Quote from WizardMN »Quote from SyntheticDreamer »
You actually can't cast Zoetic Cavern from the top of your library with Garruk's Horde either for the same reason - while it's in your library, it's a land card, not a creature card, so you won't be able to cast it from there with that ability since the ability specifies that you can only cast the top card of your library if it's a creature card.A Judge Blog and a Cranial Insertion Article (both fairly old but should still be accurate) disagree with you:
You check the legality of casting it after it has gone onto the stack (the fifth step specifically) and Horde allows you to cast a creature from the top of your library. And since the card is now face down on the stack, and it is a card, it is a creature card since that it what it is on the stack when the game checks to see if you are permitted to cast it.
Quote from SyntheticDreamer »
You actually can't cast Zoetic Cavern from the top of your library with Garruk's Horde either for the same reason - while it's in your library, it's a land card, not a creature card, so you won't be able to cast it from there with that ability since the ability specifies that you can only cast the top card of your library if it's a creature card.
Quote from Reaper9889 »
As another example Nacatl War-Pride has a requirement that cannot be interpreted locally (there are quite a few restrictions that cannot be interpretted locally, like e.g. anything with meanace, but this is the only example I could find for requirements), i.e. to see if a creature satisfies the requirement you must check that globally it is the only one blocking this war-
607.3. If, within a pair of linked abilities, one ability refers to a single object as "the exiled card," "a card exiled with [this card]," or a similar phrase, and the other ability has exiled multiple cards (usually because it was copied), the ability refers to each of the exiled cards. If that ability asks for any information about the exiled card, such as a characteristic or converted mana cost, it gets multiple answers. If these answers are used to determine the value of a variable, the sum of the answers is used. If that ability performs any actions on the exiled card, it performs that action on each exiled card.
Quote from chaikov »Quote from void_nothing »Generally speaking no. Rule 114.5 is "A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself."Since you say 'generally', I would assume there are exceptions… Any example?
(this would profoundly affect my understanding of some rules)
Quote from void_nothing »Generally speaking no. Rule 114.5 is "A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself."
615.1. Some continuous effects are prevention effects. Like replacement effects (see rule 614), prevention effects apply continuously as events happen--they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a damage event that would happen and completely or partially prevent the damage that would be dealt. They act like "shields" around whatever they're affecting.
118.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if their life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their life total; in other words, the player loses that much life. (Players can always pay 0 life.)
"Choosing to do nothing" is not the same same thing as "choosing to do something".
But the unstated premise is that passing priority, (or declining to do something optional in an effect) is not considered a choice for the loop rules.
Also, I don't know of any time when a player could be forced to do something using a spell from a hidden zone.
If the choice involves hidden information, a judge may be needed to determine whether any choice is available that will not continue the loop.
Sorry, guys, but I’m still confused here. I searched and searched but found no rules that say it’s possible to retain priority.
116.3c. If a player has priority when they cast a spell, activate an ability, or take a special action, that player receives priority afterward.
Whenever a player adds an object to the stack, they are assumed to be passing priority unless they explicitly announce that they intend to retain it.
112.1. An ability can be one of three things:
112.1a. An ability can be a characteristic an object has that lets it affect the game. An object's abilities are defined by its rules text or by the effect that created it. Abilities can also be granted to objects by rules or effects. (Effects that grant abilities usually use the words "has," "have," "gains," or "gain.") Abilities generate effects. (See rule 609, "Effects.")
112.1b. An ability can be something that a player has that changes how the game affects the player. A player normally has no abilities unless granted to that player by effects.
112.1c. An ability can be an activated or triggered ability on the stack. This kind of ability is an object. (See section 6, "Spells, Abilities, and Effects.")