Magic Market Index for March 15th, 2019
 
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  • posted a message on Competitive Standard just isn't really that "fun" and Arena suffers for that
    Quote from Algernone25 »
    (Was banned from the official forums for this observation, so here it is)
    I don't think Competitive Standard is a "fun" way to play Magic. It's good. It has it's place - Seeing the best deck you can create and trying to beat all others is totally a legit way to play the game. However it's not an inherently "fun" experience, especially when that's all you have. Magic offers so many ways to play, but in Arena, since the goal is 'win at all costs' and the only free modes are Ranked and Play, that means in Arena THE game is competitive standard. (There's Draft and Sealed, but those are $$$$ and there's the occasional, blue-moon Pauper or Singleton but they're so rare as to hardly consider 'modes of play' in Arena). So Ranked play is all the same top tier decks. And you have to play those too unless you enjoy losing by turn four. I get tired of playing Esper Control sometimes and want to try something janky or a combo deck or even just a halfway decent deck like Esper midrange, but there is no place to play them. Anything else get's crushed fast in Ranked. Even unranked Play mode is all the same tier-1 decks: Monored, monoblue, Esper, Gates, Sultai, Dimir.. on a loop. Sign in to Arena, play one of your tier 1 decks, play 4 games against monored, 2 monoblue and a dimir control, then quit. Janky decks aren't fun to play when your opponent is playing World Championship Mono Red Turn 3 victory deck in the unranked freeplay mode. And I don't know about you guys but I get bored of playing my top tier decks after a while. So what does that leave? The occasional Draft game when I save up enough gold once a week maybe? Draft is fun, but I like deckbuilding and want to play some other games. But right now there's no place for anything else in Arena. So I've just been logging in, doing my daily quest, and leaving... usually feeling "well that was a waste of time" after I'm done. I'd love for this game to make it, but sadly I dont think it's much fun.


    Seeing as you have repeatedly shown yourself to be incapable of handling subtlety, I'm going to be blunt. You aren't having fun because you are terrible at the game.

    When you just started after jumping over from Hearthstone it was understandable - the game is new, there's a completely different resource system, there's a lot of new effects and timing and all kinds of stuff that HS never touched. Magic is a much more nuanced game, and there's going to be a learning curve. Everyone starts out terrible at the game, but if you take the time to learn and understand the differences, you can do well. Several notable HS players have transitioned to Magic very well even if you don't count Brian Kibler (Who started with MTG, jumped on the HS bandwagon and with Arena has come back to MTG)

    You have not done this. Instead you have chosen to complain about every single aspect of magic that you don't like, as if you expect that it will magically change for you. Furthermore, you have not only ignored every attempt by everyone on this website to give you advice, you have made an art form out of deflecting blame from yourself. Lose a game or two because of mana flood or topdecks? Obviously wizards is rigging hands! Lose a game because you ignored a disinformation campaign until drew them 10 cards? Wizards can't balance cards worth a hell, these need to be banned! Get blown out by a pteramander you made no effort to kill because you didn't recognize it for the must-answer threat it clearly is? Magic isn't fun, you're just playing the same tier 1 decks on repeat. Do you honestly listen to yourself when you say these things? It's like listening to a whining 5-year old who got a different toy than the one they wanted and is throwing a temper tantrum, and you should be embarrassed.

    And no, magic will not change for you, because you want a game that fundamentally isn't magic. If you were actually GOOD at the game and not stuck in the bronze and silver ranks you would see that the game is incredibly varied, there's easily ten to twelve decks you can run into in plat and mythic with regularity, to say nothing of the meme decks like Rainbow Lich or High Alert Marwyn that still win games because the format is one of the widest open we've seen in five years. If you were actually GOOD at the game you would bring up some of the actual legitimate concerns with Arena going forward instead of Dessy's sponsored crapposts, because there are questions that we want answered that are going to make or break the game in the future. And I find it very likely the reason you were banned was because of these personal failings that you STILL have found a way to maintain aren't your fault.

    But you're not good at the game, in fact you seem to take pride in refusing to try to become good. So I'm glad you're finally leaving, because it means the rest of us will suffer a little bit less now that you're gone. #ByeFelicia



    I guess most players suck then. Ended last season in Diamond. And that's not the point of the post. The point is Arena needs more game modes. But you incel gamergate nerds cant see past gentle criticism of any consumer product that you devote your personality too. I'm sorry the mean "sportsball" jocks picked on you in high school because you had acne and smelled like pond water and your only outlet was purchasing consumer goods. Maybe you should join a gym or something. Get out of your gaming chair and comfort zone and improve yourself a bit. Maybe people would like you. Its a big "maybe" I'll grant but I'll be praying for you. There is always hope, even for the most repulsive nerd out there. You just gotta want it and put in the work. A better life cant be purchased at GameStop.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Competitive Standard just isn't really that "fun" and Arena suffers for that
    Quote from Andethir »
    This is and always be a matter of opinion. What does "fun" mean to you?

    I am playing unranked with four planeswalker decks from GRN/RNA, which I slowly upgrade from ePacks for gold, and I'm having a lot of fun playing against various decks, and having 20% - 40% win rate.

    I don't play ranked or limited (I don't know how to draft), and in the future I probably won't spend any money in game. For me, this approach is enough and fun. For you, maybe not.


    This is actually what I would consider fun, and would like to be able to do. But at some point you will probably get tired of a 20% win ratio. Even if you're like "winning doesnt matter to me" it gets boring to play games where you've lost by turn 5 over and over. You want to try out your deck. You want a game that goes on for a couple rounds. You cant get that here.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Competitive Standard just isn't really that "fun" and Arena suffers for that
    (Was banned from the official forums for this observation, so here it is)
    I don't think Competitive Standard is a "fun" way to play Magic. It's good. It has it's place - Seeing the best deck you can create and trying to beat all others is totally a legit way to play the game. However it's not an inherently "fun" experience, especially when that's all you have. Magic offers so many ways to play, but in Arena, since the goal is 'win at all costs' and the only free modes are Ranked and Play, that means in Arena THE game is competitive standard. (There's Draft and Sealed, but those are $$$$ and there's the occasional, blue-moon Pauper or Singleton but they're so rare as to hardly consider 'modes of play' in Arena). So Ranked play is all the same top tier decks. And you have to play those too unless you enjoy losing by turn four. I get tired of playing Esper Control sometimes and want to try something janky or a combo deck or even just a halfway decent deck like Esper midrange, but there is no place to play them. Anything else get's crushed fast in Ranked. Even unranked Play mode is all the same tier-1 decks: Monored, monoblue, Esper, Gates, Sultai, Dimir.. on a loop. Sign in to Arena, play one of your tier 1 decks, play 4 games against monored, 2 monoblue and a dimir control, then quit. Janky decks aren't fun to play when your opponent is playing World Championship Mono Red Turn 3 victory deck in the unranked freeplay mode. And I don't know about you guys but I get bored of playing my top tier decks after a while. So what does that leave? The occasional Draft game when I save up enough gold once a week maybe? Draft is fun, but I like deckbuilding and want to play some other games. But right now there's no place for anything else in Arena. So I've just been logging in, doing my daily quest, and leaving... usually feeling "well that was a waste of time" after I'm done. I'd love for this game to make it, but sadly I dont think it's much fun.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Cost Vs Paper Discussion (And advisory)
    I agree with paper being cheaper. For me the issue with Arena is the lootbox aspect and that I can't really just craft a card I want without "earning" one of their obnoxious wildcards. There are SO many rare cards and mythic cards in each viable meta deck, and there is little crossover unless you play similar decks. So to make my Golgari deck, from before RNA dropped, I needed say 18 rares and 7 mythics. Now I am tapped out of rare and mythic wildcards. RNA launches and to make that deck competitive again I need another 6 rares and 4 mythics. The only way to get these are to open a boatload of packs (is it 20 packs for the guaranteed mythic?) In a shop I can buy them, and even sell the cards that are not in the meta anymore. And some of these rares I need are like $0.75. But in Arena they all have the same value and that value is either long-ass grind, or $40+ in packs to either lootbox RNG the card or earn the WC.

    Heaven forbid that you get tired of playing the same deck over and over and want to change it up and make something else competitive. Now I need to earn another 20 rares and 10 mythics (on average Id say) to build another deck of a different type. Arena is a huge expense IMO. IRL I play mainly draft at FNM and buy a few packs or cards just to mess around in standard and I have better standard decks IRL than I do in Arena which I can play everyday. And my cards have an actual real-world value. So even though it's not a true investment, it at least feels like if I drop $3 on a pack, I can "earn" money by pulling a $10 card from it. In Arena it's all valueless except in it's rarity which is selectively doled out by a program that rewards only time or (larger) amounts of money.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Is there a land manipulation feature for Bo3 like Bo1? // How many lands to not get mana screwed in Bo3?
    It's a top decking miracle every game! This game is so full of rigged draws it should be illegal.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on I strongly suspect their is some deck-based matchmaking happening
    I do know that the gate deck is heavy on uncommons... which also means that fewer wildcards are required to make the deck on average. Does your newer deck use fewer rares/mythics or fewer cards you crafted with wildcards? Those are the two measures I can think of that would let wizards distinguish between precons and actual competitive decks.


    I bet this is it. R/W deck is a lot "cheaper" to build in rarity terms than the other one. Man that is some lame ass rigging of the matchmaking. No wonder gate decks are so popular in Arena - you get matched up in potentially "easier" games.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on I strongly suspect their is some deck-based matchmaking happening
    Quote from user_938036 »
    What are you playing? Ranked, Traditional Ranked? Normal matchmaking, Constructed events?

    If you are playing the best of 1 unranked then yes, there is some matchmaking based on deck going on. At some point it was confirmed that they were attempting to match based on Deck "strength" but what that actually means has been vague and ill understood.


    Bo1 Ranked... :\ Figures.

    This game is so unlike actual Magic it really does it a disservice.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on I strongly suspect their is some deck-based matchmaking happening
    Run an esper control deck for weeks, see maybe 5% Gate decks.
    Switch to R/W aggro, see 70% Gate decks.

    I'm sure just norrrrrrrrrrmal variation though... Mmmmmhmmmm.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Arena too difficult? Or maybe it's just me...
    Quote from Algernone25 »
    Back to the topic of Arena too difficult, a lot of this is Magic by design. Cards are pushed to make certain decks "competitive" and this means that certain decks are so far and away beyond anything else you can make in terms of power that they can't be beaten unless you play with another tier one deck. And naturally you will rarely, if not never see anyone NOT playing a tier 1 deck on Arena. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who wasnt playing one of the big tier 1 decks. It never happens in this game. So if you dont have a perfectly tuned deck, you dont stand a chance. SO the whole goal of Arena is to somehow amass the WCs needed to build yourself a Tier 1 deck, and then hope you like it because its really all you can play. (Not to mention that the game is rigged with weird card distribution happening constantly, but yeah, enjoy)


    So people are playing competitive decks in a competitive format? Gee, what a shocker. It's almost like dangling LITERALLY ten million dollars in front of people is able to encourage them to be competitive for a slice of that pie. Go figure.

    As for cards being pushed to being competitive? Okay, you make it sound like that's different from any other CCG out there. Wizards has a general idea of what cards are going to be really good, but going through even their not-too-distant history there are examples upon examples upon examples of times they've missed the mark entirely. What are you trying to prove here, that good cards are good?
    ed why
    You clearly have no interest in Arena and don't want to bother with it. Please leave and let the rest oHe asked why f us have fun.


    WHy asked why Arena was hard you ******* dork. Jesus Christ dude, sorry some people dont <<SNIP>>.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Arena too difficult? Or maybe it's just me...
    Back to the topic of Arena too difficult, a lot of this is Magic by design. Cards are pushed to make certain decks "competitive" and this means that certain decks are so far and away beyond anything else you can make in terms of power that they can't be beaten unless you play with another tier one deck. And naturally you will rarely, if not never see anyone NOT playing a tier 1 deck on Arena. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who wasnt playing one of the big tier 1 decks. It never happens in this game. So if you dont have a perfectly tuned deck, you dont stand a chance. SO the whole goal of Arena is to somehow amass the WCs needed to build yourself a Tier 1 deck, and then hope you like it because its really all you can play. (Not to mention that the game is rigged with weird card distribution happening constantly, but yeah, enjoy)
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Why do I constantly have the same cards in my hand, and see the same ones from opponents?
    Playing G/B or against them? Bet you see a Wildgrowth Walker every turn two and a Merfolk Branchwalker every turn three and four. I have both those cards in my opening hand virtually every single game.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Are that many people really spending money on this game?
    Quote from Algernone25 »
    I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!


    Except the game IS the same, and that's on purpose. Playing a carnage tyrant in Arena is exactly the same as playing a carnage tyrant in paper, and anyone who thinks Arena should be different solely because it's digital has huge delusions over what Arena was meant to do, and what people clearly wanted.

    Is the economy the same? No, of course not. Is the path to making a deck the same? Not really. Wizards is a company, they need to make money, and they can't make money off of making what would be tantamount to an official version of cockatrice that gives you access to every card in the game to do with however you like. So yes, you have to pay for a good deck, like literally every other CCG in existence. You can pay with time, by grinding out limited events and CE coinfarming and getting packs that way; or you can pay with money, turning cash into gems into packs and WCs. Expecting anything else is short-sighted at best and thoughtless at worst.

    I could get in depth of your specific example and math out how much money it would take to upgrade NOW, and how much cheaper it would be from upgrading in paper, but since you clearly only made this account to try and bash the game instead of playing it, the work would fall on deaf ears.

    Keep playing hearthstone on your phone and leave us in peace if this is all you have.


    It's ******* hilarious that you LITERALLY just said "Arena and Paper are exactly the same. Now here's a list of ways they are totally different."
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Are that many people really spending money on this game?
    Quote from JaishivaJai »
    Quote from JaishivaJai »
    If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product.

    So, since "BestMagicGamer" doesn`t seem to be interested in any constructive discussion, I feel like someone should pick this up.
    Of course, MTGA is not a seperate game from paper magic - it can't be totally different from the game it is a digital adaption of, obviously. BUT that's talking about mechanics/gemeplay. A direct comparison of the financial aspect is problematic. In paper magic, you get physical cards with at least some resellability, everything you buy in MTGA is purely for your personal use and holds no objective value. So a comparison to other digital games makes more sense than comparing to a physical card game.

    That said, I don't think MTGA is particularly expensive. You can get pretty far without spending ANY money and with relatively little investment, you can easily build 1 or 2 viable competitive decks. Personally I spent less than 50€ so far and I already got more out of it than quite some full price games (have 3 pretty refined decks, a fourth almost finished and a lot of semi-competitive brews).
    Of course, it depends on your expectations - if you want to be able to play every existing Tier 1 whenever you feel like it, it will be expensive. But this goes for every collectible game ever, physical or digital.


    I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!

    I think it's as FirstswordofBant says. If you want to play the best top tier deck as soon as the first set is released, it's going to be expensive. Perhaps your solution is to learn to enjoy drafting/sealed more. I find that I naturally open enough rares/mythics through that to get me started on a good deck. However, it does involve a lot of patience when crafting a new deck. If you're good player/deck builder, come close to maximizing your daily rewards, and save/spend your resources wisely, Arena can be pretty cheap.

    I'm currently farming gold with my self-built/rogue Gruul Aggro deck on Arena constructed event to good effect. I've spent $65 over all since Arena's open beta (for hours upon hours of drafting, not pack cracking.) I have two top tier deck lists and the ability to create more if I want. While I did save up a bunch of gold/wildcards specifically for this release, anyone can do that. I spent 3 mythic wildcards and about 10 gold wildcards to create my deck. Haven't spent any rare/mythic wildcards in a few days now, though I have changed my deck many times since then. I have 3 drafts worth of gold, 1 draft in gems plus countless commons/uncommon wildcards, plus 1 rare and 1 mythic saved up for a rainy day.

    Maybe Arena isn't for you. Many people here seem to do fine with it and find it relatively cheap compared to paper Magic or even other online card games.


    Again, no ones talking to you. Check out the "I want to hug and kiss Wizards of the Coast uwu" thread. Byeeeeee!
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Are that many people really spending money on this game?
    Quote from JaishivaJai »
    If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product.

    So, since "BestMagicGamer" doesn`t seem to be interested in any constructive discussion, I feel like someone should pick this up.
    Of course, MTGA is not a seperate game from paper magic - it can't be totally different from the game it is a digital adaption of, obviously. BUT that's talking about mechanics/gemeplay. A direct comparison of the financial aspect is problematic. In paper magic, you get physical cards with at least some resellability, everything you buy in MTGA is purely for your personal use and holds no objective value. So a comparison to other digital games makes more sense than comparing to a physical card game.

    That said, I don't think MTGA is particularly expensive. You can get pretty far without spending ANY money and with relatively little investment, you can easily build 1 or 2 viable competitive decks. Personally I spent less than 50€ so far and I already got more out of it than quite some full price games (have 3 pretty refined decks, a fourth almost finished and a lot of semi-competitive brews).
    Of course, it depends on your expectations - if you want to be able to play every existing Tier 1 whenever you feel like it, it will be expensive. But this goes for every collectible game ever, physical or digital.


    I'm just not interested in discussing anything with the WOTC boot lickers who cant concede simple facts like "an online digital game is not identical to a physical card game." That said, no, Arena is not cheap and no you cant get far without spending money. Simply trying to update a meta deck to a new one with the new expansion is impossible without spending money. For example, to update a G/B deck to be competitive in the new meta I need at least four to five Mythic rare cards. I can either buy a ton of packs and hope to get them, or use WCs. Mythic Wlidcards are earned at a rate of, what every 20 packs? So I buy 80-100 packs to just update my deck for the new expansion. Super cheap!!
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Are that many people really spending money on this game?
    Quote from JaishivaJai »
    Quote from JaishivaJai »
    Well, it's not a separate product. That's like trying to insist that a video game for Playstation 4 is totally different then the x box one version. They are basically the same game, you're just playing them on different platforms. To not compare them makes no sense. Especially when they are competing for each other within most people's wallets. You insisting that we NOT compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.

    You "Don't compare the theatrical version of a film with the director's cut! They are totally different films!" No they aren't. The games are literally identical in some ways, so you to insist that we don't compare it to paper Magic is what doesn't make any sense.

    I just don't know how cheap you expect a game to be. I have 2 tier 1 standard decks that in a way I spent nothing on. You see, I spent $ on Arena to draft, which is already a game in it's self. So any cards I open I was able to use in a deck are really just gravy in a way.

    I did exactly what Colt47 described, only I didn't have to save up A TON of rare wild cards. I had 10 rare gold wildcards and 3 mythic rare wildcards going into Allegiance. I drafted it a bunch, opened up some cards I liked. Thought "I'd like to build Gruul, this looks like it will be a good deck and I opened a few of the pieces for it already." The deck runs incredibly and I'm shooting up the ranks. I spent $40 on MTG A when allegiance was released, not to crack packs, but to draft. With the cards I opened from the set plus not even ALL of my wildcards, I built a GOOD deck. Sure I had cards from last season that I put in the deck, but I just opened those through drafting/prize pack opening, not spending tons of $.

    So I say it's bullcrap that Arena is too expensive to build a deck (for most employed people working even at minimum wage full time.) (it's not even too expensive for kids with like a $20 a month allowance!!!) I've built many decks for less than the cost of building 1 standard deck IN PAPER, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPARABLE. Honestly, how cheap does a deck need to be for you to be happy with Wizards? Do 3 color tier 1 decks need to cost $5 in your opinion to build? I mean building a deck that you can play for free there after, and can use for about 2 years at the cost of $40 is REALLY cheap actually.

    You want a different comparison? A video game costs what $67 after tax or something. How many hours of gameplay do you get out of it? How much did you spend on that console in the first place to play the video game? By comparison, MTG Arena is much cheaper than playing video games, going out to the movies, playing paper Magic et.

    I guess the real lesson here is "Haters gonna hate." Rolleyes


    You're a ******* idiot.

    As I said... Haters gonna hate. Wink

    If you want to have an honest discussion about Arena, why can't we compare it to paper Magic? It is not an entirely separate product. It's not as though wizards develops 2 different sets of cards for Arena vs. standard. They same R&D team designing cards for paper Magic are also designing them for Arena at the same moment. If you can present a good argument as to why we shouldn't compare Arena to paper Magic I'll listen to it. Otherwise, Arena to paper Magic is the MOST comparable thing you can find, except perhaps MTGO.

    "Don't compare these two extremely similar things! Made by the exact same people whose games are almost entirely identical!" You say. Why shouldn't we?


    *Apu voice* "Haters going to hate."

    Like I said. You're an idiot.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
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