MTG Salvation

I think you are projecting too much. The "MARVEL ENDGAME Trope" was alive BEFORE it was made obnoxious by MCU. You could retroactively say The Nine Titans was an Endgame. Chill. It's a not-enfranchised trope. You don't need to "brand it" to fabricate a reason why you don't like it, you simply don't like it and it's okay.

Did anyone catch the final image of the redesign of Urabrask?

Quote from ilovesaprolings »

Damn i hope Jace will die for good but it will never happen. Too many sensitive crybabies, you can even see that from here.

Wow, they had to introduce Toxic in the set when there is already SO MUCH around here.

He was interested in its use, yes, not linked to it though. He has wispered to her since the beginning and will keep on doing that until she finds him (probably her only interest left)...

I don't know anything about Mary Sues or any stereotypes of those kind, just want to make 2 points:
1. She escaped her all life from the sin she committed, she was ashamed, she felt responsible, and when you give yourself the mask of the sinner and of the butcher, the easiest way to to suffocate your inner turmoil is becoming your mask. Because she was not brave enough to get back home and battle herself, win her own weaknesses and confront her sin. So she run, she acquired power and when it all went down the Mending, what was of her was a prideful husk that hid fairly well the grudge for herself. Then the chain veil appeared: a possible tool to save it all, to free herself and master Death itself. She hoped to abuse it, to get stronger, and even more, to get brave enough to confront everything she left behind. She freed her brother, but did not felt relieved, for she just killed him two times
2. On Ravnica we have her final step. Black means surviving and winning doing that, what she is doing is the opposite: shine through her self sacrifice. She was the woman of the shortcut, because she always used them: killed the brother, run away; getting old, demonic pact; feeling love, crush her emotions... Everything was a shortcut for her, leading to that bridge on Ravnica, enslaved by a nearly omnipotent dragon, butchering everything, and she knows no one deserves that end, maybe she wore the mask of the killer, but she still knows a sin when she sees one. She had to decide for her survival, the easy shortcut, she would just look everyone get slayed, and then keep on her life suppressing her emotions and serving the big bad guy who in the end wouldn't even need her anymore as a God. It was really an easy choice for Black, survival afterall is the aim, but the pride? She would lose it, but it wouldn't be the first time a black character lose pride. All of the shortcuts she took had the consequences of making her next choice bigger at every step, and on that bridged it's all of her life at the stake: the chain veil, the power and her immortality, all the years she spent searching for it, all the pacts she did, everything she lost and everytime she fell harder for the aim of power. But in the end it doesn't even matter. She looks at the kids dying, she looks at herself, what has become of her, she is a tool to repeat her sins. She knows what's at stake, and she refuses the prize. She decides to confront Bolas, she totally negates herself, her dying could not bring herself peace: she knows souls are eternal, she knows she could be one of those ghost mourning in pain forever, or heaven knows what Bolas could do with her soul... And still she thinks, no more. She is enraged, yes, she might be rushed, but she is not stupid, she knows what she is doing: imagine burning of your own accord, but losing behind decades of searching, decades of plotting to regain power. She throws it all and burns, not thinking of her, because otherwise she would have not chosen that path. She spent her whole life escaping from everything, gaining power, and in the end she finally confronts her sins. She is taking responsibility. I find she really is evolving. In a unexpected way, in even a non-black way, but she is really on fire.

TL/DR: she fine, she good.
P.S.:Probably an overstating, redundant review on a character which really isn't that deep? But I think this is a self sacrifice that has nothing to do with pride or ego, saving other lives does not cancel sins, and dying doing that will not make you feel better, it will just physically destroy you, but this is really subjective to me and might be wrong.

Quote from Xeruh »

Quote from Maritrakul - Swallower of Lore »

Oh my, I MAY have found the leaks... But if it's all true, it's all ridiculous.

Seemed pretty sensible to me.

Mind you, I'm not against this all... I just find difficult to wrap my mind around these specific things...

About numbers in the dreadhorde:
Before the reboot of Amonkhet, Hoazoret's trial probably did not kill the worthy... Because the last words Bolas says to Hazoret (while she was trying to protect the children before the reboot) were something like "You will kill with your spear the children you are now trying to protect"
Edit: here it is...

Quote from https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/hour-revelation-2017-06-07 »

The two gods set the babes in a small alcove within the chamber and stood side by side at the entrance to the sacred mausoleum. Hazoret readied her spear. Oketra drew her bow.

"The children of Naktamun will not die at the hands of a beast!" Hazoret cried.

"The children of Naktamun will die at the end of your spear," replied the dragon.

This is an extremely interesting topic, but I'd put myself more on the side of the Eternals. Yes, legions, armies on ravnica have battled pretty much everything
Crazy experiments? Done
Crazy maniacs? Done
Demons? Done
Semideities? Done
Zombies? Done
Plant Zombies? Done
but Aliens? Not much
Because this is essentially an ALIEN invasion. These, as far as generic the parameter of HUMAN goes, are not Ravnica Humans, different biology probably...
And obviously as you all said, high special training, since the youngest age, they know how to battle alone and how to battle in team, they are versed in many kinds of magic: if the eternals were not covered in lazotep, they would have been better than the highest grade lich roaming the city, but these are even worse.

1. They are covered in some fricking blue metal. It's a WHOLE-body armor, (so basically more armored than Ravnicans);
2. They have steeds too, you can see chariots in some images (they have vehicles too, animals to use);
3. They have angels, ammit, demons, dragons, hippos, crocodiles, avians, cats, jackals (as variegated as Ravnicans)
4. They are NOT normal zombies because they can use past experience AND magic powers (basically "hard to kill" high trained soldiers);
5. They can organize, there are images in which they are seen walking in formations (highly organized);
6. They strategize, Liliana can't give fine strategy to them all, she can just give orders, then it's all on their ability to strategize;
7. They have alien strategies, they don't battle in patterns Ravnicans know or can predict (they are unknown and are terrifying).
8. You might say "so are Ravnicans strategies", yeah but Ravnicans can die while Eternals needs probably to be chipped in fine cubes to be rendered REALLY inoffensive, so...

The only things Ravnicans has that the Dreadhorde, supposedly, does not are:

1. Ideally the numbers(ideally, because if there are A LOT of not trained-to-battle citizens in the war, that means trained forces were not enough)
2. Innovative technology (well kind of)
3. They know the game table, it's their territory... (yes AND no, the world of Ravnica was accurately watched by his spies for quite some time: the terrain should have little to no secret for Bolas and consequently for the Eternals and Liliana)

For these reasons I see, in a scenario of "realistic" expectations with outcomes not dictated by the needs of any narrative arc, the Dreadhorde win on Ravnica.
But obviously the end of this war is ALL about the needs of the plot. Even only reading the flavour text of Makeshift Battalion you understand the ammount of "power of love" they are going to throw in...

The Gods to be transformed in eternal should have now an extremely different "biology", to be walking around on a different plane while they should be tied to the leylines of the plane generating them is difficult to achieve without having them morphed in a way extremely different from what Bolas did with the 3 past-missing Gods or Nissa with Kefnet, meaning they might not be comprised of leylines anymore. MIGHT, then wiz has all the wiggle space to do some wibbly wobbly poop.

Also am I the only one surprised by the fact the eternals are just dead organic matter encased in lazotep? I thought the transformation in eternals would just substitute every organic matter with lazotep alloy, not just covering them... So how is the planar bridge able to evaporate a plant in the vase, but not a dead corpse in Lazotep? So actually ANYONE, EVEN ALIVE can travel through Tezz' portal if they have a total body lazotep armor... I understand this does not change anything or undermine any of Bolas design or Wizz planification, I'm just surprised.

On the timetravel matter: yes, but the examples quoted are of ONE PERSON TRAVELING THROUGH TIME (being Sarkhan or Karn), what people are suggesting now is that TIME GEST UNRAVELED BACK IN THE ENTIRE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM by one mage. Has this kind of time manipulation got any precedent in Magic history?

It could still be possible it was Lazav (in stealth mode) who took the child from the minotaur, put the child on the floor and gave him a fruit (in a nurturing mood). By the way I LOVED the image of Lazav on a dusty armchair cradling the baby on his lap. Nanny Lazav

Bolas didn't try to get just some guilds... While some guilds were a lot more important for his Masterplan, he was trying to get EVERY guild. MaRo said EVERY guild has an intern turmoil about going with Bolas or against: so he didn't really choose to take some of the guilds, apart from those he really needed (which might be just the Izzet, Golgari and Azorius), he wanted them all. It is probably easier to cast a ritual to make a god of yourself, if every person on the planet is on your side.

Fblthp is compleately lost.

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Could This be Ulamog younger?

It's Ulamog in the 80s when he still had a mullet and couldn't grow a beard yet.

There's so much hate on this thread when the set looks amazing so far? I wish they had put Ragavan in another frame because that one is for artifacts, and put Ballista in the main set, but so much of this is just wild

For the first time, Urabrask has the best praetor art of the bunch. I'm in love with this new design; he seems to have upgraded since returning from New Capenna.

I like Norn's art, but it's a little bit understated. It hits the elegant and regal notes, but I was also hoping for something visceral and hard-hitting like her original art, which still has never been surpassed.

Sheoldred's art is disgusting. I approve.

Seems like a pretty good Finale if you catch my drift.

Maro just had to get a doubling spell into this set, didn't he?

I swear I don’t mean for Lord Windgrace to look like a Superfriends deck.

Those of you who have seen some of my other posts know that I get a bit wordy. But whatevs, I will word it up again.

Stakes. Stakes, man.

One thing I really, really liked about Star Wars: Rogue One was the concept of ‘stakes.’ The fate of the universe hinges on this one team pulling off the impossible. And as they start proving successful, we’re feeling good, until, uh oh, one of them dies. Okay, well, that’s just one. And then another main character dies. And then another. And another. Suddenly, you realize this is *for real*. The Good Guys have gone up against the Bad Guys, and you begin to realize there’s a chance the Good Guys don’t make it out. Every moment, every death, has gravitas now, even though we’ve only just met them. Now we see just how powerful and dangerous the Empire is. Now we see why the galaxy is right to fear them. So much death and loss, and then, at the very end . . . Hope.

I can’t remember another movie like that. Maybe the original Magnificent Seven, with Brenner? In LOTR, none of the major characters really died apart from Theoden and Boromir.

Let’s look at the Yawgmoth/Urza storyline, now. Like Bolas, Yawgmoth plotted for millenia. Already a god of one plane, he wanted to finally conquer Dominaria, too. In The Thran, many people perish, including a planeswalker, Dyfed, and the woman who built the shining star for the Thran Empire, Rebbec. Then thousands of years later Yawgmoth plays Mishra against Urza, leading to a devastating war that sees the loss of sons, of friends, and brothers. Then Urza plots against Yawgmoth, and creates the Legacy and the human counterpart, which also involves years of hardship.

Of the original Weatherlight crew, we have: Rofellos, who died before Tempest; Crovax, who turned from friend to evil, dangerous foe; Mirri, who died to save the man she loved on Rath, who she knew would never love her back; Tahngarth, who was tortured and disfigured by Volrath, before saving his people and being seen as a hero; Hanna, who Gerrard Capashen loved, who died horribly from Phyrexian plague during the Invasion; Orim, the healer who saw her friends suffer and die around her; Ertai, who was abandoned and turned to evil on Rath, before being killed by Squee; Squee, who was constantly killed over and over again for Crovax’s amusement; Starke, who betrayed and then was blinded, and killed on Mercadia; Karn, who was forced to kill as a pacifist, who saw so much time pass and was made to forget it, and who ‘died’ to end Yawgmoth; Sisay, who was tasked with the Legacy and struggled her whole life to do her duty; and Gerrard Capashen, whose whole life was suffering, who lost his family, his friends, his love, and gave his life to finally defeat Yawgmoth.

Then we have the Nine Titans who attacked Phyrexia itself: Urza, Lord Windgrace, Tevesh Szat, Taysir, Commodore Guff, Kristina of the Woods, Daria, Freyalise, and Bo Levar.

For years we were introduced to these characters. Many of us who played at the time really became attached to specific characters (in my case, Gerrard Capashen and Karn). The stories drove the sets, and the sets drove the stories.

Going into the Invasion, we had 10 Weatherlight ‘crew’ (including Multani, excluding Starke, Mirri, and Rofellos who had already died) still alive, and all nine of the Nine Titans. These were named characters, with more-or-less fleshed out backgrounds.

How many were left by the end of Apocalypse? 6 out of 10 ‘Weatherlight crew’ (Crovax, Hanna, Ertai, and Gerrard all died), and 2 out of 9 of the Nine Titans (Bo Levar, Guff, Szat, Taysir, Kristina, Daria, and Urza all died).

Out of 19 named, well-known characters, only ***8*** survive the events of Invasion block, survive the death of Yawgmoth. That’s only three sets.

Why? Because it was the culmination of the Yawgmoth/Legacy story. It was an Ending. It was the dividing line between what happened before and what would happen after. It’s the ending cutscene of a video game. For the story to have gravitas, for the Ineffable Yawgmoth to be seen as the absolute danger and evil that he was, we had to have *stakes*. If only one Weatherlight crew member died (Gerrard) and only two of the Titans died, well, what did we ever have to worry about? What was all the commotion about? Was the Empire really so scary, if no one died to bring it down in Rogue One?

We’re not looking at thrown-away deaths. These deaths served a story purpose, more than one, and it made sense because their deaths made their lives, and the story, matter.

So when I see 36 planeswalker cards for War of the Spark, when I see card art of sparks flying all over the place, when I see an army designed for the sole purpose of killing walkers and extracting their sparks, I’m expecting something a little more than three walkers, one of which we never really got to see in a regular set, losing their lives. These are mortals after all, right? And Gideon didn’t die due to desparking, as far as I know. So only two named walkers were desparked and killed?

I’m not taking a shot at people’s preferred planeswalkers, but: Isn’t Nissa’s story about wrapped up, just as Gideon’s was? Weren’t we all ready for Jaya to kick the bucket? (I haven’t read the novel spoilers, so I don’t know if this happens) What about Ajani? His life seems to have been geared to stopping Bolas. Why is he still around? Out of the five walkers who led guilds for Bolas, only one, Domri, is betrayed and killed? What about Dovin and Kaya, who we were told were only introduced earlier so that they could be in this set, and thus serve no other purpose? What is Kiora even doing anywhere these days? Vraska’s whole life was to lead her friends in Golgari; what is she going to do now?

And why introduce all these tertiary walkers with all the uncommon variations, when we have never heard of them before, if not to have them lose their lives to show walkers being killed?

The climax of Urza and Yawgmoth resulted in two broken planes, uncountable dead, and only 8 of 19 main characters being alive. The climax of Bolas and the Gatewatch results in . . . 33 of 36 named walkers surviving, one purposeless plane (Amonkhet), and one traumatized plane (Ravnica).

This was the grand climax of Bolas we were being ginned up for, for years? This is the modern-day equivalent of Yawgmoth’s defeat? As others have pointed out, what enemy could possibly compare to the Eldrazi and Bolas, in which only one Gatewatch member died against three planar threats? What enemy could possibly be as interesting and devastating as plane-destroying creatures and a god-dragon? I'm not bloodthirsty, I just want to be made to feel that there are actual stakes in Magic these days.

I’ll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Quote from Wraithe »

Quote from Perkunas687 »

So Maro said the Eternals kill when they despark someone. We have a 'Despark' card with two big Eternals apparently desparking 'someone,' but that someone appears later on a card in a different area.

I hope this is cleared up at some point.

Yeah. But there's kind of a major exception here. This is literally the person who created the very eternals and their lethal spark removal. We know from other spark removals, that normally it doesn't appear that removing a spark specifically kills (see: Teferi and Azor). But we have it stated that canon, eternals do kill when they remove a spark.

What is the one being in the entire Multiverse who might very well not die from the magic they implanted into these lazotep-coated zombies that turn spark harvesting into a lethal endeavor?

I would say the person who put the magic there in the first place is the single most logical being to be immune to that particular negative, and therefore Bolas, and Bolas alone surviving having an eternal harvesting his spark makes perfect sense.

Um..screw the I dont DIE if an eternal takes my spark magic.....how about I (Bolas) make them so if they touch me I dont get desparked. Duh.. but thats logical, so is alot of things that Bolas should have done but alas...we must make him basically incompetent at some point (even though hes been planning this for decades) Im sorry some want to excuse it but it just rings hollow. Yes I know he had to be defeated but these circumstances they used are just to convenient. It could have been an actual battle but in the end it seems they're answer was "well he was distracted for a second. Its lame

And apparently Niv Mizzet was struck down by Bolas

And now he's syphoning he Elder Spell to be reborn

Story Holes are great