Against the control matchups you would be facing targeted removal. A reasonable call would be Thorn Lieutenant as he leaves a body unless he gets exiled.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
Steel Leaf Champion, which requires 23 green sources, does not yet fit in the above mana base. You can get there by increasing the land count, by relying on non-land sources like Llanowar Elves or Adventurous Impulse, by replacing a few Plains with Unclaimed Territory, Selesnya Guildgate, or Forest, or by accepting a lower level of consistency. But in a deck with Steel Leaf Champion, I would restrict myself to splashing only single-colored cards for turn 3 or later. For example, splashing Knight of Autumn off of 11 sources is doable in a properly constructed Steel Leaf Champion deck, but you should take care before stretching the mana base further.
This mana base can adequately support Llanowar Elves and/or Pelt Collector. Indeed, it contains 14 untapped green sources, not counting Sunpetal Grove, which is enough to cast green 1-drops consistently on turn 1
If I take your list (18 green sources with SL Champ, 10 untapped blue sources for Stormtamer) and compare it to what Karsten has to say, your manabase is approximatively as bad as I told you. The fact you want to move on because you're wrong is certainly your concern, but it's important not to leave the topic unanswered for other people who may read the conversation.
Again, this really doesn't add anything. As far as answering the topic you didn't really do that very well, article had been posted multiple times previously before frank updated it. People really should just read it for themselves and use google. As far as your approximations...not gonna entertain those. Again, really would like to move on from it. Also, got a better idea run it mono green which was whole point of the thread...cool? cool.
You can denigrate the post all you want. Doesn't change the validity of it. If every single criticism you read towards your build you attack, then why even post?
Not denigrating anything...and as far as validity of it...I leave that one on you. I haven't even posted a build in this thread.
dont waste your breath. You'll find identical reactions/posts in every thread he's commented in when someone disagrees. In fact, the ignore user function is probably the best course of action here.
Not even going to entertain this. The saltiness is strong in this one.
Tyrant and Mare have EVERYTHING to do with a stomp based direction. Both of the recursion cards are good. If both sides of the field are stalled or durddling, then find is good. If you have threats on the other side of the field, dropping a 3/4 body and getting a utility creature is just better.
This isn't really helping. Caps definitely do not help either. So gonna move on from this. As far as tyrant and mare...you know what moving on from that one too.
I'll agree to disagree. Is Steel Leaf Champion uncastable in this deck? No. it is very castable.
On turn 5, yes...
Does it force a T1 Llanowar Elves or Forest Yes. The Frank Karsten article does say go with 22 sources to get steel leaf out on T3, but he also states these should be used as guidelines. Imo, 19-20 should be the minimum to get steel leaf champion to come out on turn 3 especially if the deck is weighted more in green.
The idea is that Champ is the best thing the deck can do on turn 2 (thanks to Llanowar), so the manabase is built around that card to begin with. So in this case, it's not a "guideline" you can cross back and forth so easily.
6 Islands means that both Llanowar Elves and Steal Leaf Champion won't be castable on curve, because many of your opening hands will have 1, 2 or even 3 Islands, and possibly a tapped Woodland Stream. For some reason, you took into account Champ but not the mana dork, which will suffer much of those 5-6 Islands and 2 Streams on turn 1...
Now I'm telling you, the manabase you proposed doesn't work. You need Breeding Pool and not play over 2 Islands.
Another point, Llanowar Elves + Siren Stormtamer with a fetchless manabase is not happening. Especially in a format where you have nountappeddual land on turn 1.
Sorry to stress it so much, but I thought my first post would've helped you figure it out already.
This doesn't help at all. It also doesn't add anything. So gonna just move on from it. Also would appreciate it if you moved on from it as well.
I have definitely noticed that people run 3 copies of Find, pretty much a staple in most golgari decks. Golgari Findbroker I am still somewhat out on this card but it seems to have found itself as a staple in decks because it can recover removal and just about anything out of the graveyard to keep the match grinding along.
I did see Memorial to Folly make some of those lists but I am not sure if that is the card I am looking for.
Deck feels a bit creature heavy at the moment, will do some more fine tuning as it moves a long. It may be that deck should start out aggro and then switch to control later and grind it's way forward. We do have a way to recover creatures back now after getting wiped out and can pull removal back as well. I'm tempted to add Ochran Assassin, granted the card is not very good but it may get me out of a jam during a boardstall and allow me to close out a match against tokens/aggro.
just confirms what I thought about History of Benalia. Completely gets hosed against this deck. Anyways glad Firemind's Research ended up helping the deck out.
Ideally you need 22 green sources for Steel Leaf Champion, if you count Llanowar Elves as half a source, that means really you need at least 20 green producing lands.
agree to disagree, that is assuming that it comes out T3 which if you ramp you need more lands to get it to come out on T2. In any case, I'm not a firm believer that you have to have that many lands to support a triple source. I also don't believe 1 mana source should backbreak a deck. Again, he stated those were guidelines and not hardline. But hey I'm going to move on. None of this is really helpful.
Imo, splashing white and going Knight of Autumn does feel like the correct move. My issue is when sideboarding in duress
Do you plan on playing it T1/T2/T3 or T4?
Also what about Etrata, the silencer. It's a nasty card that can't be blocked.
Again, this really doesn't add anything. As far as answering the topic you didn't really do that very well, article had been posted multiple times previously before frank updated it. People really should just read it for themselves and use google. As far as your approximations...not gonna entertain those. Again, really would like to move on from it. Also, got a better idea run it mono green which was whole point of the thread...cool? cool.
Maybe this gives you some ideas.
Not denigrating anything...and as far as validity of it...I leave that one on you. I haven't even posted a build in this thread.
Not even going to entertain this. The saltiness is strong in this one.
This isn't really helping. Caps definitely do not help either. So gonna move on from this. As far as tyrant and mare...you know what moving on from that one too.
13 Forest
1 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
Creatures (27)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Clancaller
4 Thorn Lieutenant
4 Druid of the Cowl
4 Elfhame Druid
3 Marwyn, the Nurturer
4 Beast Whisperer
4 Vanquisher's Banner
4 Flower \\ Fluorish
3 Conclave Tribunal
1 Camaraderie
3 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Shapers'Sanctuary
1 Seal Away
2 Ixalan's Binding
1 Huatli, Radiant Champion
1 Gideon's Reproach
3 Centaur Peacemaker
1 Conclave Tribunal
Imo, Definitely think Ghalta should be making these decks.
But would note the sideboard, they definitely emphasize more control in the SB.
Find\\Finality is pretty good.
Also would a pure flyers deck work as an alternative or would it get too far away from the tempo based approach of the deck?
This doesn't help at all. It also doesn't add anything. So gonna just move on from it. Also would appreciate it if you moved on from it as well.
SB options
Deathgorge Scavenger
Eldest Reborn
Arguel's Blood fast
Did not see Vine Mare in any of those lists...may have to cut it.
11 Forest
5 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
Creatures (29)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Clancaller
4 Thorn Lieutenant
3 District Guide
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 Poison-Tip Archer
3 Underrealm Lich
2 Golgari Findbroker
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
3 Cast Down
3 Find \\ Finality
1 The Eldest Reborn
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Duress
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Arguel's Blood fast
2 Plaguecrafter
1 Vivien Reid
2 Vine mare
1 The eldest Reborn
I have definitely noticed that people run 3 copies of Find, pretty much a staple in most golgari decks.
Golgari Findbroker I am still somewhat out on this card but it seems to have found itself as a staple in decks because it can recover removal and just about anything out of the graveyard to keep the match grinding along.
I did see Memorial to Folly make some of those lists but I am not sure if that is the card I am looking for.
Deck feels a bit creature heavy at the moment, will do some more fine tuning as it moves a long. It may be that deck should start out aggro and then switch to control later and grind it's way forward. We do have a way to recover creatures back now after getting wiped out and can pull removal back as well. I'm tempted to add Ochran Assassin, granted the card is not very good but it may get me out of a jam during a boardstall and allow me to close out a match against tokens/aggro.
ey you do you man. You do you. Granted, as far as useful dialogue you didn't really offer up any either...
agree to disagree, that is assuming that it comes out T3 which if you ramp you need more lands to get it to come out on T2. In any case, I'm not a firm believer that you have to have that many lands to support a triple source. I also don't believe 1 mana source should backbreak a deck. Again, he stated those were guidelines and not hardline. But hey I'm going to move on. None of this is really helpful.