How does the deck do against non Jund things like Vamps or u/w Control or RDW?
4 Maindeck Purges really help against red deck and Vamps as do the 4 Hindering Light.
The deck doest great against RDW, Vamps, Jund (It's Da Jund Killa).
U/W is kinda weird. Like any control on Control matchup it boils down to who sticks a Jace. Canonist can be a liability, but Lodestone punishes them if they slip on mana.
@jmedina: you top8ed a ptq but you didn't said anything about that rogue 1st place. Would you give us your opinion about it?
For what it's worth, I like the deck. I used to play a similar style deck in standard, it was Momentary Blink + Revilark and Gargadon.
I have never played with this deck or against it so forgive my ignorance in the following rant.
The deck seems to be strong in the tempo department. It makes your opponents removal less relevant when you can just sacrifice things to the Gargadon in response. Cards like Ajani Vengeant, Vendillion Clique and Remand keep the tempo in your favor.
What I didn't understand was why not just run Foundry Sword in this deck? I mean you can sac Thopter Tokens to the Gargedon
Anyway- I dont think the deck is "Bad" but then again -I was the one running Polymorph- LOL
All I know is if this deck becomes a regular on the scene - I will be packing some Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in my sideboard
Verses Jund it is a great answer for Thrinax, but spot removal is pretty bad against Jund in general- This is because of the inherent card advantage that the spell in Jund generate. So it's a bad argument to say that Path is bad because it's bad against Jund because all spot removal is.
Path is used in Legacy so that alone shows it's strength. IMHO
I have been playing quite a bit with knightelite's original list. I have been reading around and am considering changing that a bit, but I am fine tinkering there. My issue is the match up against Boros. I have had a lot of success against every other deck I have run into, but I can not for the life of me take down a Boros deck unless they get a terrible draw.
Polymorphing into Iona is not so great, because they have the threat of path and burn, so if I have enough life I am left naming white and hoping I can kill them before they kill me (eek!) or if I am low on life I name red and hope they don't have path. I also have trouble profitably blocking when white is named due to the risk of any burn taking Iona out.
I can take down bad borros players that over commit to the board and let me lay down a sweet day of judgment or something, but people that remotely know how to play boros know better than to set me up for the sweet turn.
I was thinking about intimidation bolt to stop the alpha strike, though they can just remove their guy in response, maybe martial coup to get more blockers? I was also considering throwing 3 walls of denial in the board and siding out the combo all together and relying on an army of tokens, walls, and planeswalkers to hopefully take them down, but even that seems less than ideal, because they just burn out any planeswalker they want.
Anyone have a magic solution to Borros?
I go Sunspring and put in Progenintus; Then Race. The other thing is that I have Thopter Founder which makes blockers and gains me life. Another plus to the Foundry package. Here is my latest list.
I only posted this thread for help on the deck. Asking me questions on how should i fix it, is something i should be asking you guys. im not a pro and thats why i posted.
appreciated, but if you really insist on thopter foundry at least go to courier's capsule over ponder and try to work in more targets other than borderposts which are a little meh in and of themselves... basically if you want to go that route i would cut for any artifacts that i can
which just gave me a huge thought for SB tech against the deck - executioner's capsule roflcopter
i digress, basically any card you have with an artifact variant might better serve as that variant (despite most of these types of cards being much less effective) just seems a little more... "scattered"
I prefer Ponder over Capsule, I see more cards and I dont want to draw an Iona or two for that matter. It is also less mana intensive.
Adding artifacts will probably make the deck worse and unless I have Foundry the artifacts cant be tokens anyway - If I have foundry that essentially I have a token because I can just sac the foundry to itself.
The original build had Capsule and Tezzeret, but the artifacts in T2 right now totally suck, spells are just better at the moment. IMO
The Borderpost help in the late game when I want to swing with Iona/Progen and be able to sustain the crack back. With a Foundry on board it gives me a Meluko effect with the Borderposts except I also gain a life for each token. Against Mono Red, this helps me stay alive.
Anyway. I can talk all day about this So I wont bore you guys anymore.
4 Maindeck Purges really help against red deck and Vamps as do the 4 Hindering Light.
The deck doest great against RDW, Vamps, Jund (It's Da Jund Killa).
U/W is kinda weird. Like any control on Control matchup it boils down to who sticks a Jace. Canonist can be a liability, but Lodestone punishes them if they slip on mana.
People dont realize how good he is against Jund!
Here is the list:
Da Jund Killa
LMK What you think!
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- Woapalanne
For what it's worth, I like the deck. I used to play a similar style deck in standard, it was Momentary Blink + Revilark and Gargadon.
I have never played with this deck or against it so forgive my ignorance in the following rant.
The deck seems to be strong in the tempo department. It makes your opponents removal less relevant when you can just sacrifice things to the Gargadon in response. Cards like Ajani Vengeant, Vendillion Clique and Remand keep the tempo in your favor.
What I didn't understand was why not just run Foundry Sword in this deck? I mean you can sac Thopter Tokens to the Gargedon
Anyway- I dont think the deck is "Bad" but then again -I was the one running Polymorph- LOL
All I know is if this deck becomes a regular on the scene - I will be packing some Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in my sideboard
My Tournament Report Lexington KY PTQ
Wow 2 lands in one turn! SICK
Verses Jund it is a great answer for Thrinax, but spot removal is pretty bad against Jund in general- This is because of the inherent card advantage that the spell in Jund generate. So it's a bad argument to say that Path is bad because it's bad against Jund because all spot removal is.
Path is used in Legacy so that alone shows it's strength. IMHO
I go Sunspring and put in Progenintus; Then Race. The other thing is that I have Thopter Founder which makes blockers and gains me life. Another plus to the Foundry package. Here is my latest list.
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Angelsong
3 Journey to Nowhere
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Esper Charm
4 Polymorph
4 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Spell Pierce
4 Ponder
3 Day of Judgment
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Arcane Sanctum
6 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Gargoyle Castle
2 Progenitus
4 Sunspring Expedition
3 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Angelsong
2 Negate
Dont forget you can target the same spell repeatedly, so they have to pay more for one spell. It also helps you win the "stack war". I am excited!
I went 3-1-1 @ FNM Friday night with the Black Splash. I made some edits after Friday and this is what the list is looking like.
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Angelsong
3 Journey to Nowhere
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Negate
4 Polymorph
4 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Duress
4 Ponder
3 Day of Judgment
2 Liliana Vess
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Arcane Sanctum
6 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Gargoyle Castle
2 Progenitus
4 Sunspring Expedition
4 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Angelsong
Here is a link to my initial write up.
There is a thread on this here.
Here is my latest list.
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Angelsong
3 Journey to Nowhere
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Negate
4 Polymorph
4 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Duress
4 Ponder
3 Day of Judgment
2 Liliana Vess
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Arcane Sanctum
6 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Gargoyle Castle
2 Progenitus
4 Sunspring Expedition
4 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Angelsong
1) Journey to Nowhere Vrs Path To Exile (I am leaning toward Journey)
2) Duress Vrs Silence (I am back and forth on this one)
3) Liliana Vess Vrs Jace (I feel like Jace might be better but Liliana has saved me so many times)
I prefer Ponder over Capsule, I see more cards and I dont want to draw an Iona or two for that matter. It is also less mana intensive.
Adding artifacts will probably make the deck worse and unless I have Foundry the artifacts cant be tokens anyway - If I have foundry that essentially I have a token because I can just sac the foundry to itself.
The original build had Capsule and Tezzeret, but the artifacts in T2 right now totally suck, spells are just better at the moment. IMO
The Borderpost help in the late game when I want to swing with Iona/Progen and be able to sustain the crack back. With a Foundry on board it gives me a Meluko effect with the Borderposts except I also gain a life for each token. Against Mono Red, this helps me stay alive.
Anyway. I can talk all day about this So I wont bore you guys anymore.