After playing more games, I realize that I really love stax effect in this deck.
Not effect like smokestack/tangle wire/lodestone golem, but something like winter orb and static orb as this list suggest.
I personally run Icy Manipulator to support these stax theme.
How about Storage Matrix?
I'm done hunting cards to build this deck and finally able to give it a try.
I don't own pricey wheel of fortune,bazaar and workshop.. can't afford them too. Let it be. May I replace wheel of fortune with magus of the wheel or wheel of fate or maybe saheeli's directive? For now I replace bazaar and workshop with mere mountains.
My list still minus arch of orazca, maze of ith, scalding tarn, memory jar, ugin, mox opal, and mycosynth lattice. 10 cards away from this thread list.
I replace them with 3 mountain, planar portal, trading post, thran dynamo, and crawlspace for now.
Do you run just the 4 of DR or throw in an extra PR?
Reasons? Thoughts?
As mentioned before me, 5 will be great on normal list, 6 or 7 for trash dragon list.
While playing with a lot of 4cc, I have to see at least 1 mana accel on my opening hand before keeping it, not being able to cast something on my 2nd turn will be disaster.
I currently run (1) Slagstorm and (1) Anger of the Gods, while having (2) Anger of the Gods in the Side. What's everyone's take on that it? Run 1, 2, or more? or none?
Before Sarkhan, I run 3 sweltering sun main.
After Sarkhan, 2 Slagstorm will be my choice especially because you can rummage your dead cards.
Me personally don't run any sweepers on my trash dragon md list, while majority member of this forum will suggest you to bring at least 2.
Almost got the 15-0 but lost to the luckiest of luckiest human's player I've ever seen. don't beleive me, then go check the replay. It was past midnight last night, so I forgot to upload it to YouTube, but it should still be on twitch. I'll upload it to youtube tonight.
So, 14-1 with Pyro Prison, using the same 60 maindeck as Dev above and what's been posted twice on the MTGO decklist pages. Some Observations:
The maindeck is as close to perfect as we can get. every card has been stellar and Sarkhan has been amazing. I think two is the correct number, as there are many decks right now that are so fast, if you take a turn off to cast Sarkhan, you might not get to untap. Koth has been mediocre, but I find him to be a necessity. you have an 80% chance to draw a bridge before Koth, which are good odds. Plus, he's the fastest planeswalker in the game to ultimate. Literally, turn one, turn two, ultimate. Opponent needs to deal with Koth IMMEDIAETLY, or the emblem wrecks face.
Sidebaord, I'm going to change something....Chainwhirler is coming out completely. I think wither a 2nd cage or a third Anger is the way to go. I haven't decided yet. Anger is better vs affinity, mardu pyromancer, and humans. Cage us better vs collected company and hollow-one. Although different, they do similar work vs. vengevine and dredge. So, I don't know which I am going to play. I feel like all you need to do is draw one and games can swing wildly in your favor, leading me to play 2 cage and 2 anger, but I'm undecided on that. Curious to hear thought on this. @ cage and 2 anger or 1 cage and 3 anger. Or do we leave the chainwhirler in there?
Tried Trash Dragons last night too and that was a blast to play. going all-in with zero interaction takes balls of steel, but with a name like RayStack, do you expect anything else? Hands were terrible and we limped our way to a 3-2 finish and got out money back. I feel like the deck is much more explosive than what we saw last night and I'm willing to give it another try. The last of interaction was a minor concern, but it worked. Trash Dragons puts so many must answer things in play, that the opponent has a hard time setting up his plan because he's dealing with yours. I couldn't see this working vs a control or combo deck, which is one of the matches we lost to. UW control faced some of our best draws can cards and handled them with ease. I think I'm going to experiment with that list some more and see if I can find a way to make trash dragons work. I might have to go back to the bridge-less version, play the full set of Sarkhans. No, not Todd Steven's Skred Dragons list, were still using blood moons and rituals and chalices. But if our dragons can kill stuff, it might work. Wouls still run slagstorm maindeck because vs tron and control, anger is just a dead card....but I guess we can filter it away with Sarkhan. gonna have to brew. I'm thinking 4 Sarkhan, 4 Glorybringer, Hazoret....yeah, this could work....
Thank you master, for proving sarkhan is amazing, as a part of almost perfect pyro prison, even without one single dragon in our 75.
I really like to play that almost perfect list, but because its difficulity (I still can't play walking ballista properly), I chose Trash Dragon instead.
Bridgeless and take more dragons in are the most common thing to start but Ray show us the other way and it works only with 2 avaricious (and more explosiveness). Can't wait to see you piloting this deck..
Zayl made mention of a tournament report I crafted in the guise of Star Trek fan fiction back in April of 2017. Like a once young Starfleet cadet, James Kirk, I was presented with a No-Win Situation. Here is the tale -- but, first, a mountain high-five to Russ on another 5-0.
Fair to note: At this point in the history of Pyro Prison's development, things were relatively quiet on the message boards. I had a couple Top 8s in an SCG IQ & 1K, but it's some months before Russ' and my notable finishes shook up the Modern community. So, I had to keep the kinfolk entertained. Thus, The Wrath of Koth.
STAR TREK II
The Wrath of Koth
Saavik: On the Kobayashi Maru scenario, sir... will you tell me what you did? I would really like to know. McCoy: Lieutenant, you are looking at the only Starfleet cadet who ever beat the no-win scenario.
Saavik: How? Kirk: I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to rescue the ship.
Saavik: What? David Marcus: He cheated.
Kirk: I changed the conditions of the test; got a commendation for original thinking. I don't like to lose.
Saavik: Then you never faced that situation... faced death. Kirk: I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
More on that dialogue later, Mountainfolk -- I'm just setting the tone.
FNM - 20 People - 4 Rounds. It was another undefeated performance for my RED Prison / Hammer's Slammer: Between the Hammer and the Anvil. In 2017 paper tournaments, that tallies up to 28 wins and 6 losses: 82% win percentage. On to the report......
Round 1: G/x Tron - In game 1, we both flood for a while until his inevitable top deck threats annihilate. Game 2 has me casting (4) Blood Moons and his constant Karn Liberated assault wasn't enough. Game 3 was more of the same with Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Rabble/Rabble doing their work as they did in the previous game.
SIDEBOARDING
IN: 2 Shattering Spree / 4 Goblin Rabblemaster / Magus of the Moon
OUT: Walking Ballista / Crystal Ball / 3 Ensnaring Bridge / 2 Slagstorm
Round 2: Grixis Death Shadow - The Triple Power Lock Suite were key for the wins. For sideboarding, I trim down on the acceleration in lieu of creatures threats, and he just doesn't have enough answers. But, truthfully, he was land light & unable to fetch out from under a blood moon - not the best contest. I would say I won, but not that he lost; if that makes any sense.
Round 4: We'll come back to Round 3 in a minute. Jund Death Shadow - I feel like I could play this matchup all night - so fun. This deck is much easier to beat than Jund. Reason? Chalice of the Void. It just houses that whole deck (except tarmogoofy, but the graveyards are hardly as full when he can't cast his hand out ).
SIDEBOARDING: He did nothing and I did (8)
IN: 4 Goblin Rabblemaster / Roast / Pithing Needle / Magus of the Moon / Ratchet Bomb
OUT: Walking Ballista / Koth of the Hammer / Chandra, Torch of Defiance / Crystal Ball / 2 Magma Jet / 2 Slagstorm
Aaaaaaand, Round 3 - Ding Ding Ding
Round 3: Melira-Viscera-Coco
Spock: The Kobayashi Maru scenario frequently wreaks havoc on students and equipment. As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique? Kirk: It had the virtue of never having been tried.
We seat ourselves, and Sam says, "You know, of all my friends who heard about or saw our match, I was the least bothered by how you beat me last time. You pulled off two Turn-1 Blood Moons." I cordially reply, "Oh, yeah - I remember. Abzan is my worst matchup. I got lucky." We chat about how both of our decks are of the Prison/Combo variety for the win: kinda happens or it doesn't.
Game 1: I rip a turn 1 Koth of the Hammer. He starts out a little slowly. I rip a turn 2 Blood Moon. Later, I've ultimated into Emblem and hold one card in my hand: Slagstorm. He fires off a Chord of Calling and plops a Viscera Seer beside a Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Kitchen Finks. Sam goes to infinite life. AND: He can scry his deck into a perfect draw each turn, and he can eventually bolster his creatures into unimaginably powerful titans. It didn't 'kinda happen'. It absolutely, motherhumpin' happened - His deck just won magic.
He looked at me. I knew he wanted me to offer my sword. It's the chivalrous and expected action in gentleman's warfare. I looked at my board: 3 mountains, a chalice on 1, a blood moon, and a Koth emblem. He had those three creatures and 3 land. I only had one card, a slagstorm, in hand. I paused. I thought of Captain James Tiberius Kirk.
I also don't believe in the no-win scenario. "Let's play it out." He sighed. Understandably, he's looking for the courtesy. After all, the two of us just had this very discussion. Any onlooker would think me delusional, even disrespectful, to fight on. But, I believed I could take his sword.
I untap and slagstorm. Ensnaring Bridge soon followed alongside more precious mountains. "Judge!" I ask about determining a comparative library card count (read: concession)? He looks up the process as the game meanders through a few more turns. Resolution: we lay out our decks in stacks of 10 and it's verified that I have him by exactly 1 card on a draw out. At that point, Sam shares that if he can properly execute back-to-back collected company, he can capture the win. But, the odds were - in his word - 'infinitesimal'. Incredulously, then it happened. He conceded.
Kobayashi Maru got hammered to the mat and counted out....for the 2nd time.
This.. this...
I believe this is for me for nagging too much about how can't I win against coco.
This is definitely the most inspirational words I've read this year.
Oh my..
Ok guys I have a serious question. I mentioned recently on Discord that I've encountered 66 different archetypes in Modern in 2018 (now 67 after last night). I feel like I know the format pretty well. I went looking through 5-0 lists, I found a vexing one that not only has 1 5-0 but multiple by the same player.. So someone please explain WTFFF...
I've tried Norn's Annex in the past, never amaze me for these reasons :
1. Never want to drop bridge-like cards on turn 1,
2. It only affects greatly non-white decks with a lot creatures, which is usually have small (thoughness) and die to our sweeper.
But...with a new shell, where we bring more dragons inside, you are right about one-side semi bridge effect, I will definitely give Annex another shot.
One thing, no dragons will be able to replace rabblemaster for now. Me myself have tried to remove bridge to put more dragons (9 in total) with 6 rituals, and still will do some tests for it, but rabblemaster can't be replaced..
Indeed. I want more than anything to fit him in.
Me will go with ..
- 2 Abrade
- 1 Sweltering Sun
- 4 Thunderbreak Regent
- 2 Thundermaw Hellkite
- 1 Mountain
So I have been pretty busy enjoying my summer and my time with Magic has suffered, a bit. I have been dinking around on Mtg Arena and have really enjoyed playing with Sarkhan in a variety of builds. It just sort of sucks that all of the good dragons soon rotate and he will mainly be used to splash for the elder dragons, but that's standard for you. Because of this, and the recent success of Skred Dragons, I have been more and more wanting to build a dragon-based Pyro Prison Deck. I would like to keep the basic ramp ideas the same, have early moons and chalices available. Bridge is problematic, as the dragons are there to get busy. I know Russ has tinkered with the idea of going bridgeless, but I'm not sure we had the payoffs, or real reason to, back then. (You know, before core 19...way back then.) I'm curious if anything has been brewed up by anyone here? This is what I have, but very open to ideas:
I like to think it embodies the Pyro Prison mentality, just a bit experimental. As stated above, one of my concerns is combining bridge with dragons. I was digging around on Gatherer and noticed some spice in Norn's Annex. Now, Ensnaring Bridge this is not, but it does force your opponent to make some interesting decisions, especially if they go wide/small. We will never have to worry about not being able to get it down because of an odd chalice on 3. We can cast it without the white, and could potentially be out on t1, but it costs you 4 life. I'm not sure that is the worst thing when you can beat face with big ol' dragons and punish an aggro opponent in the meantime. I like the dragon selection to boost Sarkhan's value outside of filtering. Thundermaw is great for pushing through a large chunk. Chandra does what she does, and the rest is pretty routine. Not sure if the 5-drop count is too high, but I feel it might be. I went up to 22 land, but maybe I drop a glorybringer. If so, potentially play an additional sweeper to keep the board clear while I wait to drop beaters. Or go up a ritual to more consistently drop dragons on t2/3/4. Not sure if that is a great call, though, as I'd only have 11 dragons in the deck then. Plus, most t1/2 should be dedicated to setting up early lock pieces. In that regard, they do help. Not sure which provides more benefit, tbh. I might change it up and sway towards what Ray is doing in the MB and just balls-out ramp into things.
The sideboard is a little up-in-the-air, atm. I figure Scab-clan and Eidolon are good against decks that they are now and let us get small if we need to. Rabblemaster will be missed, but we could always toss in the whole fam to the side and run them out game 2, and play it like we normally play our game 1. That said, I would probably be more inclined to venture Ray's way and toolbox it out.
Mostly, I just want to jam dragons and play chalice or blood moon on t1. Anyone got any thoughts or experiences so far?
Also, as for the traditional Pyro Prison, I have been thinking about what has really blown me out lately, and it is almost always a chalice/bridge getting blown up. I tried welding jar a while back, but didnt like it. Creatures dying when I am trying to race is also the worst. Infect uses Apostle's Blessing to prevent the blowout. The "target artifact" clause has me thinking... It's also pretty spicy. Granted, I suppose Skellskite is more effective.
Maybe I'k just on a phyrexian mana kick, but Marrow Shards could help some poorer, low to the ground matchups. (Or I'm just still thinking about getting blown out by goblins today. So fast!) Surgical is also a great card and I know I saw it mentioned in here semi-recently.
I've tried Norn's Annex in the past, never amaze me for these reasons :
1. Never want to drop bridge-like cards on turn 1,
2. It only affects greatly non-white decks with a lot creatures, which is usually have small (thoughness) and die to our sweeper.
But...with a new shell, where we bring more dragons inside, you are right about one-side semi bridge effect, I will definitely give Annex another shot.
One thing, no dragons will be able to replace rabblemaster for now. Me myself have tried to remove bridge to put more dragons (9 in total) with 6 rituals, and still will do some tests for it, but rabblemaster can't be replaced..
7 Rounds, I went 6-1 with 1 only one game loss to B/R Hollow One in my win column and a resounding 0-2 loss to Selesnya Value in my loss column. According to my construction, the G/W loss is not a surprise. I run 0 sweepers in the main. I run 0 abrade/bolt/magma jet/walking ballista in the main. This matchup is my weakness. Yet, I do run a whole lot of 'silver bullet' shutdown in the sideboard.
So, there's a 'swingy' chance outside of a 'fair' approach at the win. Reasoning behind my willful negligence: the latest Top Decks have been very, very meta dependent. You can not beat all of them all of the time. And, if that's true, then I will not dedicate main deck slots to 1-for-1 removal and Sweeper plays that can be better addressed by Bridge/Piran/Rabbles/Chandras.
Indeed, when you look at this construction, one wonders:
is it strong enough against creature aggro?
is it strong enough against control/combo?
Neither. I believe it's strong enough on its own. The latest tradition around the campfire has been creature-ramp-ting: the sideboard cards of eidolon/scab-clan are serviceable against either archetype, but not specialized enough to dominate. Trash Dragon (sideboard) construction relies upon 'toolbox' options that hit with uppercut force, not just a 2/2 which can be lost with minimal repercussion.
All that said, I - for lack of a better term - can't proclaim these wins to be unrivaled. Far from it! Russ scorched a 20/285 win a couple weeks ago with a traditional stock build - finely tuned by his own hand. There's lots of room for success. It's not like Trash Dragons took down a 2-day 17 round event - simply that it's been consistently successful in results since inception. Let's keep cracking on all the different versions of Pyro Prison.
Hi Ray, congrats for your result, it's really great to see your list.
3 Sarkhan and (at least) 10 mana accelerator will also be my shell for the future.
And you were right, I remember you said something about Avaricious Dragon, and I have to agree 2 is a good number. Casting it as soon as possible was really tempting, but it prove as wrong move most of the time, especially when you have to discard more than 1 cards first.
I never have a good time with Piran and Hazoret, so I bring Glorybringer instead of their place. Especially Piran, when 2 tokens that supposed to be soft clock, only come as random blocker to buy me time until I found better answer. In comparison, my opinion is like this:
Rabblemaster - good with or without bridge
Piran - good only with bridge
Glorybrunfer - good without bridge, great with sarkhan
Until yesterday in one testing moment, I manage to do Sarkhan's ultimate, and using Piran to sac the bridge is really good moment. Also since you bring no sweeper, they will live longer than usual. So I decide I will run them too for the next tourney.
I still have things to do about Hazoret tough.
One thing, 4 Chandra ToD and 3 Sarkhan, call me bold but..is there time when you fell you want the opposite? More sarkhan and less chandra?
EDIT : which one do you miss more? Maindeck sweeper or abrade?
@stickballruss
Ok I'll take your advice I'll add a third eidolon and a spellskite for the 2 scab clans
My list is stock the usual
21 lands
5 ritual
4 ssg
4 chandra
4 bridge
4 chalice
4 moon
4 abrade
2 sweltering suns
4 rabble
2 p&k
2 ballista
Plus the sideboard I posted above thanks for the advice I'll get my hands on the 3rd eidolon and toss in the spellskite I never thought to take out the ballista but it makes sense. Also what's the game plan against jund I've only played against it once with this deck it seems like and early moon + chalice on 1 is sweet but other than that what what are we looking for against them ?
Hello everyone, I have been a silent supporter and avid reader of this thread. I love pyro red prison!!! I have been reading about people play testing dragons and sharkan.
I have a really weird idea. How do you all feel about bottled cloister with ensnaring bridge? 1 sided bridge with extra card draw.
-really big fan and my local Modern players love/hate me. Lol
Bottled cloister refill your ammo, nice with bridge, but don't win you the game.
Avaricious Dragon also refill your ammo, non-bo with the bridge but nice with sarkhan, and 4/4 flyer can win you the game.
Your choice, but in my opinion, I want 4 cc cards to win me the game..
You can try Fluffy' new list contain Light Up The Stage (with some burn like Rift Bolt and Skewer the Critics).
Not effect like smokestack/tangle wire/lodestone golem, but something like winter orb and static orb as this list suggest.
I personally run Icy Manipulator to support these stax theme.
How about Storage Matrix?
4 - 4 vs The Gitrog Monster
3 - 1 vs Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
I can say I love this deck and the way I played it.
I don't own pricey wheel of fortune,bazaar and workshop.. can't afford them too. Let it be. May I replace wheel of fortune with magus of the wheel or wheel of fate or maybe saheeli's directive? For now I replace bazaar and workshop with mere mountains.
My list still minus arch of orazca, maze of ith, scalding tarn, memory jar, ugin, mox opal, and mycosynth lattice. 10 cards away from this thread list.
I replace them with 3 mountain, planar portal, trading post, thran dynamo, and crawlspace for now.
As mentioned before me, 5 will be great on normal list, 6 or 7 for trash dragon list.
While playing with a lot of 4cc, I have to see at least 1 mana accel on my opening hand before keeping it, not being able to cast something on my 2nd turn will be disaster.
Before Sarkhan, I run 3 sweltering sun main.
After Sarkhan, 2 Slagstorm will be my choice especially because you can rummage your dead cards.
Me personally don't run any sweepers on my trash dragon md list, while majority member of this forum will suggest you to bring at least 2.
Thank you master, for proving sarkhan is amazing, as a part of almost perfect pyro prison, even without one single dragon in our 75.
I really like to play that almost perfect list, but because its difficulity (I still can't play walking ballista properly), I chose Trash Dragon instead.
Bridgeless and take more dragons in are the most common thing to start but Ray show us the other way and it works only with 2 avaricious (and more explosiveness). Can't wait to see you piloting this deck..
This.. this...
I believe this is for me for nagging too much about how can't I win against coco.
This is definitely the most inspirational words I've read this year.
Oh my..
Me will go with ..
- 2 Abrade
- 1 Sweltering Sun
- 4 Thunderbreak Regent
- 2 Thundermaw Hellkite
- 1 Mountain
+ 1 Pyretic Ritual
+ 1 Chandra Torch of Defiance
+ 4 Goblin Rabblemaster
+ 2 Avaricious Dragon
+ 2 Norn's Annex
Let's try this one..
I've tried Norn's Annex in the past, never amaze me for these reasons :
1. Never want to drop bridge-like cards on turn 1,
2. It only affects greatly non-white decks with a lot creatures, which is usually have small (thoughness) and die to our sweeper.
But...with a new shell, where we bring more dragons inside, you are right about one-side semi bridge effect, I will definitely give Annex another shot.
One thing, no dragons will be able to replace rabblemaster for now. Me myself have tried to remove bridge to put more dragons (9 in total) with 6 rituals, and still will do some tests for it, but rabblemaster can't be replaced..
Hi Ray, congrats for your result, it's really great to see your list.
3 Sarkhan and (at least) 10 mana accelerator will also be my shell for the future.
And you were right, I remember you said something about Avaricious Dragon, and I have to agree 2 is a good number. Casting it as soon as possible was really tempting, but it prove as wrong move most of the time, especially when you have to discard more than 1 cards first.
I never have a good time with Piran and Hazoret, so I bring Glorybringer instead of their place. Especially Piran, when 2 tokens that supposed to be soft clock, only come as random blocker to buy me time until I found better answer. In comparison, my opinion is like this:
Rabblemaster - good with or without bridge
Piran - good only with bridge
Glorybrunfer - good without bridge, great with sarkhan
Until yesterday in one testing moment, I manage to do Sarkhan's ultimate, and using Piran to sac the bridge is really good moment. Also since you bring no sweeper, they will live longer than usual. So I decide I will run them too for the next tourney.
I still have things to do about Hazoret tough.
One thing, 4 Chandra ToD and 3 Sarkhan, call me bold but..is there time when you fell you want the opposite? More sarkhan and less chandra?
EDIT : which one do you miss more? Maindeck sweeper or abrade?
Glorybringer
So it's clear that Russ was born in 1982
Bottled cloister refill your ammo, nice with bridge, but don't win you the game.
Avaricious Dragon also refill your ammo, non-bo with the bridge but nice with sarkhan, and 4/4 flyer can win you the game.
Your choice, but in my opinion, I want 4 cc cards to win me the game..