2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on [IKO] Regal Leosaur— PleasantKenobi preview
    Quote from Blair Phoenix »
    Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »


    I think you both have a point.

    On the one hand, elves and goblins all the time would be (and was) boring. It's important to mix things up a bit. Cat dinosaurs do make sense in the context of this plane, but in general just stapling together two types of creatures isn't going to resonate as much as a more organically conceived creature type. There's a difference between coming up with a type of creature that has, say, feline and dinosaur traits and calling it "X," versus just typing it as cat and dinosaur. The latter just speaks to mutated fusions, which is what Ikoria is and was always going to be (and might not be everyone's cup of tea on that basis). But when the typing is "X," the combination becomes a thing in itself, and the focus is now on "X" and not X's components. All creations are just a synthesis of components which we've seen before, which differ only in their composition. But a creation is more complete and novel as its own thing when it clicks mentally as "X" and not merely "cat + dinosaur," that is, when its identity is more than the sum of its parts. Overall, settings will resonate more when creatures are typed as new things than mashing together old types. But sometimes, as in Ikoria, the mashing together is thematically appropriate.
    As I replied to the other person, mechanically, using preexisting creature types and mashing them together, can be more interesting than just adding a new one. The addition of naga as a creature type was not worth it when they could have just been made snakes and been more mechanically relevant with more cards.


    That isn’t to say new creature types shouldn’t be made, I just think they need to be significantly different from anything else to really be worth it.


    I personally think Naga is worth it. You lose out on some Snake tribal synergy, oh well. "Snake" is too general if it includes Naga. There is an issue with consistency. For example, Rakshasas were typed as "Cat Demon" in the same context of Tarkir block. If someone potentially could have "Naga" but not "Snake" as their favorite creature type, then it's worth it.

    My rule of thumb is this: if it's a distinct type of fantasy creature, give it its own card type. Otherwise, pre-existing types with tribal synergy are preferable. Or if it's a MtG-specific fantasy creature where there's no real-world lore to resonate with, mundane creature types are also fine in that case.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO] Regal Leosaur— PleasantKenobi preview
    Quote from Blair Phoenix »
    Quote from user-11102155 »
    after i saw this card and this artwork i thought "what happened to magic?"
    i am usually not that kind of guy, being all nostalgic, but to me making a cat dinosaur feels so lazy and uncreative, as if wizards isnt even trying anymore.
    just randomly smash creature types together and all the old lore with goblins, elves and angels doesnt matter anymore. no, nowadays we get angel,horror,eldrazi,warlock, single mom creature types.

    its not that i cry about "in the past everything was better", it is just that i feel this is lazy work. cant really discripe it, but this is making me lose interest in magic. in the past cards were designed clear and distinctive. (at least to me). now they print out every trash they can imagine and want us to be hyped and pay over the top prices for colored paper. i feel more like "this aitn worth it anymore", which is sad, cause i actually really like the game.

    ... what one trash card can "trigger"
    I would argue it takes more creativity to make up something like cat dinosaurs than using tired old fantasy tropes such as goblins, elves and angels.


    I think you both have a point.

    On the one hand, elves and goblins all the time would be (and was) boring. It's important to mix things up a bit. Cat dinosaurs do make sense in the context of this plane, but in general just stapling together two types of creatures isn't going to resonate as much as a more organically conceived creature type. There's a difference between coming up with a type of creature that has, say, feline and dinosaur traits and calling it "X," versus just typing it as cat and dinosaur. The latter just speaks to mutated fusions, which is what Ikoria is and was always going to be (and might not be everyone's cup of tea on that basis). But when the typing is "X," the combination becomes a thing in itself, and the focus is now on "X" and not X's components. All creations are just a synthesis of components which we've seen before, which differ only in their composition. But a creation is more complete and novel as its own thing when it clicks mentally as "X" and not merely "cat + dinosaur," that is, when its identity is more than the sum of its parts. Overall, settings will resonate more when creatures are typed as new things than mashing together old types. But sometimes, as in Ikoria, the mashing together is thematically appropriate.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO] Splendid Ultimatum— 社築 preview
    The biggest crime of this card is how boring it is. Jeskai is probably the hardest wedge to design for, but still. I feel very let down by this card and they need to spend some time thinking about how to explore this wedge's identity more.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO] Zirda, the Dawnwaker— the last Ikoria product page preview
    We're that much closer to my wish list item of color shifting training grounds to red. This pleases me.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO and C20] Zenith flare
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Hmmm, could it not just have been "number of instants" at that price tag? Would definitely have been a great tool for Sunforger that way.


    This card makes you work really hard just to get a Warleader's Helix. They could have tacked cycling onto it as well at least.

    I do like that they seem to be making cycling a bit of a theme for RW and printing unprecedentedly cheap cycling costs for these colors at common.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO] Joyous Skybonder— Tomohappy preview
    Quote from ryu9nokaze »
    Flavor text is something like “She was born unable to walk, but she could fly through Elda (?)” (not sure about if Elda is place or people)


    It's the rite of bonding to the monsters. Eldha, I think.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C20] Cartographer's Hawk— Sheldon Menery preview
    Quote from Gutterstorm »

    The comparison to Rampant Growth that people keep making is really inaccurate to me. Growth you cast it and immediately get the land in play. This you have to cast it, hope it sticks a round of the table, hope it can get through And then you get the land into play. And then you have to use up some of that mana to continue doing it. And let’s not forget that Rampant Growth isn’t a dead card if you happened to win the dice roll. I think this is an easy cut when improving the precons and probably shouldn’t get added to other decks.


    Say it louder for the people in the back, apparently.

    A hasteless creature that has to connect combat damage is not a valid comparison to an instant with the same effect. The creature is much slower and universally easier to stop in every color than the instant.

    Now, it could still be the case that a drawback of some kind is still appropriate for this cost and effect in white. Maybe "Return it to your hand unless you discard a card or pay 1W." But the drawback as printed is going to push deckbuilding to more competitive options.

    I think they should focus on the Smothering Tithe design for White ramp. Have it generate artifact token mana rocks at an efficient rate so that it gets the benefit of the ramp but more vulnerability to removal and no deck thinning. That way Green gets to stay king of ramp while White gets ramp that's at least playable if not as much value as options in Green.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [C20] Cartographer's Hawk— Sheldon Menery preview
    This card is bad, but it represents the floor of what they're allowing White to do with land ramp now. It can only go up from here.

    I guess the reason it returns to your hand is like a reference to falconing? There's some flavor to it but making the ramp conditional on your opponent's board state is already enough of a drawback, it doesn't need more piled on.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [IKO] Rielle, the Everwise
    Flavor text referencing Nietzsche is pretty cool.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Quote from Mishotem »
    Quote from Mishotem »


    I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.


    You're giving Weissman way too much credit. Gay Ral was mostly from Django Wexler, and the Chandra-Nissa pairing had enough build-up in previous stories that only a complete idiot would miss it and not deliver.


    I stand corrected on Gay Ral, but it doesn't actually matter who is responsible for it, it was there. That goes against the accusations of lack of inclusion, which is the point.

    As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.


    So you're saying as long as token representation is offered up, the inclusion quota is met and everyone should be happy?

    Quite a lot of people in this forum have been complaining about tokenism from the right, that just checking off boxes doesn't make for compelling characters. And while that's obviously not a reason to not make queer characters (c'mon, duh), it sounds like your own expectations are just checking off boxes.

    I don't think "lack of inclusion" is the point exactly in this specific case. It's the deliberate erasure of queer themes in a character. Ral being gay doesn't compensate for Chandra being portrayed as "going through a phase." It might not be something that particularly upsets you, most likely because it does not personally affect you in any way, but that doesn't mean someone else who is bothered by it is overreacting. It also doesn't mean that they're *not* overreacting depending on how they choose to express their feelings. But you're trying to invalidate the feelings themselves which is seriously uncool.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Quote from 5colors »
    Figured to put this here since this was where most of the topic had been talked about. We got our answer for no Theros story, Maro reached out to the franchise team and here is what we got;
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/odds-ends-theros-beyond-death-2020-01-27

    "What you’re seeing is Magic’s Franchise team testing and learning. Starting with Dominaria fiction we increased our investment and ambition in how we want to delivery great story to our fans. What if we were able to build a talent pool of authors that mirrored our talent pool of illustrators? What new delivery channels could we use to expand the reach of our fiction?

    "Since Dominaria, you’ve seen us expand our author pool, enter into new licensed partnerships for comics and novels, and vary both the number of stories released and the length of those stories. We want to best understand the tone that works for our audience as well as the specific content that resonates most successfully in any given narrative expression (short form vs. comics vs. long form, for example). To do that we have to create opportunities to test and learn.

    "With Wildered Quest, we released our first new-era ePub through Penguin Random House. It was more successful than anticipated and was well received. The blowback from Forsaken illuminated that we needed a better validation strategy not only for issues of representation, but for narrative content in general; so we made the hard call to delay Theros Beyond Death fiction until we could create a new vetting process. That unfortunately meant that we would miss our intended release window. We did our best to leverage our preview plans and marketing support to deliver the broad strokes of the story so people weren’t left completely in the lurch, but we know you are disappointed and we are too. We’re doing everything we can to ensure this will be a one-time cost for a smoother future.

    "With Ikoria we will return to an ePub strategy, and we will also find the correct time and channel to release the Theros Beyond Death fiction. Maybe it will be part of an anthology, or direct to Audible, or as a graphic novel.

    "Magic fandom deserves a publishing program as robust and enjoyable as the TCG, and Magic’s Franchise Team is committed to delivering exactly that. In the meantime, don’t be dismayed when you see us try new things. Don’t be shy in telling us when something doesn’t work (imagine a big smiley face emoji when I say that historically this hasn’t been an issue), but, more importantly, make sure you tell us what you love. That’s what we want to deliver."

    -Jeremy Jarvis


    So yeah they realized they been rushing out the story without enough editing and quality control. Positive is they do want to release the Theros 2 story at some point so while I'm saying this as excuse for it, glad we will see it hopefully in some form.


    I'm quite satisfied with this response. Kudos to Jarvis.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ikoria Lair of Behemoths promotional art from THB boosters
    Quote from Ritokure »
    Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »
    Can you expand your thoughts on the other things white should be able to do? After red's recent makeover it seems like it's white's turn again.
    Card selection is the big one. We already have the precedent of White getting card selection, but it's nowhere near as good nor frequent as Green's and, honestly, Green doesn't needs it anymore, it already has so many ways to get raw card advantage, not only in drawing but also mass Regrowth effects, and it has both searching for lands and creatures on its color pie too. Cards like Relentless Pursuit used to be playable but are just going unnoticed nowadays simply because Green just has too many better options, and would be great tools for White. Hell, I'd even argue Once Upon a Time would be a-ok for White, at least in Standard, as it's the color that's supposed to be about strong early-game starts, instead of Green that mainly just used it to ensure the 1 mana ramp into broken 3 drop every game.


    Mm, it also fits with white's "long term planning" theme and ties nicely to blue.

    Other ones I could see WotC expanding upon is Stifle effects (This is a secondary Green ability apparently? WHY? And blue doesn't need it that much either, it usually prefers regular counter magic)


    100% agree. Seems like it was based on some pretty old cards, but I've long thought the effect feels more white.

    Blood Moon and land taxing effects (WotC's whole sthick about White is being able to answer everything, but now that Armageddon effects never get printed anymore, it can't)


    I tend to agree, although even red doesn't get to do much against lands these days. I say they should declare open season on nonbasics, then push duals designed to work best with two and three color decks along with the new hate.

    expanding the "permanent matters" theme (it already cares a lot about creatures, sometimes enchantments and artifacts depending on the block, why not just go full "permanents matters" just like Green is "creatures matters" and Blue "spells matters"? Somethiing like ascend, permanently integrated into White's color pie)


    I think I see this as a specifically green-white mechanic for a color pair which is in need of a distinct identity.

    and cost reduction effects.


    I actually want this moved out of blue and into red. Let blue and white stall the board until they can cast their goodies. But there are a few ways of designing such effects for white that I would be on board for.

    More noncreature reanimation would be nice too.


    Yep, and efficient reanimation that grabs a bunch of weenies for card advantage.

    Additional items on my wish list: more frequent damage redirection (and some spell redirection when it's aimed at you and your stuff, particularly when paired with red or blue), more tax-based counters, more balance or land tax-conditioned effects, white as #1 color for granting hexproof (blue/green primary for inherent hexproof), more anti-wrath tech, big splashy angel bombs that do something to help stall while in your hand, and exploring more ways of bringing card advantage and ramp to the color (albeit themed around promoting small creatures, e.g., "Add W, spend this mana only to cast noncreature spells or creature spells with converted mana cost 3 or less").
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ikoria Lair of Behemoths promotional art from THB boosters
    Quote from Ritokure »
    Quote from Xcric »
    i don't doubt that at all, though i do hope white gets efficient removal to deal with those threats. efficiency being key. it'llmost likely be something stupid like 4W, exile target creature with a power greater than 5 or something that's just trash like that.
    White has its problems but removal is not one of them. If we give White more efficient removal, all that's going to do is make Esper or Azorius Control better and White will still be crap. What White needs is more tools to do things other than play a bunch of weenies, gain life and proceed to scoop phase as soon as an opponent draws a wrath.


    Can you expand your thoughts on the other things white should be able to do? After red's recent makeover it seems like it's white's turn again.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Quote from buffntuff »
    Perhaps it's the Netflix show, the MMORPG, and all of the other resources that the brand is focusing on that's siphoning creative from the actual TCG. I've been playing MTG since pretty much the beginning and the lore was still fun back when it was vague and we had to fill in the gaps, yet through the decades WotC has ratcheted up the Vorthos component of MTG such that they have the capability for things such as an MMORPG and a Netflix series, so maybe this is just a natural progression. Who knows, we may get story lines and sets of cards that are based on the show or the video games if they are well received enough.


    I actually wouldn't be shocked if they're planning to get real brand integrate-y with either the mmo or the netflix show, where the story now has to match up to whatever's going on in those. Maybe what we're seeing now is more clearing house to get some characters up and ready for whatever's written for those. Garruk is back, liliana is kinda redeemed, elspeth is back. Beefing up the cast a lil.

    Also as a total aside, wild to watch tiro (of meletis) have gone from absolutely livid and irrationally angry about this set before it was previewed to raving about it in effortposts now the whole thing has dropped. There's a lesson there, but I'm not gonna be the one to figure out what it is.


    The key word there is "irrational."

    Using the show and the mmo as media for the overall narrative is probably a good move, as they're likely to be more accessible and thus expand the audience. I think one of the difficulties they've been having is trying to coordinate the stories with block releases a little too much. Of course that has to do with wanting to push sales of the new product, so it makes sense on paper that every set would have its story published at the same time, but I think there's a practical issue of getting reasonably high quality content written under those conditions. It would be better if they had several ongoing stories being printed that would eventually "catch up" and incorporate new settings while maintaining the audience's investment with the overall set of characters and settings. Comics and story articles might be sufficient to push new sets upon release.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Theros Beyond Death the rest of the cards and story
    Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »

    Yet if the quality of the overall franchise declines, its popularity probably will eventually follow. Now that the game is bigger than any previous point, it is the time to expand on what makes it unique rather than to regress to an earlier stage when the game was small and new.


    Wizards will probably cost cut on the story until product sales revenue slips notably. It's always this way with companies: they will seek to save money to make more profit, so they will cut in areas until the product quality gets bad enough for visible complaints and sales loss. I just don't think Wizards is at that point yet.

    Alternatively, as Tiro and MoonKnightLite pointed out, much of the creative focus has moved to other properties, basically putting the card game on cruise control. As long as they print competitive cards and enticing thematic sets, Wizards can probably coast on a light narrative for a while. As I said, Wizards will probably focus stories on new sets, not returning ones, to avoid consecutive "synopsis only" sets.


    And the problem with that is that returning sets is where story arcs can be developed. When the story only gets brought up with a new setting, people get fatigued with the same rehash of "oh no the world is on fire, but protagonist saves it!" It's important to get the audience invested in established characters and not just planeswalkers who are mostly written as color caricatures at this point.

    I also believe that as consumers how we choose to respond can affect the tipping point where business decisions become unprofitable.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.