A couple points of discussion I would like to open up:
1) 4 x Assassin's Trophy - I want to test the full play set to begin with to see how it goes, as I feel it is too good to play anything less:
a) always going to have a target when hit with cascade.
b) the catch-all modern vindicate card we have always wanted.
Those 2 points aside ramping the opponent is quite the opposite to what jund typically would like to do. This is especially the case when:
a) you are on the draw and early on you are forced to Trophy something on T2 and all of a sudden it's 2 lands vs. 4 lands. Gg.
b) drawing multiples before around turn 4 or 5 feels baaaad. Same point as above.
So then... Is it better to cut down to 3 Trophies and if yes what to replace it with.... A 3rd LotV maybe?
2) 2nd point of discussion, how do we feel about LotV post GRN. Initially, I was thinking going down to 3 trophies and back up to 3 LotV, but I'm expecting an initial spike in GBx midrange and even sultai brews and Death Shadow brews with people wanting to try Trophy. With this in mind how good will LotV be - is it worth going to 3 or even back to the full play set in the 75?
3) If no... Assuming I go down to 3 Trophy, what else would take the slot?
This list is what I run except I do 3 LotV and 3 trophy. Love this iteration and I enjoy this build a ton.
Went 3-1 tonight matchups were
GR aggro 2-0
UW Spirits 2-1
UR Thing in the Ice 1-2 (punted in this matchup hard due to improper sequencing of a ravine activation after a cryptic tapped my creatures down for lethal).
Jeskai Control 2-0 (tracker and ravine closed these games insanely quick with a 2 turn clock)
Will post my decklist later but wanted clarification on the ravine activation with cryptic tapping my stuff down and how to navigate combat in scenarios like that. I starting with "Ok, start combat step?"
*opponent cryptic tapped and I foolishly activated ravine with cryptic on the stack*
Opp- "ok so your ravine is tapped too"
Me- *facepalm*
Not to mention my opponent cast cryptic 3 consecutive turns... Ugh. Didn't see one BBE that matchup.
I forgot who turned me onto Grim Flayer a while back, but it is probably the best card in the deck hands down.
I can also post SB plans I wrote down if anyone is interested in seeing those.
Nissa is so much fun to play. Had her as a one of in a shadow deck iteration I played and using her scry and flip abilities were just gas and never left worried about my next draws.
It would be more constructive to state why you think it doesnt make sense. This way does not really help.
Seeing 3 5/5 bodies that empty your graveyard and give nothing back doesnt seem valuable to me and is counter intuitive seeing as we run tarmogoyf. If you're going to run a delve threat, it makes more sense to run one that will generate value given the mana activation. In this case, Tasigur. For the other 2 slots (in place of your gurmag angler) why not play a less graveyard intensive threat like Tracker? It can outgrow angler and give us card draw. The idea of running a delve creature outside of Tasigur in a GB deck just causes tension with playing Tarmogoyf. This is why it doesn't make sense to run Angler in a sultai build. Not when you have a more efficient creature, Tarmogoyf, in the 75. Hope that makes sense and helps.....
I get your point, and I agree that tracker is very attractive to run. I am currently testing 2 copies main, as I changed my deck a little. Gurmag and Goyf potential interfere, this is true, but tasigur also does. If we cut down on anglers (to like say 2 copies) then we would be on a similar count one would run tasigurs. So the difference is then the extra card to delve away. And this could matter, yeah, but I am not sure about that. Thats up for testing and its in my mind not very obvious.
We do run goyf, but the problem of Sultai is the missing closing speed compared to a Jund deck for example which has access to Bolts and KCommands. Therefore I think the extra attack really matters against uninteractive decks. And in that case gurmag serves as goyf 5 + 6. Even in Jund /Abzan decks, often you just want an extra goyf beyond the 4 you have. After all you can have all the removal spells in the world, you also gotta finish the game somehow.
And like I said, I am not that high on the ability of tasigur. Its a nice grinding tool, but I think Sultai can alread grind pretty well with Snappy, Jace, Trackers or even Azcanta if you wanna run it. I am more interested in the extra closing speed for now. However, given the meta might change, this also might become less relevant of course.
I also wonder if sultai shadow becomes a bit better now. Trophy plus counter magic?
It would be more constructive to state why you think it doesnt make sense. This way does not really help.
Seeing 3 5/5 bodies that empty your graveyard and give nothing back doesnt seem valuable to me and is counter intuitive seeing as we run tarmogoyf. If you're going to run a delve threat, it makes more sense to run one that will generate value given the mana activation. In this case, Tasigur. For the other 2 slots (in place of your gurmag angler) why not play a less graveyard intensive threat like Tracker? It can outgrow angler and give us card draw. The idea of running a delve creature outside of Tasigur in a GB deck just causes tension with playing Tarmogoyf. This is why it doesn't make sense to run Angler in a sultai build. Not when you have a more efficient creature, Tarmogoyf, in the 75. Hope that makes sense and helps.....
I did think about the state of Sultai as well with Trophy and especially Unmoored Ego being printed soon. I think it has to look very streamlined and similar to a typical Jund/Abzan build (where I come from obviously).
You got 20 black sources which is enough for turn 3 LtLH, you got 17 blue sources which is sufficient for turn 4 jace (if you account the cantrips as well it basically adds up to 18 sources, which is enough to have double blue on turn 4) and you got 13 green sources enough to have turn 2 green.
Hello here !
Sorry for my bad english, i am french player and i test for GP Barcelona next week. I am really interested on Tempest753's decklist because i try to brew somethig close. I played a lot Jund during 1 year (1 GP with day 2, 10 side events, 4 locals tournaments (30~50 players) and some pptqs) without any shaman or BBE with 4 bob and 4 liliana of the veil but i think the both are not really impressive right now like before. My idea is too play a Blood Moon Jund deck with tracker and no liliana or bob :
I discussed with a friend who says me blood moon is good right now but ponza is bad against affinity, burn, hollow one and humans so the plan is too play blood moon in a deck which can easily fight aggro decks and who have a better plan than mardu against tron and valakut. I test others decks too (eldrazi, hatebears, bant company) but i have always the feeling for a diversified and based-creatures metagame Jund have a nice powerlevel. If i don't play mardu or any other decks already build it's because i want (i try) to choose a deck which i know play it for a GP (i have 2 byes, maybe it's change something to choose a deck or a list ?), my assumption (i hope it's true) is i am a good jund player and i know modern in general, if it's not true this deck is a bad idea. So let's try to discuss on some details :
-i am not a fan of BBE but probably she very nice in a blood moon shell with a lot of burn spells.
-brutality is good against a lot of decks and can use the dead cards (discard+moon), maybe 3 is too much.
-i am a fan of kolaghan's command, it's the best card of deck but i never see anyone play 4... i don't understand. It helps a lot against control and tron and it's one of the best grindy cards against midrange.
-i think the hazoret plan is just stupid but it's an easy way to kill very faster tron and valakut and steal post board games against control and midrange. If i play BBE i will cut 1 for a huntmaster-like cards (maybe finks or baloth).
-Maybe i can play 1 or 2 other denial cards to help the moon post board but i don't know if it's a good idea.
Thanks for you help. Be critic please, i always try to be realistic in MTG and i brew a lot of different lists so i have no problem to guess this decklist is maybe a totally bad idea. I say again the idea is based on my feelings about metagame and not on logical justifications, it's why i need critics.
I'm all for people trying out different lists in Jund. My only suggestion is maybe go to 3 forests instead of 2 forests and 1 mountain. Primarily because you're playing blood moon and you have enough red sources =)
*Oh, and tracker is amazing and I'm currently running a 3/2 split of Tracker/Flayer (I do like me some Bob CA but I want to try this tracker lady out).
This list is what I run except I do 3 LotV and 3 trophy. Love this iteration and I enjoy this build a ton.
GR aggro 2-0
UW Spirits 2-1
UR Thing in the Ice 1-2 (punted in this matchup hard due to improper sequencing of a ravine activation after a cryptic tapped my creatures down for lethal).
Jeskai Control 2-0 (tracker and ravine closed these games insanely quick with a 2 turn clock)
Will post my decklist later but wanted clarification on the ravine activation with cryptic tapping my stuff down and how to navigate combat in scenarios like that. I starting with "Ok, start combat step?"
*opponent cryptic tapped and I foolishly activated ravine with cryptic on the stack*
Opp- "ok so your ravine is tapped too"
Me- *facepalm*
Not to mention my opponent cast cryptic 3 consecutive turns... Ugh. Didn't see one BBE that matchup.
Nissa is so much fun to play. Had her as a one of in a shadow deck iteration I played and using her scry and flip abilities were just gas and never left worried about my next draws.
I also wonder if sultai shadow becomes a bit better now. Trophy plus counter magic?
Seeing 3 5/5 bodies that empty your graveyard and give nothing back doesnt seem valuable to me and is counter intuitive seeing as we run tarmogoyf. If you're going to run a delve threat, it makes more sense to run one that will generate value given the mana activation. In this case, Tasigur. For the other 2 slots (in place of your gurmag angler) why not play a less graveyard intensive threat like Tracker? It can outgrow angler and give us card draw. The idea of running a delve creature outside of Tasigur in a GB deck just causes tension with playing Tarmogoyf. This is why it doesn't make sense to run Angler in a sultai build. Not when you have a more efficient creature, Tarmogoyf, in the 75. Hope that makes sense and helps.....
-3 Gurmag
+1 Tasigur
+2 Tracker.
Gurmag angler doesnt make sense to run here.
I'm all for people trying out different lists in Jund. My only suggestion is maybe go to 3 forests instead of 2 forests and 1 mountain. Primarily because you're playing blood moon and you have enough red sources =)
*Oh, and tracker is amazing and I'm currently running a 3/2 split of Tracker/Flayer (I do like me some Bob CA but I want to try this tracker lady out).