Isn't there a devoid card to answer it? Might cost too much to cast. I think it costs 3b
Dark Depths... The Marit Lage token is a creature token. Consuming Sinkhole targets a land creature
[such as: Mishra's Factory - Assembly-Worker]
I strongly believe if Dark Depths is too much of an issue, it would be best to splash. White Path to Exile and Blue Chain of Vapor would be good splash cards. I like Chain of Vapor more because it hits other non-land targets and the chain effect is rarely good against us, too.
Hmmm, legacy’s price issues seems to be affecting a lot of players the same way. I am a long time legacy player, I love the format. In my small group of friends, we play strictly legacy but we all have budgets. None of us have decks that can “go off” on turn 1 or 2, it’s a lot of fun. No one clan afford FoW or legit dual lands. And even if we could, we wouldn’t.
I feel like legacy’s prices are separating and pushing out a lot of would be legacy players. A lot of people are scared to even enter the format because of the prices. That’s sad. The legacy scene around me is pretty rough. 4-5 guys at my LGS have very expensive legacy decks. The “casual/budget” legacy player just can’t compete with that... usually.
There are two kind of magic players. (Not Timmy/Spike made up magic crap!)
Type 1 - Casual/Kitchen table Players
Type 2 - Professional Players
Please note that 90% of the magic playing community is the type 1 player. Type 1 player. We love the game, we play for fun and mostly with our friends. So we don't need real magic cards to play with friends.
Type 2 player are aiming to professionalism. They want to be a pro player, they are looking to be ranked, and they mostly play in tournaments. They go to cardshops and play the best of the best and they are playing magic 2 to 3 times a week. Yes, they are seen as Spikes, but that's because these players want wins. Because they are so focused in playing in tournaments, they have to play with the real magic cards!
It seems interesting, I feel the ban list is way-way too big and something is bound to slip. Not every reserve list card is worth over 100 dollars. Oath of Ghouls, Infernal Tribute and Grave Robbers... you can get all 3 of these cards for less then 5 dollars.
I wonder if the cardshop thought of using a 10 card proxy policy for the legacy format?
LOL @ magic geek editing his post, removing the part where he asked me to post my decklist and then realizing his foot was in his mouth when I called his bluff. Classic.
Burn should never be playing a colorless land like Wak-Wak or Maze. Lands/Depths is just a bad matchup, as is most fast combo for Burn. Not sure why you're trying to dilute your sideboard to potentially assist a matchup that will still be bad.
Some players like to play their decks instead of folding to a bad matchup. I do agree manaless lands are hard to play in this type of deck (sorry I don't see them as colorless lands), but I feel that MG wants to find away to win against Lands/Depths. Either because of playing in a tournament or against a friend/jerk who is playing Depths on the kitchen table. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with splash in legacy burn.
Yeah, I spoze I do. I posted my burn decklist, and my interesting results using weird sideboarding. Including my play mistakes. Alpine Moon & Island of Wak-Wak are spicy, because Dark Depths sure seems unfair, and ubiquitous. Relabelling "combo" as 'Unfair' sounds odd, but, go ahead. But, it doesn't make FoW fair.
Believing you are going to deal 8 damage using Price of Progress seems extremely hopeful against decks playing Ponder. Price will be the first card discarded, and the spell counterspelled by FoW. At least, that's what happens to me.
Being "on the fairer end of the spectrum' sounds like Asperger's, not Burn.
It's one of the problems with burn. Some of our answers like POP, ensnaring bridge, etc are easy targets for counter magic.
I do believe Alpine Moon was a good card against dark depths for now. If blood moon was 2 mana it could be a better card, but it's not. I'm not sold on Island of Wak-Wak being a good card because it's target is limited to flying creatures. I would go with Maze of Ith, 200 dollars cheaper, targets not limited. Sure it untaps the creature but we burn players should have 2 to 3 creatures in play.
On the other hand, I do feel that splashing a color is much better then playing a unfetachable lands that offer no mana (Wak-Wak and Ith)...
My sideboard Does work against Dark Depth.
But I don't.
.
Game 1 I mulled to 6 and got him to 1 life
.
Game 2 I played an Alpine moon on turn 1, and the game went long...
I got him to 1, again, and the game stalled.
He played a Glacial Chasm, then copied it in his upkeep with a thespian stage so he did not have to pay for it.
Then he plays life from the loam drawing the Glacial chasm and junk
Then cycles a land, triggering the Life.
And the Glacial Chasm comes back into play.
This took some time.
Meanwhile, nothing is happening on my side of the fence.
After some turns of this he starts to deal me 2 damage with Punishing fire in my turn, and drawing it back into his hand by tapping a grove of Burnwilliows. Aethersworn Cannonist was slowing him down.
10 turns later, he is looking at me like, . . .Really? You are going to make me play this out?
He can never let the Chasm leave play, so he will never get to attack with a 20/20, even if he kills the Alpine moon.
And I draw Alpine Moon Number 2, name Glacial Chasm, and kill him.
.
Game 3, I stuff up royally.
Him - Land, Exploration, land
Me - Mountain Swiftspear
Him - Land, Thespian stage
Me - Barbarian Ring - Alpine Moon - Wait - Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, Win
Me - Mental anguish, looking at the second Alpine Moon in my hand, and the Island of Wak Wak I can't play because I played the Barbarian Ring
My deck gave me EXACTLY what I needed, and I did not play it.
All I had to do was first turn Alpine Moon, Turn 2 Alpine Moon & Island of Wak Wak then do the Happy dance.
Me so Dumb.
Oh well.
I allow myself to make each and every mistake once.
I aint doin' that again.
Grrrr.
But, against the Red/Green version, Yep, That 8 card dedicated sideboard does work.
Well, It should, if you tap the mountain and play the freakin' card on turn 1.
I don't like Swiftspear because there are times you cannot pump them. I do play with 4 Vexing Devils. Please note: I'm not going to argue the pro's and con's about playing with a vexing devil, because the pro's and con's were created by players that never played with vexing devil. I believe if you were playing with a vexing devil instead of swiftspear you might had gotten over that 1 point hump. I do think you should play testing vexing devil first and judge for yourself.
Barbarian Ring is not a good card. We seldom get Threshold. I don't like it because you cannot sac it to a fireblast.
I'm not sure what happen with the Alpine Moon (Dark Depths should be a given targeted name). Game 3 you could had gotten the win.
Getting the answer card, and then getting spanked anyway, really gets me down.
And that is my problem. Discard in Legacy is common, especially facing those decks. They play discard to solve those problems.
The cheapest Thoughtseize is down to 15 bucks, Plateau is $180 (what, really?, no love for plateau compared with other Multi's)
Either way, I already got both, and that aint the issue.
and this is why I suggested using shock lands
Sure you'll be soaked by some damage but the cost is far less for what you need to do.
* Not getting a white mana, blows
* Getting Path to exile hit by Inquiz & Thoughtseize also blows
* Them getting a second 20/20 also blows. (Now, sure, they absolutely should be dead before a second one)
You have 8 fetchlands good chance in getting white mana. I'm playing with a splash of black, but I could play splash of white if necessary, and I don't get color screwed. To tell you the truth, I have more problems with Searing Blaze then I would have with finding the splash mana (more troubles as in holding a Searing Blaze and wishing I drew a land to drop)
There is a reason why Thoughtseize was almost 50 dollars a pop... The card doesn't suck.
Well I guess some players have all the luck... And I would fold if a second one enters the battlefield (the creature not land)
Alpine Moon seems idea but is very narrow. If it works, then that's your answer... But discarding is a reality, especially for Legacy.
Surgical wont work. (pretty sure)
Same with Traitor's roar. (too slow, and a sorcery, so no window).
Grab the reins is too expensive
Disharmony (&ActOfA) might work, but requires the 20/20 to exist in my main faze. And it often doesn't.
Backlash is perfect. Except its a black card.
As I said E-Bridge will get discarded, destroyed, or maybe be too slow. But it does have a definite plan.
Pia and ornithopter are one turn wonders that slow me down too, and might get destroyed.
Glacial Chasm will work, but seems strictly worse than Karakas, Maze of Ith and Island of Wak-Wak.
Hmmmmm.
Weird to think Bitterblossom would work too. (if I had Black)
See how hard it is?
A singleton Alpine Moon seems hopeful.
Splash white for Path to Exile... You could have 2 shocklands and 8 fetchlands
$10 for a even a basic Burn deck is a pretty good deal. Even Bolts go for $2ish these days.
We have some very powerful sideboard options against combo. The problem is that most of them are quite specific, and very few are unbeatable by a skilled opponent. Karakas and Ensnaring Bridge are the most flexible choices, having value against Reanimator, SnT decks, and Depths decks, but the former is often not quite sufficient and the latter is often too slow. Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, and Tormod's Crypt are options against graveyard-using decks, but they only work against these decks, and Crypt is the only one I find serviceable (Leyline forces you to mulligan far too much and leaves you with dead draws, while Surgical and Faerie often falter in the face of discard). Pyrostatic Pillar and Pithing Needle have some fringe utility, but often aren't quite powerful enough, or sufficiently effective in enough matches.
At the end of the day, bad matches against combo will rarely change from that state. Your sideboard cards probably aren't going to beat them. You're just trying to buy time. If a sideboard card buys you a single turn, given your damage output, that's often enough.
Burn is a fun budget deck. I wouldn't play mono-red burn in a tournament, because our options are limited. I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing a 2nd color, especially if your playing with 8 fetchlands. You can go very far with 8 fetchlands and 2 dual lands.
I know a lot of players believe mono red burn is the best to play, because it's cheap and easy. But sometimes cheap is not the best solution, especially when your putting money into playing a tournament. And then again 8 fetchlands do make it harder for color screw.
Some players are very creative with the deck names, others are not and sometimes the name is created by opponents in general. Sometimes the names are based on when it was made, what inspired the maker, and what players thought of the deck.
I like burn... I know the name is boring, but no matter how I want to change the name, players are going to see the deck as burn.
I wouldn't say Paul Sligh created the red weenie deck with a splash of burn, but because he took that deck to the tournament level, the deck happen to be called after him... Sligh. Is it creative?
On the other hand, I think 187 was a creative deck name. It was a standard deck that used creature coming in play effects (such as Man-o'-War and Nekrataal) and named it after the California Penal Code for Murder.
Then again, I think "The Deck" was a very least creative name, but that name was given by players who played against it... such as "That kid is playing 'The Deck'. I hate 'The Deck'. 'The Deck' was a solid control blue deck that I believed gotten noticed with Force of Will.
Dark Depths... The Marit Lage token is a creature token. Consuming Sinkhole targets a land creature
[such as: Mishra's Factory - Assembly-Worker]
I strongly believe if Dark Depths is too much of an issue, it would be best to splash. White Path to Exile and Blue Chain of Vapor would be good splash cards. I like Chain of Vapor more because it hits other non-land targets and the chain effect is rarely good against us, too.
There are two kind of magic players. (Not Timmy/Spike made up magic crap!)
Type 1 - Casual/Kitchen table Players
Type 2 - Professional Players
Please note that 90% of the magic playing community is the type 1 player. Type 1 player. We love the game, we play for fun and mostly with our friends. So we don't need real magic cards to play with friends.
Type 2 player are aiming to professionalism. They want to be a pro player, they are looking to be ranked, and they mostly play in tournaments. They go to cardshops and play the best of the best and they are playing magic 2 to 3 times a week. Yes, they are seen as Spikes, but that's because these players want wins. Because they are so focused in playing in tournaments, they have to play with the real magic cards!
I wonder if the cardshop thought of using a 10 card proxy policy for the legacy format?
Some players like to play their decks instead of folding to a bad matchup. I do agree manaless lands are hard to play in this type of deck (sorry I don't see them as colorless lands), but I feel that MG wants to find away to win against Lands/Depths. Either because of playing in a tournament or against a friend/jerk who is playing Depths on the kitchen table. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with splash in legacy burn.
PS... lets omit the personal attacks...
It's one of the problems with burn. Some of our answers like POP, ensnaring bridge, etc are easy targets for counter magic.
I do believe Alpine Moon was a good card against dark depths for now. If blood moon was 2 mana it could be a better card, but it's not. I'm not sold on Island of Wak-Wak being a good card because it's target is limited to flying creatures. I would go with Maze of Ith, 200 dollars cheaper, targets not limited. Sure it untaps the creature but we burn players should have 2 to 3 creatures in play.
On the other hand, I do feel that splashing a color is much better then playing a unfetachable lands that offer no mana (Wak-Wak and Ith)...
I don't like Swiftspear because there are times you cannot pump them. I do play with 4 Vexing Devils. Please note: I'm not going to argue the pro's and con's about playing with a vexing devil, because the pro's and con's were created by players that never played with vexing devil. I believe if you were playing with a vexing devil instead of swiftspear you might had gotten over that 1 point hump. I do think you should play testing vexing devil first and judge for yourself.
Barbarian Ring is not a good card. We seldom get Threshold. I don't like it because you cannot sac it to a fireblast.
I'm not sure what happen with the Alpine Moon (Dark Depths should be a given targeted name). Game 3 you could had gotten the win.
Though a Planeswalker set don't surprise me. Legends is a Legendary set (as well as first multi-color set)...
and this is why I suggested using shock lands
Sure you'll be soaked by some damage but the cost is far less for what you need to do.
You have 8 fetchlands good chance in getting white mana. I'm playing with a splash of black, but I could play splash of white if necessary, and I don't get color screwed. To tell you the truth, I have more problems with Searing Blaze then I would have with finding the splash mana (more troubles as in holding a Searing Blaze and wishing I drew a land to drop)
There is a reason why Thoughtseize was almost 50 dollars a pop... The card doesn't suck.
Well I guess some players have all the luck... And I would fold if a second one enters the battlefield (the creature not land)
Alpine Moon seems idea but is very narrow. If it works, then that's your answer... But discarding is a reality, especially for Legacy.
Splash white for Path to Exile... You could have 2 shocklands and 8 fetchlands
Burn is a fun budget deck. I wouldn't play mono-red burn in a tournament, because our options are limited. I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing a 2nd color, especially if your playing with 8 fetchlands. You can go very far with 8 fetchlands and 2 dual lands.
I know a lot of players believe mono red burn is the best to play, because it's cheap and easy. But sometimes cheap is not the best solution, especially when your putting money into playing a tournament. And then again 8 fetchlands do make it harder for color screw.
I like burn... I know the name is boring, but no matter how I want to change the name, players are going to see the deck as burn.
I wouldn't say Paul Sligh created the red weenie deck with a splash of burn, but because he took that deck to the tournament level, the deck happen to be called after him... Sligh. Is it creative?
On the other hand, I think 187 was a creative deck name. It was a standard deck that used creature coming in play effects (such as Man-o'-War and Nekrataal) and named it after the California Penal Code for Murder.
Then again, I think "The Deck" was a very least creative name, but that name was given by players who played against it... such as "That kid is playing 'The Deck'. I hate 'The Deck'. 'The Deck' was a solid control blue deck that I believed gotten noticed with Force of Will.