MTG Salvation

Hm well my playgroup wanted to cut storm support for a few months so we had a few slots open up, but we don't have much support for aggressive blue strategies outside of the UR control/midrange decks packed with burn that you see sometimes. Would you recommend giving it a spin, or is it likely too narrow for a format that uses blue to support mostly just control and artifacts?

This card is making waves all the way from standard to legacy, but I have yet to try it. How good has it been for those who cube with it? is it only playable in aggressive decks, or can you play it in control too for its ability to answer walkers so well?

Oh I've been playing Nissa, steward of elements for that exact reason, as she just kinda fits into most GU decks pretty well. How does Oko stack up to her if you don't mind elaborating a little more on how impactful he is?

Good write up, thanks. I'm testing a lot of these including Wildborn Preserver, but I haven't tested Oko because I thought it looked weak. Apparently I was wrong, but can someone explain to me what makes him so good? What decks does he go into? Just looks clunky and difficult to generate any value from to me, but obviously I'm wrong. Is it just a good-stuff type card that doesn't support any specific archetype but is really good in all of them?

Quote from Metamind »

Winter Orb requires building around, which is not easy to do. The card is bad against mana rocks, mana elves and decks that are have a better board position than you. The card's strength also depends how well your opponent's deck can cope in a low economy game, and how can yours. In a card with this many conditions, it makes sense there will be varying play experiences. I didn't include it in the top 20 for low inclusion rates, frequent incorrect play (which costs games) and low subjective cube importance. I don't like how the card slows down games sometimes. Armageddon is final, Orb leaves hope of recovery so people don't really concede to it.

Winter Orb is one of the single easiest build around card in cube, I don't know what you're talking about. The card is bad vs non-land mana acceleration and aggro decks in the the same way that it's good in decks with them. That's like saying Moat is bad because it makes your Soldier of the Pantheon unable to attack while letting your opponent's Celestial Colonnade fly over: that's literally the entire point of the card, if it didn't accomplish that it would be worthless. Just make sure your deck has creatures that can attack early or mana acceleration and you're golden. I understand differing opinions and why the gameplay Orb creates might be boring, but the first reason you provided doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and if it did Armageddon, Wildfire, Balance and wrath of god would also be bad cards, which we know conclusively is not the case. Winter Orb is just as easy to build around as Grim Monolith, and is just as difficult to make work, which is not difficult at all.

I don't think I'm overselling the Orb at all, it is a colorless Armageddon for half the cost that can also abused with any tap effects. And no, monolith does not go into more decks than orb. Any ramp deck will gladly play either, control will play Monolith while Aggro plays Orb (I should also note that we typically get more aggro decks per draft than control decks in 8-man, as there are more aggro cards spread across more colors), meanwhile all midrange decks can and will want to play Orb but plenty of midrange decks aren't looking to play Monolith since their curve is too low. Both are broken and always end up getting snatched early for a variety of decks, but Orb undoubtedly sees play in more decks. In terms of raw power, I think both are actually pretty similar as they completely alter the pace of (and in turn win) the game, which overall puts Orb a rung above the Monolith. That's my take on the subject, and even if you think Monolith is better than Orb, I can't imagine the 3 consecutive equipments after it are justified above Winter Orb. They're strong but aren't nearly as versatile, and the only one of them that I think even belongs in the same discussion is Skullclamp since it can still excel in red aggro unlike the Sword and Jitte.

I hope that didn't sound angry either, because I promise I'm only arguing out of good faith to change some opinions, but my family members always tell me I sound passive-aggressive over text and I don't want to give that impression to anybody haha

Edit: and yea, we cut smokestack long ago. the card is super cool in theory but it kinda sucks, at least in fast formats.

I think Winer orb is certainly better than monolith. Winter orb is quite literally a 2mana armageddon that can also be abused with opposition/mana rocks/dorks. versatile, all-star card in both aggro, midrange and ramp, meanwhile monolith is great in control, ramp and only some midrange decks. Orb goes in more decks, is a better topdeck, and from personal experience ussually has a higher game impact when used. Can’t imagine it anywhere outside a top 10 for colorless.

Forgot to vote this week, but goddamn is winter orb criminally underrated by you guys. Card is leagues better than geddon and goes into more decks, how did it only land #19/20? Should’ve clocked in above Grim Monolith to steal the #7 spot but below Mox Diamond imo. Card is incredibly broken in any cube.

Other than that specific gripe, list looks solid.

Why is everyone cutting terramorphic expanse/evolving wilds for fabled passage? They're all such great lands in cube, just cut an artifact instead. Don't cut Coalition relic either though lol, something clunky like Lodestone Golem, a Talisman, or even that seventh sword. I think I'm cutting Blast zone for it, as that has only ever been used in UW control, and that's just too narrow for me.

I think this could be cool. Not answering Moat/Opposition/Sneak Attack/Jitte/Memory Jar/PWs/etc makes this worse than both Beast Within and Song of the Dryads, but I play both of those at 360 powered to good effect, so maybe this is worth a test. I am worried however that this falls into the Ravenous Chupacabra category in that there are some matchups where opposing creatures either never come down until its too late for you or they come down too fast for you to get a good target, and in a color like green where card advantage is so scarce, having this dead in your hand G1 instead of a mana dork or a fatty can just be rough. Definitely worth testing if your cube is bigger than mine, but personally, I think I'll pass.

I will always play any sort of 5c land without big downsides. People cutting evolving wilds for this are doing it wrong, just play all the variants they're some of the best lands in cube.

I'll test it. A worse Hexdrinker deserves a test in my book, and I think this card seems like it could be a decent roleplayer in both green aggro and green ramp decks alike.

I love Sun Titan. Such a cool, unique and yet really powerful card. No way I ever cut it.

This card Might be pretty solid. The obvious parallel for this card is Sunkeeper Tarim from HS, which was completely broken and the the best/second best card is HS standard for 2 whole years. The ability to make stats uniform is really easily breakable and in no way symmetrical, but the issue is that this isn't an etb, so I'm not really sure where I stand on this card.