People here seem to not get that not every product is for you. I hate lord of the rings but im not going to tell everybody I play with that they can't play with me and my friends even though the cards they have are official black bordered magic cards. Not allowing those people to play with you potentially gets rid of their only way to play magic.
Selfish.
I don't know...I see this the same as Silver-Border cards. We normally can say yes or no to people using them in decks. I wouldn't want to push anyone away from the table, but as a Vorthos player its going to be very very hard playing a Nicol Bolas commander deck against a Gollum deck.
Yeah but the thing is they aren't silver border cards they're black border so it really doesn't matter much if people believe that others shouldn't be allowed to play them cause it's simply not their right to exclude people because they chose to play cards that are legal in the format, just because they don't like that they aren't from the magic lore. People are going to buy these cards expecting to be able to play them and if your playgroup decides not to play them thats fine but when some 16 year old kid shows up with their new Warhammer 40k deck they just purchased excited to play with the cards they bought and they're told they can't play with the local group because they decided those cards aren't allowed, the game could be completely ruined for them because they were excluded because they decided to buy cards someone else didn't like.
If that was really true, they would be legal in Standard and have the normal branding/look of normal MTG cards. I think even Wizards knows these are going to be fairly divisive for the current players versus new players.
To be honest the story in MTG only got bad the moment the game put more focus on Planeswalkers as critical to the story. Alpha until Gatewatch was the best time story-wise. The new stuff just seems so...Marvel.
Do you mean the story of Urza, who becomes a Planeswalker and influences the path of Dominaria for centuries? Or the story of the Thran and the man who destroyed them in an attempt to become a Planeswalker himself and while not becoming a Planeswalker, did still have find ways to interact with other planes? Or the story of Jodah and Jaya, a world-traveller and a Planeswalker, respectively? Or the story of the Weatherlight and it's crew, as they use the ship to walk to other planes and deal with the threats that are approaching their own? Or the story of Jhoira, Teferi, and Karn, as they deal with an interplanar threat and eventually become planeswalkers in two of three cases? Or the story of Kamahl, who's dealing with the ramifications of an extra-planar object of intense power?
Like...I understand the frustration with the modern story, even if I don't fully agree with it. I just think the idea of "The story didn't used to have Planeswalkers as critical to the story" is maybe a bit misguided. The only stories I can think of that don't involve Planeswalkers, soon to be Planeswalkers, people who still travel between planes without being Planeswalkers, or dealing with the ramifications of a Planeswalker are like... original Ravnica and maybe Kamigawa.
Lorwyn was a great story full of worldbuilding that didn't really feature planeswalkers. I'm also partial to The Mirage War, Ice Age and a number of other stories. I don't actually mind if a Planeswalker is involved to a degree, but like putting sugar in coffee, its possible to put too many in the one story. I absolute hate Marvel avenger type team ups and Power Ranger-like superhero generation that modern Planeswalkers are used as.
Planeswalkers should be singular the majority of time, rarely two and world-ending events three or more imo.
I've thought it through and I'm taking a break from the game and from the lore for a while.
We'll see how long it lasts as my investment in the game is pretty ingrained by now, but I can't help thinking that I possibly care about and prioritize Magic's setting and storyline at a deeper level than the staff (or at least the upper management) at WotC.
And that's not healthy.
There are loads of other franchises, series, and fandoms that do just as good, if not better jobs at developing engaging and consistent narratives.
Simply put: This game is not for me.
your choice but like I asked earlier why defend the storyline when ever since BFZ going forward especially war of the spark aftermath story it’s vast majorly is “boooooo”
the one and only reason it got interesting again is the phyrexians are finally coming back.
To be honest the story in MTG only got bad the moment the game put more focus on Planeswalkers as critical to the story. Alpha until Gatewatch was the best time story-wise. The new stuff just seems so...Marvel.
People here seem to not get that not every product is for you. I hate lord of the rings but im not going to tell everybody I play with that they can't play with me and my friends even though the cards they have are official black bordered magic cards. Not allowing those people to play with you potentially gets rid of their only way to play magic.
Selfish.
I don't know...I see this the same as Silver-Border cards. We normally can say yes or no to people using them in decks. I wouldn't want to push anyone away from the table, but as a Vorthos player its going to be very very hard playing a Nicol Bolas commander deck against a Gollum deck.
Yeah, after 20 years of supplementary products that you don't have to play with, including My Little Pony and Funko Pops, this is definitely is a step too far!
Eeh...to be fair, this is a little different. They intend to make these products 'as common as general mtg products'. Standard wise this is gonna be fine, but for every other format, depending on how many products we get it could be a bit jarring.
Part of me just finds it hilarious that Guns were such a 'no-no' for Ixalan and a 'mistake' for Portal 2, that one of the first one chosen is FULL of guns!
To me the concept isn't bad (though why Warhammer 40,000k and not Warhammer Fantasy Battles or Warhammer Age of Sigmar? Can we get guns on Ixalan now?). The problem for me is how saturated will it be with these products? and will it take the place of our yearly Commander product? (I hope not, Its our way of getting other story characters).
To me, its great until it gets to the point that at the average gaming session that I'm playing against more non-Magic Commander decks than Magic ones.
I'm with that I can accept crossovers as long as it just doesn't overthrow magic (which it shouldn't in my opinion)
and the commander decks i don't think we need to worry about that for one the standard set is doing those slightly weaker ones now
and im gonna throw the honest thruth it was right there in front of your portal three kingdoms isn't that technically a crossover set? (its pretty much this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms isn't it?)
I guess its an 'asthetics' thing. I can believe that somewhat, LOTR or Three Kingdoms fits in MTG, since its still the same sort of fantasy-looking theme. 40k is quite a departure though.
I hope they just elevate the other commander decks like the ones we got with Kaldheim into being 'proper' commander decks.
To me the concept isn't bad (though why Warhammer 40,000k and not Warhammer Fantasy Battles or Warhammer Age of Sigmar? Can we get guns on Ixalan now?). The problem for me is how saturated will it be with these products? and will it take the place of our yearly Commander product? (I hope not, Its our way of getting other story characters).
To me, its great until it gets to the point that at the average gaming session that I'm playing against more non-Magic Commander decks than Magic ones.
- China does not allow human skulls, so all the art is changed that has them, its a lot of art that is different just for China.
- Removing religious symbols from cards was to pander to the christian fanatics.
- Removing sexy depictions of women was to please the SJW movement.
- The diversity train is currently plowing through the art of Magic.
- More characters and art had to be forced into the game to please the LGBT* crowd.
Why is it an issue to make the game more inviting to more people? Is the game not having "sexy depictions of women" (which means less overtly sexualized depictions) and more racially diverse and LGBTQ+ characters taking something away from you? If I take your complaints literally, you must want a game of nothing but white guys and women in bikinis.
Seriously though, and I am asking this genuinely, what do feel you lose by someone different that you being able to identify with characters in the game the same way you can?
I think Wizard's diversity is doing great for minorities and women with Core 2021 having a lot of Black characters featuring prominently. My only complaint with Wizards is that its rare now we get a standard white male named character that isn't a vampire or antagonist or something along the lines. Lukka and Barrin are the only two recent ones I can think of.
I think this can be solved by just upping the number of Legendaries/Walkers per set again.
Sorcery
All White creatures in play are destroyed.
Would that apply as well?
Technically yes, although the connotation of ethnic cleansing of white people is mostly not about the Whiteness but about the subgroups "Jews, Armenians, Slavic..." but since there are examples of white cleansing like Haiti or the congo. It still is problematic.
Thats good to hear that it would apply the same. Should we be moving from mono-color board wipes?
I'd argue the Reparations card is more offensive than Cleanse; practically every people have experienced some form of ethnic cleansing through history.
My point was that "Cleanse" is not an offense word by nature.
99.9% of words require context to give them proper, accurate meaning, and holocaust certainly isn't among them.
It means what it means on its own or accompanied by other words before or after, whereas cleanse can clearly be used in many ways, the great majority of which are never offensive or meant cause discomfort.
Yeah an that context seems to be the problem cleanse on it's own wouldn't be a problem (seePlanar cleansing) the context of cleansing with the black creatures might be. Sure I didn't make that connection either but it's not a big jump. Just because not everyone makes the connection a card named tower crusher which is a 9/11 would still be problematic because people will make that connection.
Cleanse 2BB
Sorcery
All White creatures in play are destroyed.
Does that mean "Destroy all White creatures" should be removed?
Each person who focuses solely on the text is ignoring the context of a word like “cleanse,” which is unredeemable no matter which color(s) it references. Ethnic cleansing exists, presently and historically, well outside the bounds of the current movements.
Actually that is a good point. Even though Ethnic Cleansing was not the first thing that jumped to mind when reading the card given the good vs evil connotation and the depicted demons/devils.
Honestly early Wizards must have had some sickos in their ranks to think of these stuff.
Its probably more a reference to old Pen and Paper fantasy; where the Paladin cleanses the land of all the foul imps, abominations, demons, devils, undead (especially). Necromancy, Devilry, dark magic and the like are all represented by the colour Black which is traditionally negative in Western culture and mythology; especially Celtic!
Which makes it all the more tragic when something benign is coopted by toxic ideology. There’s no redeeming the swastika, the “okay” hand gesture is being flashed by cops in riot gear now, and this... paladins against dark forces is cool and all, until that guy plays Cleanse at an EDH table, makes an off color joke, and the owners of your LGS are too timid or uncaring to do anything about it. Tell me something similarly toxic has never happened at your LGS so I can come give them my money.
Now a debate about weak LGS owners who won't kick out someone trying to be racist on purpose sure, cause thats a problem. Western Mythology isn't.
If that was really true, they would be legal in Standard and have the normal branding/look of normal MTG cards. I think even Wizards knows these are going to be fairly divisive for the current players versus new players.
Lorwyn was a great story full of worldbuilding that didn't really feature planeswalkers. I'm also partial to The Mirage War, Ice Age and a number of other stories. I don't actually mind if a Planeswalker is involved to a degree, but like putting sugar in coffee, its possible to put too many in the one story. I absolute hate Marvel avenger type team ups and Power Ranger-like superhero generation that modern Planeswalkers are used as.
Planeswalkers should be singular the majority of time, rarely two and world-ending events three or more imo.
To be honest the story in MTG only got bad the moment the game put more focus on Planeswalkers as critical to the story. Alpha until Gatewatch was the best time story-wise. The new stuff just seems so...Marvel.
I don't know...I see this the same as Silver-Border cards. We normally can say yes or no to people using them in decks. I wouldn't want to push anyone away from the table, but as a Vorthos player its going to be very very hard playing a Nicol Bolas commander deck against a Gollum deck.
Well, we had two announced right away, plus the Walking Dead in the Secret lair. So probably around 1-3 a year.
Eeh...to be fair, this is a little different. They intend to make these products 'as common as general mtg products'. Standard wise this is gonna be fine, but for every other format, depending on how many products we get it could be a bit jarring.
I guess its an 'asthetics' thing. I can believe that somewhat, LOTR or Three Kingdoms fits in MTG, since its still the same sort of fantasy-looking theme. 40k is quite a departure though.
I hope they just elevate the other commander decks like the ones we got with Kaldheim into being 'proper' commander decks.
To me, its great until it gets to the point that at the average gaming session that I'm playing against more non-Magic Commander decks than Magic ones.
I think Wizard's diversity is doing great for minorities and women with Core 2021 having a lot of Black characters featuring prominently. My only complaint with Wizards is that its rare now we get a standard white male named character that isn't a vampire or antagonist or something along the lines. Lukka and Barrin are the only two recent ones I can think of.
I think this can be solved by just upping the number of Legendaries/Walkers per set again.
Thats good to hear that it would apply the same. Should we be moving from mono-color board wipes?
Cleanse 2BB
Sorcery
All White creatures in play are destroyed.
Would that apply as well?
Now a debate about weak LGS owners who won't kick out someone trying to be racist on purpose sure, cause thats a problem. Western Mythology isn't.