Yea...Risk factor sounds like the real deal. It may not look like much at 3 mana, but the fact that it punishes people doing 4 to the face or draw 3 cards is important. Not only that it can be jumpstarted. So unless the enemy counters it and cuts off your ability to use the graveyard. Very good chance you will get what you want.
Deck is midrangy and it's aggro side will frustrate many other decks. I'm not sure how it handles itself against Jeskai/Sultai control decks or sarkhan's unsealing decks or burn/counterburn decks though the lifegain side should mitigate some of that.
Intro:
Decided to revisit doing elves.
When putting these together I started equating these to a baskin robbins flavors.
Elves decks have many different ways they can be put together. With GRN rotation we can explore different builds under the different color combinations and come up with different decks to attack the OP differently.
This deck needs some tweaking, but I remember seeing an older deck that had used Grand Warlord Radha. Since convoke isn't an option from white. We go to red because red allows us to drop the hammer with banefire and do uncounterable damage. We also have fight with fire for midrange threats. Mana is probably a bit heavy handed at 24 lands.
Other thoughts:
1. Card advantage isn't super great with Treasure Map
2. Sideboard needs some adjusting as well.
3. Risk factor should be able to help as well acting as a punisher.
I thought about this build after thinking about merfolk since merfolk have a lot of synergy and push out a lot of counters and try to flip Hadana's Climb. I figured let's try to apply this to elves and with Steel Leaf Chamption. I also considered the auras decks since blue is deep with cheap low to the ground auras that push evasion. Also blue gives us Dive Down and card advantage cards like Opt / Search for Azcanta.
Sideboard is probably gonna need some adjusting I do have Nezahal in there though.
This golgari should be straight forward. Just topdeck Underrealm Lich and then has some removal dropped in. 1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed to make use of the graveyard if necessary. The usual suspects are there and lay the foundation for the deck. It will probably need Find\\Finality. I'm still questioning this deck a little because graveyard interaction is limited. A little bit limited on removal as well and going to need to do some further tweaking of the sideboard.
I think a bant deck could be put together. I do believe you can do.
You would have to make a choice: either go all in on ramp and add a ramp package or take the deck in a midrange direction. Due note if you go all in on ramp you gotta have a good payoff. Imo I think the deck is served better going in either a midrange direction or a stomp/mono green deck with black splash, matter of fact with Nullhide Ferox probably want to lean on going more stomp/mono-green with black splash.
imo, well he was just testing the deck to see how far he could go. At it's best its about roughly 9 mana at turn 5. Chromatic Lantern opens the door to let the deck go 5 color if it needs to which I believe was the original intention of the deck. Omniscience was a 1 of so don't think this card was held in high regard, but in retrospect he did state that he did want to dump that mana into high powered spells.
Just to keep things 100, not going to get into the distinctions between Temur and Naya removal. That conversation just splits hairs and doesn't go anywhere.
The core of the deck is pretty straight forward, the key cards are all here (Emmara, Shanna, History, etc.) with a few interesting inclusions. Heroic Reinforcements is the only card he's splashing red for in the mainboard; while it seems powerful I feel like there are a lot of other options at 4cc in either green or white, such as Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants, that could easily fill this slot without having to go a third colour. I do like the Flower // flourish (though I'm not sure about a full playset) and that is definitely an addition I will be testing. The singleton Snubhorn Sentry is a little confusing, given the amount of other more aggressive 1-drops he is not playing, and I would definitely run more than one Benalish Marshals.
I saw this. He splashes for Heroic Reinforcements and Huatli, Warrior Poet. Granted, the latter is in the sideboard. IMO, good anthem affect and haste is really swanky especially if that gets combo'd off a history of benalia. Though I really dig the combo of going from march of multitudes to luxodon then heroic reinforcements.
So for snubhorn, he notes you can use to convoke and expects it to become a 3/3 attacker after getting 10 permanents and hitting ascend. Imo I would be ok with the 2 snubhorns vs 2 benalish marshalls.
he also states he wants to create board presence. Land count is also low to the ground. It's not a deck that is meant to be hyperaggressive. He does think llanowar needs to be in selesnya but can work with a deck focusing on more 1 drops. Due to all the boros lands not making green.
some interesting combos
legion's landing x2 into a venerated luxodon.
Kinda odd at 22 lands that he flooded though.
his combo of march of multitudes in venerated luxodon then into heroic reinforcements is very solid.
"Again, it's been said?" No, YOU said. The question of whether Ajani is good or not hasn't been determined, especially not by you. You're done with the subject? That's great, but don't state your opinion as fact. And as far as Chainwhirler... Its my OPINION that it won't see as much play. The meta is about to be wide open, and there will be numerous ways to rebuild the board fairly quickly, as well as pump creatures. The only one assuming things as fact is you.
First off, I would appreciate it if you would quit twisting my words around, and no I didn't state anything as fact. I haven't assumed anything...I'm not in the business of making assumptions. I've already said that assumptions make you into a you know what. That's you and your off-the-wall boardstall scenario. Furthermore, the assumptions you have been making about what I have said really isn't helping. Anything I have said up to this point and after this point is an opinion, nothing more nothing less. You can take any opinion with a grain of salt. Granted, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Secondly, you also make it seem like I need to write a thesis paper for you and that straight up isn't happening. To reiterate I haven't tried to imply fact based off a statement, but there is a clear disconnect here so I am ready to move on. You can continue to manipulate, postulate, and twist if you like, but that was never my intention. If anything, it was far from it and I'm disappointed to see such lack of decency.
Lastly, also I'm not interested in this he said, she said, capitalized opinions and the like. You stated what you said, I stated what I said, I'm ready move on. You can work that out with your deck and I'm sorry you feel that way. So here is an opinion which was always the case. You should do to the deck what is necessary to get that deck where it needs to go to be successful. That is irregardless of any card you elect to place in the deck. If that happens to get you a top8 at the GP gravy...If you don't...gravy Clear? I hope so.
EDIT: To keep things 100, anything I state from the past, future, present is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are 100% opinion. So with that said, I would greatly appreciate it if you refrained from twisting my words around.
I think Plaguecrafter is cool but he does force you sack a creature and you already have Vraska for that. Also I'm assuming Vraska is the wincon here right? Sac about 3 guys and then use her ultimate to win?
[quote from="kysg »" url="/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/798975-grd-selesnya-tokens-mostly-white-weenie?comment=11"]
It's not really an off the wall scenario; basically, anytime you are at parity with your opponent Ajani puts combat in your favour. Either by making your guys bigger than your opponent's, or bringing back your best 1-2 drop after combat. He also helps after a board sweep with all the token makers in the deck and the -2 ability. I would argue that Ajani is good in nearly every state of the game, except in states where there is no chance of winning anyway.
It is an off the wall scenario...it lacks a lot of context. So again, let's move on from the conversation because there is nothing to add here that we don't already know. Again, it's been said, he only really helps if your ahead. He doesn't do much when your behind. Also assuming things don't help either. Assuming things only make you look like a you know what at the end of the day. Also the board stall scenario reiterates my point because it bases assumptions off an OP that trades 1 for 1...Really???...In a chainwhirler based meta...Really???
Deck is midrangy and it's aggro side will frustrate many other decks. I'm not sure how it handles itself against Jeskai/Sultai control decks or sarkhan's unsealing decks or burn/counterburn decks though the lifegain side should mitigate some of that.
The removal for each boros shell is going to be pretty subjective especially with cards like:
Deafening Clarion
Justice Strike
Fight with Fire
conclave tribunal
lava coil
and with punishing cards like Risk Factor it really puts the OP in a tough position.
Decided to revisit doing elves.
When putting these together I started equating these to a baskin robbins flavors.
Elves decks have many different ways they can be put together. With GRN rotation we can explore different builds under the different color combinations and come up with different decks to attack the OP differently.
6 Mountain
10 Forest
1 Memorial to Unity
4 Rootbound Crag
Creatures (21)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Clancaller
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Pelt Collector
3 Marwyn, the Nurturer
2 Grand Warlord Radha
3 Banefire
2 Fight with Fire
3 Risk Factor
1 Vivien Reid
2 Treasure Map
4 Lava Coil
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
4 Vine mare
This deck needs some tweaking, but I remember seeing an older deck that had used Grand Warlord Radha. Since convoke isn't an option from white. We go to red because red allows us to drop the hammer with banefire and do uncounterable damage. We also have fight with fire for midrange threats. Mana is probably a bit heavy handed at 24 lands.
Other thoughts:
1. Card advantage isn't super great with Treasure Map
2. Sideboard needs some adjusting as well.
3. Risk factor should be able to help as well acting as a punisher.
7 Island
13 Forest
1 Memorial to Unity
4 Hinterland Harbor
Creatures (16)
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Elvish Clancaller
4 Thorn Lieutenant
2 Pelt Collector
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Arcane Flight
4 Curious Obsession
3 Hadana's Climb
2 Dive Down
3 Negate
4 Opt
1 Negate
2 Nezahal, Primal Tide
3 Skyrider Patrol
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Vivien Reid
4 Vine mare
I thought about this build after thinking about merfolk since merfolk have a lot of synergy and push out a lot of counters and try to flip Hadana's Climb. I figured let's try to apply this to elves and with Steel Leaf Chamption. I also considered the auras decks since blue is deep with cheap low to the ground auras that push evasion. Also blue gives us Dive Down and card advantage cards like Opt / Search for Azcanta.
Sideboard is probably gonna need some adjusting I do have Nezahal in there though.
11 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Memorial to Unity
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
Creatures (28)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Clancaller
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 District Guide
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Poison-Tip Archer
3 Underrealm Lich
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cast Down
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 The Eldest Reborn
3 Duress
3 Plague Mare
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Plaguecrafter
1 Vivien Reid
4 Vine mare
This golgari should be straight forward. Just topdeck Underrealm Lich and then has some removal dropped in. 1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed to make use of the graveyard if necessary. The usual suspects are there and lay the foundation for the deck. It will probably need Find\\Finality. I'm still questioning this deck a little because graveyard interaction is limited. A little bit limited on removal as well and going to need to do some further tweaking of the sideboard.
I think a bant deck could be put together. I do believe you can do.
T1: Llanowar Elves
T2: Knight of Autumn
T3: Hadana's Climb
6 Forest
8 Plains
1 Memorial to Unity
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
Creatures (22)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Legion's Landing
4 Emmara, Soul of the Accord
4 Venerated Luxodon
4 Ledev Champion
2 Arboretum Elemental
4 History of Benalia
4 Conclave Tribunal
3 Sigiled Sword of Valeron
2 March of Multitudes
2 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
3 Knight of Autumn
2 Kraul Harpooner
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Vivien Reid
2 Vine Mare
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
Imo, this should be able to get the deck in the right direction. It gets the deck on more of a token based path.
Just to keep things 100, not going to get into the distinctions between Temur and Naya removal. That conversation just splits hairs and doesn't go anywhere.
And I didn't imply that Deafening Clarion affected the deck as it sat in sideboard...only wanted clarification...
Imo,
I think Star of Extinction / Fight with Fire / Banefire / Inescapable Blaze to drop the hammer are good.
Also didn't see Settle the Wreckage granted it does give the opponent a land.
Also doesn't Deafening Clarion do damage to all creatures including yours?
I saw this. He splashes for Heroic Reinforcements and Huatli, Warrior Poet. Granted, the latter is in the sideboard. IMO, good anthem affect and haste is really swanky especially if that gets combo'd off a history of benalia. Though I really dig the combo of going from march of multitudes to luxodon then heroic reinforcements.
So for snubhorn, he notes you can use to convoke and expects it to become a 3/3 attacker after getting 10 permanents and hitting ascend. Imo I would be ok with the 2 snubhorns vs 2 benalish marshalls.
he also states he wants to create board presence. Land count is also low to the ground. It's not a deck that is meant to be hyperaggressive. He does think llanowar needs to be in selesnya but can work with a deck focusing on more 1 drops. Due to all the boros lands not making green.
some interesting combos
legion's landing x2 into a venerated luxodon.
Kinda odd at 22 lands that he flooded though.
his combo of march of multitudes in venerated luxodon then into heroic reinforcements is very solid.
First off, I would appreciate it if you would quit twisting my words around, and no I didn't state anything as fact. I haven't assumed anything...I'm not in the business of making assumptions. I've already said that assumptions make you into a you know what. That's you and your off-the-wall boardstall scenario. Furthermore, the assumptions you have been making about what I have said really isn't helping. Anything I have said up to this point and after this point is an opinion, nothing more nothing less. You can take any opinion with a grain of salt. Granted, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Secondly, you also make it seem like I need to write a thesis paper for you and that straight up isn't happening. To reiterate I haven't tried to imply fact based off a statement, but there is a clear disconnect here so I am ready to move on. You can continue to manipulate, postulate, and twist if you like, but that was never my intention. If anything, it was far from it and I'm disappointed to see such lack of decency.
Lastly, also I'm not interested in this he said, she said, capitalized opinions and the like. You stated what you said, I stated what I said, I'm ready move on. You can work that out with your deck and I'm sorry you feel that way. So here is an opinion which was always the case. You should do to the deck what is necessary to get that deck where it needs to go to be successful. That is irregardless of any card you elect to place in the deck. If that happens to get you a top8 at the GP gravy...If you don't...gravy Clear? I hope so.
EDIT: To keep things 100, anything I state from the past, future, present is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are 100% opinion. So with that said, I would greatly appreciate it if you refrained from twisting my words around.
It is an off the wall scenario...it lacks a lot of context. So again, let's move on from the conversation because there is nothing to add here that we don't already know. Again, it's been said, he only really helps if your ahead. He doesn't do much when your behind. Also assuming things don't help either. Assuming things only make you look like a you know what at the end of the day. Also the board stall scenario reiterates my point because it bases assumptions off an OP that trades 1 for 1...Really???...In a chainwhirler based meta...Really???