OK... have been playing around with this alternative build for a bit and was able to squeeze in a few games after my FNM last night. My last round opponent had an Emeria deck that he had never played before, but this mill version dominated it pretty hard right out of the gates:
(sorry about the deck formatting - not quite sure how to do that?)
4x Archive Trap
2x Cast Down
1x Engulf the Shore
3x Fatal Push
2x Mission Briefing
3x Remand
2x Trapmaker's Snare
2x Winds of Rebuke
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Darkslick Shores
1x Drowned Catacomb
4x Field of Ruin
3x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Swamp
3x Watery Grave
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Collective Brutality
2x Damnation
4x Day's Undoing
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable
Basically, I was coming from how often I simply run out of gas with mill more than anything. So the primary goal here is to have a Leyline opener - the Crypts are a backup to that. Do what you can, hopefully bleed 20-30 cards out and kill as much of the board as possible. Then Day's Undoing to refuel. You get your full deck back (more mill spells back in the library) while your opponent's library is down whatever has been milled thanks to removing the graveyard one way or another. They draw a fresh 7 and reset with a 20-30 card library. If you stave off firing a Day's until turn 5 or 6, it's plausible to cast your reset and still have mana available for a Remand or other option. Having 6 mana on your "first turn" after the reset raises the chance of Glimpse > Briefing > Glimpse.
This first "live trial" felt pretty good and got some good conversations going after. Greatly improves options over the non-Surgical heavy builds against things like Dredge and RB Arclight due to the Leylines in the main. Kills any lifegain options from Crypt or Momento, so things like Burn I expect to be harder...
Any thoughts/feedback/insights?
I've found Spirits to be a very tough matchup for my UB deck - Yamar, how do you do it? Spell Queller wrecks me so hard, stomping out my mill spells and Fatal pushes (or bridges when I try to land them), then flying over my head. It might just be that she knows how to play spirits vs UB Mill because of our regular matchups, but I feel it's tight but definitely unfavoured for me.
Well, I've played the match at my local FNM 3 times in the last month and have gone 3-0 against it (once 2-0, twice 2-1). For reference, I'm playing the Jason Chung build at the moment and plan to start tweaking it a bit this week. My primary strategy is to get rid of the Quellers first and foremost by Extraction means in game 1. This absorbs any chance countering as they don't usually main other options. To me it's just as important as bleeding out the Meddling Mages in the Humans matchup. After that, landing a Bridge and/or a nice Incursion generally will buy enough time to take them out.
Post SB, we get other removal options - I find Night of Souls' Betrayal to be vastly underrated in this and many other matchups post-board - and the board wipe, but mostly it's just plowing thru the important creatures - get rid of Drogskol and Quellers as you can to free things up and keep hexproof off the table.
I know I've been a bit lucky, but the last game was against one of our most seasoned pilots and that was the 2-0. I got lucky with a topdeck Damnation and the following turn he tapped out for a CoCo and I responded with a massive Incursion. Sometimes it just goes that way...
If you have a list for your current UW list, can you post or send it to me? Curious as to what type of build you're working with.
I've found the same... playing against Phoenix and Storm are relatively easy matches. Spirits - both UW and Bant - have not given me issues either. Humans seems to come down more to finding a quick Bridge and/or them not using a Mage to lock us off of it. Only decks that have given me trouble in the last 3 weeks are BG/Rock/Jund builds and hyper-aggro decks like Goblins/8-Whack and Infect. Been thinking of adding in another mass removal option or two for helping those like a Ritual of Soot or such.
But I had forgotten how much fun it is to play mill. And this new build even feels/is competitive against many Tier decks at this point.
Alright... so have been playing mill off and on for some time and took this new "Extraction heavy" build for a ride last night for FNM. Had a great time with it and definitely felt Mission Briefing was a LOT better in this shell than any other I've seen/tried.
Big question I run into is what to do against BGx decks. In my meta, it's mostly straight BG or traditional Jund builds. Not sure what the real strategy here - haven't found a real solution as of yet. Extraction didn't seem a solid solution as the threats are so diversified. May be that it's a bad match for mill on the whole... every deck strategy has at least one...
I'd agree that Elves is a bit tricky, but found Titanshift to not be all that bad (beat it in back to back rounds this past week at FNM against a pair of solid experienced pilots). Keys seemed to be holding a Queller to pin down a Scapeshift while going just wide enough to apply a clock. Mausoleum Wanderers (especially once buffed by a lord or two) also kept things pretty solidly in check. I went 3-0-1 on the night with a pretty standard UW build, splitting prizes with Merfolk in the finals but losing 2-1 as we played out the match. I got a bit screwed in the third game - pinched on two lands and one vial where he had a pretty extensive board.
While the card draw is nice, I've always considered the "combo" to be the interaction between the Bridge wanting you to have as few cards in hand as possible and the Dragon saying "discard your hand". Guarantees that you'll have no cards in hand going into your opponent's turn. A similar option is Bottled Cloister, but doing so means you CAN'T play on your opponent's turn - like no casting Boil on their end step. If you're OK with that, the artifact can/could be an alternate option.
As far as the "first to 2 wins" question goes, I believe that is true. If both players are mulling and want to "reset" to 7 card hands, you can technically do it - game just goes down as an agreed draw and the match usually gets recorded as 2-1-1 (or 2-0-1). It's the most common version of 4 game matches, although you can have a simultaneous death scenario (where one effect kills both players or both die during the same combat damage step) as well.
Alrighty... first time poster, reasonably long time reader (although definitely not as entrenched as many of y'all).
While I tend to bounce around a great many decks/styles, I've found myself drawn to this deck - think it appeals to the many vary prisons that I've played in the past (speaking of which - JaceK... if you have an idea/rough layout/link to the enchantment deck you faced, I'd love to take a look). In any case, I've been running Pyro about the last 6 weeks at my LGS and making myself finally start writing notes on matches to try and enhance my learning. I've posted a couple of 3-1 finishes in that time, many 2-2s (when I often get paired rounds 3 & 4 against UW or Jeskai control and have a LOT of trouble with the deck).
This past week:
Round 1: VS BW homebrew
-One of our younger players. Wasn't much of a match, but did funnel out multiple lock pieces on turns 1-3 both games. About as easy and perfect as the deck can function.
Round 2: VS Bogles
-About what you'd expect. Got a bridge down G1 on turn 2 and after consulting the owner of the deck (who was playing his match next to us), conceded on turn 4. Game 2 I stalled and couldn't find another lock after a T1 Blood Moon. Slowed them down, but he drew into multiple basics and that was all she wrote. Game 3 was pretty damn funny. I mulled to 6 and kept a three land, Bridge, ritual, Spellskite hand. Play goes land for me, land > bogle for him. Land > Skite for me, Land > Seal of Primodium for him - blow up Skite, attack for 1. I draw into my 2nd Spellskite and play it turn three. He draws into his other Seal and blows it up turn 3. Ethereal Armor and attack for 2. Turn three, I drop the Bridge. Apparently those Seals were the only artifact destruction in his deck... he folds. (2-0)
Round 3: VS Bant Spirits
-This was where the deck kind of folded on me a bit. Game 1 I had a turn 2 Blood Moon and shut him down/out. He conceded around turn 5 or so after I got Chandra to back up the Moon. Game 2 I mulled to 5 and kept a reasonable hand - Moon, Bridge, SSG, ???, and one land. Figured a 2nd land or ritual and I would be in good shape. Didn't see either until turn 6 but since I died turn 5, didn't really matter. Game 3 I almost pulled out, with an Avaricious doing work in slowing the air attack. But when he finally drew into a removal spell for it, I was toast. Did not see a bridge games 2 or 3 which hurt a LOT as he was going wider and wider. (2-1)
Round 4: VS UW Control
-I get matched up against one of our resident near pro teens who has multiple IQ and PPTQ finishes. Nice. At least he's off to Berkeley now - good luck Theo! Anyway... I have a LOT of problems with this matchup. Game 1 I had a great start - turn 1 Rabble that he couldn't manage until his turn 3 which gave an early lead but I drew nothing after that and he was able to rebuild with a T2 Search for Azcanta and heading into Cryptic and Jace land. Game 2 was no contest. Turn 2 Blood Moon left him with one basic and I was able to roll right into T3 Chandra, T4 Koth. He scooped. Game 3 was about as nutty as the previous round with me getting a T2 Moon but never drawing a 3rd land so I was left to Ritual into a Koth and continue drawing in hopes of land. I emblem Koth and ping him 2 per turn, getting him down to 4 life. Then he top decks a D.Sphere, taking out the Moon. Sadly, my two lands were a Scavenger Ground and a Rumanap - no more emblem pings! Turn after that, he plays a Baneslayer Angel and works his way back into the game. I draw the third land finally, but it's too late to recover from him punching a few times with the Angel to get back in the game. (2-2)
All in all, I agree with what's been said. Sarkhan is the man, no question. Rummaging is a wonderful effect for the deck allowing to dig for needed lands, lock pieces, threat, whatever. I love how Avaricious works with Bridge - never have a hand for your opponent's turns? Great! I want to try putting a pair of trinispheres in the side... can imagine many decks where playing it turn one will buy us a LOT of time (and make several decks in my meta cry).
Big question for me is... how/what is the best line against UW/Jeskai control decks? My normal approach/hope is for a turn one or two Moon, but is there a better approach? I normally take out Chalices in this matchup as they don't seem to do much. Any help?
(sorry about the deck formatting - not quite sure how to do that?)
4x Archive Trap
2x Cast Down
1x Engulf the Shore
3x Fatal Push
2x Mission Briefing
3x Remand
2x Trapmaker's Snare
2x Winds of Rebuke
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Darkslick Shores
1x Drowned Catacomb
4x Field of Ruin
3x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Swamp
3x Watery Grave
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Collective Brutality
2x Damnation
4x Day's Undoing
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable
Sideboard (15)
2x Devour Flesh
3x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Lost Legacy
4x Negate
2x Ravenous Trap
2x Unmoored Ego
Basically, I was coming from how often I simply run out of gas with mill more than anything. So the primary goal here is to have a Leyline opener - the Crypts are a backup to that. Do what you can, hopefully bleed 20-30 cards out and kill as much of the board as possible. Then Day's Undoing to refuel. You get your full deck back (more mill spells back in the library) while your opponent's library is down whatever has been milled thanks to removing the graveyard one way or another. They draw a fresh 7 and reset with a 20-30 card library. If you stave off firing a Day's until turn 5 or 6, it's plausible to cast your reset and still have mana available for a Remand or other option. Having 6 mana on your "first turn" after the reset raises the chance of Glimpse > Briefing > Glimpse.
This first "live trial" felt pretty good and got some good conversations going after. Greatly improves options over the non-Surgical heavy builds against things like Dredge and RB Arclight due to the Leylines in the main. Kills any lifegain options from Crypt or Momento, so things like Burn I expect to be harder...
Any thoughts/feedback/insights?
Well, I've played the match at my local FNM 3 times in the last month and have gone 3-0 against it (once 2-0, twice 2-1). For reference, I'm playing the Jason Chung build at the moment and plan to start tweaking it a bit this week. My primary strategy is to get rid of the Quellers first and foremost by Extraction means in game 1. This absorbs any chance countering as they don't usually main other options. To me it's just as important as bleeding out the Meddling Mages in the Humans matchup. After that, landing a Bridge and/or a nice Incursion generally will buy enough time to take them out.
Post SB, we get other removal options - I find Night of Souls' Betrayal to be vastly underrated in this and many other matchups post-board - and the board wipe, but mostly it's just plowing thru the important creatures - get rid of Drogskol and Quellers as you can to free things up and keep hexproof off the table.
I know I've been a bit lucky, but the last game was against one of our most seasoned pilots and that was the 2-0. I got lucky with a topdeck Damnation and the following turn he tapped out for a CoCo and I responded with a massive Incursion. Sometimes it just goes that way...
If you have a list for your current UW list, can you post or send it to me? Curious as to what type of build you're working with.
But I had forgotten how much fun it is to play mill. And this new build even feels/is competitive against many Tier decks at this point.
Big question I run into is what to do against BGx decks. In my meta, it's mostly straight BG or traditional Jund builds. Not sure what the real strategy here - haven't found a real solution as of yet. Extraction didn't seem a solid solution as the threats are so diversified. May be that it's a bad match for mill on the whole... every deck strategy has at least one...
As far as the "first to 2 wins" question goes, I believe that is true. If both players are mulling and want to "reset" to 7 card hands, you can technically do it - game just goes down as an agreed draw and the match usually gets recorded as 2-1-1 (or 2-0-1). It's the most common version of 4 game matches, although you can have a simultaneous death scenario (where one effect kills both players or both die during the same combat damage step) as well.
While I tend to bounce around a great many decks/styles, I've found myself drawn to this deck - think it appeals to the many vary prisons that I've played in the past (speaking of which - JaceK... if you have an idea/rough layout/link to the enchantment deck you faced, I'd love to take a look). In any case, I've been running Pyro about the last 6 weeks at my LGS and making myself finally start writing notes on matches to try and enhance my learning. I've posted a couple of 3-1 finishes in that time, many 2-2s (when I often get paired rounds 3 & 4 against UW or Jeskai control and have a LOT of trouble with the deck).
This past week:
Round 1: VS BW homebrew
-One of our younger players. Wasn't much of a match, but did funnel out multiple lock pieces on turns 1-3 both games. About as easy and perfect as the deck can function.
Round 2: VS Bogles
-About what you'd expect. Got a bridge down G1 on turn 2 and after consulting the owner of the deck (who was playing his match next to us), conceded on turn 4. Game 2 I stalled and couldn't find another lock after a T1 Blood Moon. Slowed them down, but he drew into multiple basics and that was all she wrote. Game 3 was pretty damn funny. I mulled to 6 and kept a three land, Bridge, ritual, Spellskite hand. Play goes land for me, land > bogle for him. Land > Skite for me, Land > Seal of Primodium for him - blow up Skite, attack for 1. I draw into my 2nd Spellskite and play it turn three. He draws into his other Seal and blows it up turn 3. Ethereal Armor and attack for 2. Turn three, I drop the Bridge. Apparently those Seals were the only artifact destruction in his deck... he folds. (2-0)
Round 3: VS Bant Spirits
-This was where the deck kind of folded on me a bit. Game 1 I had a turn 2 Blood Moon and shut him down/out. He conceded around turn 5 or so after I got Chandra to back up the Moon. Game 2 I mulled to 5 and kept a reasonable hand - Moon, Bridge, SSG, ???, and one land. Figured a 2nd land or ritual and I would be in good shape. Didn't see either until turn 6 but since I died turn 5, didn't really matter. Game 3 I almost pulled out, with an Avaricious doing work in slowing the air attack. But when he finally drew into a removal spell for it, I was toast. Did not see a bridge games 2 or 3 which hurt a LOT as he was going wider and wider. (2-1)
Round 4: VS UW Control
-I get matched up against one of our resident near pro teens who has multiple IQ and PPTQ finishes. Nice. At least he's off to Berkeley now - good luck Theo! Anyway... I have a LOT of problems with this matchup. Game 1 I had a great start - turn 1 Rabble that he couldn't manage until his turn 3 which gave an early lead but I drew nothing after that and he was able to rebuild with a T2 Search for Azcanta and heading into Cryptic and Jace land. Game 2 was no contest. Turn 2 Blood Moon left him with one basic and I was able to roll right into T3 Chandra, T4 Koth. He scooped. Game 3 was about as nutty as the previous round with me getting a T2 Moon but never drawing a 3rd land so I was left to Ritual into a Koth and continue drawing in hopes of land. I emblem Koth and ping him 2 per turn, getting him down to 4 life. Then he top decks a D.Sphere, taking out the Moon. Sadly, my two lands were a Scavenger Ground and a Rumanap - no more emblem pings! Turn after that, he plays a Baneslayer Angel and works his way back into the game. I draw the third land finally, but it's too late to recover from him punching a few times with the Angel to get back in the game. (2-2)
All in all, I agree with what's been said. Sarkhan is the man, no question. Rummaging is a wonderful effect for the deck allowing to dig for needed lands, lock pieces, threat, whatever. I love how Avaricious works with Bridge - never have a hand for your opponent's turns? Great! I want to try putting a pair of trinispheres in the side... can imagine many decks where playing it turn one will buy us a LOT of time (and make several decks in my meta cry).
Big question for me is... how/what is the best line against UW/Jeskai control decks? My normal approach/hope is for a turn one or two Moon, but is there a better approach? I normally take out Chalices in this matchup as they don't seem to do much. Any help?