Well, it has been winning. Just because it didn't make the top 8 doesn't mean it's trash.
Yea you've been saying since day one that you don't like the deck despite not having tested in, and offering little actual insight as to why, but it's not exactly something to brag about. Your post all but amounts to - "guys, stop playing different decks please!".
I don't need to test it to say the deck doesn't have what it takes. My insight is being proven time and time again.
I crack up at people asking "Where is Boros?" -Did people actually think that deck could "win"?
It's too one-dimensional - I have been saying that since day one. I am glad that it's not Top 8ing - maybe people will stop playing this terrible deck.
Manabase - Sucks.. I think more orchards is a good idea.
I miss Kor Hookmaster.
I think mage needs to be sideboard.
Knight of New Alara was really not bad.
Soul Stair Expedition - Was not bad. Still wondering if it should be duress.
I put them in the Pridemage's spot because Knight is very good. How were Pridemage's for you and how is the mana base? I often have trouble with getting that one type of mana I needed.
The mana base wont support Rhox War monk at the moment you need another misty and another Island.
If you go War Monk Route .. then you can cut a swamp and go with the Spell Pierce plan in SB over Duress.
Knight Can help with mana issues and adding 2 Nobel Heriarchs may also be needed, but Nobel is not White so cards like Brave and Honor get worse. Thats why cobra didnt make it into the deck.
I dont usually have a problem casting the first creature, but subsequent ones can be trouble some. You have to fetch carefully, just remember a Zig and a plains can cast any creature in the deck (Except War Monk). I think the manabase needs a little work at the moment. Be careful cutting forest and plains the Knight needs something to eat
RE: Pridemage - His exulted is relevant and he is really good in the Turbo fog match up - Killing Howling Mines and such. He also is good against the new ascension deck. I think you can take him to 3 MD and be fine.
I haven't played the deck enough to know it's thresholds. Like can you beat ascension without Pridemage, ect. I will probably run this at FNM to see how it fares.
----------Added 10/22
I am currently playing with the concept of adding Realm Razer to this deck. He is the ultimate Lock Creature.
I would probably cut the Baneslayers. Casting Razer with a white floating and a Brave in hand is GG.
You can also Path Razor with his ETB ability on the stack. I think this is the "Game Ender" that the deck need.
I might have to add Nobel Hierarch for Mana Accel.
I really like this deck, have you guys tried Rhox War Monk?
I haven't tried Rhox War Monk - I would assume that he would be in the Knight's Spot.
I am thinking of him or Wall of Denial in the SB against Red decks or Boros.
In testing tonight - I have found that:
1) 4 Knights might be too much.
2) Blightning is really bad for you.
I have been toying with the idea of adding a couple Soul Stair Expedition as the "Draw Spell" for the deck.
I will keep updating this post as my testing goes one. For now I am adding Wall of Denial to the SB and making room for 2 Soul Stair Expeitions (Cutting one Knight and one Honor of the Pure). Let me know if you guys make any break through
Sigiled Paladin - again 1st strike. but exalted as well,
could be use full if u take the deck in the direction of lock down, then attack with one bear.
have u though about any of the outlanders, they have protection from certain colours
and again match your theme
any thoughts about those?
I have stongly considered Knight of the White Orchid and Steward of Valeron. More so Knight of the White Orchid.
KotWO Has first strike which is great against Red haste decks. it also nabs you a plains which is all you need to cast your spells. He gets you to a turn 4 Baneslayer. He is really good. Of all the first strikers It would be a tough competition between him and White Knight but I think he would win on the fact that he thins my deck.
Steward is just a weaker version of KotWO - He give you mana, but no first strike.
I thought about the pro-bears, mainly the pro-red one... If I needed pro black I would run Stag then White Knight. So I think the Pro Red one is the only one that is relevant but isn't out Classed by another creature.
My plan at the moment is to play the deck until it's ugly underbelly is exposed and then use the tools available to fix it
I have been think about this deck in a variety of formats for a while now.. It started with Ideas of Aether Vials set at two counters.
Last season - I wanted to build this deck with Reveillark (Including Knight of the Reliquary) but it didn't have what it took - in my opinion.
The printing of Brave the Elements and Honor of the Pure have made this deck possible and maybe even good.
Things I really wish I had at the moment are:
Reveillark
Gaddock Teeg
Mulldrifter
LOL - Maybe there is an extended cocktail in this mess You could add Grove/ Punishing Fire and Run Tarmogoyf! LOL
These are great aggressive creatures but the slots that I have for "Aggro Creatures" are:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Baneslayer Angel
The rest of the creatures need to do something to "soft-lock" or else the deck falls apart. You know what I mean?
Most of the creatures are disruption with legs.. I use them to swing while my opponent tries to work around the issues that they are causing. If I just has creatures to swing with then I would be at my opponents mercy.
Also keep in mind Brave the Elements gives all my guys evasion, it makes them all pro-bears
have you thought about using Enlisted Wurm for the cascade effect.
you did say you wanted some card advantage.
he can warp into baneslayer angel. and is a big body for late game blocks.
i am not sure if you would consider him 2 slow.
any suggestions?
by the way.
i really like this deck idea
good on ya
I hadn't thought of Enlisted Wurm, I thought about Bloodbraid but it's not white and it's anti-synergetic with Canonist.
I know that cascading into a Baneslayer would be bonkers! but I think the Canonist adds more value.
I am hopping that KotR and Honor help solve the "big creature" problem. Knigth can also thin the deck to help my draws be Business instead of Land.
That really could be a dirty move lol. I like the idea of Spell Pierce.
Yeah me too- the problem that I had is blue mana and the fact that it doesn't peek for the Meddling Mage like Duress. I think you need to pick between the two and the deck is currently more fitted for the Duress.
I hope my comments are helpful - please feel free to try whatever - I am just sharing my thoughts/ conclusions.
I don't need to test it to say the deck doesn't have what it takes. My insight is being proven time and time again.
It's too one-dimensional - I have been saying that since day one. I am glad that it's not Top 8ing - maybe people will stop playing this terrible deck.
@misterorange @drawgoradio
2 Bogardan Hellkite
3 Sphinx of Lost Truths
Spells
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
4 Double Negative
2 Essence Scatter
3 Pyroclasm
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Chandra Ablaze
3 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Vampire Hexmage
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Akoum Refuge
4 Jwar Isle Refuge
2 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Magosi, The Waterveil
3 Mountain
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Sorin Markov
4 Spell Pierce
2 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
3 Swerve
2 Vampire Hexmage
LOL - He meant that Colossus shuffles back into the deck - Path is irrelevant.
1-2 Drop
Here is what I ran.
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Meddling Mage
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of New Alara
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Baneslayer Angel
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
2 Soul Stair Expedition
4 Ancient Ziggurat
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Plains
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Exotic Orchard
4 Duress
3 Harm's Way
2 Dauntless Escort
3 Day of Judgment
3 Pro-Red Bear
Some quick comments.
Manabase - Sucks.. I think more orchards is a good idea.
I miss Kor Hookmaster.
I think mage needs to be sideboard.
Knight of New Alara was really not bad.
Soul Stair Expedition - Was not bad. Still wondering if it should be duress.
I may still work on this deck.
Here is the list that I am going to try tonight.
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Meddling Mage
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Realm Razer
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
2 Soul Stair Expedition
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
4 Plains
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Island
4 Duress
3 Harm's Way
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Dauntless Escort
3 Day of Judgment
I think the mana base stll needs work .. Let me know if you can help.
I know that I can Path my Realm Razor with the first ability on the stack to remove all lands from the game permanently.
The question is do I get to keep land from Path? I would think not but I want to clarify.
The mana base wont support Rhox War monk at the moment you need another misty and another Island.
If you go War Monk Route .. then you can cut a swamp and go with the Spell Pierce plan in SB over Duress.
Knight Can help with mana issues and adding 2 Nobel Heriarchs may also be needed, but Nobel is not White so cards like Brave and Honor get worse. Thats why cobra didnt make it into the deck.
I dont usually have a problem casting the first creature, but subsequent ones can be trouble some. You have to fetch carefully, just remember a Zig and a plains can cast any creature in the deck (Except War Monk). I think the manabase needs a little work at the moment. Be careful cutting forest and plains the Knight needs something to eat
RE: Pridemage - His exulted is relevant and he is really good in the Turbo fog match up - Killing Howling Mines and such. He also is good against the new ascension deck. I think you can take him to 3 MD and be fine.
I haven't played the deck enough to know it's thresholds. Like can you beat ascension without Pridemage, ect. I will probably run this at FNM to see how it fares.
----------Added 10/22
I am currently playing with the concept of adding Realm Razer to this deck. He is the ultimate Lock Creature.
I would probably cut the Baneslayers. Casting Razer with a white floating and a Brave in hand is GG.
You can also Path Razor with his ETB ability on the stack. I think this is the "Game Ender" that the deck need.
I might have to add Nobel Hierarch for Mana Accel.
I haven't tried Rhox War Monk - I would assume that he would be in the Knight's Spot.
I am thinking of him or Wall of Denial in the SB against Red decks or Boros.
In testing tonight - I have found that:
1) 4 Knights might be too much.
2) Blightning is really bad for you.
I have been toying with the idea of adding a couple Soul Stair Expedition as the "Draw Spell" for the deck.
I will keep updating this post as my testing goes one. For now I am adding Wall of Denial to the SB and making room for 2 Soul Stair Expeitions (Cutting one Knight and one Honor of the Pure). Let me know if you guys make any break through
I have stongly considered Knight of the White Orchid and Steward of Valeron. More so Knight of the White Orchid.
KotWO Has first strike which is great against Red haste decks. it also nabs you a plains which is all you need to cast your spells. He gets you to a turn 4 Baneslayer. He is really good. Of all the first strikers It would be a tough competition between him and White Knight but I think he would win on the fact that he thins my deck.
Steward is just a weaker version of KotWO - He give you mana, but no first strike.
I thought about the pro-bears, mainly the pro-red one... If I needed pro black I would run Stag then White Knight. So I think the Pro Red one is the only one that is relevant but isn't out Classed by another creature.
My plan at the moment is to play the deck until it's ugly underbelly is exposed and then use the tools available to fix it
I have been think about this deck in a variety of formats for a while now.. It started with Ideas of Aether Vials set at two counters.
Last season - I wanted to build this deck with Reveillark (Including Knight of the Reliquary) but it didn't have what it took - in my opinion.
The printing of Brave the Elements and Honor of the Pure have made this deck possible and maybe even good.
Things I really wish I had at the moment are:
Reveillark
Gaddock Teeg
Mulldrifter
LOL - Maybe there is an extended cocktail in this mess You could add Grove/ Punishing Fire and Run Tarmogoyf! LOL
------
RE: Aeronaut and Yearling:
These are great aggressive creatures but the slots that I have for "Aggro Creatures" are:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Baneslayer Angel
The rest of the creatures need to do something to "soft-lock" or else the deck falls apart. You know what I mean?
Most of the creatures are disruption with legs.. I use them to swing while my opponent tries to work around the issues that they are causing. If I just has creatures to swing with then I would be at my opponents mercy.
Also keep in mind Brave the Elements gives all my guys evasion, it makes them all pro-bears
I hadn't thought of Enlisted Wurm, I thought about Bloodbraid but it's not white and it's anti-synergetic with Canonist.
I know that cascading into a Baneslayer would be bonkers! but I think the Canonist adds more value.
I am hopping that KotR and Honor help solve the "big creature" problem. Knigth can also thin the deck to help my draws be Business instead of Land.
Thanks for the input! Keep it coming.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=193163
WBGu Zigguart "Bear" Control
Yeah me too- the problem that I had is blue mana and the fact that it doesn't peek for the Meddling Mage like Duress. I think you need to pick between the two and the deck is currently more fitted for the Duress.
I hope my comments are helpful - please feel free to try whatever - I am just sharing my thoughts/ conclusions.