I guess I was fixated on the rogue nature of my deck. A tuned version of this would likely just be g-tron. I have subed my Silent Arbiters for O stone. I am going to stay focused on fog otherwise even though it weakens the tron effect just because I want to play a home brew more then I want to win I guess. But your suggestions are exactly what I was hopping for i this thread.
The Door to Nothingness was the result of a fnm were I had problems closing out a game within time when an opponent would not concede after I had a lock. So I wanted a tutorable closer.
I have been trying to build a deck aKarn, the Great Creatorround since it was spoiled. Because of the speed of modern I tried to use a prison/pillow fort shell to by the time needed to lock. Those two strategies just don't work well with a Gtron mana base. Then I thought that fog would slot right into G tron.
Isochron Scepter is a hard card to deal with especially if dealing with it is not the seal for the game. You will stock pile other fogs while they burn away their counters and hate.
Silent Arbiter is a beast against aggro. Just the thing I struggle with.
I have looked through every artifact in modern. I really need a pull your a** out of the fire card when you are under pressure and all you can do is drop a Karn. Ensnaring Bridge is not the answer, you don't consistently dump your hand.
I really think ancient stirrings should be in this deck to find lands or your artifacts.
Thanks. It means dropping the Ghostly prisons because that is a tough to make those colors early and consistent, but it might be a bunch faster. I'll try it out.
Thanks. I was thinking about Sen triplets or maybe Uba Mask as well. And Jester's cap against combo decks. I have no real experience with any of these cards.
I had a reasonable successful artifact prison deck I have played for a few months, but now with the new Karn, the Great Creator it seems to have gotten so much better. I am looking for suggestions for the tool belt (sideboard).
Obelisk of Alara provides a finisher that can be tutored. Mana is not a problem because of the lattice.
Weaknesses are predictably control decks.
So i'm asking for suggestions of cards in the sideboard. Silver bullets for different meta game decks. What is the most effective single (artifact) card that can be cast against UW control, tron, dredge. Whatever. It doesn't matter if it is dead 95% of the time because I only need 1 for that 1 in 20.
My most recent version of Gobins Moon uses Hanweir Garrison as well. I have to admit I like it every bit as much as war boss. I realize it does not impact when it hits but its impact thereafter is greater and attacking into a Thalia is nice.
I'm curious why nobody likes Shared animosity. From a damage perspective it is like another creature factory. Do the math and you can see why I like to drop one of these the turn after either Hanweir Garrison, Legion Warboss or Goblin Rabblemaster. Plus it reduces the devastation of sweepers because you don't have to extend as much..
Obviously it is for a more aggressive, aggro build of goblins.
I do also have Hanweir Battlements in my deck and have used the haste fuction a number of times but never once have I melded them.
I liked the idea of Thalia for a couple reasons. First it hoses me in my more traditional build. Thats why I took up this deck in the first place. After getting abused by Bloodmoon I decided to just play the card rather then get frustrated by it. So in a moon deck that relies on creatures it seemed to be a logical choice. Play as many of the hated cards as you can.
Also the W let me try out Oketra the True instead of multiples of other gods.
As to Hazoret. The synergy between it and a bridge is obvious. Not as much so when dumping your hand is not part of the game plan. Still I recognize you really don't have any reactive spells so I get it.
So I went back to testing my earlier Goblin build and ditched the removal for the Crater maker and a focused aggro strategy. I love how it plays but it definitely has different match-ups. In fact almost opposite. I struggled in some match-ups that were un-loseable and smoke them in some match-ups that seemed un-winable.
I have been trying out Goblin Assault as goblin factories #9 and #10. I'm uncertain at this point.
NVM Goblin Assault just does too little when it hits.
I think you may have hit it there. My complaint (or problematic situation might be more accurate) was when faced with mid range decks whose fatties just swallowed up my goblins. Now you can go toe to toe with there pumped up kicks.
Few questions if I might.
How often do the chalices sit in you hand or do you just fire them off set at 1.
Now that there is no advantage to dumping your hand (no bridges) does Hazoret become less appealing to activate.
How tough is it to get and KEEP the devotion necessary for Porphoros with limited red non-creature permanents.
I really like were this deck is heading. It actually suits my play style as well. Aggressive control.
Grab the Reins looks to be a great coup de grace card. I can see sacing a pumped up Goblin rabblemaster jsut as it inevitable dies to a 2/2 chump block.
Wouldn't it be more useful to just pack in snow covered mountains and Skred over massive raid. One would need to have at least 4 goblins on board at 3 lands for it to be better and even then it's 3 vs 1 cmc. I think Skred will come in handy earlier and even mid late game the damage difference is likely not significant. Plus with the tight mana raid would likely be the only spell you cast that turn.
@GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Gotta think on that one.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
Let's see how these Goblin Shoes run. Notice how many 4-ofs are in the list? Consistency aaaaand Explosiveness, me hopes.
I've been mucking with something along these lines for a few days. Here are my takes (your experience may vary).
1. The decks I did poorly against I do much better. Control, combo. Conversely the decks I did great against I do poorly. Hollow one and the like. Humans. Glint steel. They just suck up my goblins.
2. Chalice is set to 0 or 1 or it shuts you down. those are only situationaly useful so I moved the cups to the board. I thought the spots better filled with Goblins.
3. I had gotten rid off sweepers but not spot removal. Skred and Lightning.
4. I tried no removal and found my games played pretty much the same.
5. I felt that Eidolon of the Great Revel hurt me more with this build then in a more traditional build as I was relying on 3 plus cmc in multiples (not just one Chandra or 1 Moon) and the games do not become long stalemates.
6. I found a few different cards to be huge Goblin Piledriver has huge synergy with a boss or master. Warren Instigator on turn 1 was a beast. Goblin King with mountainwalk should have been great. Never was.
Ultimately their creatures were bigger then mine and the ramp only seemed to help so much. I wonder if the deck is better no ramp with good 1 and 2 drop goblins. But then it would just a plain goblin deck.
But this did give me inspiration to make some changes for my artifact free win deck. I was great at creature and mid decks. Surprisingly good against Jund because of all of the Welding jar to save my constructs and Bridges. Decent to good at burn (because of Claws of Gix and Inventors' Fair) Bad at the typical control combo because of the lack of explosiveness. So I made a side board to transform the deck into something explosive. The others bad matchups I have just written off.
Here is the sideboard I have been playing the last 50 games or so.
On amother note why do people seem to prefer Relic of Progenitus over Grafdigger's cage
I guess I was fixated on the rogue nature of my deck. A tuned version of this would likely just be g-tron. I have subed my Silent Arbiters for O stone. I am going to stay focused on fog otherwise even though it weakens the tron effect just because I want to play a home brew more then I want to win I guess. But your suggestions are exactly what I was hopping for i this thread.
The Door to Nothingness was the result of a fnm were I had problems closing out a game within time when an opponent would not concede after I had a lock. So I wanted a tutorable closer.
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Fog
4 Haze of Pollen
4 Isochron Scepter
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Golgari Signet
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Expedition Map
1 Swamp
1 Tendo Ice Bridge4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Forest
//WishBoard//
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Defense Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Silence
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Spellskite
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Spire of Industry
2 Glimmervoid
4 Forest
3 Chromatic Lantern
1 Sphere of the Suns
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Fog
3 Haze of Pollen
4 Assassin's Trophy
4 Isochron Scepter
3 Silent Arbiter
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Door to Nothingness
1 Defense Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Silence
3 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Silent Arbiter
Silent Arbiter is a beast against aggro. Just the thing I struggle with.
I have looked through every artifact in modern. I really need a pull your a** out of the fire card when you are under pressure and all you can do is drop a Karn. Ensnaring Bridge is not the answer, you don't consistently dump your hand.
Thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
I feel like they will pay the price on norns just to get swing the coup de grace.
Silent Arbiter now performs the role of slowing down the aggro that ghostly prison had performed.
Thanks. It means dropping the Ghostly prisons because that is a tough to make those colors early and consistent, but it might be a bunch faster. I'll try it out.
Thanks. I was thinking about Sen triplets or maybe Uba Mask as well. And Jester's cap against combo decks. I have no real experience with any of these cards.
Thran temporal gateway would make all your cards un-counterable.
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge
2 Spellskite
2 Gleaming Barrier
3 Contagion Clasp
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Spire of Industry
2 Glimmervoid
2 Plains
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Buried Ruin
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Mirrodin's Core
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Thran Temporal Gateway
1 Mycosynth Lattice
Obelisk of Alara provides a finisher that can be tutored. Mana is not a problem because of the lattice.
Weaknesses are predictably control decks.
So i'm asking for suggestions of cards in the sideboard. Silver bullets for different meta game decks. What is the most effective single (artifact) card that can be cast against UW control, tron, dredge. Whatever. It doesn't matter if it is dead 95% of the time because I only need 1 for that 1 in 20.
I'm curious why nobody likes Shared animosity. From a damage perspective it is like another creature factory. Do the math and you can see why I like to drop one of these the turn after either Hanweir Garrison, Legion Warboss or Goblin Rabblemaster. Plus it reduces the devastation of sweepers because you don't have to extend as much..
Obviously it is for a more aggressive, aggro build of goblins.
I do also have Hanweir Battlements in my deck and have used the haste fuction a number of times but never once have I melded them.
Also the W let me try out Oketra the True instead of multiples of other gods.
As to Hazoret. The synergy between it and a bridge is obvious. Not as much so when dumping your hand is not part of the game plan. Still I recognize you really don't have any reactive spells so I get it.
So I went back to testing my earlier Goblin build and ditched the removal for the Crater maker and a focused aggro strategy. I love how it plays but it definitely has different match-ups. In fact almost opposite. I struggled in some match-ups that were un-loseable and smoke them in some match-ups that seemed un-winable.
I have been trying out Goblin Assault as goblin factories #9 and #10. I'm uncertain at this point.
NVM Goblin Assault just does too little when it hits.
Few questions if I might.
I really like were this deck is heading. It actually suits my play style as well. Aggressive control.
I wondr if there is any way to squeeze Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Wouldn't it be more useful to just pack in snow covered mountains and Skred over massive raid. One would need to have at least 4 goblins on board at 3 lands for it to be better and even then it's 3 vs 1 cmc. I think Skred will come in handy earlier and even mid late game the damage difference is likely not significant. Plus with the tight mana raid would likely be the only spell you cast that turn.
I've been mucking with something along these lines for a few days. Here are my takes (your experience may vary).
1. The decks I did poorly against I do much better. Control, combo. Conversely the decks I did great against I do poorly. Hollow one and the like. Humans. Glint steel. They just suck up my goblins.
2. Chalice is set to 0 or 1 or it shuts you down. those are only situationaly useful so I moved the cups to the board. I thought the spots better filled with Goblins.
3. I had gotten rid off sweepers but not spot removal. Skred and Lightning.
4. I tried no removal and found my games played pretty much the same.
5. I felt that Eidolon of the Great Revel hurt me more with this build then in a more traditional build as I was relying on 3 plus cmc in multiples (not just one Chandra or 1 Moon) and the games do not become long stalemates.
6. I found a few different cards to be huge Goblin Piledriver has huge synergy with a boss or master. Warren Instigator on turn 1 was a beast. Goblin King with mountainwalk should have been great. Never was.
Ultimately their creatures were bigger then mine and the ramp only seemed to help so much. I wonder if the deck is better no ramp with good 1 and 2 drop goblins. But then it would just a plain goblin deck.
But this did give me inspiration to make some changes for my artifact free win deck. I was great at creature and mid decks. Surprisingly good against Jund because of all of the Welding jar to save my constructs and Bridges. Decent to good at burn (because of Claws of Gix and Inventors' Fair) Bad at the typical control combo because of the lack of explosiveness. So I made a side board to transform the deck into something explosive. The others bad matchups I have just written off.
Here is the sideboard I have been playing the last 50 games or so.
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Legion Warboss
2 Boil
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
I just transform the deck into a goblin deck when the Bloodmoon or Bridges or sweepers come out.