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  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    Quote from schweinefett »
    Quote from R_Lancer »
    Quote from kiron »
    Why was mental misstep banned? Yeah, lot of the format is 1 mana spells, but you can also run it yourself or run stuff that cost more than 1 mana.


    Because players cannot handle getting their brainstorm countered on turn 1. That's the reason why the card was banned.


    I'm not sure if that was a serious comment or not, but it's partially true, i suppose.


    Yeah, this is the controversy of the banning. There were players (pro players) that claimed that Mental Misstep turn Legacy into a coin toss format, because brainstorm was the common target. This was a major factor when any deck Burn, Goblins, Stompy, etc had a free card that could countered brainstorm on zero turn. Most decks blue decks playing brainstorm couldn't handle the early turn lost, especially against burn, goblins, stompy or such janks. It also hurt the decks because they got themseleves into playing Mental Misstep (which watered down their builds) so they can counter Mental Misstep instead of using a force of will.

    Later the argument was switched to everybody was playing 4 Mental Missteps in a deck and we have 56 other cards.

    Personally, I enjoyed the Mental Misstep legacy format because I don't agree that we should have solid consistence in magic. But I'm not a pro player, even though I've been playing this game since 1996... On the other hand, I believe pro magic players are worst, more worse those investing in Magic cards. Because they see the game in a gambling perspective, even though they don't want to admit they do, otherwise, Mental Misstep wouldnt be banned.

    Anyway that's my feelings about the banning...
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    Quote from kiron »
    Why was mental misstep banned? Yeah, lot of the format is 1 mana spells, but you can also run it yourself or run stuff that cost more than 1 mana.


    Because players cannot handle getting their brainstorm countered on turn 1. That's the reason why the card was banned.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Burn
    I'm not sure about the Horizon land because you cannot fetch them. So you have no control in having them in play. And at worst it would suck if you have 3 lands in play, 1 mountain and 2 Horizon lands and your stuck with a fireblast in your hand.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from BasedFuster »
    I'm surprised magic geek didn't consider Pithing Needle already. It works against a lot of other good decks that use activated abilities like DNT, and you can just plop it down turn 1 and name Thespian's Stage to stop the combo. Win-win in my book, but yeah anyway if you're a serious competitive player, getting attached to a pet deck is just bad and if you know your local meta is stacked against you, the best way to adapt is to play something else. You play burn because there's certain decks it's very good against and if the meta is mostly those certain decks, burn is the best deck to exploit those deck's weaknesses.


    Yeah, pithing needle is a good card. Agree the combo is tough, but slowing the combo is more a burn advantage. I think stopping the deck from working is out of focus. So worrying about answers to pithing needle or such is not going to help burn from winning. Idea focus is play a card and make them deal with it. (this response is aimed depths ability to remove pithing needle and such cards from play)



    Anyway, the main thing I want to post about is the new canopy lands that got spoiled in Modern Horizons. We now have access to up to 8 lands that we can sacrifice to draw us cards (Sunbaked Canyon and Fiery Islet), which is huge for us, as using our lands to draw extra cards shores up a major weakness with this deck. However, since they're nonbasic, make Price of Progress and Fireblast worse, and using them for mana costs us life (Negligible at first but if you get 2-3 of them out early, it adds up), I don't feel like 8 canopy lands is the right number for us. I wonder what everyone else who plays this deck thinks the right number should be?



    I think red canopy lands are going to work with modern burn, unless there's a modern version of fireblast. If we really want free draws, we have Street Wraith and at one time we had Gitaxian Probe - and these cards were almost never used in burn. I think using a non-basic lands (unfetchable and unblastable) just to maybe draw a card (which cost mana to activate) is not a good idea in legacy burn.




    My gut feeling is telling me that 4-6 is the sweet spot for us, but maybe someone here with more experience with the deck or more experience number crunching can give me a better or more statistically sound answer. I'm not worried about them not being fetchable, firstly because my deck is built with 20 mountains anyway, and secondly if I decide I want to put Grim Lavamancer back in my deck again, these canopy lands fuel him just like fetches do.


    I doubt it... Think of this, tap a land for mana and lose another land to draw a card... When are you going to play this on turn 4. Burn is mana sensitive, every mana is counted. why not play 4 Street Wraith all you need to do is pay 2 life and discard a Street Wraith to draw a card...
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from DanzBorin »
    I've actually thought about taking out the Swiftspears for Light Up the Stage.


    I like Light Up the Stage in modern so it might be a good card in Legacy.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from magic geek »
    Consuming Sinkhole costs 4, and doesn't work on Marit Lage


    Yep, I sort of said that too Smile

    Path to Exile can only work once the target is on the battlefield. The reason it specifically does not work great against Marit lage is because they get the land they want as part of their engine, and they are playing wasteland. They can see you have the ability to get a white, and path it. Sometimes they figure out a way to hide, sometimes they figure out a way to discard, sometimes they figure out a way to remove the white source. Sylvan safekeeper, thoughtseize, wasteland. Path does not even deal damage. Losing to a never ending hammer is annoying as they sit behind a constantly renewed Glacial chasm.


    There is up's and down's with every silver bullet. Path seemed good because it cost 1 mana. You can leave an untapped fetchland in play (and taunt the wasteland) before popping it for the dual land.


    Path is unreliable because it is a two part solution, with conditional requirements.
    Part A, Then Part B, After occurrence C, provided X+Y+Z haven't happened.

    Alpine Moon is just Part A


    I'm not sure unreliable, is correct. If you know your up against Dark Depths, you should be playing your cards differently. Such as playing fecthlands without taping on the turn they come into play. You don't need to start channeling your burn power on turn 1.

    Sure Alpine Moon is good against Dark Depths, but it won't take much for them to answer that card, especially when Alpine Moon is giving a non mana land many of any color.

    Chain of Vapor is extremely similar to Path. I am not understating the strength of Path , or chain.
    But I do not believe they are the universal balm , the panacea, in this case.
    Chain of vapor would be incredible. . . . Except it is blue


    The best thing about chain of vapor. play a Volcanic Island and your opponent thinks your playing Delver, and will assume you have a Force of Will in your hand.


    I have used Searing Blood, and it was OK as a sideboard card in a couple of cases. Delver, and grixis and Elves was good.
    Wasn't good when their creature did not wanna die.


    I love Searing Blood and Searing Blaze almost equally. I usually main deck 4 of one or the other, or sometimes I'll mix them (2 each).


    I still prefer the full 4 Swiftspears, and Lavamancers just a bit slow. I like playing Barbarian rings too, so threshold is something I value. I am happy to keep 4 land hands, if one is a Barbarian ring. And I am very happy when I see 2 lands, and one is a barbarian ring. The rings just seem good.


    Depends on how you play. 4 Swiftspears are good if your into pounding. But not that good in longer games, that's where Lavamancers work.

    My issue with swiftspear is... I love to play Eidolon on turn 2 (I do have my deck set up that I can drop him into play on turn 1). And if I play Swiftspear on turn 1, Eidolon on turn 2, Swifty is not being pumped until turn 3. [This is why I play with Vexing instead of Swifty].

    The other problem about swifty (common problem) we have 20 lands and 12 creatures [4 Goblin Guides, 4 Swiftspears, 4 Eidolon] therefore we have 28 spells that pump swifty [remember 32 cards are non-swifty pumps and that's more then half the deck], also not every spell is played early -4 Price of Progress and -4 Fireblasts, these cards are often used later turn 3 or turn 4. So the ideal pump cards for swifty in the early game are Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Lava Spike (which are 12 spells)... Rift Bolt kind of sucks and Skewer the Critics needs 1 mana bolt cards for you to play it before a swifty attack.

    But then again, your not playing Eidolon in the early game... I think a good Swifty built has no Eidolon, but I feel that Eidolon makes burn awesome. But that's my feelings towards Swifty.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Horizon will have 2 Planeswalkers in total, and the other one is a new character
    Quote from the n00b king »
    "Treated as a normal set, but twice as expensive. Why? Well...just because. Trust me, we had to hold ourselves back from charging 12$ because we know you're going to pay up no matter what!" - Business 101


    It'll only be worth it if Fechlands and shocklands are in the set.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from TylerStegman »
    Isn't there a devoid card to answer it? Might cost too much to cast. I think it costs 3b


    Dark Depths... The Marit Lage token is a creature token. Consuming Sinkhole targets a land creature
    [such as: Mishra's Factory - Assembly-Worker]

    I strongly believe if Dark Depths is too much of an issue, it would be best to splash. White Path to Exile and Blue Chain of Vapor would be good splash cards. I like Chain of Vapor more because it hits other non-land targets and the chain effect is rarely good against us, too.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on I love legacy so much
    Quote from t0yb0x »
    Hmmm, legacy’s price issues seems to be affecting a lot of players the same way. I am a long time legacy player, I love the format. In my small group of friends, we play strictly legacy but we all have budgets. None of us have decks that can “go off” on turn 1 or 2, it’s a lot of fun. No one clan afford FoW or legit dual lands. And even if we could, we wouldn’t.

    I feel like legacy’s prices are separating and pushing out a lot of would be legacy players. A lot of people are scared to even enter the format because of the prices. That’s sad. The legacy scene around me is pretty rough. 4-5 guys at my LGS have very expensive legacy decks. The “casual/budget” legacy player just can’t compete with that... usually.



    There are two kind of magic players. (Not Timmy/Spike made up magic crap!)

    Type 1 - Casual/Kitchen table Players
    Type 2 - Professional Players

    Please note that 90% of the magic playing community is the type 1 player. Type 1 player. We love the game, we play for fun and mostly with our friends. So we don't need real magic cards to play with friends.

    Type 2 player are aiming to professionalism. They want to be a pro player, they are looking to be ranked, and they mostly play in tournaments. They go to cardshops and play the best of the best and they are playing magic 2 to 3 times a week. Yes, they are seen as Spikes, but that's because these players want wins. Because they are so focused in playing in tournaments, they have to play with the real magic cards!




    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on List of Relevant Reserved List Cards
    It seems interesting, I feel the ban list is way-way too big and something is bound to slip. Not every reserve list card is worth over 100 dollars. Oath of Ghouls, Infernal Tribute and Grave Robbers... you can get all 3 of these cards for less then 5 dollars.


    I wonder if the cardshop thought of using a 10 card proxy policy for the legacy format?
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from GPash »
    LOL @ magic geek editing his post, removing the part where he asked me to post my decklist and then realizing his foot was in his mouth when I called his bluff. Classic.

    Burn should never be playing a colorless land like Wak-Wak or Maze. Lands/Depths is just a bad matchup, as is most fast combo for Burn. Not sure why you're trying to dilute your sideboard to potentially assist a matchup that will still be bad.


    Some players like to play their decks instead of folding to a bad matchup. I do agree manaless lands are hard to play in this type of deck (sorry I don't see them as colorless lands), but I feel that MG wants to find away to win against Lands/Depths. Either because of playing in a tournament or against a friend/jerk who is playing Depths on the kitchen table. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with splash in legacy burn.

    PS... lets omit the personal attacks...
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from magic geek »
    Yeah, I spoze I do. I posted my burn decklist, and my interesting results using weird sideboarding. Including my play mistakes. Alpine Moon & Island of Wak-Wak are spicy, because Dark Depths sure seems unfair, and ubiquitous. Relabelling "combo" as 'Unfair' sounds odd, but, go ahead. But, it doesn't make FoW fair.

    Believing you are going to deal 8 damage using Price of Progress seems extremely hopeful against decks playing Ponder. Price will be the first card discarded, and the spell counterspelled by FoW. At least, that's what happens to me.
    Being "on the fairer end of the spectrum' sounds like Asperger's, not Burn.


    It's one of the problems with burn. Some of our answers like POP, ensnaring bridge, etc are easy targets for counter magic.

    I do believe Alpine Moon was a good card against dark depths for now. If blood moon was 2 mana it could be a better card, but it's not. I'm not sold on Island of Wak-Wak being a good card because it's target is limited to flying creatures. I would go with Maze of Ith, 200 dollars cheaper, targets not limited. Sure it untaps the creature but we burn players should have 2 to 3 creatures in play.

    On the other hand, I do feel that splashing a color is much better then playing a unfetachable lands that offer no mana (Wak-Wak and Ith)...
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from magic geek »
    YarrrrrrGh!

    My sideboard Does work against Dark Depth.
    But I don't.
    .
    Game 1 I mulled to 6 and got him to 1 life
    .
    Game 2 I played an Alpine moon on turn 1, and the game went long...
    I got him to 1, again, and the game stalled.
    He played a Glacial Chasm, then copied it in his upkeep with a thespian stage so he did not have to pay for it.
    Then he plays life from the loam drawing the Glacial chasm and junk
    Then cycles a land, triggering the Life.
    And the Glacial Chasm comes back into play.
    This took some time.
    Meanwhile, nothing is happening on my side of the fence.
    After some turns of this he starts to deal me 2 damage with Punishing fire in my turn, and drawing it back into his hand by tapping a grove of Burnwilliows. Aethersworn Cannonist was slowing him down.
    10 turns later, he is looking at me like, . . .Really? You are going to make me play this out?
    He can never let the Chasm leave play, so he will never get to attack with a 20/20, even if he kills the Alpine moon.
    And I draw Alpine Moon Number 2, name Glacial Chasm, and kill him.
    .
    Game 3, I stuff up royally.
    Him - Land, Exploration, land
    Me - Mountain Swiftspear
    Him - Land, Thespian stage
    Me - Barbarian Ring - Alpine Moon - Wait - Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, Win

    Me - Mental anguish, looking at the second Alpine Moon in my hand, and the Island of Wak Wak I can't play because I played the Barbarian Ring

    My deck gave me EXACTLY what I needed, and I did not play it.
    All I had to do was first turn Alpine Moon, Turn 2 Alpine Moon & Island of Wak Wak then do the Happy dance.

    Me so Dumb.

    Oh well.
    I allow myself to make each and every mistake once.
    I aint doin' that again.
    Grrrr.

    But, against the Red/Green version, Yep, That 8 card dedicated sideboard does work.
    Well, It should, if you tap the mountain and play the freakin' card on turn 1.


    I don't like Swiftspear because there are times you cannot pump them. I do play with 4 Vexing Devils. Please note: I'm not going to argue the pro's and con's about playing with a vexing devil, because the pro's and con's were created by players that never played with vexing devil. I believe if you were playing with a vexing devil instead of swiftspear you might had gotten over that 1 point hump. I do think you should play testing vexing devil first and judge for yourself.

    Barbarian Ring is not a good card. We seldom get Threshold. I don't like it because you cannot sac it to a fireblast.

    I'm not sure what happen with the Alpine Moon (Dark Depths should be a given targeted name). Game 3 you could had gotten the win.


    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Something bugs me about WAR (semi-rant inside)
    I never cared about the MTG stories, I'm not playing the game because of the story of the cards.

    Though a Planeswalker set don't surprise me. Legends is a Legendary set (as well as first multi-color set)...
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from magic geek »


    Getting the answer card, and then getting spanked anyway, really gets me down.
    And that is my problem. Discard in Legacy is common, especially facing those decks. They play discard to solve those problems.
    The cheapest Thoughtseize is down to 15 bucks, Plateau is $180 (what, really?, no love for plateau compared with other Multi's)
    Either way, I already got both, and that aint the issue.



    and this is why I suggested using shock lands Smile

    Sure you'll be soaked by some damage but the cost is far less for what you need to do.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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