That is super funny how it worked out that way. I mean you do have the perfect colors for creature removal though, so I would think you could Gamble into a card to get rid of that Archon. But I've had similar things happen to me, or I had the perfect setup and just forgot to use one card at the right time.
I do like my build, it's super fun to play, and the constant discard and draw screws up momentum on control decks, while the Mana Flare and Oath of Lieges screw up tempo for agro players and offer some great targets to gain life off of.
I may try the build you are doing online, but I've had the worst luck with Sunforger constantly getting destroyed the second I play it. I use it now just to waste opponents removal and counter spells so they don't kill the cards I'm going to use to do massive damage to them in one turn.
Teferi's Protection doesn't stop people from messing with your hand or library, I've had people make me discard everything after I cast that, which still ended the game for me. But it would be generally good to be able to cast in every turn. I would like to reuse Mizzix's Mastery so I will play Pull from Eternity for that purpose.
Hey guys, I see you've sparked up quite a discussion, I didn't read it all. Here's an answer to a couple of questions that I was asked:
Do you have enough mana?
I've never run into trouble with mana, I've always gotten Land Tax, Oath of Lieges, Mana Flare or some other card that lets me ramp lands (these cards also help opponents ramp and thus lay down creatures to gain life off of). And I always get Wheel effects, so if you are low on land just cast a Wheel. In fact it works better with less lands, as I'm constantly drawing new hands anyway and don't want too many.
Sun Forger is not a key part of the deck. Just a nice to have to use to cast instants and fill up the grave. My win cards are Mizzix's Mastery or Repercussions. I also don't run any token generators or other equipment, so my deck has a much different build.
My deck is more about filling the grave with instants and sorceries than tutoring for the right spells. When I tried to be more equipment focused my equipment kept getting exiled.
Contemplation could probably be replaced with Angel's Feather, I used it instead because I had something that needed 3 white permanents in play to work, but I took it out and can't recall what it is now. Or taken out altogether, but I like getting a bolt effect off of every white spell I cast.
Given that I make heavy use of enchantments and can cast it a second time form the grave Plea for Guidance has been a really good card in this deck. I don't like blowing up my Treasonous Ogre, when I cast Blasphemous Act, so I need to tutor for the damage prevention enchantments and Repercussions is always perfect at that time too.
Orim's Chant is normally good when I get it. But would consider taking it out for something better.
Sentinel Tower: I've never drawn this card, so don't know how good it is, but when I'm casting 20 spells at a time with Mizzix's Mastery, it would be very good.
Pull from Eternity is a card I would consider using, as I do tent to use flashback, so I could grab some exiled card, and do trick using my Mistveil Plains and maybe use Gamble to get the card again.
Well I created my own version which relies heavily on wheel effects. I tried your version first, but it was too slow, so took out all the equipment stuff and replaced it with wheel effects and ways to get mana. it's been working pretty well so far. Once game I was able to copy Mizzix's Mastery with two Wheel cards in my grave, so that I built up a huge second grave for the copy of Mizzix's Mastery, ended up casting over 20 spells, lots of fun.
I will need to post my deck list up one of these days, what's the best way to post a deck list on this site?
The hug strategy works very well in Boros, you might think you need to buy time, but really the doubling the mana and extra card draw allows you to set up very quickly and then control the whole game. People started blowing up those two cards as soon as I would play them after they played the deck, because they realized that I got way more advantage then they did, because I could lay down several damage doublers and then one shot everyone if I had the cards and enough mana.
I also have pretty much every card draw artifact and land in that deck, I really like one's that let everyone draw though. You can never have too much stuff to blow up. You also have to play like a hug deck and be very political, to ensure whoever is about to combo out get's stopped, in many cases this is you just whipping the board to the appreciation of everyone that wasn't going to combo out. Board wipes that do damage are much better than those that do not by the way.
This is the deck I had where Reliquary Tower was very good, as I would want to accumulate as many cards in my hand as fast as I could. Then cast all win condition cards in one turn.
I actually play a Boros control deck with no creatures and I feel that there are some very powerful cards that get overlooked because it's not easy to see how they all work together at first.
First off Orim's Chant is massively underrated. This card has won me more games than I can count.
Second, Repercussion is extremely powerful. Repercussion and Blasphemous Act can literally one shot all your opponents on the same turn if you let them set up properly.
I use a strategy where I play Mana Flare, Howling Mine, Helm of Awakening, let my opponents get out a bunch of creatures tap out and then use Repercussions to one hit kill them. Or I make them draw a bunch of cards and play Molten Psyche (which is surprisingly good in Boros) with a damage doubler and hit everyone of huge amounts of damage.
If you combine Repercussion with any thing that doubles damage, you actually do 4 x damage to the creatures controllers, and kill their creatures at the same time. So if you cast a lighting bolt for one mana, hit a creature for 6, and then the creatures controller for 12. Then you fork it. And hit a second creature, you just did 24 damage for 3 mana, killing two creatures.
Æther Flash with Repercussion and a damage doubler will keep almost all creatures off the board, and do 8 damage to the creature's controller every time they cast a creature spell.
Powerstone Minefield and a damage doubler can really reduce your chances of being attacked.
Reverse Damage and damage redirection cards are highly underrated. When someone swings for 21 commander damage and you have Furnace of Rath out, and redirect it back to them, then it's a one shot. Or you gain 10 life when they thought you were going to die and then on your turn board wipe, now the game is reset.
That's just my two cents. In Boros control creatures matter very little as you should be blowing up the board all the time, so you are better off setting up ways to one shot opponents, with damage doublers, Forks and Repercussion with cards like Chain Reaction.
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I think I'm actually going to load my deck up with every red card that doubles damage. Play two damage doublers (for 4x damage), play Sunforger, play the commander and Sunforge into Warleader's Helix, do 40 damage to one opponent, then fork it. And if you know someone's holding counter spells you would cast Orim's Chant on them first, many people don't see a one shot coming in a Red White deck, and don't realize how much damage you can easily do, as no one plays Boros control.
I only run Reliquary tower in two decks, and both have a lot of draw. In one you can easily get 10-15 cards per turn.
Sorrow's Path would actually be pretty good in an deck with enrage, but don't play it as a land play it as a spell. That's what I like about magic so many weird cards to build around.
Yeah, it sucks that people would take cards from others. I have a friend that had his whole collection stolen out of his garage including power 9 and all the money cards from the 90s.
Did you get a chance to test out those two new cards?
I'm thinking more of a deck that does damage when people discard, then playing cards like Wheel of Fortune, and having them lose two life for each card they discard. With Red, Blue and Black it seems very workable.
I think there have to be other cards that let you put all creatures in all grave yards in play under your control too, which would be good in this deck.
Cool thanks for the info. I've been playing off and on since 1994, but had a bit of bad luck with the high priced cards, got rid of my dual lands way back when I thought, "There's no way they can go any higher." Well they went higher, and higher and higher, to the point where it's hard to justify buying them for anything other than an investment.
I later got a binder stolen from me that had all my non-basic lands in it (Wastelands, fetch lands, Tolarian Academy, and about 30 others) and cards from Legends, Unlimited and Arabian nights. It also contained some of the better cards I had that where not in decks, but luckily most of my good non-lands cards where in decks.
So that left me with two Serra Sanctums in the land department.
Since they've gone up in price I don't feel comfortable taking them to play with, as it's easy to lose one card, so I'm thinking of proxying those. I am seriously considering buying a Man Crypt though, as I think it's going to continue to go up in value.
Sounds like your playgroup is pretty aggressive, I win about 75% of the time I play in my LGS, but I build my deck to look super weak early game and then one shot people turn 10 or so. It's all about the politics.
I'm making a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager discard deck, and was wondering if you have anything similar?
For some reason I thought you were running Saheeli, the Gifted in this deck. So I'm wondering why you chose the other Saheeli? The gifted version seems better in all respects except for casting cost.
Do you have this deck in real life or are you playing on line? I don't think I've ever seen someone play a Manacrypt since the 90's in games I've had in real life. But it is a perfect card for this deck, I decided to order a proxy as I don't currently have the budget for that all the other cards I'm getting.
Thanks for all the good feedback, I'm very interested to know how those changes go.
One other question, have you tried Contagion Engine and or the other similar artifacts? That seems like another good way to go infinite proliferate especially with Saheeli, the Gifted, not to mention that there a ways to take Saheeli infinite with the Engine and create infinite copies of your artifacts.
On Minamo, School at Water's Edge, I was thinking of purchasing this card, but I don't want to spend $20 on a card that will mostly be a Island.
Stealing Sol Rings is good, disrupts opponents and gives you more mana, I will reconsider Dack Fayden.
I do like my build, it's super fun to play, and the constant discard and draw screws up momentum on control decks, while the Mana Flare and Oath of Lieges screw up tempo for agro players and offer some great targets to gain life off of.
I may try the build you are doing online, but I've had the worst luck with Sunforger constantly getting destroyed the second I play it. I use it now just to waste opponents removal and counter spells so they don't kill the cards I'm going to use to do massive damage to them in one turn.
I've put my deck list up, here's a link to it. It works pretty well.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/firesong-and-sunspeaker-wheels-of-fire/?cb=1543099314
Best,
Andrew
I will need to post my deck list up one of these days, what's the best way to post a deck list on this site?
I also have pretty much every card draw artifact and land in that deck, I really like one's that let everyone draw though. You can never have too much stuff to blow up. You also have to play like a hug deck and be very political, to ensure whoever is about to combo out get's stopped, in many cases this is you just whipping the board to the appreciation of everyone that wasn't going to combo out. Board wipes that do damage are much better than those that do not by the way.
This is the deck I had where Reliquary Tower was very good, as I would want to accumulate as many cards in my hand as fast as I could. Then cast all win condition cards in one turn.
First off Orim's Chant is massively underrated. This card has won me more games than I can count.
Second, Repercussion is extremely powerful. Repercussion and Blasphemous Act can literally one shot all your opponents on the same turn if you let them set up properly.
I use a strategy where I play Mana Flare, Howling Mine, Helm of Awakening, let my opponents get out a bunch of creatures tap out and then use Repercussions to one hit kill them. Or I make them draw a bunch of cards and play Molten Psyche (which is surprisingly good in Boros) with a damage doubler and hit everyone of huge amounts of damage.
If you combine Repercussion with any thing that doubles damage, you actually do 4 x damage to the creatures controllers, and kill their creatures at the same time. So if you cast a lighting bolt for one mana, hit a creature for 6, and then the creatures controller for 12. Then you fork it. And hit a second creature, you just did 24 damage for 3 mana, killing two creatures.
Æther Flash with Repercussion and a damage doubler will keep almost all creatures off the board, and do 8 damage to the creature's controller every time they cast a creature spell.
Powerstone Minefield and a damage doubler can really reduce your chances of being attacked.
Reverse Damage and damage redirection cards are highly underrated. When someone swings for 21 commander damage and you have Furnace of Rath out, and redirect it back to them, then it's a one shot. Or you gain 10 life when they thought you were going to die and then on your turn board wipe, now the game is reset.
That's just my two cents. In Boros control creatures matter very little as you should be blowing up the board all the time, so you are better off setting up ways to one shot opponents, with damage doublers, Forks and Repercussion with cards like Chain Reaction.
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I think I'm actually going to load my deck up with every red card that doubles damage. Play two damage doublers (for 4x damage), play Sunforger, play the commander and Sunforge into Warleader's Helix, do 40 damage to one opponent, then fork it. And if you know someone's holding counter spells you would cast Orim's Chant on them first, many people don't see a one shot coming in a Red White deck, and don't realize how much damage you can easily do, as no one plays Boros control.
I want to do something similar but with a lot of reverse damage cards, to really surprise opponents.
And I've been wanting to play Well of Lost Dreams, Aetherflux Reservoir, Alhammarret's Archive and Sun Droplet in the same deck.
I also plan on using Pyromancer's Goggles, Primal Amulet, Bonus Round and Beacon of Immortality.
I think the damage doublers would be nice, as well as Sunbird's Invocation too.
Best,
Andrew
Sorrow's Path would actually be pretty good in an deck with enrage, but don't play it as a land play it as a spell. That's what I like about magic so many weird cards to build around.
And why not include Rhystic study and Reliquary tower?
Did you get a chance to test out those two new cards?
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I'm thinking more of a deck that does damage when people discard, then playing cards like Wheel of Fortune, and having them lose two life for each card they discard. With Red, Blue and Black it seems very workable.
And cards like Fraying Omnipotence, Dark Intimations Apex of Power, Torment of Hailfire, Cruel Ultimatum, The Eldest Reborn, Syphon Mind, Wit's End, Expropriate, Crosis, the Purger, Sepulchral Primordial, The Scarab God, Geth's Grimoire are all good spells.
Then run all the Bolas plains walkers.
And then to take advantage of the discards: Waste Not, Raiders' Wake, Animate Dead, Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Painful Quandary.
I think there have to be other cards that let you put all creatures in all grave yards in play under your control too, which would be good in this deck.
I later got a binder stolen from me that had all my non-basic lands in it (Wastelands, fetch lands, Tolarian Academy, and about 30 others) and cards from Legends, Unlimited and Arabian nights. It also contained some of the better cards I had that where not in decks, but luckily most of my good non-lands cards where in decks.
So that left me with two Serra Sanctums in the land department.
Since they've gone up in price I don't feel comfortable taking them to play with, as it's easy to lose one card, so I'm thinking of proxying those. I am seriously considering buying a Man Crypt though, as I think it's going to continue to go up in value.
Sounds like your playgroup is pretty aggressive, I win about 75% of the time I play in my LGS, but I build my deck to look super weak early game and then one shot people turn 10 or so. It's all about the politics.
I'm making a Nicol Bolas, the Ravager discard deck, and was wondering if you have anything similar?
Best,
Andrew
Do you have this deck in real life or are you playing on line? I don't think I've ever seen someone play a Manacrypt since the 90's in games I've had in real life. But it is a perfect card for this deck, I decided to order a proxy as I don't currently have the budget for that all the other cards I'm getting.
Best,
Andrew
One other question, have you tried Contagion Engine and or the other similar artifacts? That seems like another good way to go infinite proliferate especially with Saheeli, the Gifted, not to mention that there a ways to take Saheeli infinite with the Engine and create infinite copies of your artifacts.
On Minamo, School at Water's Edge, I was thinking of purchasing this card, but I don't want to spend $20 on a card that will mostly be a Island.
Stealing Sol Rings is good, disrupts opponents and gives you more mana, I will reconsider Dack Fayden.