Speaking of BBE. I played 4C DS for over a year, and I decided recently to return to a more midrange approach.
After testing The Rock & Jund, I have to admit that Midrange Decks lack gas in a metagame dominated by Combo. I test recently a mix-between Jund DS and Jund Midrange. I'm still working on the list, but after few leagues, I have a solid 67% winrate.
Hello everyone, I've spent a lot of time reading about this topic since playing Grixis Control.
I started with the deck in early 2017 for a season of Modern honorable with good results in GP and a Pro Tour qualification. I was playing a list close to C. Burkhart list with differents SB plans.
Then there were an update of the banlist, the arrival of BBE, Jace, Humans and the meta was completely shuffle.
I started again recently with the deck inspired by your latest versions, that I have almost all test on MTGO (YP, N. Bolas, Nimble, Tasigur, ...). Although the list should still evolve a lot with the upcoming tests, I also wanted to share my progress.
After encouraging results on MTGO, I decided to test the list on a IRL tournament (Win-a-Box). My pairings:
Humans - 2-1
UB Control - 0-2 (but the game was very tight)
Spirits - 1-1
UB Mill - 2-0
RG Ponza - 2-0
Top8 - Hollow One - 2-1, I give the victory to my opponent, because lack of time.
Conclusions with these tests :
1st - Kalitas / Thing in the Ice are very well positionned in the current metagame.
2nd - Although it was not obvious to play so much discard in the Archetype, an approach more midrange than control seems to be the right way to set up properly Thing in the Ice, Kalitas or Planeswalker for a solid late game plan. I try to cut all counter, but i think we need to keep some of them, including 2 Cryptic Command to have an answer to some painful permanent (Adoration, Leyline of Sanctify, RIP ...)
I'm not sure if Rise / Fall is really a good card yet. I wonder if an additional Kolaghan's Command would fit better to the deck.
For the sideboard part, it's classic, except Venser, which is like as a 3rd Cryptic to handle some painful permanent. It's also a very good answer in some MUs like Hollow One / Grixis DS (the card goes under Stubborn Denial)
I will read your feedback carefully, I intend to play Grixis again in GP.
After many tests, I'm not convinced that the splash W for LS is relevant in this metagame :
1 - Our threats are more difficult to manage since lightning bolt presence increase instead of fatal push, so the plan A DS + TBR is stronger ;
2 - Decks with LS, like mardu pyro, grind better.
On friday, i played one side event to practice :
- 2-1 Humans
- 2-1 BR Hollow one
- 2-0 Jund
Sunday
- 0-2 Martyr Life
- 2-0 Bogles
- 2-0 Affinity
- 2-0 Burn
- 1-2 Humans
- 1-2 Burn. I gave him the last game. Maybe this 3rd defeat against human was still in my head.
Drop.
We are close to a good performance, but these three defeats against humans showed me i have work before GP Pragues and master the MU.
The +++ :
- Liliana of the Veil is not so good in this metagame, and i thought the inclusion of 2x Snapcaster mage was really good to grind in midgame and keep advantage. Split 1/1 Lotv is enought.
- One-off tarfire is really nice for Tarmogoyf, Delirium and you can finish your opponent with Snap+choc. I like split him with a traditionnal lightning bolt.
The --- :
MD :
- Architect of will, maybe i can found a better slot ;
- 1x stubborn MD and keep 2 ? With so much humans in the metagame, 3 stubborn MD seems too much.
SB :
- 1/2x Nihil spellbomb. I'have played 3x copies for BR Hollow one, Mardu Pyro and KCI. Maybe 2 copies are OK with a one-off Surgical extraction ?
- 1x Izzet staticaster
- 1/2x Radiant flames
- 1x Ancient grudge
After testing The Rock & Jund, I have to admit that Midrange Decks lack gas in a metagame dominated by Combo. I test recently a mix-between Jund DS and Jund Midrange. I'm still working on the list, but after few leagues, I have a solid 67% winrate.
Creature
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
4 Street Wraith
2 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Death's Shadow
Land
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
1 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Mishra's Bauble
Instant
1 Tarfire
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Dismember
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Fatal Push
2 Assassin's Trophy
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Blood Moon
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Assassin's Trophy
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
The list keeps midrange forces, but offers threats earlier to close the games quickly against combo.
If some of you have already tested this kind of approach, I'm interested in your feedback.
I started with the deck in early 2017 for a season of Modern honorable with good results in GP and a Pro Tour qualification. I was playing a list close to C. Burkhart list with differents SB plans.
Here my 2017 list
Then there were an update of the banlist, the arrival of BBE, Jace, Humans and the meta was completely shuffle.
I started again recently with the deck inspired by your latest versions, that I have almost all test on MTGO (YP, N. Bolas, Nimble, Tasigur, ...). Although the list should still evolve a lot with the upcoming tests, I also wanted to share my progress.
2 Thing in the Ice
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Land
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Field of Ruin
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
Instant
2 Logic Knot
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Cryptic Command
2 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Rise // Fall
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Extirpate
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Dispel
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Consume the Meek
2 Negate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
After encouraging results on MTGO, I decided to test the list on a IRL tournament (Win-a-Box). My pairings:
Humans - 2-1
UB Control - 0-2 (but the game was very tight)
Spirits - 1-1
UB Mill - 2-0
RG Ponza - 2-0
Top8 - Hollow One - 2-1, I give the victory to my opponent, because lack of time.
Conclusions with these tests :
1st - Kalitas / Thing in the Ice are very well positionned in the current metagame.
2nd - Although it was not obvious to play so much discard in the Archetype, an approach more midrange than control seems to be the right way to set up properly Thing in the Ice, Kalitas or Planeswalker for a solid late game plan. I try to cut all counter, but i think we need to keep some of them, including 2 Cryptic Command to have an answer to some painful permanent (Adoration, Leyline of Sanctify, RIP ...)
I'm not sure if Rise / Fall is really a good card yet. I wonder if an additional Kolaghan's Command would fit better to the deck.
For the sideboard part, it's classic, except Venser, which is like as a 3rd Cryptic to handle some painful permanent. It's also a very good answer in some MUs like Hollow One / Grixis DS (the card goes under Stubborn Denial)
I will read your feedback carefully, I intend to play Grixis again in GP.
First post on this topic. I'm coming back from Barcelona where I played this list of traverse shadow (4C) :
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
4 Street Wraith
4 Death's Shadow
Land
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Mishra's Bauble
Instant
1 Tarfire
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Dismember
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Abrade
2 Golgari Charm
1 Radiant Flames
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
After many tests, I'm not convinced that the splash W for LS is relevant in this metagame :
1 - Our threats are more difficult to manage since lightning bolt presence increase instead of fatal push, so the plan A DS + TBR is stronger ;
2 - Decks with LS, like mardu pyro, grind better.
On friday, i played one side event to practice :
- 2-1 Humans
- 2-1 BR Hollow one
- 2-0 Jund
Saturday (2 byes)
- 2-0 RG Eldrazi
- 2-1 Jeskai
- 2-0 G Tron
- 1-2 Humans
- 0-2 Humans
- 2-0 Grixis DS
Sunday
- 0-2 Martyr Life
- 2-0 Bogles
- 2-0 Affinity
- 2-0 Burn
- 1-2 Humans
- 1-2 Burn. I gave him the last game. Maybe this 3rd defeat against human was still in my head.
Drop.
We are close to a good performance, but these three defeats against humans showed me i have work before GP Pragues and master the MU.
The +++ :
- Liliana of the Veil is not so good in this metagame, and i thought the inclusion of 2x Snapcaster mage was really good to grind in midgame and keep advantage. Split 1/1 Lotv is enought.
- One-off tarfire is really nice for Tarmogoyf, Delirium and you can finish your opponent with Snap+choc. I like split him with a traditionnal lightning bolt.
The --- :
MD :
- Architect of will, maybe i can found a better slot ;
- 1x stubborn MD and keep 2 ? With so much humans in the metagame, 3 stubborn MD seems too much.
SB :
- 1/2x Nihil spellbomb. I'have played 3x copies for BR Hollow one, Mardu Pyro and KCI. Maybe 2 copies are OK with a one-off Surgical extraction ?
- 1x Izzet staticaster
- 1/2x Radiant flames
- 1x Ancient grudge
+ 1x Abrade ?
+ 1/2x Pyroclasm ?
+ 1/2x Kolaghan's Command ?
+ 1/2x Surgical Extraction ?
+ 1/2x Grim Lavamancer ?
What's the best cards against humans ??
Thanks for reading,