Overall strategy vs other aggro decks for WW is to get bigger creatures than oponent.
Obviously sometimes on the play the hand is so good it's just a steamroll over the oponent no matter what kind of white aggro version it is.
But if that's not the case the game is stalled and the one with more anthems and counters on creatures win. Flyers matter here as well.
Boros has Heroic Reinforcements but has to cut something for it and most of the time it's Venerated Loxodon. You can't cut 1 and 2 drops for it because the deck will be too slow then.
That said Boros is more explosive and has these 'nut draws' more often and most of the time you will be on defence. But mono W is more consistent and better at stall game. Unbreakable Formation is priceless in that kind of matchups. Getting free attack that doesn't cost you any casualities is gamebreaking in this matchup. You may want to play 3-4 copies of it in mainboard if you struggle with this matchup. Tithe Takers are rather bad in this matchup and I'd side out them for Baffling Ends. Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants is fine to side in as well but on the play - it's not impactful enough when on the draw.
If you see him pass with 4 mana untapped don't overcommit. Just go for the long game and it should be fine.
From my experience Lantern is by far my worst matchup. First it screwes with my hand throwing away my potential hate and after 3-4 turns he just locks me down. Not cool and only hope is to topdeck some artifact hate before he starts milling.
Tithe Taker didn't do well in this iteration of the deck. He's really too small and while he's overall good this deck doesn't actually value hate that much. I dropped all 4.
Added 4th Selfless Spirit. He's a beast.
3 slots left.
Leonin Arbiter I've talked about already. I don't like him that much but will give him a try.
Actually Vialing him is huge in responce to a lot of things.
Going full mana on Whir? Or maybe Chord? Fetching turn 3? Blocks Tron hard as well but works hardcasted here too.
Might be annoying vs Gifts Ungiven but would probably be burned earlier.
But cat does nothing vs Phoenix. Neither vs Dredge. Or Death's Shadow.
I don't want this deck to be good only in my local meta. I'd really like it to be decent in bigger region and that means being prepared for decks that are played in current modern metagame.
Hardcasting Leonin Arbiter isn't good enough for most meta decks.
Same with playing 4 maindeck Leonin Relic-Warders. 2/2 main/side is fine, add in 2 Stony Silence and the artifact hate is strong enough. I may find 1 more slot for Kataki, War's Wage. Remorseful Cleric might be strong though. Maindeck GY hate paired with 2/1 flying for 2 mana is something that might be good enough for this deck especially with so many graveyard-matters decks running around.
Other card I considered is Jötun Grunt.
I just don't think it's proper meta for this kind of deck to shine and my work to make it competitive is a waste. Too much unfair stuff running around. If White has to keep up with this type of metagame it has to do something unfair as well and the best way to do so in my opinion is in D&T shell.
Maybe should just go Mono W Humans.
But I can't help it. I love fair creature decks and this deck is so fun! That is until it hits Lantern. Or mono R prison. Or Dredge, Phoenix, any tribal deck...
Will try Settle the Wreckage as my Wrath of God of choice. Exiling Phoenixes, Dredge creatures or everything Hollow One has may give some edge to play vs this unfairness.
Played Legacy Soldier Stompy some time ago and boy did turn 1 Chalice of the Void or any Thalia was satisfying. I wish there was some more turn 1 acceleration in modern :/
If you want to just play BO1 with this deck then go for massive amount of 1-drops and 16 lands. Having that many lands gives you over 80% that you will get 2-4 lands in opening hand. Knowing that Venerated Loxodon should be your main goal to obtain for that kind of deck. Rustwing Falcon is good enough to add as another 1-drop.
I've been playing with my deck lately and it's starting to feel bad actually. It can't keep up with other aggro decks and can't kill controls and prisons fast enough from my experience.
Played vs Lantern Control 3 times, didn't win a single match. Answers did not come early enough and after turn ~4 they just lock me down.
Played vs Storm again, after SB opp kill all my threats and floods with Empty the Warrens.
Played vs mono R prison, double Ensnaring Bridge is way too hard to beat. And Chandra, Torch of Defiance is so strong...
Played vs Spirits. He had bigger creatures and just flew over my head.
Played vs Mardu Pyromancer - was hard but I won. He wasn't playing good though. He didn't know Tithe Taker taxes on fetchlands. He trades 1 for 1 with spells for my threats giving himself tokens and has Lingering Souls vs my Spectral Procession.
Played vs Phoenix. TiT bouncing everything is stupid. This is most disgusting deck I've seen in a long time.
Played vs Bant Toolbox. Spell Quellers and Deputy of Detentions being searched from Chord of Calling or Collected Company ruins this deck. Guy ate my 2 Wilt-Leaf Lieges after blockers were declared with Deputy and wiped my board hard.
Not a single game felt good. Deck does its thing consistently but it does it too slow for current modern metagame.
Tithe Taker is cool and might catch by surprise some players that doesn't know what activated abilities are. Most of the time though he was a little bigger Doomed Traveler. Didn't play him vs control decks though. I see his potential to be good... But he wasn't so far. He's very useful in standard though and screwes up reactive decks here so I wanna give him a try.
4th Selfless Spirit seems like a good idea, he overperforms quite a lot of times. I'll try to get one more.
Maybe deck needs some more taxing/hate. Leonin Arbiter is a thing but he's way better from Aether Vial. I'd lean towards Ethersworn Canonist or Spirit of the Labyrinth more.
@Bowen
The problem with lifegain mono W is that you don't have enough payoffs for gaining so much life and your creatures aren't that threatetning by themselves. Before rotation there was Crested Sunmare beside Ajani's Pridemate and he was real deal in this deck. If I would go for this type of deck it would have more grindy midrange approach with Divine Visitation, Dawn of Hope and bunch of token makers instead of full aggro.
I've tried Suncleanser in sideboard and he was cute. He did stop some cards you've mentioned but that's all. The thing is Baffling End does the job better and gets rid of far more threats. He was cool during Kaladesh standard because he stopped energy decks. Now there isn't much reason to keep him.
I tried different splashes but like mono white the best. I don't think Deputy is particularly strong outside of the mirror match. Counterspells also seem like a trap to me.
Yeah, that's my thoughts as well after some testing on MTGA. Mono W still feels the best.
I went with the idea of moving 2 copies of Adanto Vanguard from main to SB and it worked well for now. 4 copies must be in 75 as the vampire is great vs control and Drakes but not so good vs other aggro decks as it's purely offensive creature. Tithe Taker also was great, mainly vs mono U taxing their counterspells and Flash creatures also being an ******** vs boardwipes on control and Gates matchups. I can't imagine playing less than 4.
Also I've maindecked 2 Unbreakable Formations. This card really overperformed in my games on MTGA and during Standard Showdowns. I had to experience its impact to change my opinion about that card.
Only thing is lack of strong options vs Nexus but as it's not as popular as before I don't feel any need to do so. If it would become popular I'd probably go for U splash for Negates.
I don't think going 4 Ajanis is good idea. Never got more than 2 copies in hand but it isn't that easy to consistantly cast 4 mana spell on curve with 20-21 lands. Especially while most of my games end up with me having ~3 lands. Or being screwed. Or flooding but then I don't have enough creatures on board and Ajani needs creatures on board. Plus your deck doesn't have enough flyers to defend him from mono U, Drakes or Krasis. I don't sideboard him that often as pre RNA. 3 is enough because he's still crucial in matchups where you have to outvalue opponents creatures but I can live without him.
Fifth place at Star City Games Classic Dallas with Mono-W
No History of Benalia in this deck? Wow. I'm really curious about this decision. I believe this card is one of the main reasons to play this deck and I wouldn't even dream about cutting it from the list.
Also 1st and 2nd place of SCG Classic is literally mono W with U splash for sideboard. Not playing mainboard Deputy of Detention is in my opinion proper as it's not agressive enough and flexible to be played like that.
Apparently Pride of Conquerors isn't good enough anymore to be played. I think this card is decent enough to be played as 1-of mainboard as a combat trick and occasionally living through -x/-x wipes of Sultai but maybe simply Negate does the job better. I think this is the list I like most although I'd switch Skymarcher Aspirants for Tithe Takers at least in some numbers.
The mono W maindeck already is (and was) strong by itself and only thing to optimize was sideboard. As hard as I love mono W version I have to admit that these Negates may be the thing this deck needed to be huge and splashing U just to get these is just enough.
I'm also surprised Unbreakable Formation is played maindeck so much... And how it's used? I maybe should give this card another try.
Are you kidding? Unbreakable Formation seems nuts to me. Counters plus a free attack where I can't lose anything and don't even tap stuff (except to Settle).
This free attack matters only vs creature decks and only when the board state is even. On defence Make a Stand is better. It may prove to be a surprise factor during attack after blockers are declared as well. With Unbreakable Formation opponent already knows what he's facing and he can arrange blockers properly. In every other scenario it's the same spell.
Are counters and vigilance really worth it? To me Make a Stand is just more flexible and all around better card.
My creature picks are purely anti mono R as there are a lot of them in my local meta but honestly the choice of 1 and 2 drops comes down to personal preference. I'm torn between Snubhorn Sentry and Skymarcher Aspirant though. Dinosaur is the biggest possible one drop, even though it's not that agressive, but on the other hand the pure pressure vampire provides, as well as reach later on, proved to be crucial quite often. Demystify is surprisingly good against mono U and Nexus but it's still underwhelming choice and I'd prefer to find some other answer to the latter. Nexus is hardest matchup for me but mono W doesn't have many answers to this deck so destroying Wilderness Reclamation at instant speed is just great.
So tommorow we're doing locally some small Legacy proxy tournament and, as I love White Weenie decks, I decided to play Soldier Stompy. I don't have any experience with the deck so I figured I'd use some help with deckbuilding and advices regarding gameplay. Here's my list right now:
I'm surprised this thread is dead (no pun intended).
After rise of Azorius variant with Deputy of Detention and counterspells in side it has become dominant version of White Weenie. In my opinion this is just wrong - Deputy is better tempo-wise but way less consistent as it's not enchantment and both mono W and Boros versions have their tools against control and combo as well (well, maybe mono W has worse).
Also Unbreakable Formation - I don't really know why all of a sudden ppl are playing this card when Make a Stand was around here for a long time already...
What are your thoughts - what is your favourite version of WW?
"Given that I am playing white / GREEN, we have remarkably similar decks.
Switch the Tithe Takers to Gaddocks, Switch the landbase to support green, and (horizon canopies) and they are the same."
Yeah, well, I copied it from your list as I believe you've tested it enough and it is refined enough and trully I like it a lot Except Legion's Landing there aren't much better picks for 1-drops IMO. I'm also sceptical about Isamaru but didn't find any better substitute right now. I like Judge's Familiar a lot and may give the bird a try next friday as 2 or 3-of. Was thinking for some time about reducing land count to 21 and Windbrisk Heights to 2 in favor of +1 Plains (it happens to slow me down quite a lot if I see it on opening hand) so 3 birds could find their spot.
WSC is some idea as Grixis is becoming a thing again. I prefer not to play him main deck though, I didn't like him that much. If Takers won't work I'll think about swapping them.
4th Spirit is an idea as well.
Emmara is cool to crew Copter... Precint Captain with the possibility of opponent doing stuff like turn 2 Angler a 2/2 isn't that dangerous and it won't trigger that often. I played him in Penny Dreadful and he wasn't shining that much.
Tithe Taker doeesn't seems as goodd as Grand Abolisher, and that one ddoesn't see much play but might be worth trying
Unlike Abolisher, Taker leaves a flying body which makes him better against removal. This is big advantage making him better all around card and maindeckable material while Abolisher is just heavy taxer that doesn't fit vs all decks. I'd rather say that he's weaker Voice of Resurgence and would make comparisons to this card. And we all know how strong Voice is.
BTW I had some testing vs Grixis Death's Shadow and had 3 WLL's. That was magnificent
---
Next week I'm going for a bigger Modern tournament and I want to pilot this deck:
I think this deck is settled for me already. Only thing to test is Tithe Takers, but I'm confident about this guy, and the amount of Leonin Relic-Warders.
After some thinking I decided to drop Gideon of the Trials. +1 never proved relevant, his 4/4 body was used maybe once to push enemy, and his emblem was irrelevant in games I played. Sure, it wins against some decks, that are niche at this moment, but most of the time it just stops other decks for 1 turn and nothing else. I thought it could be great vs combo decks, especially when I have Kytheon, but he isn't flipping that often unfortunately.
Only thing I consider is playing with Ethersworn Canonists - 2 in main in the spot of 1 Tithe Taker and 1 Leonin Relic-Warder and 2 in side instead of Mirran Crusaders.
Also SB is something to think about yet. Martyr of Sands was more playable than Kor Firewalker in more matchups and it fills the same role. I want to find something better than Mirran Crusader as his prot G was never that useful - maybe Canonists, maybe Wrath of God, maybe Paladin en-Vec/Fiendslayer Paladin (prolly 1st is better) or maybe something else. Any ideas?
"Only Selfless Spirit is a top tier, premium card. Selfless protects the entire team, and has an evasion ability that can be used immediately. That is what I mean.
All the other cards above are individuals that might have a group effect on some later turn."
I'd say all the other cards are interchangable depending on metagame. Ethersworn Canonist, Leonin Relic-Warder, White Shield Crusader etc. should be put into the deck depending on what's being played.
That's also why I believe Tithe Taker would be decent. He hurts reactive decks and he's resilient. Not many hatebears leave a flying body after they die. I really like him.
"Ethersworn Canonist can be a completely unreasonable card, against the right decks.
Same with WS Crusader, (Think Death Shadow), but the difference is that the pump knight can be an evasive killer. Unfortunately, I just don't need his ability enough at the moment. Maybe I am just not playing against control enough."
I think that Canonist is actually very reasonable choice with Izzet Phoenix being hot deck right now. White Shield Crusader can be maindeckable if Death's Shadow or Rock emerges big. Phyrexian Revoker can screw up f.e. Abzan Company, any Aether Vial deck, all parts of Lantern Control, etc. But maybe Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass may prove better.
Maybe I could even consider playing Remorseful Cleric if some GY decks would be prevalent. If he doesn't have use he's still 2/1 flyer for 2. Better than 2/2 without flying I think.
Other than that Knight of the Holy Nimbus was something I considered to test.
Those cards could be sideboarded for other specific hate cards. That's what White based aggro decks do best - put pressure having some innate hate that can be easly adapted depending on what opponent is playing. I think that, other than putting some hard and consistent beats, this attribute of White should be abused used when building this deck.
"Since you guys are only playing White, have you thought about Leonin Arbiter?
LeoA interferes pretty regularly with all sorts of decks.
Path to Exile becomes better too."
Yeah, I thought about him.
He isn't that impressive if just hardcasted. Very easy to play around if just sitting like duck and not GQ'ing their lands.
His power comes from Vialing it making enemy lose 1 life and sac his own land.
He can annoy CoCo decks, Tron and... What else cares about searching it's own library that doesn't have a removal nowadays?
Putting him in deck turns off Flagstones. This in turn makes WWW cards harder to cast with 4 GQ's in deck. And playing Leo without GQ is heresy.
So it makes deck better vs Tron but worse vs rest if you play with GQ because it taxes on deck's flexibility. And without GQ it's really not that much better vs Tron than the current version.
All's theory because I didn't try him in this deck. But thought about it and I don't like him. I prefer Flagstones + GQ package and some other threat instead of him.
1st match vs Izzet Phoenix, lost 0:2
Both games he had perfect hand. In 1st he had flipped Thing and 2 phoenixes in turn 4. My turn 1 Dryad didn't help much.
Game 2 he pulled 2x Anger of the Gods. That sucked so hard. His 2 Crackling Drakes eventually wrecked me. 2 Dryads didn't help here neither as Drakes get power from exiled spells too... So fair.
Overall I think this deck is way too busted and even though I have maindeck Thalia and Dryad it wasn't enough to stop him - it simply does too much and does it at least good. I think it's time to play 2 maindeck Ethersworn Canonists.
2nd match vs Storm, won 2:1
The same guy as before, this time I ended up victorious.
Game 1 Dryad + little Thalia was enough for him to anything.
Game 2 I got 2 Martyrs and both gained me 15 life each. Still wasn't enough as opponent got 2 Goblin Electromancers and comboed for over 60 dmg. Nice!
Game 3 I don't remember, I just won. Nothing spectacular here.
3rd match vs BR Reanimator, lost 1:2. This is the deck. Literally the same list. And it would've been easly won if not for the bad luck...
Game 1 he got his Emrakul from Goryo's Vengeance on turn 3, burned me down to 1 life and with literally no board and him with no cards in hand we started topdeck wars. Eventually I got 2 lands and started to drop stuff. It worked. I won.
Game 2 same stuff, Emrakul turn 3 and beats with Bloodghast. Not much to do from my side.
Game 3 was cancer. First 26 cards I got 18 lands! I even GQ'd my own Plains to thin my deck and yet it wasn't enough, 6-7 lands from top and just single little Thalia doing beats. I had this luck that my opponent had mana screw and couldn't do much for ~3-4 turns. If only I could draw a single threat I would've been victorious. Magic of Magic. That game gave me cancer.
4th match vs mono U Tron, won 2:0
Both games went smooth, this deck was too fast for him to handle. Not much to talk about here.
OK so a lot of changes and things to try compared to the version before. Honor of the Pure sucks. A whole turn to do nothing was terrible. If it was played it either didn't matter or was a win-more. Another 2 drop would be much better. Out. Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit didn't see play even once. Sucks that tokens don't activate her. She'll sit in the deck untill she sees play. Gideon of the Trials was played in game 2 vs Phoenix and forced opponent to burn 2 spells, nothing else. He as well didn't have his time to shine but I want to give him more tries. Leonin Relic-Warder had no targets in any match. Nothing spectacular. I'm afraid to fully remove him from the deck though.
Rest of the cards did the job well. Not gonna change much. Maybe except White Shield Crusader. Still I don't have 3rd Selfless Spirit though. Totally needed.
Obviously sometimes on the play the hand is so good it's just a steamroll over the oponent no matter what kind of white aggro version it is.
But if that's not the case the game is stalled and the one with more anthems and counters on creatures win. Flyers matter here as well.
Boros has Heroic Reinforcements but has to cut something for it and most of the time it's Venerated Loxodon. You can't cut 1 and 2 drops for it because the deck will be too slow then.
That said Boros is more explosive and has these 'nut draws' more often and most of the time you will be on defence. But mono W is more consistent and better at stall game. Unbreakable Formation is priceless in that kind of matchups. Getting free attack that doesn't cost you any casualities is gamebreaking in this matchup. You may want to play 3-4 copies of it in mainboard if you struggle with this matchup. Tithe Takers are rather bad in this matchup and I'd side out them for Baffling Ends. Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants is fine to side in as well but on the play - it's not impactful enough when on the draw.
If you see him pass with 4 mana untapped don't overcommit. Just go for the long game and it should be fine.
Tithe Taker didn't do well in this iteration of the deck. He's really too small and while he's overall good this deck doesn't actually value hate that much. I dropped all 4.
Added 4th Selfless Spirit. He's a beast.
3 slots left.
Leonin Arbiter I've talked about already. I don't like him that much but will give him a try.
Actually Vialing him is huge in responce to a lot of things.
Going full mana on Whir? Or maybe Chord? Fetching turn 3? Blocks Tron hard as well but works hardcasted here too.
Might be annoying vs Gifts Ungiven but would probably be burned earlier.
But cat does nothing vs Phoenix. Neither vs Dredge. Or Death's Shadow.
I don't want this deck to be good only in my local meta. I'd really like it to be decent in bigger region and that means being prepared for decks that are played in current modern metagame.
Hardcasting Leonin Arbiter isn't good enough for most meta decks.
Same with playing 4 maindeck Leonin Relic-Warders. 2/2 main/side is fine, add in 2 Stony Silence and the artifact hate is strong enough. I may find 1 more slot for Kataki, War's Wage.
Remorseful Cleric might be strong though. Maindeck GY hate paired with 2/1 flying for 2 mana is something that might be good enough for this deck especially with so many graveyard-matters decks running around.
Other card I considered is Jötun Grunt.
I just don't think it's proper meta for this kind of deck to shine and my work to make it competitive is a waste. Too much unfair stuff running around. If White has to keep up with this type of metagame it has to do something unfair as well and the best way to do so in my opinion is in D&T shell.
Maybe should just go Mono W Humans.
But I can't help it. I love fair creature decks and this deck is so fun! That is until it hits Lantern. Or mono R prison. Or Dredge, Phoenix, any tribal deck...
Will try Settle the Wreckage as my Wrath of God of choice. Exiling Phoenixes, Dredge creatures or everything Hollow One has may give some edge to play vs this unfairness.
@WotC ban Gut Shot please :/
Leyline of Sanctity helps vs decks with distruption, yes. But doesn't stop Bridge. They just Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek themselves. They target any player. So it's not a solution.
***
Played Legacy Soldier Stompy some time ago and boy did turn 1 Chalice of the Void or any Thalia was satisfying. I wish there was some more turn 1 acceleration in modern :/
Charge was cool in Pauper and I can agree it's decent idea, though I'd go for Gird for Battle. I remember some mono W decks back in GRN meta going 5-0 on MTGO going full on cheap flyers (running also Duskborne Skymarcher and Silverbeak Griffin) with this spell. It could work on BO1 though vs abundance of mono R might not be that good. Sample deck that did some noticable result looked like this. This list might be good base for you to brew with.
Played vs Lantern Control 3 times, didn't win a single match. Answers did not come early enough and after turn ~4 they just lock me down.
Played vs Storm again, after SB opp kill all my threats and floods with Empty the Warrens.
Played vs mono R prison, double Ensnaring Bridge is way too hard to beat. And Chandra, Torch of Defiance is so strong...
Played vs Spirits. He had bigger creatures and just flew over my head.
Played vs Mardu Pyromancer - was hard but I won. He wasn't playing good though. He didn't know Tithe Taker taxes on fetchlands. He trades 1 for 1 with spells for my threats giving himself tokens and has Lingering Souls vs my Spectral Procession.
Played vs Phoenix. TiT bouncing everything is stupid. This is most disgusting deck I've seen in a long time.
Played vs Bant Toolbox. Spell Quellers and Deputy of Detentions being searched from Chord of Calling or Collected Company ruins this deck. Guy ate my 2 Wilt-Leaf Lieges after blockers were declared with Deputy and wiped my board hard.
Not a single game felt good. Deck does its thing consistently but it does it too slow for current modern metagame.
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Tithe Taker
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
6-drop (4)
4x Spectral Procession
2x Martyr of Sands
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
2x Stony Silence
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Tithe Taker is cool and might catch by surprise some players that doesn't know what activated abilities are. Most of the time though he was a little bigger Doomed Traveler. Didn't play him vs control decks though. I see his potential to be good... But he wasn't so far. He's very useful in standard though and screwes up reactive decks here so I wanna give him a try.
4th Selfless Spirit seems like a good idea, he overperforms quite a lot of times. I'll try to get one more.
Maybe deck needs some more taxing/hate. Leonin Arbiter is a thing but he's way better from Aether Vial. I'd lean towards Ethersworn Canonist or Spirit of the Labyrinth more.
The problem with lifegain mono W is that you don't have enough payoffs for gaining so much life and your creatures aren't that threatetning by themselves. Before rotation there was Crested Sunmare beside Ajani's Pridemate and he was real deal in this deck. If I would go for this type of deck it would have more grindy midrange approach with Divine Visitation, Dawn of Hope and bunch of token makers instead of full aggro.
If you want to play Ajani's Welcome I'd rather go with Fountain of Renewal.
Also running so many 1-drops seems like a bad idea if they are not getting pumped soon so lack of Benalish Marshal and, especially, Venerated Loxodon hurts a lot. White has a lot of decent 2-drops like Adanto Vanguard, Knight of Grace, Silverbeak Griffin or Sunhome Stalwart. I'd change some of the 1-drops for one of these.
I've tried Suncleanser in sideboard and he was cute. He did stop some cards you've mentioned but that's all. The thing is Baffling End does the job better and gets rid of far more threats. He was cool during Kaladesh standard because he stopped energy decks. Now there isn't much reason to keep him.
Yeah, that's my thoughts as well after some testing on MTGA. Mono W still feels the best.
4 Dauntless Bodyguard
2 Hunted Witness
2 Skymarcher Aspirant
4 Snubhorn Sentry
2 Adanto Vanguard
4 Tithe Taker
4 Benalish Marshal
4 Venerated Loxodon
4 History of Benalia
2 Unbreakable Formation
4 Conclave Tribunal
2 Demystify
2 Adanto Vanguard
4 Baffling End
4 Tocatli Honor Guard
3 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants
I went with the idea of moving 2 copies of Adanto Vanguard from main to SB and it worked well for now. 4 copies must be in 75 as the vampire is great vs control and Drakes but not so good vs other aggro decks as it's purely offensive creature.
Tithe Taker also was great, mainly vs mono U taxing their counterspells and Flash creatures also being an ******** vs boardwipes on control and Gates matchups. I can't imagine playing less than 4.
Also I've maindecked 2 Unbreakable Formations. This card really overperformed in my games on MTGA and during Standard Showdowns. I had to experience its impact to change my opinion about that card.
Only thing is lack of strong options vs Nexus but as it's not as popular as before I don't feel any need to do so. If it would become popular I'd probably go for U splash for Negates.
I don't think going 4 Ajanis is good idea. Never got more than 2 copies in hand but it isn't that easy to consistantly cast 4 mana spell on curve with 20-21 lands. Especially while most of my games end up with me having ~3 lands. Or being screwed. Or flooding but then I don't have enough creatures on board and Ajani needs creatures on board. Plus your deck doesn't have enough flyers to defend him from mono U, Drakes or Krasis. I don't sideboard him that often as pre RNA. 3 is enough because he's still crucial in matchups where you have to outvalue opponents creatures but I can live without him.
No History of Benalia in this deck? Wow. I'm really curious about this decision. I believe this card is one of the main reasons to play this deck and I wouldn't even dream about cutting it from the list.
Also 1st and 2nd place of SCG Classic is literally mono W with U splash for sideboard. Not playing mainboard Deputy of Detention is in my opinion proper as it's not agressive enough and flexible to be played like that.
Apparently Pride of Conquerors isn't good enough anymore to be played. I think this card is decent enough to be played as 1-of mainboard as a combat trick and occasionally living through -x/-x wipes of Sultai but maybe simply Negate does the job better.
I think this is the list I like most although I'd switch Skymarcher Aspirants for Tithe Takers at least in some numbers.
The mono W maindeck already is (and was) strong by itself and only thing to optimize was sideboard. As hard as I love mono W version I have to admit that these Negates may be the thing this deck needed to be huge and splashing U just to get these is just enough.
I'm also surprised Unbreakable Formation is played maindeck so much... And how it's used? I maybe should give this card another try.
This free attack matters only vs creature decks and only when the board state is even. On defence Make a Stand is better. It may prove to be a surprise factor during attack after blockers are declared as well. With Unbreakable Formation opponent already knows what he's facing and he can arrange blockers properly. In every other scenario it's the same spell.
Are counters and vigilance really worth it? To me Make a Stand is just more flexible and all around better card.
I'm still playing mono W. It looks now like this:
4 Dauntless Bodyguard
2 Hunted Witness
4 Snubhorn Sentry
4 Adanto Vanguard
4 Tithe Taker
4 Benalish Marshal
4 Venerated Loxodon
1 Pride of Conquerors
4 History of Benalia
1 Make a Stand
4 Conclave Tribunal
2 Demystify
3 Baffling End
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Tocatli Honor Guard
1 Make a Stand
3 Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants
My creature picks are purely anti mono R as there are a lot of them in my local meta but honestly the choice of 1 and 2 drops comes down to personal preference. I'm torn between Snubhorn Sentry and Skymarcher Aspirant though. Dinosaur is the biggest possible one drop, even though it's not that agressive, but on the other hand the pure pressure vampire provides, as well as reach later on, proved to be crucial quite often.
Demystify is surprisingly good against mono U and Nexus but it's still underwhelming choice and I'd prefer to find some other answer to the latter. Nexus is hardest matchup for me but mono W doesn't have many answers to this deck so destroying Wilderness Reclamation at instant speed is just great.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
7 Plains
4 Chrome Mox
Creatures
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Militia Bugler
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Preeminent Captain
3 Palace Jailer
2 Daru Warchief
2 Captain of the Watch
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Counsil's Judgement
2 Damping Matrix
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Armageddon
1 Baird, Steward of Argive
1 Gideon's Intervention
Is that proper list or is there something to upgrade? All advices are highly appreciated.
After rise of Azorius variant with Deputy of Detention and counterspells in side it has become dominant version of White Weenie. In my opinion this is just wrong - Deputy is better tempo-wise but way less consistent as it's not enchantment and both mono W and Boros versions have their tools against control and combo as well (well, maybe mono W has worse).
Also Unbreakable Formation - I don't really know why all of a sudden ppl are playing this card when Make a Stand was around here for a long time already...
What are your thoughts - what is your favourite version of WW?
Switch the Tithe Takers to Gaddocks, Switch the landbase to support green, and (horizon canopies) and they are the same."
Yeah, well, I copied it from your list as I believe you've tested it enough and it is refined enough and trully I like it a lot Except Legion's Landing there aren't much better picks for 1-drops IMO. I'm also sceptical about Isamaru but didn't find any better substitute right now. I like Judge's Familiar a lot and may give the bird a try next friday as 2 or 3-of. Was thinking for some time about reducing land count to 21 and Windbrisk Heights to 2 in favor of +1 Plains (it happens to slow me down quite a lot if I see it on opening hand) so 3 birds could find their spot.
WSC is some idea as Grixis is becoming a thing again. I prefer not to play him main deck though, I didn't like him that much. If Takers won't work I'll think about swapping them.
4th Spirit is an idea as well.
Emmara is cool to crew Copter...
Precint Captain with the possibility of opponent doing stuff like turn 2 Angler a 2/2 isn't that dangerous and it won't trigger that often. I played him in Penny Dreadful and he wasn't shining that much.
Unlike Abolisher, Taker leaves a flying body which makes him better against removal. This is big advantage making him better all around card and maindeckable material while Abolisher is just heavy taxer that doesn't fit vs all decks. I'd rather say that he's weaker Voice of Resurgence and would make comparisons to this card. And we all know how strong Voice is.
BTW I had some testing vs Grixis Death's Shadow and had 3 WLL's. That was magnificent
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Next week I'm going for a bigger Modern tournament and I want to pilot this deck:
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1-drops (13)
4x Dryad Militant
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
3x Leonin Relic-Warder
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Tithe Taker
3-drops (6)
4x Benalish Marshal
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4-drops (3)
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
6-drop (4)
4x Spectral Procession
2x Martyr of Sands
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stillmoon Cavalier
2x Stony Silence
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
I think this deck is settled for me already. Only thing to test is Tithe Takers, but I'm confident about this guy, and the amount of Leonin Relic-Warders.
After some thinking I decided to drop Gideon of the Trials. +1 never proved relevant, his 4/4 body was used maybe once to push enemy, and his emblem was irrelevant in games I played. Sure, it wins against some decks, that are niche at this moment, but most of the time it just stops other decks for 1 turn and nothing else. I thought it could be great vs combo decks, especially when I have Kytheon, but he isn't flipping that often unfortunately.
Only thing I consider is playing with Ethersworn Canonists - 2 in main in the spot of 1 Tithe Taker and 1 Leonin Relic-Warder and 2 in side instead of Mirran Crusaders.
Also SB is something to think about yet. Martyr of Sands was more playable than Kor Firewalker in more matchups and it fills the same role. I want to find something better than Mirran Crusader as his prot G was never that useful - maybe Canonists, maybe Wrath of God, maybe Paladin en-Vec/Fiendslayer Paladin (prolly 1st is better) or maybe something else. Any ideas?
All the other cards above are individuals that might have a group effect on some later turn."
I'd say all the other cards are interchangable depending on metagame. Ethersworn Canonist, Leonin Relic-Warder, White Shield Crusader etc. should be put into the deck depending on what's being played.
That's also why I believe Tithe Taker would be decent. He hurts reactive decks and he's resilient. Not many hatebears leave a flying body after they die. I really like him.
"Ethersworn Canonist can be a completely unreasonable card, against the right decks.
Same with WS Crusader, (Think Death Shadow), but the difference is that the pump knight can be an evasive killer. Unfortunately, I just don't need his ability enough at the moment. Maybe I am just not playing against control enough."
I think that Canonist is actually very reasonable choice with Izzet Phoenix being hot deck right now.
White Shield Crusader can be maindeckable if Death's Shadow or Rock emerges big.
Phyrexian Revoker can screw up f.e. Abzan Company, any Aether Vial deck, all parts of Lantern Control, etc. But maybe Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass may prove better.
Maybe I could even consider playing Remorseful Cleric if some GY decks would be prevalent. If he doesn't have use he's still 2/1 flyer for 2. Better than 2/2 without flying I think.
Other than that Knight of the Holy Nimbus was something I considered to test.
Those cards could be sideboarded for other specific hate cards. That's what White based aggro decks do best - put pressure having some innate hate that can be easly adapted depending on what opponent is playing. I think that, other than putting some hard and consistent beats, this attribute of White should be abused used when building this deck.
"Since you guys are only playing White, have you thought about Leonin Arbiter?
LeoA interferes pretty regularly with all sorts of decks.
Path to Exile becomes better too."
Yeah, I thought about him.
He isn't that impressive if just hardcasted. Very easy to play around if just sitting like duck and not GQ'ing their lands.
His power comes from Vialing it making enemy lose 1 life and sac his own land.
He can annoy CoCo decks, Tron and... What else cares about searching it's own library that doesn't have a removal nowadays?
Putting him in deck turns off Flagstones. This in turn makes WWW cards harder to cast with 4 GQ's in deck. And playing Leo without GQ is heresy.
So it makes deck better vs Tron but worse vs rest if you play with GQ because it taxes on deck's flexibility. And without GQ it's really not that much better vs Tron than the current version.
All's theory because I didn't try him in this deck. But thought about it and I don't like him. I prefer Flagstones + GQ package and some other threat instead of him.
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Legion's Landing
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Selfless Spirit
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x White Shield Crusader
1x Gideon of the Trials
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Honor of the Pure
4x Spectral Procession
1x Eiganjo Castle
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
8x Plains
2x Shefet Dunes
3x Windbrisk Heights
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Martyr of Sands
2x Mirran Crusader
4x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Stillmoon Cavalier
1x Stony Silence
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathat
1st match vs Izzet Phoenix, lost 0:2
Both games he had perfect hand. In 1st he had flipped Thing and 2 phoenixes in turn 4. My turn 1 Dryad didn't help much.
Game 2 he pulled 2x Anger of the Gods. That sucked so hard. His 2 Crackling Drakes eventually wrecked me. 2 Dryads didn't help here neither as Drakes get power from exiled spells too... So fair.
Overall I think this deck is way too busted and even though I have maindeck Thalia and Dryad it wasn't enough to stop him - it simply does too much and does it at least good. I think it's time to play 2 maindeck Ethersworn Canonists.
2nd match vs Storm, won 2:1
The same guy as before, this time I ended up victorious.
Game 1 Dryad + little Thalia was enough for him to anything.
Game 2 I got 2 Martyrs and both gained me 15 life each. Still wasn't enough as opponent got 2 Goblin Electromancers and comboed for over 60 dmg. Nice!
Game 3 I don't remember, I just won. Nothing spectacular here.
3rd match vs BR Reanimator, lost 1:2.
This is the deck. Literally the same list. And it would've been easly won if not for the bad luck...
Game 1 he got his Emrakul from Goryo's Vengeance on turn 3, burned me down to 1 life and with literally no board and him with no cards in hand we started topdeck wars. Eventually I got 2 lands and started to drop stuff. It worked. I won.
Game 2 same stuff, Emrakul turn 3 and beats with Bloodghast. Not much to do from my side.
Game 3 was cancer. First 26 cards I got 18 lands! I even GQ'd my own Plains to thin my deck and yet it wasn't enough, 6-7 lands from top and just single little Thalia doing beats. I had this luck that my opponent had mana screw and couldn't do much for ~3-4 turns. If only I could draw a single threat I would've been victorious. Magic of Magic. That game gave me cancer.
4th match vs mono U Tron, won 2:0
Both games went smooth, this deck was too fast for him to handle. Not much to talk about here.
OK so a lot of changes and things to try compared to the version before.
Honor of the Pure sucks. A whole turn to do nothing was terrible. If it was played it either didn't matter or was a win-more. Another 2 drop would be much better. Out.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit didn't see play even once. Sucks that tokens don't activate her. She'll sit in the deck untill she sees play.
Gideon of the Trials was played in game 2 vs Phoenix and forced opponent to burn 2 spells, nothing else. He as well didn't have his time to shine but I want to give him more tries.
Leonin Relic-Warder had no targets in any match. Nothing spectacular. I'm afraid to fully remove him from the deck though.
Rest of the cards did the job well. Not gonna change much. Maybe except White Shield Crusader. Still I don't have 3rd Selfless Spirit though. Totally needed.
Next time I will try -2 Honor of the Pure, -1 White Shield Crusader, +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Selfless Spirit
Probably will swap Martyr of Sands for Kor Firewalker.