#42 - I'm not sure what you mean by I didn't know what to say there? You could ask, you know -.- I feel like you very uncertain of how to approach them. #97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy? Probably should have edited that once I found out she was definitely referring to Tammy. #199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended... There was a timecode mistake. The tag said you said it on the 20th (after the game had ended) but I checked it with the time and that said 19th (which was before the game ended). So my bad. #200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME This feels kinda aggressive and I'm going to back off from this because you had a case on me later. #263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town. Eh I'll get to it eventually, and I vaguely remember that now that you said it.
So you and Grape haven't played together recently then? Wouldn't that suggest it gave time for both your metas to change?
Oh, I think I might've applied the wrong theorem to what Tubba was saying. I was saying it as if he were applying it to his own standards, but he was applying it to how they usually acted. So it was a hybrid meta/volume tell. I must've misunderstood.
@SRage your big wagon on me is two votes... And saying you started it while accurate misses that it was RE and Foopme who were vocally expressing suspicion of me, you just asked RE to vote me with you after a post that usually has a vote in it.
There's something weird about this. Can't put my finger on it, but it's weird.
I thought the osie frustration wall was pure thought and showcased well all the reasons I’ve been frustrated with Osie’s slot and put my perspective “on my sleeve” in a sense - not really a lot to do with me believing it’s a team game I don’t think, maybe I’m missing the boat there but it just feels like a statement of fact about my play as either alignment rather than because I play a team game, that post was townie
I agree partially. I thought you were expressing frustration about something when boiled down is mafia theory, aka how to play the game. That post was good, it was right, it was also objective. Confirmation bias probably made the post seem more scummy than not, but in the end I think it's something capable of being said by either alignment. The frustration seemed genuine, I'm not denying that.
No, this wasn't the answer that would have helped me. Sorry.
I don’t have specifics about tubba that make me think he’s townie, I’ve just only been pinged by his grape read which I can view as a townie perspective now.
That's a little surprising to me, mainly because by this logic, I would have thought his inclination to vote Osie if he were to place a vote would line up more with your views. I don't disagree with this logic, but I also think it's a really minor read with almost no push (so it comes with almost no repercussion if they are W/W).
Why aren’t you pushing harder to shove me out of town circles? Why aren’t you trying to lunch people that would be my partners? Why are you just throwing small statements that I’m scum over and over?
I was flat out told by Tammy that she didn't care about my read on you. If I recall correctly, it's been mentioned a couple times that those who have played with you wouldn't touch you until several days into the game. Okay. If my read on you isn't receptive by others, then there's little I can do. What I've attacked you for has been dismissed by others as within your town meta. I'm not going to get you today, I'm going to get you through flips. And if I'm wrong about you, those flips will help me see it.
Grape. Marko. I'm fine with those guys being your partners (more accurately scum in general).
Because that's how I play...? I throw in what I'm thinking, cause that's how I can enjoy the game. Eh, I can sorta see why that'd be annoying. But without doing so, there's no way for me to know if I'm justified in those thoughts. I'm fine if people disagree?
As for why I'm not voting you, it's for similar reasons to ScarletC. More of a threshold for me to be wrong. Plus Grape is just on a whole other tier of scumminess than you. I'm not really sure why you think that's a good question when I've made it clear my preference has been Grape this whole time.
Also. Me not asking about Ara has more to do with Ara being in my blind spot right now.
Okay, let's see. Why are you voting Marko when his train is unlikely to pick up due to being a lurker and you could be voting one of Grape and Osie where your vote might actually cause game movement? Are you voting him purely because you want him to be more active (which doesn't seem like it's going to work), or was there something else to it? One of your last comments on him was that his post calling Ara's tone village was villagery, did something change your mind on that?
I'm in a zoom right now (video mafia) but that question is INFINITELY better and this is how you ******* DO IT KIDDO. It shows attention and the things that bug you are apparent DO MORE LIKE THAT YOU ******* BEAAUTIFUL ANIMAL
I'm kinda drunk but **** it let's go
Marko I was hoping would just magically appear if I voted him. It's really tough because I can understand him just having a busy life and not caring about this game that much but an older scum tell for him was his inactivity. It's honestly just frustrating because if he spewed himself town I would literally hard sheep him to the end of the game and probably win or at least discuss ***** with him enough to know where to go properly. I'm hopeful that he's town based on what he's posted so far but at the same time the content is minimal and I could see him making all the posts he's made as mafia. It's very hard for me to deal with marko because of my relationship with him. I think he knows this as well. I won't lie I've been slightly waiting for marko to spew an alignment to ******* rekt this game in because if he posted more than 50 times I think I would know or if I was pocketed would be able to deal with it as time goes on.
BURY ME DADDY
The last time I saw a drunk post I got pocketed by scum. I hope you're not scum.
I feel like this is showing genuine anger, less directed at RE and more at the inability to determine Marko's alignment and I like that.
I think your questions are mundane in that they offer a small window into my perspective that you’ve been actively disagreeing with. I don’t see an answer to me saying why my posts are townie being something that you would be able to read me properly on as it’s jusy a self reflection.
Questions you should have asked would have been like “what about ara’s play outshines the pings you have on her, why is she still a villager, what reads of hers did you like?” Because that offers a stronger sense of perspective and shows you actually care about the answer
Did you care about the answer I just gave about why my wall was townie to me?
Can you explain the bolded please? Aren't those just the questions that could come into your mind, and perhaps RE has a different perspective to you?
RE imma be real with you I’m gonna stop answering your questions or really interacting with you wrt my alignment or posts because it doesn’t really feel like you’re trying to sort me or gleam my perspective, just feels like you’re trying to find ways to scum read all my posts. Not saying you’re doing that as scum; just think that’s where your mindset is with me
If you feel that I'm searching for ways to scum read your posts, I'll say I wouldn't need to ask you questions if that were the case. For example, if you didn't agree with Ara's reasoning in townreading some of your posts but believed those posts were townie, then I feel it's within reason to expect you to explain why you thought your posts were townie? I didn't ask that question because I wanted to push you, but that there was no way for me to come to that answer on my own. I'll try to tone my aggressiveness down, but saying this doesn't really help?
Like, coincidentally or not, scum (Mrs White) did the same thing to me in the Anon Cluedo game I linked:
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
I wrote a really long pissed off post about osie like 5 hours ago and then decided not to post it.
I saved it though and might post it tomorrow. Basically stop AtEing and go hunt scum, you have grape as your most scummy person and they're generally at the lower end of peoples lists so the game should be going pretty well from your position?
I read some things even though I mostly just had fun tonight. I think tubba is town fairly solidly rn.
trobs MIA kinda random? I don't remember their last post.
ara town >rand, I think I'm just gonna give in to it for now but I still feel like some of the things they listed for me being townie were like too abrupt. But if I don't god read and tinfoil they'll live longer which is cool.
Osie should stop AtEing and start burying grape into the ground. Make more posts that show you're thirsty to find out alignments and question deeper into things. I hate AtE like a lot so I'm going to hammer it home. Hell bury me into the ground maybe it'll help me read you better, you thought my posts were fluffy and put me in "unenthusiastic", do you think I'm mafia? Why? I can't read people who just roll over like that. I'm trying not to rewrite all the stuff that upset me before and focus on the positive direction aspects that you can take.
This is a bad post and should be read as a bad post :wave:
Because I'm my usual self: this is an OK post.
I probably have just as much issue with osie's AtE as you do. Personally, I hate it. It accomplishes nothing but I have seen it from either alignment. I can usually get the feeling from what alignment it comes from, and with this it makes me feel as if they're scum. Experience is no boundary to try and point out issues, even at a basic level.
The part about not pushing is better though. To me it's like (Tubba misquote here) "osie is shading everyone" except RE. This exception I feel comes from a simple reason: scum don't push obvious Town. Scum do go with the flow and keep options open.
The bolded seems a bit in the realms of commentary mode (I'd like you to explain more concerning Tubba) and can people please stop talking about the disappearances? (Like, this is a 2-week game so people are bound to get distracted by things such as real life.)
@RE basically what you said in the second post was my opinion of your SCelestial take. Which sounds like voting someone for being different. It was the impression I got from your quote explaining your vote.
Anyway I never intentionally use false reasoning. You know my scum game, you know my town game. I don't make crap up. I get things wrong when I'm disengaged but I don't make things up. Anyone who intentionally uses false reasoning is playing scum wrong.
Anyway I haven't addressed the stuff from before I vanished because A: I've had plenty to address in the present B: troba hasn't been around and C: no one has asked me about it.
Anyway on Osie I don't buy that he's only complimentary as scum. I think that's a dangerous meta read to make. I can see not letting it pocket you and ignoring it but treating it as a major scum tell seems bad.
I called scarlet a diversion because you literally had your vote there less than an hour.
As for death tunneling, if I find someone else scummier I'll move and if I can't build a wagon I will but not just because you asked nicely.
Grape, is there anyone you find scummy but not RE level scummy?
(continuation @ScarletC)
As for the Osie progression, you backed off without ever actually voting him.
Now you are voting him and I'm not sure why, other than what you said previously, but you also said Osie came off as more townie for that interaction with Titus (which strangely enough, I thought too, but I'm also not sure of your reasoning for it?)
About that interaction, that was purely miscommunication between the two of them. Osie took Scarlet Rage's question to mean who ScarletC would kill as scum. Scarlet Rage understood it to be a misunderstanding on Osie's part and explained she was actually asking who ScarletC would vig. When Osie tried to clarify:
To kill in the night with Celeste as a hypothetical night vigilante or as a hypothetical scum member?
Scarlet Rage took it to mean he was asking if he would kill you in the night, and was dismissive since she wasn't asking Osie that question.
At least that's what I took the interaction to be.
I thought they were Townier because of the attitude they seemed to have in said interaction: the issues they had with Titus were said with a certain smugness that I thought would come from the thought of catching scum. There was something weird about it, but I have decided to ignore that feeling.
I spoilered some stuff in the post before I voted osie. Everything in their ISO seems very commentary mode, and that's the mode I think scum would end up in when reading people. There's also no concluding or analysis through most of it, as well as some of it seeming to be going with the flow and it was pinging me so much it deserved the vote.
I think the latter is worse than the former since I only have a vague tonal read with the former, but my feelings about the latter are much more solid. I have also listed some of my issues in my Encyclopedia from earlier in the game.
Thanks for the answer about my misconception concerning the interaction, though it does in no way affect my issues with osie.
UGHHHHH
I THINK I'M SCUMREADING SCARLET BECAUSE OF ISSUES I TAKE WITH HER PROCESS
IF I CONSIDER THAT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SCUMHUNTING THEN SHE'S ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY TOWNIE DESPITE MISREADING PARTS OF THE THREAD AND JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
IN FACT THE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS PART MIGHT ACTUALLY BE MORE TOWNIE THAN NOT
ALSO GRAPE IF YOU ARE TOWN FOR ONE SECOND CONSIDER I AM TOWN AND NOT ACTUALLY DEATH TUNNEL ME, THANK YOU
IT'S MAKING IT HARD TO READ YOU IF YOU'RE TOWN
IF YOU ARE SCUM, I WILL WIN THIS LOL
@ScarletC
I didn't like the Titus progression because I thought Titus' vote and replies to you were justified but you instead expressed suspicion towards her when she voted you. You didn't actually answer her Lynch/Vig/Mason question in the way she asked it. It also feels like you are processing things too quickly and in doing so ignoring questions/posts from others that may not seem significant to you but are to us. While you weren't townreading Titus, you said something along the lines of "I'm focusing on Osie now" so it seemed like it came out of nowhere. I didn't reply to this earlier because whether you can help it or not, it's really difficult to read posts that reply to posts without actually quoting posts or mentioning who you're replying to.
Also, I missed that scum have a day chat, but it was also stated in the sign up thread that there's 3 mafia and 0 neutrals in the games
@Grapefruit21 I think there may be a few issues with your case: you're missing some crucial information RE stated pertaining to me and what she reads me as. If you include said information the progression is much more gradual.
The post that I quoted above is something that to me suggests RE Town. What is highlighted red is them trying to reevaluate me, and also seems to be in a very expressive way which I don't think I'd see from their scum game.
The blue is something I agree with, if I end up in a death tunnel I try to question myself on whether what I am doing is right. (Again, only two of those so very small sample size and the answer was always no so I'm probably not the person to ask about this.) My style tends to weigh up arguments of what alignment they could be so I ask you this: is there any redeeming aspects of RE's ISO?
Reply to RE:
I jumped on a thing. I was wrong about said thing. (Just see the Titus summary in the Encyclopedia Celestia...) The processing of things I agree with: I'm trying to rush but that's why I started doing the Encyclopedia so that I may fix any faults I may have in managing to miss things. Bolded: will try to quote things then. I just really hate multi-quoting (in general) and quoting (on this site).
Also, may I ask why you think jumping to conclusions is a Townie thing?
Isn't basing the read on thread presence somewhat hypocritical concerning your own thread presence?
It annoyed me. I honestly don't know to read it.
Feel free to take a stab at why.
If it's because I have a similar lack of presence then I can definitely say that I know that is the case: but my issue is that if they're reading someone for lack of presence, can that not apply to themselves or others such as myself?
Titus, you've been asking for readlists, but have you given one?
I don't really give readwalls. I can but I generally put out theories. Observe ---> Test ---> Conclude.
For instance, I observed that you either misunderstood or deliberately ignored the three slots I was asking you about. I was asking you to play Lynch Kill Mason with Empoif Vox and Osie, not the whole playbase.
SGrape, Sorting = Drawing Conclusions from what she asks.
#97 - Who was she referring to if not Tammy? Probably should have edited that once I found out she was definitely referring to Tammy.
#199 - Your game was definitely over by the time I mentioned it. I even said it in the same post, that it recently ended... There was a timecode mistake. The tag said you said it on the 20th (after the game had ended) but I checked it with the time and that said 19th (which was before the game ended). So my bad.
#200 - Don't call me sweetie. Behavioral reads > tonal reads every time. EVERY TIME This feels kinda aggressive and I'm going to back off from this because you had a case on me later.
#263 - I actually explained this later on. TMI being Tubba and you being town. Eh I'll get to it eventually, and I vaguely remember that now that you said it.
So you and Grape haven't played together recently then? Wouldn't that suggest it gave time for both your metas to change?
Oh, I think I might've applied the wrong theorem to what Tubba was saying. I was saying it as if he were applying it to his own standards, but he was applying it to how they usually acted. So it was a hybrid meta/volume tell. I must've misunderstood.
Can you elaborate on the reaction thingy? Also, Mr Tillman.
There's something weird about this. Can't put my finger on it, but it's weird.
The last time I saw a drunk post I got pocketed by scum. I hope you're not scum.
I feel like this is showing genuine anger, less directed at RE and more at the inability to determine Marko's alignment and I like that.
Can you explain the bolded please? Aren't those just the questions that could come into your mind, and perhaps RE has a different perspective to you?
RE, I think you're proving his point here.
Also, backing away can come from either alignment: remember that game where I had basically left the thread because DV made me feel so pissed off? It's done for a number of reasons: one of which is to actually get some work done. It doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right either and giving them some time to work then screaming at him again if it's still unsatisfactory is probably the best way to proceed. (Means he doesn't get away with it if he is scum but also means it gives him space if he's Town.)
Also, do you think these two players are comparable in any way, or is this just a general tell to you?
Because I'm my usual self: this is an OK post.
I probably have just as much issue with osie's AtE as you do. Personally, I hate it. It accomplishes nothing but I have seen it from either alignment. I can usually get the feeling from what alignment it comes from, and with this it makes me feel as if they're scum. Experience is no boundary to try and point out issues, even at a basic level.
The part about not pushing is better though. To me it's like (Tubba misquote here) "osie is shading everyone" except RE. This exception I feel comes from a simple reason: scum don't push obvious Town. Scum do go with the flow and keep options open.
The bolded seems a bit in the realms of commentary mode (I'd like you to explain more concerning Tubba) and can people please stop talking about the disappearances? (Like, this is a 2-week game so people are bound to get distracted by things such as real life.)
Grape, is there anyone you find scummy but not RE level scummy?
I thought they were Townier because of the attitude they seemed to have in said interaction: the issues they had with Titus were said with a certain smugness that I thought would come from the thought of catching scum. There was something weird about it, but I have decided to ignore that feeling.
I spoilered some stuff in the post before I voted osie. Everything in their ISO seems very commentary mode, and that's the mode I think scum would end up in when reading people. There's also no concluding or analysis through most of it, as well as some of it seeming to be going with the flow and it was pinging me so much it deserved the vote.
I think the latter is worse than the former since I only have a vague tonal read with the former, but my feelings about the latter are much more solid. I have also listed some of my issues in my Encyclopedia from earlier in the game.
Thanks for the answer about my misconception concerning the interaction, though it does in no way affect my issues with osie.
@Grapefruit21 I think there may be a few issues with your case: you're missing some crucial information RE stated pertaining to me and what she reads me as. If you include said information the progression is much more gradual.
The post that I quoted above is something that to me suggests RE Town. What is highlighted red is them trying to reevaluate me, and also seems to be in a very expressive way which I don't think I'd see from their scum game.
The blue is something I agree with, if I end up in a death tunnel I try to question myself on whether what I am doing is right. (Again, only two of those so very small sample size and the answer was always no so I'm probably not the person to ask about this.) My style tends to weigh up arguments of what alignment they could be so I ask you this: is there any redeeming aspects of RE's ISO?
Reply to RE:
I jumped on a thing. I was wrong about said thing. (Just see the Titus summary in the Encyclopedia Celestia...) The processing of things I agree with: I'm trying to rush but that's why I started doing the Encyclopedia so that I may fix any faults I may have in managing to miss things. Bolded: will try to quote things then. I just really hate multi-quoting (in general) and quoting (on this site).
Also, may I ask why you think jumping to conclusions is a Townie thing?
If it's because I have a similar lack of presence then I can definitely say that I know that is the case: but my issue is that if they're reading someone for lack of presence, can that not apply to themselves or others such as myself?
Ah, my bad. If it's just those three:
Lynch: osie
NK: Vox
Mason: Empoof