Meteor, with all due respect, 4 players voted for Godfather. Every one of the four votes, including yours, may be a scum buddy distancing. In fact, in my opinion, the least likely to distance is JT, who hammered when the vote with Riku was tied and could have gone either way. But again, not impossible.
And I am not saying I am concerned about you, I still have other people way higher on my suspect list, but I was uncomfortable with you being the last person to share, that's it. No need to get too defensive about it.
Well done town! Lynching godfather day 1 is simply brilliant.
Sadly I don't see the possible lock, but either way, I'd prefer it if you were not the last to claim, meteor. And I think JT can be among the last to claim.
Since the lot of you the lot of you think #168 isn't worth answering or giving a thought, the answer may impact the way you all see Vaimes. I didn't want to explain why before, because I didn't want it to affect your view of Vaimes if it turns out the theory doesn't hold, but since nobody answered me, I'm going to assume the chances for that are low and therefore, we all thought Riku is only a single vote away from being lynched. If that is true, I believe this shows Vaimes in a very townie sort of way. He was the only one besides me and GJ, who were already voting for Riku, who posted before tom explained some votes do not count and placed Riku at 1 vote. Vaimes had the opportunity to supposedly hammer Riku. I only see 2 options, why he didn't; either A), Vaimes and Riku are both scum and Vaimes doesn't want to hammer his scum buddy yet; or B), Vaimes is town, uncertain of Riku, and doesn't decide to hammer. I certainly don't see the possibility of Riku being town and Vaimes being scum.
Since I believe Riku is scum (more on that in a bit), that has little effect on my view of Vaimes (#204 makes me edgy), but it might have a bigger one for you, who believe Riku could be town.
I'm not sure why you people don't understand that you are all scummy... As my level of information is limited, therefore anything I see is from the viewpoint of I am the only confirmed townie to myself. Scum, on the other hand, have a partnr to rely on.
Nobody said we don't understand, afaik. And you are saying we should give you town cred for having no town reads, whilst people with town reads are scummy.
P.S. This is why scum are less afraid of being lynched then town. Town tend to be afraid of dying as they only know they are innocent, and no further information. I know, in theory, it should be scum who are afraid, but in practice, town are very often the more vocal and defensive of the two.
The two are not connected. Both try to win, and dying is bad. But town dying gives scum less new information (only role), while scum dying gives town huge amounts of information (role, but also conf scum, which can lead to other scum being exposed). And in my experience, scum is afraid to die more than town.
Now, if anyone wanted to know the stupid plan, it was to get one person to claim a cop and a group who they were investigating, but not reveal which person they were targeting. The next day reveal the result, still not revealing who they targeted. The people in the group would then reveal what they should have been revealed as. Etc etc. It was a stupid, optimistic plan based on flawed reason and my idiocy.
I don't see why you couldn't share this with us when you realized it won't go through, but ok... NAI.
If I am to die, then the two groupings that make the most sense to me are
Meteor / Tiger
Meteor / GJ.
The followup is Vaimes as scum (Idk How, but its the next likely option) with one of those three.
What I don't get is, if Meteor is your top scum read, why don't you vote for him? You haven't voted yet in the game, if I recall correctly, and yet you claim how we are all scummy all the time.
Oh, and I don't know what to think of JT/silver exchange, will have to re-read it. First impression; JT looks better than silver.
Bussing isn't that bad for wolves, don't think. They still only need two mislynches, if Ruma is town they probably aren't even in danger of getting their partner lynched at this point. Like, I'd raise my eyebrow at bussing the godfather because its much harder for the framer to go deep but... if the framer flips, I'd bet the godfather is on the wagon.
I agree with most of this. I wouldn't be exactly sure godfather would be on the framer wagon, but I wouldn't be sure he is off it either.
I guess I'm just gonna go ahead and say I think Ruma is the miller since you guys are insisting he claims / trying to lynch him still. That post he made where he magic bagged makes no sense for him to make as a wolf... Like, if he's a wolf who thinks he's going down, he just hard claims miller if he's trying to draw a counter claim.
If it was a doctor role in question and not a miller, I'd say you are right. But going into dipole to fish out a miller? If I were scum, I wouldn't do that. In Riku's position, I'd only reveal if I really was town miller. In that case, I'd reveal as soon as I reached 3 votes. This would make me safe from the lynch and would give town the chance to hit scum, or would force scum to counter-claim and reveal themselves. Both are better options for town than miller going down in a lynch without revealing. However, as scum or non-miller town, I'd try to convince the rest of the players I'm innocent and not go down the miller rabbit hole at all.
I just thought of something. How likely do you guys think any one of us asked tom via PM if votes on Riku instead of Rumanshi count, before tom revealed that in #123?
@Tiger47: Could you explain your Vaimes read a bit more? Would you expect wolf!Vaimes to feel pressured for some reason?
Yes, as I said in the previous post, I firmly believe scum should be worried about getting lynched, not town. The fact that some of you sughest otherwise worries me.
But I do have to admit I was focusing more on Riku and JT and that Vaimes was more of a gut read. Will have to ISO read him when I'll have the time. Probably not before the weekend.
To those who say I should respond to concerns... Nah, screw that. I'll address something that I feel is important, but if you raise a concern that is mediocre, eh, why should I care? You could be scum *Shrugs*
I strongly dislike the "you could be scum so I'll ignore whatever the hell I want" stance. This is nothing more than dodging questions. If you feel they are not legitimate, ahow us why and put pressure on those asking them.
"MS deciding not to follow GJs instructions on who to vote surprised me in a good way. But it would be bad for MS if Abu is lynched and flips scum."
Is abu going to flip scum?
Only Abu and scum team (possible overlap) know that.
"Vaimes' interaction with GJ is also something I like, feels like he is not feeling under pressure, which would translate into town."
That translates to scum, not town... Town tend to feel pressure more than scum... I guess that is a player thing though, so I'd need to remember if Vaimes is a pressured town or pressured scum.
I wildly disagree. Townie should not be afraid to die, unless at LYLO or MYLO. It gives town a data point and is much less damaging to lose one townie for town than it is to lose pne scum for scum. I have no idea whatsoever why in the world should it be just the other way around.
"GJ then switching to Riku is also good. Feeling good about the four of us at this moment. "
Of the exact opposite opinion due to the difference in where pressure is felt.
Except it's not. I don't feel any of the three feel afraid of being lynched and I know for a fact I'm town.
"I like that JT answered me, but something still feels kinda off. Cant put my finger on it right now."
Are you placing suspicion on JT because he's town, or because he's a scummbuddy. Or are you a paranoid town?
Ouy of the three, I'd say paranoid town. Are you making my statements look shady because I'm town, or because I'm your scumbuddy. Or are you a paranoid town?
"Abu and Riku need to answer concerns raised against them as soon as possible."
As I said earlier, screw that. I'll either play to the point people remove their suspicions, or get lynched because of it. I'll answer concerns by playing, not by responding (Cause responding is one sure way to let scum push a lynch on town.)
Yeah. Or it is a sure way, to, you know... Answer concerns and help fellow townies understand what the hell you're doing.
"If I count correctly, I believe there are three votes on Riku? Does the day end with the fourth hammer vote (1), or with a deadline (2)?"
There is no deadline. It takes a hammer to end a day.
"If 1, Riku should reveal if he is the miller and there really are three votes on him."
#1; Claiming is boring.
#2; At that point, having a miller is kind of useless, no?
#3; Better hope I'm not the miller
1)... But helpful.
2) Not at all. Mafia will want to kill you at night, and not a cop, and you save a townie - yourself - from being lynched. If they still want to lynch you, they have to create a dipole which is good for town.
3) I don't think you're the miller, I think you're scum, hence my vote.
Actually, #127 Vaimes feels so much like coasty scum that I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Vaimes is the scum you're looking for. How about look at it today, rather than tomorrow
You called both me and Vaimes potential scum in this post. Where is your vote?
Sorry, on a business trip for four days, will try to write as much as possible. Observations:
GJ deciding to take a leader role is not something I generally like, but it does match the behavior he showed before in this game and to be honest, someone had to take the lead.
MS deciding not to follow GJs instructions on who to vote surprised me in a good way. But it would be bad for MS if Abu is lynched and flips scum.
Vaimes' interaction with GJ is also something I like, feels like he is not feeling under pressure, which would translate into town.
GJ then switching to Riku is also good. Feeling good about the four of us at this moment.
I like that JT answered me, but something still feels kinda off. Cant put my finger on it right now.
Abu and Riku need to answer concerns raised against them as soon as possible.
If I count correctly, I believe there are three votes on Riku? Does the day end with the fourth hammer vote (1), or with a deadline (2)?
If 1, Riku should reveal if he is the miller and there really are three votes on him.
Glad to see the town getting more active. I like the recent contribution from Abu, I think he asked some good questions. Same goes for Vaimes. No really sold on both, but I think we have better lynch targets today. GJ and MS are also still off the table for me Day 1. Would love to hear GJ's input on recent town activity, though.
StinkyJoe is bordering scum for me. Lots of talk with no real essence. As Abu pointed out, most of the talk is of mechanics (except for #76). In addition, he has "misunderstood" rules more than once so far, which is a great excuse for lots of commenting and no real contribution. His #76 townread on me concerns me, because he pairs it with Vaimes - Vaimes is supposed to be town, unless he is scum exactly with me. I would understand some sort of pairing me with GJ or MS, I had enough interaction with both of them, but pairing me with Vaimes is... odd. I would like an explanation on what exactly makes you believe that. What ties do you see between me and Vaimes? Why can't Vaimes and I be in different teams?
I feel Rumanshi may be scum. All he contributed it literally just a cryptic plan, which obviously can't go into effect until Day 2. Basically no input on the players or on what was happening in thread, except for #58. Makes himself look valuable, because surely now we can't lynch him until we see what his plan was, and that's about it. Don't like it. His #58 is also the cause of great concern for me. He has claimed MS is scum, offered no evidence or theory to support this, and has not cast his vote. This does not feel town to me. It feels like scum, testing the waters, fishing for responses.
Vote: Rumanshi, but at this point, I would also settle for StinkyJoe lynch. Looking forward to answers from both Joe and Riku.
All I know so far is that I don't want to lynch you or GJ right now. And I don't want to lynch StinkyJoe until we see if it's a slot that needs replacement or just a player deciding not to engage.
I agree with GJ on this one. This town is not nearly active enough.
I know JoeTerry has the right to remain silent, but this is taking it a bit too far.
@Tom - Prod on JoeTerry?
I second this.
@Gentleman: I feel like we do not really understand each other. The problem was not that I wouldn't be happy with the answer you gave, but rather I felt there was an absence of an answer. I felt you made an impression there are tons of reasons, but avoided giving them. Since I did not see what the reasons could be, it felt like trying to appear above me, while giving no real essence and trying to shoot down an idea that could be bad for you. With your last few posts, you have changed my mind, and I apologize if I released too much info and alerted wolves to certain traps. This was not my intent. The only thing that is bugging me still is your reaction to my vote, but I guess it could be the way you play, since nobody else felt like this was even worth mentioning, so I am willing to retract my vote for now. Another thing that seems town aligned was calling me out as a wolf and then changing your mind in basically the same post (albeit it was actually posted in two parts, probably hit Post reply too soon). This does not seem like something a wolf would do.
And I am not saying I am concerned about you, I still have other people way higher on my suspect list, but I was uncomfortable with you being the last person to share, that's it. No need to get too defensive about it.
Sadly I don't see the possible lock, but either way, I'd prefer it if you were not the last to claim, meteor. And I think JT can be among the last to claim.
#218, you voted for me. Since then, I have not posted. Now, I am your strongest town read of the five. This makes no sense.
NO, FFS. God you just jumped on my scumlist.
Since I believe Riku is scum (more on that in a bit), that has little effect on my view of Vaimes (#204 makes me edgy), but it might have a bigger one for you, who believe Riku could be town.
Riku, you are full of *****.
Nobody said we don't understand, afaik. And you are saying we should give you town cred for having no town reads, whilst people with town reads are scummy.
The two are not connected. Both try to win, and dying is bad. But town dying gives scum less new information (only role), while scum dying gives town huge amounts of information (role, but also conf scum, which can lead to other scum being exposed). And in my experience, scum is afraid to die more than town.
I don't see why you couldn't share this with us when you realized it won't go through, but ok... NAI.
What I don't get is, if Meteor is your top scum read, why don't you vote for him? You haven't voted yet in the game, if I recall correctly, and yet you claim how we are all scummy all the time.
Oh, and I don't know what to think of JT/silver exchange, will have to re-read it. First impression; JT looks better than silver.
I agree with most of this. I wouldn't be exactly sure godfather would be on the framer wagon, but I wouldn't be sure he is off it either.
If it was a doctor role in question and not a miller, I'd say you are right. But going into dipole to fish out a miller? If I were scum, I wouldn't do that. In Riku's position, I'd only reveal if I really was town miller. In that case, I'd reveal as soon as I reached 3 votes. This would make me safe from the lynch and would give town the chance to hit scum, or would force scum to counter-claim and reveal themselves. Both are better options for town than miller going down in a lynch without revealing. However, as scum or non-miller town, I'd try to convince the rest of the players I'm innocent and not go down the miller rabbit hole at all.
Yes, as I said in the previous post, I firmly believe scum should be worried about getting lynched, not town. The fact that some of you sughest otherwise worries me.
But I do have to admit I was focusing more on Riku and JT and that Vaimes was more of a gut read. Will have to ISO read him when I'll have the time. Probably not before the weekend.
I strongly dislike the "you could be scum so I'll ignore whatever the hell I want" stance. This is nothing more than dodging questions. If you feel they are not legitimate, ahow us why and put pressure on those asking them.
Only Abu and scum team (possible overlap) know that.
I wildly disagree. Townie should not be afraid to die, unless at LYLO or MYLO. It gives town a data point and is much less damaging to lose one townie for town than it is to lose pne scum for scum. I have no idea whatsoever why in the world should it be just the other way around.
Except it's not. I don't feel any of the three feel afraid of being lynched and I know for a fact I'm town.
Ouy of the three, I'd say paranoid town. Are you making my statements look shady because I'm town, or because I'm your scumbuddy. Or are you a paranoid town?
Yeah. Or it is a sure way, to, you know... Answer concerns and help fellow townies understand what the hell you're doing.
Thanks.
1)... But helpful.
2) Not at all. Mafia will want to kill you at night, and not a cop, and you save a townie - yourself - from being lynched. If they still want to lynch you, they have to create a dipole which is good for town.
3) I don't think you're the miller, I think you're scum, hence my vote.
You called both me and Vaimes potential scum in this post. Where is your vote?
How very convenient.
GJ deciding to take a leader role is not something I generally like, but it does match the behavior he showed before in this game and to be honest, someone had to take the lead.
MS deciding not to follow GJs instructions on who to vote surprised me in a good way. But it would be bad for MS if Abu is lynched and flips scum.
Vaimes' interaction with GJ is also something I like, feels like he is not feeling under pressure, which would translate into town.
GJ then switching to Riku is also good. Feeling good about the four of us at this moment.
I like that JT answered me, but something still feels kinda off. Cant put my finger on it right now.
Abu and Riku need to answer concerns raised against them as soon as possible.
If I count correctly, I believe there are three votes on Riku? Does the day end with the fourth hammer vote (1), or with a deadline (2)?
If 1, Riku should reveal if he is the miller and there really are three votes on him.
If 2, when is the deadline?
StinkyJoe is bordering scum for me. Lots of talk with no real essence. As Abu pointed out, most of the talk is of mechanics (except for #76). In addition, he has "misunderstood" rules more than once so far, which is a great excuse for lots of commenting and no real contribution. His #76 townread on me concerns me, because he pairs it with Vaimes - Vaimes is supposed to be town, unless he is scum exactly with me. I would understand some sort of pairing me with GJ or MS, I had enough interaction with both of them, but pairing me with Vaimes is... odd. I would like an explanation on what exactly makes you believe that. What ties do you see between me and Vaimes? Why can't Vaimes and I be in different teams?
I feel Rumanshi may be scum. All he contributed it literally just a cryptic plan, which obviously can't go into effect until Day 2. Basically no input on the players or on what was happening in thread, except for #58. Makes himself look valuable, because surely now we can't lynch him until we see what his plan was, and that's about it. Don't like it. His #58 is also the cause of great concern for me. He has claimed MS is scum, offered no evidence or theory to support this, and has not cast his vote. This does not feel town to me. It feels like scum, testing the waters, fishing for responses.
Vote: Rumanshi, but at this point, I would also settle for StinkyJoe lynch. Looking forward to answers from both Joe and Riku.
I agree with GJ on this one. This town is not nearly active enough.
I second this.
@Gentleman: I feel like we do not really understand each other. The problem was not that I wouldn't be happy with the answer you gave, but rather I felt there was an absence of an answer. I felt you made an impression there are tons of reasons, but avoided giving them. Since I did not see what the reasons could be, it felt like trying to appear above me, while giving no real essence and trying to shoot down an idea that could be bad for you. With your last few posts, you have changed my mind, and I apologize if I released too much info and alerted wolves to certain traps. This was not my intent. The only thing that is bugging me still is your reaction to my vote, but I guess it could be the way you play, since nobody else felt like this was even worth mentioning, so I am willing to retract my vote for now. Another thing that seems town aligned was calling me out as a wolf and then changing your mind in basically the same post (albeit it was actually posted in two parts, probably hit Post reply too soon). This does not seem like something a wolf would do.
Unvote (is this a viable option?)