By the way, maybe important Thing to notice about Pelt Collector: It is worded in a way that it doesn't "evolve" out of bigger Toughness (Experiment One does this). So, for example if we put we put a Rancor on Collector, it's a bit harder to evolve it up.
Not the end of the world, but might matter sometimes.
Yeh, I gotta think it replaces E1 more than goes alongside it... because running 8 evolvy things that enter the battlefield as 1/1 ... don't trigger off each other. Which has gotta be a problem.
Yes, this seems like an issue. Maybe an amount of ~6 evolvers is correct, so we have one in the opening hand guaranteed?
I think the most interesting question in testing will be, what is more useful, the double Evolve + potential Trample, or Regeneration.
That looks really powerful. Especially evolving out of dying creatures seems great. I don't think Trample will happen that often, if I remember how often Ex1 gets removed. But if it happens, thats even better.
Big question: Addition or replacement for Experiment One?
calonian dont block mantis and human is maybe the best deck and everywhere now. In this meta it is gold to be a Bad match up for humans
I wouldn't think the inclusion of Harpooner makes us a bad matchup for Humans.
I agree that Reach on the Avatar is a slight problem for Humans, but that is also because it grows by itself into a 4/3 or larger, Harpooner doesn't. Mantis Rider often attacks with Exalted Trigger(s) or carries +1/+1 Counters from Lieutenant, so I guess Harpooner will often be a chump blocker.
Further, a 3/2 with one less Devotion might make the deck weaker against other strategies, were Reach is not a Factor. In this case, it dies to more removal than Tusker - Brutality, K-Command, Snap-Block, Goblin Guide, etc.
And please don't get me wrong, I would actually like this Card to be good in Stompy, but so far I see more Cons than Pros. The only real upside is it being a Plummet for Mantis Rider or Freebooter.
I can't think of many situations where this is better than Plummet, Prey Upon or Avatar of the Resolute. I guess it can be some kind of versatile, but it's only really worth the effort if it kills a creature without dying itself.
That would be the case against Ornithopter, Vault Skirge, Souls or Thopter Tokens and maybe Kitesail Freebooter - assumed, there are no +1/+1 Counters one them.
Without the removal, it is just strictly worse than Avatar, quite similar to Garruk's Companion. I prefer playing Kalonian Tusker, because the 3 Toughness can be really important, and the Harpooner (thats what the Name means - native German here ) has no potential to grow by itself.
In a nutshell: Interesting Card, but i wouldn't think it's worth adding.
Note that flasbacking something from the grave will not trigger Pyro unless you have another card with the same name in the grave too.
Mission Brieving seems like something to test though!
Good hint - I hope the included Surveil will help with that. Cause, if you surveil a second copy of a card into the graveyard and then flashback it, Ascension triggers, right?
Just made some proxies to test the Card.
I am not sure about Snapcaster in the list - although BGx might see a raise in Meta-%. Ooze is the concern here, and TiTi gets killed by the deck anyways. So my hope is, that Mission Briefing will make the Matchup slightly more favourable.
Has anyone tested maindeck counterspells like Spell Pierce? I run a playset of Izzet Charm, which is quite neat, also because of its flexibility.
I run 4 morpohse, 4 visions, 4 opt, 4 sleight and 4 thought scour. I'm thinking either scour or sleight could be cut.. Visions & morphose are our best cantrips. Opt is close to an instant speed sleight of hand. Scour is the weakest cantrip but it has the most synergy with mission briefing & ascension. Sleight gives us card selection where scour doesn't, but it also has the least synergy with mission briefing. So I guess it boils down to is the synergy between scour/briefing more beneficial for us then the card selection gained from sleight? I'm currently thinking yes, but will test both options out.
I think you are right about the manabase being an issue. 19 lands is possible but the problem with that solution is that we'd have to go to 3x something which slightly reduce the probability of getting ascension online. Plus I don't know if adding another land would fix the issue of needing to consistently hit UU plus RR plus W with 18 or 19 lands (without shocking yourself down to 12 life most games).
This might seem radical, but if mission briefing does turn out to be the real deal in this deck, would it be worth investigating other threats to replace bedlam reveler and avoid our RR mana issue?? Off the top of my head I am thinking of Myth Realizedor Jace, Vryn's Prodigy as potential options.
Regarding reveler, I've always felt that while its great a lot of the time as a finisher, there are also times when it sits in my hand for too long, waiting for me to empty my hand, then if I get to a point where I am ready to cast it, I'm probably going to win anyway. There is this underlying tension with it in this deck, because its a card that is best when you have an empty hand, being played in a deck full of cards that keep restocking your hand... Also, to me the horror synergy with titi is a bit 'cute' but not all that relevant as it normally comes down after titi has already flipped.
Anyway, food for thought...
I have similar thoughts about Reveler, I already cut one in favor of Land Nr. 19.
Myth Realized was also a consideration, but I think hence this Needs W and is optimal on Turn 1, this would make our Manabase really awkward. I'm not sure about Little Jace, since he is not really a win condition on his own.
My cantrip package is Visions, Opt, Looting, Morphose and Izzet charm. I don't have any Sleigths, so I had to improvise... Thought Scour feels a Little too random, cause it can mill our win conditions. But with the Addition of Mission Briefing, I can actually see it being good.
So for me it would maybe be, replace Looting with Scour and maybe Remand or even Visions with Mission Briefing.
I am also curious, what would be the correct number of Briefings? Do we have to run a full playset?
Thank tou! I think the deck can to be competitive, i did 4 tournament, 1 pptq won, 2 final 1 split 1 won, 1 tournament 4/2 with unluck; woth aascension i never draw spells and i draw 5 lands . The deck need more tune again
Congratulations on your Great finishes!
I would really like to hear your opinion on the potential new Addition Mission Briefing (the new pseudo-Snapcaster). What do you think?
Thanks! I realized that my lgs is jeskai heavy, Is it better to run Shapers' sanctuary instead? Or should I stick with Narnam Renegade
Shaper's Sanctuary is a great Card, but only for your Sideboard. As good it is against Jeskai, you would never play this Mainboard.
Renegade is fine, but only with Fetchlands. In Stompy there is no other way I can think of to consistently trigger Revolt, and without the trigger Renegade is quiet mediocre.
Has anyone tried running wolfbitten captives as a one/two of? I'm new to this thread and actually came from reddit. I also just bought into stompy since I like it's honest game plan.
Welcome to Stompy!
Wolfbitten Captive is not where you want to be - it is much too conditional, and the flipside isn't that impressive. You might consider Kessig Prowler instead, which has some late game potential, but also not my favourite One-drop.
Welcome to the thread, and congrats on the good finish.
The single dissenter's deliverance looks neat.
You did not run into mana problems with 20 lands?
Thank you!
No, the Manabase feels alright with 20 lands, 6 of them fetches. Going up to 8+ fetches I might consider going up to 21, but so far I consistently hit my land drops til 4 lands on around turn 6, which is all the deck wants.
Of course there are the occasional floods/screws, but I played 19 lands before, and that also wasn't a huge problem. So Yes, for me playing 20 lands works.
I can also recommend the 2 Horizon Canopies (not more), they can win games from time to time.
What is your opinion on Treetop Village? I run a single one so far, cause it can make your mana really awkward sometimes. But it does a ton of work in grindy matchups.
I'm not sure about this. 6/6 for 4 is alright, and the Discard-Effect seems neat. But I also see the Problem with the "noncreature-spells"-clause.
Also, I guess in the matchups we'd want it, the Opponent has more than enough mana to negate the hexproof.
To the "GG, return two creatures"-spell: I don't see this in our Sideboards, cause It's useless against Path, Terminus and Scavenging Ooze. I'd rather play Lead the Stampede, which is more likely to find Action.
Absolutely. I played Manamorphose as a cantrip instead of the 20th Land before, and a Wolfir Avenger instead of the third Renegade.
To the PPTQ, here's how it went:
Round 1 Infect (2-1)
This is actually a matchup I would describe as close to unwinnable. I was lucky to draw my removal in time, and to counter his pump spells with Vines of Vastwood. Once the the creatures are done, you can race Infect pretty easily, because there is simplay nothing in your way.
Although, Game 2 was the
I boarded Hunt the Hunter and Natural State as removal and Vines as additional counter, for Ooze, Morphose and a Rancor.
Round 2 Ad Nauseam (2-0)
Not a lot to tell here. I finished him twice as he was not able to find his Combo quick enough. Game 2 Natural State was really helpful.
Boarding artifact and enchantment removal for creature removal and Ooze.
Round 3 4-Color Death Shadow (1-2)
That's a tough one. A lot of removal, Lingering Souls for blocking, counterspells, and Lilianas. Also, Death's Shadow is almost impossible to handle. My Opponent never made the mistake of relying on a single shadow and dying on the backswing, but was patient and killed me with Battle rage twice.
I managed to win Game 2 with Scavenging Ooze and a few protection spells.
Therefore, Boarding is 2nd Scavenging Ooze, 3rd Vines of Vastwood, Shaper's Sanctuary and Act of Aggression instead of some Rancors, Aspects and Deliverance.
Round 4 Humans (2-1)
This was awkward. The games were all very close, I actually won because my Opponent forgot about Reach on the Avatar of the Resolute TWICE. This, by the way, is because of Reach a very important card in the matchup. The most dangerous Cards in the matchup are Thalia (because of First Strike) and the Reflector Mage / Meddling Mage Combo, which can throw you back on the board really hard. But otherwise, the deck cannot handle your creatures effectively, so your chances of racing them are pretty good.
Sideboarding is just Ooze for Deliverance and a Mistcutter Hydra for a Morphose - Pro Blue can be relevant here.
Round 5 Humans (2-1)
This Humans Player was much more skilled. I managed to steal Game 1 with a simple attack into double pump - again, the unawareness of the Opponent for the deck is still an Advantage of this deck. Game 2 he is way ahead with massive creatures, but I managed to stabilize with Experiments and Geists. Here I learned, that the deck can build quiet s atronge defense as well. Unfortunately, he found his removal quicker than me. Game 3 I could win because he missed his land Drops - but still, the curve might have won the game anyway.
Here, Narnam Renegade really shined. Attacking into almost any blocker and get 2 damage or a dead blocker guaranteed is huge. After dying to pump spells in Game 1, my Opponent also really wanted to block my creatures.
Round 6 was an intentional draw against Jund. Sideboarding would be similar to the Death's Shadow Boarding.
In Top 8, I lost 0-2 to Mardu Pyromancer because of missing lands. Very frustrating, thanks to Steel Leaf Champion this matchup is actually quite good.
To my unusual Card choices:
Blossoming Defense
This could also be Vines Nr. 4. The unconditional pump for a single mana, even if there is just a CMC1 creature on the battlefield, can be relevant sometimes.
Dissenter's Deliverance
I used to play Gitaxian Probe when it was legal. Since the banning I looked for other cantrips to effectively reduce the number of Cards in the deck. I tried Manamorphose for a while, the DD is my latest Experiment. Having artifact removal Mainboard can be huge against Affinity, Ensnaring Bridge, Hollow One and Tron. In every other case, it is basically Horizon Canopy.
This is the plan - but I am still in testing here.
Prey Upon
I really like Dismember in the deck, but I wanted a "pain-free" alternative for other Aggro matchups. This also pairs well with Strangleroot Geist (killing a creature and getting an extra power) and Renegade (killing a creature with Deathtouch - although card disadvantage).
This also kills Thalia, cause First Strike is not applied while fighting.
Leatherback Baloth
This is simply Steel Leaf Champion Nr. 5. I thought the deck could need a bit more power in the CMC 3 Slot, and this is my current solution. While Champion is clearly the better Card, Baloth itself is not bad, so it's worth a try.
I was not impressed by Rhonas, since he is a bad topdeck on his own and requires a Setup. The other Option was Groundbreaker, which can steal games, but doesn't provide a real board Advantage if he doesn't kill the Opponent.
Hi Stompy-Community! Just registered to join the discussion. It's wonderful to see that there is a living community around this deck. Stompy was my start into Modern in 2015, and it's still my favourite deck to play.
I just made Top 8 at a PPTQ in Germany (55 Players) with a version close to this (I can list up the Matches and my experiences individually if you are interested). The deck feels great and is still very underrated or even unknown.
amicdeeps's version including the White-Splash looks very interesting, I considered this also. Especially the Selesnya Charm seems decent.
Not the end of the world, but might matter sometimes.
Yes, this seems like an issue. Maybe an amount of ~6 evolvers is correct, so we have one in the opening hand guaranteed?
I think the most interesting question in testing will be, what is more useful, the double Evolve + potential Trample, or Regeneration.
Big question: Addition or replacement for Experiment One?
I wouldn't think the inclusion of Harpooner makes us a bad matchup for Humans.
I agree that Reach on the Avatar is a slight problem for Humans, but that is also because it grows by itself into a 4/3 or larger, Harpooner doesn't. Mantis Rider often attacks with Exalted Trigger(s) or carries +1/+1 Counters from Lieutenant, so I guess Harpooner will often be a chump blocker.
Further, a 3/2 with one less Devotion might make the deck weaker against other strategies, were Reach is not a Factor. In this case, it dies to more removal than Tusker - Brutality, K-Command, Snap-Block, Goblin Guide, etc.
And please don't get me wrong, I would actually like this Card to be good in Stompy, but so far I see more Cons than Pros. The only real upside is it being a Plummet for Mantis Rider or Freebooter.
That would be the case against Ornithopter, Vault Skirge, Souls or Thopter Tokens and maybe Kitesail Freebooter - assumed, there are no +1/+1 Counters one them.
Without the removal, it is just strictly worse than Avatar, quite similar to Garruk's Companion. I prefer playing Kalonian Tusker, because the 3 Toughness can be really important, and the Harpooner (thats what the Name means - native German here
In a nutshell: Interesting Card, but i wouldn't think it's worth adding.
Good hint - I hope the included Surveil will help with that. Cause, if you surveil a second copy of a card into the graveyard and then flashback it, Ascension triggers, right?
Just made some proxies to test the Card.
I am not sure about Snapcaster in the list - although BGx might see a raise in Meta-%. Ooze is the concern here, and TiTi gets killed by the deck anyways. So my hope is, that Mission Briefing will make the Matchup slightly more favourable.
Has anyone tested maindeck counterspells like Spell Pierce? I run a playset of Izzet Charm, which is quite neat, also because of its flexibility.
I have similar thoughts about Reveler, I already cut one in favor of Land Nr. 19.
Myth Realized was also a consideration, but I think hence this Needs W and is optimal on Turn 1, this would make our Manabase really awkward. I'm not sure about Little Jace, since he is not really a win condition on his own.
My cantrip package is Visions, Opt, Looting, Morphose and Izzet charm. I don't have any Sleigths, so I had to improvise... Thought Scour feels a Little too random, cause it can mill our win conditions. But with the Addition of Mission Briefing, I can actually see it being good.
So for me it would maybe be, replace Looting with Scour and maybe Remand or even Visions with Mission Briefing.
I am also curious, what would be the correct number of Briefings? Do we have to run a full playset?
Congratulations on your Great finishes!
I would really like to hear your opinion on the potential new Addition Mission Briefing (the new pseudo-Snapcaster). What do you think?
What would you cut for it? And hence this can be mana intensive, would going up to 19 lands be reasonable?
Shaper's Sanctuary is a great Card, but only for your Sideboard. As good it is against Jeskai, you would never play this Mainboard.
Renegade is fine, but only with Fetchlands. In Stompy there is no other way I can think of to consistently trigger Revolt, and without the trigger Renegade is quiet mediocre.
Welcome to Stompy!
Wolfbitten Captive is not where you want to be - it is much too conditional, and the flipside isn't that impressive. You might consider Kessig Prowler instead, which has some late game potential, but also not my favourite One-drop.
Thank you!
No, the Manabase feels alright with 20 lands, 6 of them fetches. Going up to 8+ fetches I might consider going up to 21, but so far I consistently hit my land drops til 4 lands on around turn 6, which is all the deck wants.
Of course there are the occasional floods/screws, but I played 19 lands before, and that also wasn't a huge problem. So Yes, for me playing 20 lands works.
I can also recommend the 2 Horizon Canopies (not more), they can win games from time to time.
What is your opinion on Treetop Village? I run a single one so far, cause it can make your mana really awkward sometimes. But it does a ton of work in grindy matchups.
Also, I guess in the matchups we'd want it, the Opponent has more than enough mana to negate the hexproof.
To the "GG, return two creatures"-spell: I don't see this in our Sideboards, cause It's useless against Path, Terminus and Scavenging Ooze. I'd rather play Lead the Stampede, which is more likely to find Action.
To the PPTQ, here's how it went:
Round 1 Infect (2-1)
This is actually a matchup I would describe as close to unwinnable. I was lucky to draw my removal in time, and to counter his pump spells with Vines of Vastwood. Once the the creatures are done, you can race Infect pretty easily, because there is simplay nothing in your way.
Although, Game 2 was the
I boarded Hunt the Hunter and Natural State as removal and Vines as additional counter, for Ooze, Morphose and a Rancor.
Round 2 Ad Nauseam (2-0)
Not a lot to tell here. I finished him twice as he was not able to find his Combo quick enough. Game 2 Natural State was really helpful.
Boarding artifact and enchantment removal for creature removal and Ooze.
Round 3 4-Color Death Shadow (1-2)
That's a tough one. A lot of removal, Lingering Souls for blocking, counterspells, and Lilianas. Also, Death's Shadow is almost impossible to handle. My Opponent never made the mistake of relying on a single shadow and dying on the backswing, but was patient and killed me with Battle rage twice.
I managed to win Game 2 with Scavenging Ooze and a few protection spells.
Therefore, Boarding is 2nd Scavenging Ooze, 3rd Vines of Vastwood, Shaper's Sanctuary and Act of Aggression instead of some Rancors, Aspects and Deliverance.
Round 4 Humans (2-1)
This was awkward. The games were all very close, I actually won because my Opponent forgot about Reach on the Avatar of the Resolute TWICE. This, by the way, is because of Reach a very important card in the matchup. The most dangerous Cards in the matchup are Thalia (because of First Strike) and the Reflector Mage / Meddling Mage Combo, which can throw you back on the board really hard. But otherwise, the deck cannot handle your creatures effectively, so your chances of racing them are pretty good.
Sideboarding is just Ooze for Deliverance and a Mistcutter Hydra for a Morphose - Pro Blue can be relevant here.
Round 5 Humans (2-1)
This Humans Player was much more skilled. I managed to steal Game 1 with a simple attack into double pump - again, the unawareness of the Opponent for the deck is still an Advantage of this deck. Game 2 he is way ahead with massive creatures, but I managed to stabilize with Experiments and Geists. Here I learned, that the deck can build quiet s atronge defense as well. Unfortunately, he found his removal quicker than me. Game 3 I could win because he missed his land Drops - but still, the curve might have won the game anyway.
Here, Narnam Renegade really shined. Attacking into almost any blocker and get 2 damage or a dead blocker guaranteed is huge. After dying to pump spells in Game 1, my Opponent also really wanted to block my creatures.
Round 6 was an intentional draw against Jund. Sideboarding would be similar to the Death's Shadow Boarding.
In Top 8, I lost 0-2 to Mardu Pyromancer because of missing lands. Very frustrating, thanks to Steel Leaf Champion this matchup is actually quite good.
To my unusual Card choices:
Blossoming Defense
This could also be Vines Nr. 4. The unconditional pump for a single mana, even if there is just a CMC1 creature on the battlefield, can be relevant sometimes.
Dissenter's Deliverance
I used to play Gitaxian Probe when it was legal. Since the banning I looked for other cantrips to effectively reduce the number of Cards in the deck. I tried Manamorphose for a while, the DD is my latest Experiment. Having artifact removal Mainboard can be huge against Affinity, Ensnaring Bridge, Hollow One and Tron. In every other case, it is basically Horizon Canopy.
This is the plan - but I am still in testing here.
Prey Upon
I really like Dismember in the deck, but I wanted a "pain-free" alternative for other Aggro matchups. This also pairs well with Strangleroot Geist (killing a creature and getting an extra power) and Renegade (killing a creature with Deathtouch - although card disadvantage).
This also kills Thalia, cause First Strike is not applied while fighting.
Leatherback Baloth
This is simply Steel Leaf Champion Nr. 5. I thought the deck could need a bit more power in the CMC 3 Slot, and this is my current solution. While Champion is clearly the better Card, Baloth itself is not bad, so it's worth a try.
I was not impressed by Rhonas, since he is a bad topdeck on his own and requires a Setup. The other Option was Groundbreaker, which can steal games, but doesn't provide a real board Advantage if he doesn't kill the Opponent.
This is my current version:
11 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
Enchantments
3 Rancor
Instants
3 Aspect of Hydra
1 Blossoming Defense
2 Dismember
1 Dissenter's Deliverance
2 Vines of Vastwood
1 Prey Upon
Creatures
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
2 Kalonian Tusker
1 Leatherback Baloth
3 Narnam Renegade
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Act of Aggression
2 Damping Sphere
1 Feed the Clan
1 Hunt the Hunter
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Natural State
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Vines of Vastwood
I just made Top 8 at a PPTQ in Germany (55 Players) with a version close to this (I can list up the Matches and my experiences individually if you are interested). The deck feels great and is still very underrated or even unknown.
amicdeeps's version including the White-Splash looks very interesting, I considered this also. Especially the Selesnya Charm seems decent.