is a game ender) and Liliana Vess, which can act as extra Tezzs or just make a ton of card advantage. This list also has a lot more card draw than traditional tezz lists. The sideboard is aimed at Aggro and Combo.
Would this deck work, or is it too slow? Feel free to make suggestions.
(I know the deck is 61 cards, but I have no idea what to cut and I'm fine with the extra card in tool box decks.)
Edit: I can't seem to make the decktags work past the first card, can someone help me?
Edit 2 : Fixed the deck-tags. Thanks, jimbo and throst.
You should probably add a Mindslaver to the gifts package. Smokestack might work as well.
Intuition could be batter than gifts in this deck, but that needs testing.
You should replace the sleight of hands with serum visions. Telling time and theive's fortune may be playable if you want more fetch.
One or two decree of silences whould be good, and I would run a single Debter's knell as an alternate win condition against runed halo or story circle or anything like that.
This deck is generally aims to have a good combo and control match-up (seeing as most of the top-tier decks seem to be control right now), and board out most of the discard for anti-aggro cards against said decks.
(On a side note, this deck is way too exspensive for me to afford, and I don't actually own it at the moment, however I don't think I can budget it and still make it work. I'll test on Apprentice, but when improving budget is not an issue, I just want to make the deck as good as possible, because i think it can stand a chance at competitivness.)
The single plains is so that you can Oblivion Ring moons.
The deck had 4 chrome moxen before, but i had a lot of unkeepable hands with two moxen in them, so it was cut to 3. The deck continued to have some feul problems, so it got cut to 2.
Other options for threats could be Tombstalker and the fourth Nyxathid.
The deck seems a little unconsistant with discard and threat drawing, and underpowered for the amount of colors it's running, and has a hard time against aggro. The sideboard will probably be designed against those decks.
I'm thinking of cutting a color, although I have no idea what right now.
The deck also does not have much plays for turn one. Funeral charm could be a possibility, although i personally don't like the card very much.
The manabase has been more or less fine. All the lands make black, with the exeption of the one plains. ALthough I haven't tested it, I don't think the mana base would do well if any non-black producing lands were added. The mana base is a little painhigh, though, and i don't see how i can change that without crippling the deck at the moment.
Although I have a general idea of how I want the sideboard to be, it is empty right now.
Esperzoa does not make the cut. 3 cc is extremely high for affinity, and will only do anything for a single turn since affinity often wins on turn four. On turn three, you want to be playing masters, or equipping cranial plating (or playing thoughtcasts and enforcers that haven't been played yet). Masters are just better, ornithopter and nexus are usually enough evasion, and it is a subpar fatty for affinity. Also, returning artis to your hand doesn't go well with affinity cards, plating, and master. Affinity also has no 187 effects to go with it (i geuss you could say free artis like lands and thopters go good with it, but thats not very good). (actually it has dissynergy with the deck if you are forced, somehow, to return creatures that had modular counters on them to your hand). It is also essentially a two card combo. It is just simply too slow for affinity, and not good enough compared to what affinity could and should be playing. (and personally i'd rather play somber hovergaurd, because it does not get hit by hate and for 2 mana less, it loses only a single power and toughness (the toughness doesn't matter too much, cuz no one plays shock), and it comes down on the same turn, too.)
When Sedraxis Alchemist comes into play, if you control a blue permanent, you may return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
2/2
Would this be any good in the deck? It looks like it could be a huge tempo boost.
Also, this is probably a noob question, but how come [card] Throatslitter[card/] isnt played as a 1-3 of? It seems like it would be great against decks like elves and zoo, and would be a 3 mana reusable terror with a built in shock.
Also, ditto for tarmogoyf/tombstalker. Isn't playing huge creatures for little mana tempo? (although with stalker, I think its cuz there shouldn't be too much in the graveyard.)
Also, how come cryptic isn't played more? It garantees some hits with your ninjas, makes some tempo, etc.
Chrome moxes also seem to make a lot of tempo. I know it makes card disadvantage, but you could run thirst of knowlegde to help with that. I guess the thirsts would replace the vision, thirst is better anyways.
Are remand and venser too slow for the meta now?
Would Familiars Ruse give us or them tempo?
Also the archmages seem to be great, but i feel the mistbinds should be a three of, they're great.
So basically what I'm asking is when you dredge, are the cards put into your graveyard at the same time, or one at a time, and if it's the same time, would you still get Zombies.
Also if there is a Legacy Ichorid player around here, could you tell me how the average goldfish of the LED and LED-less version compare, just while your at it?
Thanks in advance.
I'll get back to the subject after some goldfishing with a solidarity list with the search though.
[Edit:] Never mind, solidarity is a LOT better with search. thnx everyone who posted.
I think someone in another forum said it was because it would let dredge dredge 12 cards for free, but seeing as the dredge player would have to get 3 lands first, wait til turn three, and then probably not be able to use all of the 3 untapped lands, it seem like a bad Careful Study. And i don't think it would make solidarity too powerful with so many Countertops and Chalices in the meta.
So why is it banned?
But the reason remora isn't very good in legacy is because there are no moxen to maintain the remora and the are too many creatures. Chrome mox and sower of temptation might be good additions.
Foil may be playable as well, but I'm not sure if you would want it.
Deathcloud for larger numbers is generally fine. It gives you time to put your card advantage engines into play, finding all the lands you need. Tezz can also search for lands. Combo will have a harder time recovering than you will, and it gives time to find chalice and trini. Preboard, deathcloud may be unusable against aggro if it doesn come out fast, but post-board it gives you time to regain all the life you lost with sun droplets, while they are locked out of the game by chalice and trini.
Not running clique may indeed be a mistake. I had not tested it because i wanted the deck to not be affected by deathcloud, but i will test that sometime soon.
As for blood moon, I have plenty of cards in the board to play without moon against aggro. I do miss it against control, but liliana and deathcloud do make up for some of that loss. Against combo, the moon does not do anything significant, while cloud and liliana can lock out combo for a while if you have drawn only a single piece of hate. You can use that piece of hate to slow them down, then use liliana and deathcloud to make sure they arent able to play around the hate until you can draw or tutor another piece.
4 Seat of Synod
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Vault of Whispers
1 Riptide Laboratory
2 Tolaria West
1 Ancient Den
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawmagoth
1 Island
4 Trinket Mage
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Liliana Vess
2 Death Cloud
2 Repeal
3 Cryptic Command
4 Thoughtcast
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Chrome Mox
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Courier’s Capsule
1 Executioner’s Capsule
1 Disperser’s Capsule
2 Damnation
4 Sun Droplet
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Scepter of Fugue
Would this deck work, or is it too slow? Feel free to make suggestions.
(I know the deck is 61 cards, but I have no idea what to cut and I'm fine with the extra card in tool box decks.)
Edit: I can't seem to make the decktags work past the first card, can someone help me?
Edit 2 : Fixed the deck-tags. Thanks, jimbo and throst.
Intuition could be batter than gifts in this deck, but that needs testing.
One or two decree of silences whould be good, and I would run a single Debter's knell as an alternate win condition against runed halo or story circle or anything like that.
(On a side note, this deck is way too exspensive for me to afford, and I don't actually own it at the moment, however I don't think I can budget it and still make it work. I'll test on Apprentice, but when improving budget is not an issue, I just want to make the deck as good as possible, because i think it can stand a chance at competitivness.)
1 Plains
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Blood Crypt
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nyxathid
3 Blightning
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Rise // Fall
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Path to Exile
3 Oblivion Ring
The deck it 61 cards.
The single plains is so that you can Oblivion Ring moons.
The deck had 4 chrome moxen before, but i had a lot of unkeepable hands with two moxen in them, so it was cut to 3. The deck continued to have some feul problems, so it got cut to 2.
Other options for threats could be Tombstalker and the fourth Nyxathid.
The deck seems a little unconsistant with discard and threat drawing, and underpowered for the amount of colors it's running, and has a hard time against aggro. The sideboard will probably be designed against those decks.
I'm thinking of cutting a color, although I have no idea what right now.
The deck also does not have much plays for turn one. Funeral charm could be a possibility, although i personally don't like the card very much.
The manabase has been more or less fine. All the lands make black, with the exeption of the one plains. ALthough I haven't tested it, I don't think the mana base would do well if any non-black producing lands were added. The mana base is a little painhigh, though, and i don't see how i can change that without crippling the deck at the moment.
Although I have a general idea of how I want the sideboard to be, it is empty right now.
Thoughts are welcome.
:2mana::symb: Creature - Zombie Wizard
When Sedraxis Alchemist comes into play, if you control a blue permanent, you may return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
2/2
Would this be any good in the deck? It looks like it could be a huge tempo boost.
Also, this is probably a noob question, but how come [card] Throatslitter[card/] isnt played as a 1-3 of? It seems like it would be great against decks like elves and zoo, and would be a 3 mana reusable terror with a built in shock.
Also, ditto for tarmogoyf/tombstalker. Isn't playing huge creatures for little mana tempo? (although with stalker, I think its cuz there shouldn't be too much in the graveyard.)
Also, how come cryptic isn't played more? It garantees some hits with your ninjas, makes some tempo, etc.
Chrome moxes also seem to make a lot of tempo. I know it makes card disadvantage, but you could run thirst of knowlegde to help with that. I guess the thirsts would replace the vision, thirst is better anyways.
Are remand and venser too slow for the meta now?
Would Familiars Ruse give us or them tempo?
Also the archmages seem to be great, but i feel the mistbinds should be a three of, they're great.