So to sum up this thread:
If you are running green, play 3 Cloudthreshers and 2 squall line.
If you are playing green, play 4 Sulfurous blast and magus of the moon.
If you are playing white, pray you can resolve a Crovax.
If you are playing black, run your own bitterblossoms and make them discard theirs.
If you are playing blue, sux to be you. Evacuation? pray you can counter their bitterblossoms.
RDW beats Faeries because Blossom, Mistbind and Sower don't work.
Merfolk beats Faeries because of Islandwalk.
What do they have in common? They're both aggro decks with hate.
I have never lost to Merfolk or RDW with faeries. Many "aggro" decks don't do the trick. Between token's chump blocking and cryptic command tapping creatures down - you can buy enough time to win.
I lost a match to Rouges once and a couple of games to Big Green/Red Mana ramp. Last tournament my faerie deck did not loose a single game.
Keep in mind It's not unusual for the faerie deck to play a whole match and never drop an island. I think I run like 3 islands to the 16 other sources of blue mana in the deck.
Isn't RDW a good plan against it? Even better is Skred red. I don't think they can stand up against pyroclasm and the lot of them.
I think what most people don't realize is that pyroclasm and firespout are terribly hard to resolve in the faeries match-up because they are sorcery speed.
Skred is great for toasting a faerie.. but that's not going to win you the game when some one toast's one of my faeries .. I don't even flinch I expect that to happen.. I probably wouldn't counter it if I could- unless a spell stutter was going to put lethal on the board then I may just counter it to win next turn.
Ego Erasure has got to be the worst idea I've ever heard. It stops random things and most of the time is a dead card or really bad card disadvantage.
Rebuff the Wicked is also pretty bad, because you don't want to be playing defensively against faeries and that's all this card does.
Who are you to say that Squall Line isn't a good solution to faeries? You think yours are better? IMO, they are random theory-based junk. They don't even work in theory.
Yeah- It's all theory isn't it .. because if any of it was truly reality.. faeries would not be dominating the format as they are. I don't think there is any proven tried and true way for dealing with the fae.. the best thing we can do is just try to work some solid strategies out through ideas and play testing.
Ego Erasure -- This stops the Spellstutter sprite, and kills Mistbind Clique before it can champion anything (save a Bitterblossom). Too expensive as a maindeck choice, it might work as a sideboard option.
Rebuff the Wicked -- This card is specific tech against Cryptic Command. It not only prevents them from bouncing a permanent, it also counters the command's second ability, which is usually countering one of your spells. Versitile enough to be maindeckable in some decks.
None of these (nor any cards previously discussed here) are good solutions for Faeries. If there were an easy solution, Faeries wouldn't be the best deck out there right now. All you can do is load up the hate until your local metagame stops playing it.
I like the Ego Erasure trick! I might include that in my article. It's especially good because any banneret makes it cheaper. Thanks!
Just a quick note. I don't know if any of you read this but I posted an article on beating faeries here. I run faeries and have been for a while, I thought this article might help. Check it out if you haven't already.
Anyway, thanks for this little... article? I spotted (quite) a few typos, though, which annoyed me a bit like always.
Would you say that Riftsweeper is a good card against Faeries? From what I've seen, they run out of gas pretty quickly without those Visions.
Thanks for reading. Yeah I think riftsweeper is good especially with the new persist deck (gargdon) and it nails a search for tomorrow. I am not sure how devastating it is for faeries to loose a visions (some people side the vision out in game 2- I know I do sometime). I mean you want to take shots when you can - beating faeries is not going to happen with one card, killing the visions might just give you the window you need. But to run a card solely to nail the visions, I am not sure if that is a good idea.
In regards to the section about "in Responce too"
These cards are good against players that over extend and definitely put pressure on bad hands but a lot of these things don't work so well in practice because after playing a second turn bitterblossom, and then dropping a third turn Scion they no longer have to drop any more threats on the board, so they don't have to give you the window you need to flash these cards in unless there greedy.
Of course instants are better than Sorceries but unfortunately still not great. Split Second however is awesome.
I think your paragraph about stopping the clock is excellent, that is why red decks put pressure on them, they force the fairie deck to be proactive and all of a sudden all those low toughness creatures become a liability on defence.
Thanks for reading!
I think you make a good point about some faerie players over extending themselves. But even a second turn bitterblossom gives you a window to play a threat. Also keep in mind any fae deck that has sowers in maindeck will have to tap a bit of mana to play it. This creates a main phase window for a bait and drop.
Regardless your statement rings true and I think that is partially the point that I wanted to make- if you want windows of opportunity against the fae, you will need to have creatures with flash and instant speed spells.
I don’t know about you but I’m sick of hearing about faeries already! Faeries are a good deck right now (that's why I run it) but I hate to see anything dominate the format like faeries is doing right now. I have decided to give you the 411 on how to kill these little blue and black piranhas. Before we know how to beat faeries, we must first learn how to be faeries… ok that sounded weird, let’s move on.
What Makes Faeries Work?
1) Instant Speed- Hi, yeah I play magic on your turn. From creatures to counterspells you are going to see them during your turn. This is where faeries live. That’s why flash creatures like Cloudthreshser are so devastating to faeries- "In response to you playing your Mistbind Clique, I am going to play a Cloudthresher and toast your board." If there are no faeries to champion then Mistbind Clique bites the dust.
2) Consistent Manabase - As far as multicolor decks go, this manabase is one of the most consistent and powerful in standard. The deck typically packs 24 lands -this is to avoid a land-stall (which by the way can be devastating to faeries-more on that later). The manland is tribal (this cannot be said of its 10th edition counterparts) which mean that the Scion gives the land shroud and +1/+1 when it is a creature. River of Tears brings a unique flexibility to the manabase at heart it’s an island, but when it’s convenient it can be a swamp with no drawback- it ensures that the UUU is open for their Cryptic Command.
3) Aggro Clock - Typically control decks consist of two elements: Control and Win Conditions. The strategy is typically slow the game and control the board until you play a win condition. Then protect the win condition until you – well, until you win. The problem with faeries is that the creatures (the win condition) are also the control- in addition to the control spell base. While spells are being countered (Spellstutter, Scion –removal), creatures are being stolen (Sower) and lands are being tapped out (Mistbind) a force of flyers is also mounting. Add Bitterblossom to that mix and Faeries can punch a fast agro clock and race pretty much any deck in the format.
Putting our Intel (and I’m not talking core 2 duo) to Work.
The logical plan of attack is usually exploit the weaknesses of your opponent and naturalize their strengths. Let’s face it, there are no obvious weaknesses in the faerie deck – so we have to erode their powerbase. I will give some strategies to help beat faeries while maintaining card choices that are good in standard:
1) "In Response To" – Timing is the key and having options to respond to their plays- answer with instant speed spells and creatures.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: Remember I said faeries live on your turn, not anymore they don’t- Tef has come with an eviction notice. He is a perfect terror-target so make sure you are packing protection. A funny response may even be Shadowmoor’s newcomers Aphotic Wisps or Prismwake Merrow, oh look now Teferi is black. Tef will also keep a suspended Ancestral Vision from hitting play.
Cloudthresher: 2 Damage to all flyers and players, 7/7 with reach. Enough said.
Bogardan Hellkite: Unless you are running ramp or D-storm this guy might be in your curve, but if you can support him he is a strong drop against faeries. He can wipe a board or slam 5 to the dome and leave a 5/5 flyer on the board.
Evacuation: A carefully timed evacuation can destroy a token army as well peel a well mounted force of creatures and manlands off the board.
2) Land Disruption- not destruction. In my opinion land destruction is not a viable option in standard. The key is to find cards that offer land disruption but also have synergy with the the rest of your deck.
Boomerang: This is one of the cheaper ways to set someone back a land drop. It also bounces everything else under the sun.
Fulminator Mage: He’s a 2/2 that can give you land advantage. If you can stall faeries at 2 or 3 land with this guy he is definitely worth the sac, 4 lands is the comfort threshold for faeries – as a faerie player, I know that if I can make it to 4 lands that chances are I will be able to dig myself out of any bind.
Desus of Calamity: Trample is a problem for faeries; their fragile little bodies can not stop the crushing blows of a trampling beast. Bonus this guy blows up lands. His colors also allow him to be run with Shusher and Guttural Response.
Another quick note, with faeries packing 8 manlands, remember removal spells can be cheap land distruption.
3) Stop the Clock – The ticking clock of aggro control can creep up fast. The threats are curve out in this order, Bitterblossom, Scion of Oona, and Mistbind Clique. They should be delta with in that order of importance if you have the means.
Raking Canopy: If you can resolve this, it will slow faeries down, but it will not stop them. The key is to keep the pressure off of you until you gain some board control. Once they have a Cryptic Command this thing is going to get bounced and their mounting army is going to run you over.
Porphyry Nodes: No one that I know has really pointed this out yet- so I am telling you now. This is medicine for the Bitterblossom, this will typically take care of every token that comes out. Essentially it gives you the life advantage and a manage population of enemies. This is also a one drop, it’s a good enchantment to sneak out after you drop some counter-bait. Lastly you can skip a token and nail a Scion with it.
Sulfurous Blast: It’s an instant speed board sweeper (In terms of faeries)- it’s a good option to be packing in you are running a good portion of red.
A Little More Before I Go
Aside from eroding the core strengths of the faerie deck, there are some other things that maybe helpful in disruption the faerie gameplan. Spells that can’t be countered are particularly useful against a deck with heavy counter such as faeries.
Split Second- These spells say “No” to counter. Sudden Spoiling: This is one of my favorite cards, ever. At worst it give you a fog, at best if you have an army this will let you selectively eliminate their creatures. Depending on the board you may want to block their 0/2 manlands and leave them mana hosed. If you combine this with spot/mass removal and blocking and this can regain you control of the board.
Sudden Shock: Bye, Bye, Sower –Bye, Bye Scion – Hello board control. This will wax a troublesome faerie or squeeze that last 2 points of damage in.
Krosan Grip: One word, Bitterblossom. Yeah you need to nip that in the bud.
Protection- Shadowmoor has come bearing gifts for the control hater!
Guttural Response: One of the more satisfying moments in magic is when you see a Cryptic Command hit the board and you have this in hand.
Vexing Shusher: This guy is good but you better believe that he won’t sit on the board for long. Try playing him in the same turn as the un-counterable spell that you want to cast.
Well that's all that I have for now. I will keep this article updated as we develop new ways to crush the Fae. Peace.
No, it's saying you shouldn't maindeck (or actually, play at all) this over actual removal spells.
People in this thread seem to be saying "it's a good blocker" a lot. That right there should clue you in to why this card isn't actually very good. People barely even block at all in Standard--when was the last time you or anyone included a creature in a serious deck for no other reason than to block with it? You can count on one hand the number of creatures with Defender that are actually really good, and Plumeveil isn't even the pinky.
LOL - 4/4 Flying wall for 3 at instant speed. How can that not be good? I mean we put counter magic in our deck to "block" in a way. This guy needs to be looked at as a control element nothing more. His name should always be preceded by "In response to..."
LOL - You forgot one.
If you want to win, run faeries
He is not bad, he has a place in some sideboards.
I have never lost to Merfolk or RDW with faeries. Many "aggro" decks don't do the trick. Between token's chump blocking and cryptic command tapping creatures down - you can buy enough time to win.
I lost a match to Rouges once and a couple of games to Big Green/Red Mana ramp. Last tournament my faerie deck did not loose a single game.
Keep in mind It's not unusual for the faerie deck to play a whole match and never drop an island. I think I run like 3 islands to the 16 other sources of blue mana in the deck.
I think what most people don't realize is that pyroclasm and firespout are terribly hard to resolve in the faeries match-up because they are sorcery speed.
Skred is great for toasting a faerie.. but that's not going to win you the game
You can get a Bitterblossom for 18 bucks.
http://findmagiccards.com/Cards/MT/Bitterblossom.html
Yeah- It's all theory isn't it .. because if any of it was truly reality.. faeries would not be dominating the format as they are. I don't think there is any proven tried and true way for dealing with the fae.. the best thing we can do is just try to work some solid strategies out through ideas and play testing.
I like the Ego Erasure trick! I might include that in my article. It's especially good because any banneret makes it cheaper. Thanks!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=114100
Thank you for reading and for your encouragement.
Thanks for reading. Yeah I think riftsweeper is good especially with the new persist deck (gargdon) and it nails a search for tomorrow. I am not sure how devastating it is for faeries to loose a visions (some people side the vision out in game 2- I know I do sometime). I mean you want to take shots when you can - beating faeries is not going to happen with one card, killing the visions might just give you the window you need. But to run a card solely to nail the visions, I am not sure if that is a good idea.
Thanks for reading!
I think you make a good point about some faerie players over extending themselves. But even a second turn bitterblossom gives you a window to play a threat. Also keep in mind any fae deck that has sowers in maindeck will have to tap a bit of mana to play it. This creates a main phase window for a bait and drop.
Regardless your statement rings true and I think that is partially the point that I wanted to make- if you want windows of opportunity against the fae, you will need to have creatures with flash and instant speed spells.
Thanks again for your contribution.
What Makes Faeries Work?
1) Instant Speed- Hi, yeah I play magic on your turn. From creatures to counterspells you are going to see them during your turn. This is where faeries live. That’s why flash creatures like Cloudthreshser are so devastating to faeries- "In response to you playing your Mistbind Clique, I am going to play a Cloudthresher and toast your board." If there are no faeries to champion then Mistbind Clique bites the dust.
2) Consistent Manabase - As far as multicolor decks go, this manabase is one of the most consistent and powerful in standard. The deck typically packs 24 lands -this is to avoid a land-stall (which by the way can be devastating to faeries-more on that later). The manland is tribal (this cannot be said of its 10th edition counterparts) which mean that the Scion gives the land shroud and +1/+1 when it is a creature. River of Tears brings a unique flexibility to the manabase at heart it’s an island, but when it’s convenient it can be a swamp with no drawback- it ensures that the UUU is open for their Cryptic Command.
3) Aggro Clock - Typically control decks consist of two elements: Control and Win Conditions. The strategy is typically slow the game and control the board until you play a win condition. Then protect the win condition until you – well, until you win. The problem with faeries is that the creatures (the win condition) are also the control- in addition to the control spell base. While spells are being countered (Spellstutter, Scion –removal), creatures are being stolen (Sower) and lands are being tapped out (Mistbind) a force of flyers is also mounting. Add Bitterblossom to that mix and Faeries can punch a fast agro clock and race pretty much any deck in the format.
Putting our Intel (and I’m not talking core 2 duo) to Work.
The logical plan of attack is usually exploit the weaknesses of your opponent and naturalize their strengths. Let’s face it, there are no obvious weaknesses in the faerie deck – so we have to erode their powerbase. I will give some strategies to help beat faeries while maintaining card choices that are good in standard:
1) "In Response To" – Timing is the key and having options to respond to their plays- answer with instant speed spells and creatures.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: Remember I said faeries live on your turn, not anymore they don’t- Tef has come with an eviction notice. He is a perfect terror-target so make sure you are packing protection. A funny response may even be Shadowmoor’s newcomers Aphotic Wisps or Prismwake Merrow, oh look now Teferi is black. Tef will also keep a suspended Ancestral Vision from hitting play.
Cloudthresher: 2 Damage to all flyers and players, 7/7 with reach. Enough said.
Bogardan Hellkite: Unless you are running ramp or D-storm this guy might be in your curve, but if you can support him he is a strong drop against faeries. He can wipe a board or slam 5 to the dome and leave a 5/5 flyer on the board.
Evacuation: A carefully timed evacuation can destroy a token army as well peel a well mounted force of creatures and manlands off the board.
2) Land Disruption- not destruction. In my opinion land destruction is not a viable option in standard. The key is to find cards that offer land disruption but also have synergy with the the rest of your deck.
Boomerang: This is one of the cheaper ways to set someone back a land drop. It also bounces everything else under the sun.
Fulminator Mage: He’s a 2/2 that can give you land advantage. If you can stall faeries at 2 or 3 land with this guy he is definitely worth the sac, 4 lands is the comfort threshold for faeries – as a faerie player, I know that if I can make it to 4 lands that chances are I will be able to dig myself out of any bind.
Desus of Calamity: Trample is a problem for faeries; their fragile little bodies can not stop the crushing blows of a trampling beast. Bonus this guy blows up lands. His colors also allow him to be run with Shusher and Guttural Response.
Another quick note, with faeries packing 8 manlands, remember removal spells can be cheap land distruption.
3) Stop the Clock – The ticking clock of aggro control can creep up fast. The threats are curve out in this order, Bitterblossom, Scion of Oona, and Mistbind Clique. They should be delta with in that order of importance if you have the means.
Raking Canopy: If you can resolve this, it will slow faeries down, but it will not stop them. The key is to keep the pressure off of you until you gain some board control. Once they have a Cryptic Command this thing is going to get bounced and their mounting army is going to run you over.
Porphyry Nodes: No one that I know has really pointed this out yet- so I am telling you now. This is medicine for the Bitterblossom, this will typically take care of every token that comes out. Essentially it gives you the life advantage and a manage population of enemies. This is also a one drop, it’s a good enchantment to sneak out after you drop some counter-bait. Lastly you can skip a token and nail a Scion with it.
Sulfurous Blast: It’s an instant speed board sweeper (In terms of faeries)- it’s a good option to be packing in you are running a good portion of red.
A Little More Before I Go
Aside from eroding the core strengths of the faerie deck, there are some other things that maybe helpful in disruption the faerie gameplan. Spells that can’t be countered are particularly useful against a deck with heavy counter such as faeries.
Split Second- These spells say “No” to counter.
Sudden Spoiling: This is one of my favorite cards, ever. At worst it give you a fog, at best if you have an army this will let you selectively eliminate their creatures. Depending on the board you may want to block their 0/2 manlands and leave them mana hosed. If you combine this with spot/mass removal and blocking and this can regain you control of the board.
Sudden Shock: Bye, Bye, Sower –Bye, Bye Scion – Hello board control. This will wax a troublesome faerie or squeeze that last 2 points of damage in.
Krosan Grip: One word, Bitterblossom. Yeah you need to nip that in the bud.
Protection- Shadowmoor has come bearing gifts for the control hater!
Guttural Response: One of the more satisfying moments in magic is when you see a Cryptic Command hit the board and you have this in hand.
Vexing Shusher: This guy is good but you better believe that he won’t sit on the board for long. Try playing him in the same turn as the un-counterable spell that you want to cast.
Well that's all that I have for now. I will keep this article updated as we develop new ways to crush the Fae. Peace.
Thats # 2 in my book.
LOL - 4/4 Flying wall for 3 at instant speed. How can that not be good? I mean we put counter magic in our deck to "block" in a way. This guy needs to be looked at as a control element nothing more. His name should always be preceded by "In response to..."