I tested a little on my side and... I'm not a fan of Frenzy in the traditionnal RG Belcher (there is a lot of fizzle with it).
I'm still in love with burning wish version where you can still win with
2 Mana + 2 LED
3 Mana + 1 LED
6 Mana
Where with the same configuration you can die to yourself while revealing SW, ESG, SSG, Belcher early or Another Frenzy...
Here is the paintpoint : We hate Frenzy that reveal Frenzy = we hate multiple of them
All I can say is that we could try a list that swap 1 ETW with 1 Frenzy, so you won't have multiples to deal with but I find that it is a "win more" card. If we can cast it we can cast ETW and probably BW and you can fizzle even with 2 spare mana.
I bet it should be better within a list with
- Summoner's Pact to fetch cool green card (ESG can be EXILED even with Frenzy active)
- Shuffle effect / Cycle effect (to change the top card of the library) (again, cycle can be activated with Frenzy active)
- More <= 2CCM rituals (full pyretic ritual + dark & cabal ritual)
- More moxen : they are free and allow to cycle for example a wild cantor grabbed on a Summoner's Pact
But I still would love to have a list written here to play test by myself
Concerning your question on business spells, the right number isn't conditionned to what kind of kills you play so 10 is indeed the good number.
About doing some simulation with frenzy, I should implement the logic behind the spell (which is not that easy to code tbh). Also, I may need to understand the good logic by myself in order to provide some candidate decklist to the software.
I think that
4 Belcher
4 Frenzy
2 ETW / BW should be the good split
But they should be sent with may be 3 or 4 mox this time.
Also, street wraith would be less optimal in this list cause they'll increase the number of fizzle on Frenzy.
@vetkin do you have some decklist that I could play by hand at first ?
I haven't been active for a long time but I have updated the .PDF with 2 lists that include Street Wraith in order to take the probe's ban into account : http://trall3.free.fr/belcher/Belcher.pdf
TLDR :
- Swap probe for SW, still good but ~1 gob less on average
- Keep playing 4 wraith and don't go full ritual !
By the way something interesting came through my head : what if we had 4 probe & 4 wraith instead of mox & P. Ritual... I have made 1 simulation (not written in the doc since it's not usefull anymore) but :
- ***** hand dropped to 17.6 % instead of 18.4 % --> very good
- Belcher win T1 up to 13.2 % instead of 11.8 % (T1 win) + 1.2 % (T2 win) --> faster and overall a little better
- Gob's 31.1 % instead of ~30.5 % (less fizzle hand -> more gob's hand)
- Mean gob : 13.7 +- 3.5 (= the same)
The fact that we increase overall fizzle rate & belcher T1 seems quite fun (but belcher dropped T1 and activated T2 drop to ~0 % in this case cause no mox in list) but well... This list is now illegal.
Please keep in mind that chrome mox are good for :
- Persisting mana sources (= belcher t2 or grinding game)
- Recycle business spell (= OK with 11, so so with 10, and probably almost bad with 8 (or 9) BP)
Which isn't exaclty in the objective of maximizing T1 win / action that's why I still love the 2 moxen in the recommanded list.
Feel free to discuss
By the way if you have specific list to test that aren't close to the one in the doc, I can provide results.
I tested a little on my side and... I'm not a fan of Frenzy in the traditionnal RG Belcher (there is a lot of fizzle with it).
I'm still in love with burning wish version where you can still win with
2 Mana + 2 LED
3 Mana + 1 LED
6 Mana
Where with the same configuration you can die to yourself while revealing SW, ESG, SSG, Belcher early or Another Frenzy...
Here is the paintpoint : We hate Frenzy that reveal Frenzy = we hate multiple of them
All I can say is that we could try a list that swap 1 ETW with 1 Frenzy, so you won't have multiples to deal with but I find that it is a "win more" card. If we can cast it we can cast ETW and probably BW and you can fizzle even with 2 spare mana.
I bet it should be better within a list with
- Summoner's Pact to fetch cool green card (ESG can be EXILED even with Frenzy active)
- Shuffle effect / Cycle effect (to change the top card of the library) (again, cycle can be activated with Frenzy active)
- More <= 2CCM rituals (full pyretic ritual + dark & cabal ritual)
- More moxen : they are free and allow to cycle for example a wild cantor grabbed on a Summoner's Pact
But I still would love to have a list written here to play test by myself
Concerning your question on business spells, the right number isn't conditionned to what kind of kills you play so 10 is indeed the good number.
About doing some simulation with frenzy, I should implement the logic behind the spell (which is not that easy to code tbh). Also, I may need to understand the good logic by myself in order to provide some candidate decklist to the software.
I think that
4 Belcher
4 Frenzy
2 ETW / BW should be the good split
But they should be sent with may be 3 or 4 mox this time.
Also, street wraith would be less optimal in this list cause they'll increase the number of fizzle on Frenzy.
@vetkin do you have some decklist that I could play by hand at first ?
I haven't been active for a long time but I have updated the .PDF with 2 lists that include Street Wraith in order to take the probe's ban into account : http://trall3.free.fr/belcher/Belcher.pdf
TLDR :
- Swap probe for SW, still good but ~1 gob less on average
- Keep playing 4 wraith and don't go full ritual !
By the way something interesting came through my head : what if we had 4 probe & 4 wraith instead of mox & P. Ritual... I have made 1 simulation (not written in the doc since it's not usefull anymore) but :
- ***** hand dropped to 17.6 % instead of 18.4 % --> very good
- Belcher win T1 up to 13.2 % instead of 11.8 % (T1 win) + 1.2 % (T2 win) --> faster and overall a little better
- Gob's 31.1 % instead of ~30.5 % (less fizzle hand -> more gob's hand)
- Mean gob : 13.7 +- 3.5 (= the same)
The fact that we increase overall fizzle rate & belcher T1 seems quite fun (but belcher dropped T1 and activated T2 drop to ~0 % in this case cause no mox in list) but well... This list is now illegal.
Please keep in mind that chrome mox are good for :
- Persisting mana sources (= belcher t2 or grinding game)
- Recycle business spell (= OK with 11, so so with 10, and probably almost bad with 8 (or 9) BP)
Which isn't exaclty in the objective of maximizing T1 win / action that's why I still love the 2 moxen in the recommanded list.
Feel free to discuss
By the way if you have specific list to test that aren't close to the one in the doc, I can provide results.