I do know that the gate deck is heavy on uncommons... which also means that fewer wildcards are required to make the deck on average. Does your newer deck use fewer rares/mythics or fewer cards you crafted with wildcards? Those are the two measures I can think of that would let wizards distinguish between precons and actual competitive decks.
I bet this is it. R/W deck is a lot "cheaper" to build in rarity terms than the other one. Man that is some lame ass rigging of the matchmaking. No wonder gate decks are so popular in Arena - you get matched up in potentially "easier" games.
What are you playing? Ranked, Traditional Ranked? Normal matchmaking, Constructed events?
If you are playing the best of 1 unranked then yes, there is some matchmaking based on deck going on. At some point it was confirmed that they were attempting to match based on Deck "strength" but what that actually means has been vague and ill understood.
Bo1 Ranked... :\ Figures.
This game is so unlike actual Magic it really does it a disservice.
Back to the topic of Arena too difficult, a lot of this is Magic by design. Cards are pushed to make certain decks "competitive" and this means that certain decks are so far and away beyond anything else you can make in terms of power that they can't be beaten unless you play with another tier one deck. And naturally you will rarely, if not never see anyone NOT playing a tier 1 deck on Arena. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who wasnt playing one of the big tier 1 decks. It never happens in this game. So if you dont have a perfectly tuned deck, you dont stand a chance. SO the whole goal of Arena is to somehow amass the WCs needed to build yourself a Tier 1 deck, and then hope you like it because its really all you can play. (Not to mention that the game is rigged with weird card distribution happening constantly, but yeah, enjoy)
So people are playing competitive decks in a competitive format? Gee, what a shocker. It's almost like dangling LITERALLY ten million dollars in front of people is able to encourage them to be competitive for a slice of that pie. Go figure.
As for cards being pushed to being competitive? Okay, you make it sound like that's different from any other CCG out there. Wizards has a general idea of what cards are going to be really good, but going through even their not-too-distant history there are examples upon examples upon examples of times they've missed the mark entirely. What are you trying to prove here, that good cards are good?
ed why
You clearly have no interest in Arena and don't want to bother with it. Please leave and let the rest oHe asked why f us have fun.
WHy asked why Arena was hard you ******* dork. Jesus Christ dude, sorry some people dont <<SNIP>>.
Back to the topic of Arena too difficult, a lot of this is Magic by design. Cards are pushed to make certain decks "competitive" and this means that certain decks are so far and away beyond anything else you can make in terms of power that they can't be beaten unless you play with another tier one deck. And naturally you will rarely, if not never see anyone NOT playing a tier 1 deck on Arena. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who wasnt playing one of the big tier 1 decks. It never happens in this game. So if you dont have a perfectly tuned deck, you dont stand a chance. SO the whole goal of Arena is to somehow amass the WCs needed to build yourself a Tier 1 deck, and then hope you like it because its really all you can play. (Not to mention that the game is rigged with weird card distribution happening constantly, but yeah, enjoy)
Playing G/B or against them? Bet you see a Wildgrowth Walker every turn two and a Merfolk Branchwalker every turn three and four. I have both those cards in my opening hand virtually every single game.
I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!
Except the game IS the same, and that's on purpose. Playing a carnage tyrant in Arena is exactly the same as playing a carnage tyrant in paper, and anyone who thinks Arena should be different solely because it's digital has huge delusions over what Arena was meant to do, and what people clearly wanted.
Is the economy the same? No, of course not. Is the path to making a deck the same? Not really. Wizards is a company, they need to make money, and they can't make money off of making what would be tantamount to an official version of cockatrice that gives you access to every card in the game to do with however you like. So yes, you have to pay for a good deck, like literally every other CCG in existence. You can pay with time, by grinding out limited events and CE coinfarming and getting packs that way; or you can pay with money, turning cash into gems into packs and WCs. Expecting anything else is short-sighted at best and thoughtless at worst.
I could get in depth of your specific example and math out how much money it would take to upgrade NOW, and how much cheaper it would be from upgrading in paper, but since you clearly only made this account to try and bash the game instead of playing it, the work would fall on deaf ears.
Keep playing hearthstone on your phone and leave us in peace if this is all you have.
It's ******* hilarious that you LITERALLY just said "Arena and Paper are exactly the same. Now here's a list of ways they are totally different."
If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product.
So, since "BestMagicGamer" doesn`t seem to be interested in any constructive discussion, I feel like someone should pick this up.
Of course, MTGA is not a seperate game from paper magic - it can't be totally different from the game it is a digital adaption of, obviously. BUT that's talking about mechanics/gemeplay. A direct comparison of the financial aspect is problematic. In paper magic, you get physical cards with at least some resellability, everything you buy in MTGA is purely for your personal use and holds no objective value. So a comparison to other digital games makes more sense than comparing to a physical card game.
That said, I don't think MTGA is particularly expensive. You can get pretty far without spending ANY money and with relatively little investment, you can easily build 1 or 2 viable competitive decks. Personally I spent less than 50€ so far and I already got more out of it than quite some full price games (have 3 pretty refined decks, a fourth almost finished and a lot of semi-competitive brews).
Of course, it depends on your expectations - if you want to be able to play every existing Tier 1 whenever you feel like it, it will be expensive. But this goes for every collectible game ever, physical or digital.
I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!
I think it's as FirstswordofBant says. If you want to play the best top tier deck as soon as the first set is released, it's going to be expensive. Perhaps your solution is to learn to enjoy drafting/sealed more. I find that I naturally open enough rares/mythics through that to get me started on a good deck. However, it does involve a lot of patience when crafting a new deck. If you're good player/deck builder, come close to maximizing your daily rewards, and save/spend your resources wisely, Arena can be pretty cheap.
I'm currently farming gold with my self-built/rogue Gruul Aggro deck on Arena constructed event to good effect. I've spent $65 over all since Arena's open beta (for hours upon hours of drafting, not pack cracking.) I have two top tier deck lists and the ability to create more if I want. While I did save up a bunch of gold/wildcards specifically for this release, anyone can do that. I spent 3 mythic wildcards and about 10 gold wildcards to create my deck. Haven't spent any rare/mythic wildcards in a few days now, though I have changed my deck many times since then. I have 3 drafts worth of gold, 1 draft in gems plus countless commons/uncommon wildcards, plus 1 rare and 1 mythic saved up for a rainy day.
Maybe Arena isn't for you. Many people here seem to do fine with it and find it relatively cheap compared to paper Magic or even other online card games.
Again, no ones talking to you. Check out the "I want to hug and kiss Wizards of the Coast uwu" thread. Byeeeeee!
If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product.
So, since "BestMagicGamer" doesn`t seem to be interested in any constructive discussion, I feel like someone should pick this up.
Of course, MTGA is not a seperate game from paper magic - it can't be totally different from the game it is a digital adaption of, obviously. BUT that's talking about mechanics/gemeplay. A direct comparison of the financial aspect is problematic. In paper magic, you get physical cards with at least some resellability, everything you buy in MTGA is purely for your personal use and holds no objective value. So a comparison to other digital games makes more sense than comparing to a physical card game.
That said, I don't think MTGA is particularly expensive. You can get pretty far without spending ANY money and with relatively little investment, you can easily build 1 or 2 viable competitive decks. Personally I spent less than 50€ so far and I already got more out of it than quite some full price games (have 3 pretty refined decks, a fourth almost finished and a lot of semi-competitive brews).
Of course, it depends on your expectations - if you want to be able to play every existing Tier 1 whenever you feel like it, it will be expensive. But this goes for every collectible game ever, physical or digital.
I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!
Well, it's not a separate product. That's like trying to insist that a video game for Playstation 4 is totally different then the x box one version. They are basically the same game, you're just playing them on different platforms. To not compare them makes no sense. Especially when they are competing for each other within most people's wallets. You insisting that we NOT compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.
You "Don't compare the theatrical version of a film with the director's cut! They are totally different films!" No they aren't. The games are literally identical in some ways, so you to insist that we don't compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.
I just don't know how cheap you expect a game to be. I have 2 tier 1 standard decks that in a way I spent nothing on. You see, I spent $ on Arena to draft, which is already a game in it's self. So any cards I open I was able to use in a deck are really just gravy in a way.
I did exactly what Colt47 described, only I didn't have to save up A TON of rare wild cards. I had 10 rare gold wildcards and 3 mythic rare wildcards going into Allegiance. I drafted it a bunch, opened up some cards I liked. Thought "I'd like to build Gruul, this looks like it will be a good deck and I opened a few of the pieces for it already." The deck runs incredibly and I'm shooting up the ranks. I spent $40 on MTG A when allegiance was released, not to crack packs, but to draft. With the cards I opened from the set plus not even ALL of my wildcards, I built a GOOD deck. Sure I had cards from last season that I put in the deck, but I just opened those through drafting/prize pack opening, not spending tons of $.
So I say it's bullcrap that Arena is too expensive to build a deck (for most employed people working even at minimum wage full time.) (it's not even too expensive for kids with like a $20 a month allowance!!!) I've built many decks for less than the cost of building 1 standard deck IN PAPER, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPARABLE. Honestly, how cheap does a deck need to be for you to be happy with Wizards? Do 3 color tier 1 decks need to cost $5 in your opinion to build? I mean building a deck that you can play for free there after, and can use for about 2 years at the cost of $40 is REALLY cheap actually.
You want a different comparison? A video game costs what $67 after tax or something. How many hours of gameplay do you get out of it? How much did you spend on that console in the first place to play the video game? By comparison, MTG Arena is much cheaper than playing video games, going out to the movies, playing paper Magic et.
I guess the real lesson here is "Haters gonna hate."
You're a ******* idiot.
As I said... Haters gonna hate.
If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product. It's not as though wizards develops 2 different sets of cards for Arena vs. standard. They same R&D team designing cards for paper Magic are also designing them for Arena at the same moment. If you can present a good argument as to why we shouldn't compare Arena to paper Magic I'll listen to it. Otherwise, Arena to paper Magic is the MOST comparable thing you can find, except perhaps MTGO.
"Don't compare these two extremely similar things! Made by the exact same people whose games are almost entirely identical!" You say. Why shouldn't we?
Well, it's not a separate product. That's like trying to insist that a video game for Playstation 4 is totally different then the x box one version. They are basically the same game, you're just playing them on different platforms. To not compare them makes no sense. Especially when they are competing for each other within most people's wallets. You insisting that we NOT compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.
You "Don't compare the theatrical version of a film with the director's cut! They are totally different films!" No they aren't. The games are literally identical in some ways, so you to insist that we don't compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.
I just don't know how cheap you expect a game to be. I have 2 tier 1 standard decks that in a way I spent nothing on. You see, I spent $ on Arena to draft, which is already a game in it's self. So any cards I open I was able to use in a deck are really just gravy in a way.
I did exactly what Colt47 described, only I didn't have to save up A TON of rare wild cards. I had 10 rare gold wildcards and 3 mythic rare wildcards going into Allegiance. I drafted it a bunch, opened up some cards I liked. Thought "I'd like to build Gruul, this looks like it will be a good deck and I opened a few of the pieces for it already." The deck runs incredibly and I'm shooting up the ranks. I spent $40 on MTG A when allegiance was released, not to crack packs, but to draft. With the cards I opened from the set plus not even ALL of my wildcards, I built a GOOD deck. Sure I had cards from last season that I put in the deck, but I just opened those through drafting/prize pack opening, not spending tons of $.
So I say it's bullcrap that Arena is too expensive to build a deck (for most employed people working even at minimum wage full time.) (it's not even too expensive for kids with like a $20 a month allowance!!!) I've built many decks for less than the cost of building 1 standard deck IN PAPER, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPARABLE. Honestly, how cheap does a deck need to be for you to be happy with Wizards? Do 3 color tier 1 decks need to cost $5 in your opinion to build? I mean building a deck that you can play for free there after, and can use for about 2 years at the cost of $40 is REALLY cheap actually.
You want a different comparison? A video game costs what $67 after tax or something. How many hours of gameplay do you get out of it? How much did you spend on that console in the first place to play the video game? By comparison, MTG Arena is much cheaper than playing video games, going out to the movies, playing paper Magic et.
I guess the real lesson here is "Haters gonna hate."
Well, going by how the acquisition of cards work, it looks like wizards now has a means to make all tier 1 competitive decks cost the same amount of money no matter what the meta turns out like. Basically, you can only earn a certain number of rare wild cards per day and the only way to go over that number is to buy packs. This leads to a situation where if someone plays a T1 deck in standard and wants to make it to the top of the ladder for competitive play, they would have to spend the money early to get all the wild cards needed for the deck OR save up a tremendous amount of wild cards for a single season, then wait until the meta pans out.
I've literally swapped to playing "Gates everywhere .dec" because I don't see a point in wasting my time buying relentless numbers of packs for wild cards. If they introduce an eternal format, than I'm going to spend my rare wild cards on things good in that format. Otherwise, spending wild cards wildly on things you think you need for a specific build is a recipe for disaster. The only cards I haven't felt bad about buying are the lands.
Also going to add that MTG A has made the games weaknesses far more apparent. Everytime someone gets land screwed or flooded in this game, or the shuffler decides it's a good idea to stick 10+ lands all on top, you get reminded as to why all the other card games now put resources outside the main deck. Force of Will is still my favorite game to play. MTG is sort of like "I feel like playing cards and this is the only thing in town that I'm able to do" kind of a thing.
Yeah, honestly if anything Arena has made me LESS interested in Magic. I am not buying packs as much as I used to, I don't go to FNM as much as I used to. The flaws in the game are so much more apparent, and I appreciate games like Hearthstone much more now, as Wizards seems to be borderline incompetent in their design both in cards and in a game platform.
The new standard meta is now SO EXPENSIVE, I don't see how anyone can keep up with it as a F2P player unless all they want to play is RDW. The amount of Rare and Mythic cards needed in every meta deck is insane - 30-40 Rares, 10-15 Mythics. I know WOTC is really pushing this game to get more players, what with the big moron streamer tournament and all, but I can't see how ANY new players, especially new to Magic completely, would be sticking around to play this. It is so astronomically expensive just to update previous meta decks to the new meta - imagine starting from scratch,
Have you not played paper standard Magic before? Decks run $150 to $300, even more depending on the meta. I can understand finding the cost a bit much if you've never played Magic before. Compared to paper however, Arena is much cheaper. Especially given that you can just draft your way into a good chunk of a deck with the money you spend.
I can see it being frustrating to try and build a complete deck if you just log onto Arena for the first time. However, with a bit of time and research into how best to spend your gold/gems, you can make a deck for pretty cheap eventually.
This is not paper though. Why can't you people view this as a separate product? The constant comparisons to paper magic is irrelevant. (And the massive cost of paper Magic is not a good defense either. Paper or Arena, the new meta is obscenely expensive either way).
Because of your curve. The hand manipulation 100% is at work here. I'm quite sure, if we could somehow test against bots, someone could script things to find the algorithm, and give you an 'optimal' 60, for Best of 1.
EDIT: Would you run 18 lands in paper? Hell no. Can you get away with it on Arena? You bet.
It feels totally unnatural. I've played a lot of REAL magic, and I don't ever see the variance in that that I do in Arena. Now that the meta is like 80% Red, you can play against like 20 Red decks a day and I see a mulligan like once, but EVERY game they drop the same cards early: Lavarunner, Shock. Without fail, My first creature will be shocked. My second will be Shocked. There will be two Lavarunners out. And likeise I always pull the same cards in my decks.
I bet this is it. R/W deck is a lot "cheaper" to build in rarity terms than the other one. Man that is some lame ass rigging of the matchmaking. No wonder gate decks are so popular in Arena - you get matched up in potentially "easier" games.
Bo1 Ranked... :\ Figures.
This game is so unlike actual Magic it really does it a disservice.
Switch to R/W aggro, see 70% Gate decks.
I'm sure just norrrrrrrrrrmal variation though... Mmmmmhmmmm.
WHy asked why Arena was hard you ******* dork. Jesus Christ dude, sorry some people dont <<SNIP>>.
It's ******* hilarious that you LITERALLY just said "Arena and Paper are exactly the same. Now here's a list of ways they are totally different."
Again, no ones talking to you. Check out the "I want to hug and kiss Wizards of the Coast uwu" thread. Byeeeeee!
I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!
*Apu voice* "Haters going to hate."
Like I said. You're an idiot.
You're a ******* idiot.
Yeah, honestly if anything Arena has made me LESS interested in Magic. I am not buying packs as much as I used to, I don't go to FNM as much as I used to. The flaws in the game are so much more apparent, and I appreciate games like Hearthstone much more now, as Wizards seems to be borderline incompetent in their design both in cards and in a game platform.
This is not paper though. Why can't you people view this as a separate product? The constant comparisons to paper magic is irrelevant. (And the massive cost of paper Magic is not a good defense either. Paper or Arena, the new meta is obscenely expensive either way).
It feels totally unnatural. I've played a lot of REAL magic, and I don't ever see the variance in that that I do in Arena. Now that the meta is like 80% Red, you can play against like 20 Red decks a day and I see a mulligan like once, but EVERY game they drop the same cards early: Lavarunner, Shock. Without fail, My first creature will be shocked. My second will be Shocked. There will be two Lavarunners out. And likeise I always pull the same cards in my decks.