I don't think Garruk even leaves play unless you cast Flame Javelin. A ruling I read on starcity a while back stated that adding/removing counters is a price that happens when the ability is played, and so cannot be responded to, so he'll have 4 counters before you can do anything. Is that correct?
fyi...stillmoon is not the answer to black white tokens....b/w has zealous persecutions to kill the stillmoons
You realize this is Reveillark, right? Zealous Persecution only kills Stillmoons, which not only can be brought back, but we also still have Cryptic, Negate, and Glen Elendra. Them only having 4 answers to a card of yours that can be recurred with Lark seems pretty good to me.
Grinning, I respond by casting esper charm to make him draw two cards twice, leaving him with no library.
You made an illegal play. Esper Charm says "Draw two cards" not "Target player draws two cards." Unless you had a few lands in hand to retrace Oona's Grace multiple times, you should have lost.
Well, I tried to make a list which had a better matchup than normal Esper Lark against burn and blightning decks, though I am also concerned about 5CC. There's a bunch of mid-range aggro in my meta (especially Bant), but I've been stomping them consistently. I am, however, considering making a change: -1 Warhammer, -1 Bitterblossom to put the two Glen Elendra's in the main deck, because they are too good. I also did put a 3rd Wrath in the deck. The single Infest was just because I had an extra SB spot, so no, it's not needed and will likely be replaced at some point.
So at my meta, we have a blightning deck and some 5CC. In order to try to beat them more consistently, I tuned my list to have a little more board presence as well as a style I'm more comfortable with: Esper Rock.
The deck has done well to start, though I have not played it much yet. I will be playing it tonight, so we'll see. I'm hoping this list will have more of a win-con than the more controling lists to help against mono-R/blightning, while stilling having a nice game against 5CC or aggro.
Some of you have obviously not heard of the greatest mind in Magic history: Mike Lopez, who demonstrates conclusively that Cancel belongs in every blue deck. Drop Cryptics for them now.
I've done well with it recently, though have yet to go against any of the 5CC decks in my meta, which will be the true test (my meta is basically aggro/mid-range aggro and 5CC, no faeries or Lark). I put in the 3 Ajani Vengeants mostly for the 5CC matchup, and they're not dead cards against mid-range either (though I will side them out against heavy aggro for my 3 extra SB sweepers). PtE is great removal against the bigger creatures in my meta (Colossus, figure of destiny, Rhox, etc.) and I have the 3 Wraths for mid-game backup.
My SB is kind of thrown together, but it seems to work. The 1 Martial Coup over a 4th Wrath is just for the hell of it, because it'd be a funny Wrath to play late-game. The two Runed Halos are because I wasn't sure what else to put there. I might take them out for a 3rd fallout and 1 more of something else. Is 4 Mind Shatters too much? Maybe 1 SB Cloudthresher for the 5CC matchup (being able to play stuff EOT can help a lot).
Then run some infests in your sideboard, and Snakeforms against those lieges and Oversouls of dusk.
Oversoul has pro-blue. There's no way we can really answer it outside of Vanquisher or pumping Colossus. Though it's not played in any common deck that I know of, so it's not much of an issue.
Wilt-Leaf Liege definitely shouldn't be a problem. If there's so much kithkin or G/W aggro in your meta, just run MD Terror. You can even throw Eyeblight's to the board if there isn't much RDW.
No. you're wrong. It's like magma spraying a realm razer with his first ability on the stack. It resolves and if you choose to champion, it just rfg's your champion target permanently.
Haha, I did not even think about that. Yeah, that would definitely be correct. I've just never seen it done before, since I guess the only situation anyone would want to would be to remove a Bitterblossom about to kill them.
No. The trigger would resolve after Mistbind was destroyed, and would just "fizzle" since there would be no Mistbind in play to champion anything with (I think the technical term is "countered upon resolution"). If it was simply a "come into play" ability that tapped all your lands, it would be ridiculously over-the-top; since it's not, you have a chance to destroy the Clique at instant speed with the champion trigger on the stack.
Regal Force is better in a ramp deck, obviously. Not in a Rock build with Bitterblossom, and a bunch of other cards that aren't green creatures (Warhammer, Garruk, Thoughtseize, etc.). Dusk Urchins fits more with my build and my curve, though as I said it's probably going to disappoint me. Finks and Thrinax and Colossus are just too good compared to every other 2-4-drop in Jund Colors. I need to splash white for Doran, I guess.
Mosswort Bridge is a good addition for some ramp builds, though. Spinerock Knoll may not be bad, either, at least in decks running MD Resounding Thunder.
I agree. Thoughtseize is very important in any control-oriented meta, and not having Thoughtseize, Garruk, Bitterblossom, and manlands basically takes out B/G Elves' best weapons against blue. If you want another archetype that also has positive matchups against Faeries, et al, I'd suggest RDW (and the cheaper, more burn-oriented builds are still good against control).
The only pro-black creatures worth mentioning are Colossus and Stillmoon Cavalier, and Colossus would be my biggest concern, which Thoughtseize helps against. Spitebellows also costs RR, which my manabase is not geared towards making immediately. And most importantly: Spitebellows is not an instant, which makes it terrible against Faeries. In short, it's a SB card in a meta filled with Chameleon Colossus, and that's about it. I was considering trying to work in Unmake, but I was having trouble hitting BBB early consistently, so I think I'll stick with Eyeblight's.
Over the past few weeks, I've played and/or tested against 5CC, faeries, Lark, RDW, Kithkin, Merfolk, and Jund Ramp. Lark and Merfolk are more difficult matchups, though post-board it's a bit better. RDW and Kithkin are both about 60-40, 5CC is also in the positive, and I have yet to lose a round to faeries. I only played Mana Ramp once, but I lost 1-2. I don't think it's a terrible matchup, though. I made the deck to have at least a decent matchup against the top-tier decks, so some other decks might still give it problems (I was hosed by R/G beats at States, for instance, though I'm still not entirely sure how). Basically, it's solid, but not great, against most highly-played decks, though I do tend to stomp on faeries pretty consistently.
Worst Matchups: Lark, Merfolk
Best Matchups: Faeries
Good Matchups: RDW, Kithkin, 5CC
I've looked at Jund Ramp for a bit, but I've found that Jund Rock has much better matchups, specifically against control (I have good matchups against 5CC and faeries). This is what I took to FNM last night:
The Dusk Urchins was a last-second, somewhat random decision. I want a creature in that slot, but I'm not entirely sure what yet. I've tested Troll Ascetic and Fulminator Mage and been unsatisfied. I'm not actually sure about Dusk Urchins yet since I only played it once all night, but we'll see. The card draw may actually be nice.
I went 2-1. I went a satisfying 2-0 against Toast, but I lost 1-2 against Merfolk in the 3rd round when I got mana screwed game 3. My merfolk matchup is similar to my kithkin matchup: tough game 1 (50-50, maybe), but if I draw any of my board-sweepers post-board, I win; if I don't (or can't play them), I lose. I've won most of my matchups, though (5 often one-sided board sweepers is pretty good against them).
Basically, instead of ramping, I play Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize MD and focus on applying pressure with minimal use of cards by using creatures that are pretty cheap to cast but difficult to deal with (Colossus, Finks, Thrinax), and also easy to bring back with Profane. Warhammer and Garruk also makes anything in the deck a big finisher.
You realize this is Reveillark, right? Zealous Persecution only kills Stillmoons, which not only can be brought back, but we also still have Cryptic, Negate, and Glen Elendra. Them only having 4 answers to a card of yours that can be recurred with Lark seems pretty good to me.
You made an illegal play. Esper Charm says "Draw two cards" not "Target player draws two cards." Unless you had a few lands in hand to retrace Oona's Grace multiple times, you should have lost.
4 Arcane Sanctum
4 Reflecting Pool
3 fetid Heath
3 Underground River
3 Mystic Gate
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Caves of Coilos
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 faerie Conclave
Creatures:
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Wall of Reverence
4 Mulldriter
3 Reveillark
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Terror
2 Wrath of God
3 Celestial Purge
3 Negate
3 Scepter of fugue
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Infest
The deck has done well to start, though I have not played it much yet. I will be playing it tonight, so we'll see. I'm hoping this list will have more of a win-con than the more controling lists to help against mono-R/blightning, while stilling having a nice game against 5CC or aggro.
4 Jungle Shrine
4 Reflecting Pool
3 Treetop Village
3 Wooded Bastion
3 Fire-lit Thicket
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
Creatures:
3 Cloudthresher
3 Broodmate Dragon
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Rampant Growth
4 Fertile Ground
2 Primal Command
3 Wrath of God
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Ajani Vengeant
4 Path to Exile
3 Banefire
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Martial Coup
4 Guttural Response
3 Mind Shatter
3 Celestial Purge
2 Runed Halo
I've done well with it recently, though have yet to go against any of the 5CC decks in my meta, which will be the true test (my meta is basically aggro/mid-range aggro and 5CC, no faeries or Lark). I put in the 3 Ajani Vengeants mostly for the 5CC matchup, and they're not dead cards against mid-range either (though I will side them out against heavy aggro for my 3 extra SB sweepers). PtE is great removal against the bigger creatures in my meta (Colossus, figure of destiny, Rhox, etc.) and I have the 3 Wraths for mid-game backup.
My SB is kind of thrown together, but it seems to work. The 1 Martial Coup over a 4th Wrath is just for the hell of it, because it'd be a funny Wrath to play late-game. The two Runed Halos are because I wasn't sure what else to put there. I might take them out for a 3rd fallout and 1 more of something else. Is 4 Mind Shatters too much? Maybe 1 SB Cloudthresher for the 5CC matchup (being able to play stuff EOT can help a lot).
Oversoul has pro-blue. There's no way we can really answer it outside of Vanquisher or pumping Colossus. Though it's not played in any common deck that I know of, so it's not much of an issue.
Wilt-Leaf Liege definitely shouldn't be a problem. If there's so much kithkin or G/W aggro in your meta, just run MD Terror. You can even throw Eyeblight's to the board if there isn't much RDW.
Haha, I did not even think about that. Yeah, that would definitely be correct. I've just never seen it done before, since I guess the only situation anyone would want to would be to remove a Bitterblossom about to kill them.
No, you just have to kill Mistbind after it comes into play with champion on the stack.
Mosswort Bridge is a good addition for some ramp builds, though. Spinerock Knoll may not be bad, either, at least in decks running MD Resounding Thunder.
Over the past few weeks, I've played and/or tested against 5CC, faeries, Lark, RDW, Kithkin, Merfolk, and Jund Ramp. Lark and Merfolk are more difficult matchups, though post-board it's a bit better. RDW and Kithkin are both about 60-40, 5CC is also in the positive, and I have yet to lose a round to faeries. I only played Mana Ramp once, but I lost 1-2. I don't think it's a terrible matchup, though. I made the deck to have at least a decent matchup against the top-tier decks, so some other decks might still give it problems (I was hosed by R/G beats at States, for instance, though I'm still not entirely sure how). Basically, it's solid, but not great, against most highly-played decks, though I do tend to stomp on faeries pretty consistently.
Worst Matchups: Lark, Merfolk
Best Matchups: Faeries
Good Matchups: RDW, Kithkin, 5CC
4 Savage Lands
4 Treetop Village
4 Reflecting Pools
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Graven Cairns
3 Twilight Mire
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Karplusan Forest
1 Gilt-Leaf Palace
Creatures:
4 Chameleon Colossus
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
2 Garruk, Wildpseaker
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Profane Command
3 Eyeblight's Ending
2 Terror
3 Mind Shatter
3 Guttural Response
3 Firespout
2 Jund Charm
1 Cloudthresher
2 Primal Command
1 Terror
The Dusk Urchins was a last-second, somewhat random decision. I want a creature in that slot, but I'm not entirely sure what yet. I've tested Troll Ascetic and Fulminator Mage and been unsatisfied. I'm not actually sure about Dusk Urchins yet since I only played it once all night, but we'll see. The card draw may actually be nice.
I went 2-1. I went a satisfying 2-0 against Toast, but I lost 1-2 against Merfolk in the 3rd round when I got mana screwed game 3. My merfolk matchup is similar to my kithkin matchup: tough game 1 (50-50, maybe), but if I draw any of my board-sweepers post-board, I win; if I don't (or can't play them), I lose. I've won most of my matchups, though (5 often one-sided board sweepers is pretty good against them).
Basically, instead of ramping, I play Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize MD and focus on applying pressure with minimal use of cards by using creatures that are pretty cheap to cast but difficult to deal with (Colossus, Finks, Thrinax), and also easy to bring back with Profane. Warhammer and Garruk also makes anything in the deck a big finisher.